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David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 11:32:37 AM)

Kurt Warner gives a fair take. A few things: Jefferson was double-teamed not triple-teamed. The defender was not in Kirk's face. Warner says either take the shot to a double-teamed Jefferson right away or go to your next read (which would have been KJ about to break free across the middle).

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615019673908842498%7Ctwgr%5E5f09d9be403c611f8416f4aba5091dd7fc97c963%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvikingsterritory.com%2F2023%2Fgeneral-news%2Fhall-of-famer-defends-kirk



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 11:34:48 AM)

I will add that if Kirk was troubled by the rush and didn't think anyone was open past the sticks, the situation of 4th-and-season MANDATED he try and slip the pressure to buy more time.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 11:45:23 AM)

I look at like this....We weren't beating Philly with our defense if we couldn't stop NYG with our defense......that is how much the loss to NYG was on Kirk (IMO); so it was hard for me to dwell on that one play.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 12:04:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I look at like this....We weren't beating Philly with our defense if we couldn't stop NYG with our defense......that is how much the loss to NYG was on Kirk (IMO); so it was hard for me to dwell on that one play.

He should have chucked it down field, there's no successful argument against it.

And for many that cements it in their brains there is no way Kirk can get us to a SB let alone win one.

I disagree.

But whatever ...



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 12:21:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I look at like this....We weren't beating Philly with our defense if we couldn't stop NYG with our defense......that is how much the loss to NYG was on Kirk (IMO); so it was hard for me to dwell on that one play.


There's a limit around here in how many times you can bring up our defense as the problem. You've exceeded it. Stop.



Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 12:34:55 PM)

There is a limit to the number of times you can say KFC is blameless for his fourth down choke job..

You have exceeded it.. just stop…

[;)]



Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 12:46:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Kurt Warner gives a fair take. A few things: Jefferson was double-teamed not triple-teamed. The defender was not in Kirk's face. Warner says either take the shot to a double-teamed Jefferson right away or go to your next read (which would have been KJ about to break free across the middle).

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615019673908842498%7Ctwgr%5E5f09d9be403c611f8416f4aba5091dd7fc97c963%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvikingsterritory.com%2F2023%2Fgeneral-news%2Fhall-of-famer-defends-kirk


Yes I’ve seen the Warner analysis too. Here’s my problem with it. Warner stops the video countless times at a spot where it looks like Cousins had a nice tidy pocket. Warner is pointing out everything downfield blah blah, but when you then continue the video, within a split second a DT is blowing past the blocker almost unimpeded, and he reaches Cousins just as he releases the ball.

Warner never addresses this.

So go ahead laugh at me for disagreeing with the HOF qb but I think he’s wrong. He’s so busy analyzing the Xs and Os that he missed effect the pressure had, which rendered most of his analysis moot.

The only valid criticism is MAYBE a mobile QB ducks the rush, buys himself and extra second or two. But that’s it.



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 1:15:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I look at like this....We weren't beating Philly with our defense if we couldn't stop NYG with our defense......that is how much the loss to NYG was on Kirk (IMO); so it was hard for me to dwell on that one play.

[sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 1:17:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Kurt Warner gives a fair take. A few things: Jefferson was double-teamed not triple-teamed. The defender was not in Kirk's face. Warner says either take the shot to a double-teamed Jefferson right away or go to your next read (which would have been KJ about to break free across the middle).

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615019673908842498%7Ctwgr%5E5f09d9be403c611f8416f4aba5091dd7fc97c963%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvikingsterritory.com%2F2023%2Fgeneral-news%2Fhall-of-famer-defends-kirk


Yes I’ve seen the Warner analysis too. Here’s my problem with it. Warner stops the video countless times at a spot where it looks like Cousins had a nice tidy pocket. Warner is pointing out everything downfield blah blah, but when you then continue the video, within a split second a DT is blowing past the blocker almost unimpeded, and he reaches Cousins just as he releases the ball.

Warner never addresses this.

So go ahead laugh at me for disagreeing with the HOF qb but I think he’s wrong. He’s so busy analyzing the Xs and Os that he missed effect the pressure had, which rendered most of his analysis moot.

The only valid criticism is MAYBE a mobile QB ducks the rush, buys himself and extra second or two. But that’s it.

[sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 1:23:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

KGDABOM, thanks for the interview link, Kirk is very likeable.

[sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 1:23:50 PM)

Warner repeatedly said because Hock was chipping, Hock is removed from consideration. His premise was peak at Jefferson, and if it's a no-go then throw it to Osborn. And he acknowledged the pass rush (once).

Checkdown Charlie on 4th and 8 deserved to be vilified nationally the next morning. But sure, ignore the season-ending choke job on the last play. Instead, focus on Cousins' illustrious career: one playoff win in 11 years.

The talking heads were right, the only thing Cousins does at an All-Pro level is contracts.



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 1:26:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Asamoah believes the Vikings are a Super Bowl contender:

https://share.newsbreak.com/4n5h82rx

I agree with him.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 1:32:10 PM)

From the get-go, Warner kept harping about why Hock wasn't an option. If anything, he was generous by not saying with the season on the line it was stupid to throw to Hock. Maybe there is a bit of that QB fraternity thing going on.



ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 2:20:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Warner repeatedly said because Hock was chipping, Hock is removed from consideration. His premise was peak at Jefferson, and if it's a no-go then throw it to Osborn. And he acknowledged the pass rush (once).

Checkdown