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Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/17/2023 12:57:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Kirk appears to be a nice man and a good husband and father. It's also an edited program showing us the tiniest of slivers of his personal life. I know dozens of men that also appear to be nice men and good husbands and fathers. Hooray for all the nice men in the world. Why thank you!

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/17/2023 1:00:36 PM)
You really do have some curmudgeon characteristics, you know that, right? ;)

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/18/2023 11:26:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I think we should have rolled the dice and took Levis. Cousin's isn't leading us to anything. We are also way outclassed in the trenches to be even mentioned as a contender. And look at the defense. Can't find a single area that inspires confidence. Phillips - Tonga - Lowry Hunter - Asamoah - Hicks - Davenport Murphy - Booth? - Evans? - Blackmon? Smith - Bynum (Cine?)

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/18/2023 7:54:08 PM)
The NFL Running Back Problem: Enormous Physical Toll Just To Be Disposed The history of running backs on second contracts is bleak and something we’ve covered before. As of October 2022, 17 running backs signed second contracts since 2016 worth at least 4% of the cap at the year of signing. Only two of them produced more yards per game after signing that contract than before, and only four produced similar value to their precontract production for the teams that signed them. Those four, incidentally, were Dalvin Cook, Alvin Kamara, Derrick Henry, and Nick Chubb. Cook is no longer with the Vikings, and Kamara has disappointed over the last two years. Simply put, it does not make sense from a management perspective for teams to offer long-term contracts to running backs. Teams have an incentive to maximize wins, and they have an artificial constraint on the number of dollars they can spend. Given what their goals are, any money spent on a running back could be better spent on another position. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-running-back-problem-2023/

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 2:38:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Throw darts. Then throw more darts. I’m not going to live forever and I’m tired of kissing my sister. Throwing darts blindfolded is not the way to get it done. Sure you might win a Super Bowl once every hundred years that way. I'll put my support behind slow and steady improvement. Maybe we have the coach we need in KOC and the QB we need in KC already.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 2:39:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Throw darts. Then throw more darts. I’m not going to live forever and I’m tired of kissing my sister. You might only live one more year, maybe two. You may be best served to go with the date you currently have [sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 6:18:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I think we should have rolled the dice and took Levis. Cousin's isn't leading us to anything. We are also way outclassed in the trenches to be even mentioned as a contender. And look at the defense. Can't find a single area that inspires confidence. Phillips - Tonga - Lowry Hunter - Asamoah - Hicks - Davenport Murphy - Booth? - Evans? - Blackmon? Smith - Bynum (Cine?) let's see what brian flores can do with this group...i see 80% of the d's failure last season as donatell.... zimmer played 'prevent' at the end of halves his last two seasons - that was one of his main failures.... i'm starting to believe that osborn will start the season as wr#2 and addison at wr#3 - I also have confidence in nailor - I like what I've seen in him....

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 6:37:35 AM)
. . i don't think we give jefferson or hockenson a new contract this summer...we will extend hunter this season.... one very important aspect of these three players is to retain the right to trade them...we very well could need all that draft capital to start a rebuild by drafting a QB next season....

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 8:05:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . i don't think we give jefferson or hockenson a new contract this summer...we will extend hunter this season.... one very important aspect of these three players is to retain the right to trade them...we very well could need all that draft capital to start a rebuild by drafting a QB next season.... I was wondering why kwesi hasn't extended Hock or JJ because their market value will probably go up by next off season. But you raise a good point. QB is the most important piece and it will take draft capital to aquire a good one.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 9:20:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . i don't think we give jefferson or hockenson a new contract this summer...we will extend hunter this season.... one very important aspect of these three players is to retain the right to trade them...we very well could need all that draft capital to start a rebuild by drafting a QB next season.... I was wondering why kwesi hasn't extended Hock or JJ because their market value will probably go up by next off season. But you raise a good point. QB is the most important piece and it will take draft capital to aquire a good one. With the addition of the gambling money and the continued ridiculous popularity of the NFL, GMs are counting on large increases to the available salary cap in the upcoming years. They seem to have no fear whatsoever in regard to pushing chunks of money into future years, including the practice of NOT locking in restructures early.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 9:22:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Throw darts. Then throw more darts. I’m not going to live forever and I’m tired of kissing my sister. Throwing darts blindfolded is not the way to get it done. Sure you might win a Super Bowl once every hundred years that way. I'll put my support behind slow and steady improvement. Maybe we have the coach we need in KOC and the QB we need in KC already. Blindfolded? You realize that every QB in the league was once a draft prospect right? Even Kirk.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 9:27:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine The NFL Running Back Problem: Enormous Physical Toll Just To Be Disposed The history of running backs on second contracts is bleak and something we’ve covered before. As of October 2022, 17 running backs signed second contracts since 2016 worth at least 4% of the cap at the year of signing. Only two of them produced more yards per game after signing that contract than before, and only four produced similar value to their precontract production for the teams that signed them. Those four, incidentally, were Dalvin Cook, Alvin Kamara, Derrick Henry, and Nick Chubb. Cook is no longer with the Vikings, and Kamara has disappointed over the last two years. Simply put, it does not make sense from a management perspective for teams to offer long-term contracts to running backs. Teams have an incentive to maximize wins, and they have an artificial constraint on the number of dollars they can spend. Given what their goals are, any money spent on a running back could be better spent on another position. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-running-back-problem-2023/ Available free agent running backs right now: Zeke Elliot Dalvin Cook Leonard Fournette Kareem Hunt J.D. McKissic Mark Ingram Rex Burkhead And if a GM is thinking about signing a RB for more than one season, here's some RBs that are scheduled to be free agents at the end of 2023: Derrick Henry Josh Jacobs Tony Pollard Saquon Barkley Austin Ekeler Cordarrelle Patterson Jonathan Taylor D'andre Swift JK Dobbins And possibly every guy that's a free agent right now

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 9:50:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I think we should have rolled the dice and took Levis. Cousin's isn't leading us to anything. We are also way outclassed in the trenches to be even mentioned as a contender. And look at the defense. Can't find a single area that inspires confidence. Phillips - Tonga - Lowry Hunter - Asamoah - Hicks - Davenport Murphy - Booth? - Evans? - Blackmon? Smith - Bynum (Cine?) let's see what brian flores can do with this group...i see 80% of the d's failure last season as donatell.... zimmer played 'prevent' at the end of halves his last two seasons - that was one of his main failures.... i'm starting to believe that osborn will start the season as wr#2 and addison at wr#3 - I also have confidence in nailor - I like what I've seen in him.... The defensive coaching has been bad for what, 3-4 years? 2018-2019 were statistically good defenses but Zimmer’s knuclebrained decisions, defensive softening, and talent bleed-off had already begun. A lot of the ‘bad coaching’ was a DC scrambling to compensate for, hide, cover up weaknesses in talent/performance. A lot of it was just bad coaching. It’s a chicken/egg thing. Spielman and Kwesi have doomed the defense as much as the coaching. It’s anybody’s guess if Flores can do more with less, because until proven otherwise, the defense is worse on paper or at least no better from a talent standpoint, than last year’s really bad defense. (I think we will be much better based on the overall indefinable gestalt of the thing … the individual pieces IMO don’t offer that projection)

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 9:59:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I think we should have rolled the dice and took Levis. Cousin's isn't leading us to anything. We are also way outclassed in the trenches to be even mentioned as a contender. And look at the defense. Can't find a single area that inspires confidence. Phillips - Tonga - Lowry Hunter - Asamoah - Hicks - Davenport Murphy - Booth? - Evans? - Blackmon? Smith - Bynum (Cine?) let's see what brian flores can do with this group...i see 80% of the d's failure last season as donatell.... zimmer played 'prevent' at the end of halves his last two seasons - that was one of his main failures.... i'm starting to believe that osborn will start the season as wr#2 and addison at wr#3 - I also have confidence in nailor - I like what I've seen in him.... The defensive coaching has been bad for what, 3-4 years? 2018-2019 were statistically good defenses but Zimmer’s knuclebrained decisions, defensive softening, and talent bleed-off had already begun. A lot of the ‘bad coaching’ was a DC scrambling to compensate for, hide, cover up weaknesses in talent/performance. A lot of it was just bad coaching. It’s a chicken/egg thing. Spielman and Kwesi have doomed the defense as much as the coaching. It’s anybody’s guess if Flores can do more with less, because until proven otherwise, the defense is worse on paper or at least no better from a talent standpoint, than last year’s really bad defense. (I think we will be much better based on the overall indefinable gestalt of the thing … the individual pieces IMO don’t offer that projection) One thing that gives me hope for the defense in 2023 is that in 2022 the Vikings were ranked 11th best in points allowed in the 4th quarter. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opp-4th-quarter-points-per-game I interpret this as once the game was on the line and there was finally some urgency in the strategy, the defense was finally being called correctly. I'm optimistic to see what the defense can accomplish if the coaches BEGIN the game with some urgency and take a few risks.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 10:29:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I think we should have rolled the dice and took Levis. Cousin's isn't leading us to anything. We are also way outclassed in the trenches to be even mentioned as a contender. And look at the defense. Can't find a single area that inspires confidence. Phillips - Tonga - Lowry Hunter - Asamoah - Hicks - Davenport Murphy - Booth? - Evans? - Blackmon? Smith - Bynum (Cine?) let's see what brian flores can do with this group...i see 80% of the d's failure last season as donatell.... zimmer played 'prevent' at the end of halves his last two seasons - that was one of his main failures.... i'm starting to believe that osborn will start the season as wr#2 and addison at wr#3 - I also have confidence in nailor - I like what I've seen in him.... Guess in addition to saying there isn't a single area that inspires confidence, there isn't even a single player that offensive coordinators will worry about. Hunter as a 4-3 DE would be, but he is miscast. Flores will have to be a miracle worker, and the D will need a lot of lucky bounces at the right time. The larger point is, based on the D, this is the time to acquire assets (draft picks, salary cap, etc). Kwesi cleaned much of the house on D this year, but that is still just the first easy step. Also Cine, Booth, Ingram, Addison, and Blackmon need to produce.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 11:09:07 AM)
I didn't realize last year's Vikings'defense was ranked #11 in points against. That is how I rank defenses, not by yardage given up. That defense was better than I thought, and no small part of the reason for the 4th quarter comebacks. PP was a great film nut, Zed and Hunter brought heat, Smith was solid, and various others contributed. I think there is a chance the defense is much better, but PPs film study will be missed, as well as some of the heat Zed brought .

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 11:19:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I didn't realize last year's Vikings'defense was ranked #11 in points against. That is how I rank defenses, not by yardage given up. That defense was better than I thought, and no small part of the reason for the 4th quarter comebacks. PP was a great film nut, Zed and Hunter brought heat, Smith was solid, and various others contributed. I think there is a chance the defense is much better, but PPs film study will be missed, as well as some of the heat Zed brought . In the 4th quarter.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 11:23:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I didn't realize last year's Vikings'defense was ranked #11 in points against. That is how I rank defenses, not by yardage given up. That defense was better than I thought, and no small part of the reason for the 4th quarter comebacks. PP was a great film nut, Zed and Hunter brought heat, Smith was solid, and various others contributed. I think there is a chance the defense is much better, but PPs film study will be missed, as well as some of the heat Zed brought . That was in the 4th Quarter Marty.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 11:47:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I think we should have rolled the dice and took Levis. Cousin's isn't leading us to anything. We are also way outclassed in the trenches to be even mentioned as a contender. And look at the defense. Can't find a single area that inspires confidence. Phillips - Tonga - Lowry Hunter - Asamoah - Hicks - Davenport Murphy - Booth? - Evans? - Blackmon? Smith - Bynum (Cine?) let's see what brian flores can do with this group...i see 80% of the d's failure last season as donatell.... zimmer played 'prevent' at the end of halves his last two seasons - that was one of his main failures.... i'm starting to believe that osborn will start the season as wr#2 and addison at wr#3 - I also have confidence in nailor - I like what I've seen in him.... The defensive coaching has been bad for what, 3-4 years? 2018-2019 were statistically good defenses but Zimmer’s knuclebrained decisions, defensive softening, and talent bleed-off had already begun. A lot of the ‘bad coaching’ was a DC scrambling to compensate for, hide, cover up weaknesses in talent/performance. A lot of it was just bad coaching. It’s a chicken/egg thing. Spielman and Kwesi have doomed the defense as much as the coaching. It’s anybody’s guess if Flores can do more with less, because until proven otherwise, the defense is worse on paper or at least no better from a talent standpoint, than last year’s really bad defense. (I think we will be much better based on the overall indefinable gestalt of the thing … the individual pieces IMO don’t offer that projection) One thing that gives me hope for the defense in 2023 is that in 2022 the Vikings were ranked 11th best in points allowed in the 4th quarter. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opp-4th-quarter-points-per-game I interpret this as once the game was on the line and there was finally some urgency in the strategy, the defense was finally being called correctly. I'm optimistic to see what the defense can accomplish if the coaches BEGIN the game with some urgency and take a few risks. I think our 4th quarters last season are hard to articulate statistically. 4th quarters were almost mini games different from the other three quarters. Not sure its true but it seemed like our offense was in scramble / hit the gas mode a lot more than the opposing team which was in keep away / protect mode (padding our def stats). Nobody has ever dug themselves out of so many holes in one season than the 2022 Vikings. Which is a beautiful thing. But those holes have to be dug first – the defense was clearly the main culprit ... the offense also limped along plenty in between volcanic eruptions. We also had some big defensive stands and turnovers at the end of games after looking pitiful for three and half quarters. Hard to draw conclusions but the defensive eyeball test was no bueno.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 11:54:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I didn't realize last year's Vikings'defense was ranked #11 in points against. That is how I rank defenses, not by yardage given up. That defense was better than I thought, and no small part of the reason for the 4th quarter comebacks. PP was a great film nut, Zed and Hunter brought heat, Smith was solid, and various others contributed. I think there is a chance the defense is much better, but PPs film study will be missed, as well as some of the heat Zed brought . Don't forget about PPs time in the hybaric chamber and his senior discount at Kroger's grocery stores. Flores has a lot of obstacles to overcome.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 12:16:14 PM)
Spielman and Kwesi have doomed the defense as much as the coaching. Spot on. Both regimes have failed miserably drafting CB's (high picks too) and have completely neglected the dline. SF and Phil (class of the NFC) address the trenches early and often every year in the draft. Meanwhile we haven't spent an early pick on the dline in over a decade (Sharif Floyd 2012). Both regimes seem way more interested in the "sexy" pick vs building the team from the inside out.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 1:28:48 PM)
Nobody has ever dug themselves out of so many holes in one season than the 2022 Vikings. Which is a beautiful thing. But those holes have to be dug first – the defense was clearly the main culprit ... the offense also limped along plenty in between volcanic eruptions. Purple Daily did the research and I listened to the podcast a couple days ago so forgive me if my memory is off. If I'm wrong, i'm not making it up and it should be pretty accurate. They said we were 8th in first quarter offense and 1st in the fourth. Our second and third though were mid 20's. Their conclusion based on quotes from the QB doc from Cousins and KOC: 1. He is very good at scripted plays 2. When it goes off script he's crap and balls up so he 'doesn't cost the team' 3. When he's down in the 4th he has to say 'screw it' and finally loosens up

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 1:45:58 PM)
Based on a lot of things said here today, a lot of good things, a "little bit" of coaching could fix a lot of issues.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 1:55:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser Nobody has ever dug themselves out of so many holes in one season than the 2022 Vikings. Which is a beautiful thing. But those holes have to be dug first – the defense was clearly the main culprit ... the offense also limped along plenty in between volcanic eruptions. Purple Daily did the research and I listened to the podcast a couple days ago so forgive me if my memory is off. If I'm wrong, i'm not making it up and it should be pretty accurate. They said we were 8th in first quarter offense and 1st in the fourth. Our second and third though were mid 20's. Their conclusion based on quotes from the QB doc from Cousins and KOC: 1. He is very good at scripted plays 2. When it goes off script he's crap and balls up so he 'doesn't cost the team' 3. When he's down in the 4th he has to say 'screw it' and finally loosens up Offensively, the 3rd quarter scoring was bad. We ended up 22nd, but for much of the season we were horrid. https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/the-2022-minnesota-vikings-have-a-third-quarter-problem Week 1 vs. GB: Up 17 at halftime, lost third quarter 7-3 Week 2 at PHI: Down 17 at halftime, tied third quarter 0-0 Week 3 vs. DET: Tied at halftime, lost third quarter 10-0 Week 4 at NO: Up 6 at halftime, lost third quarter 7-3 Week 5 vs. CHI: Up 11 at halftime, lost third quarter 9-0 Week 6 at MIA: Up 7 at halftime, tied third quarter 0-0 Week 8 vs. ARI: Up 4 at halftime, won third quarter 14-13 Week 9 at WAS: Up 4 at halftime, lost third quarter 7-0 Excluding ARI, that's six points in eight games.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/19/2023 2:40:48 PM)
2 TD passes, 13 sacks, and a 77.2 passer rating in the 3rd quarter last season. No killer instinct. Just “doesn’t want to screw up”. https://www.nfl.com/players/kirk-cousins/stats/situational/

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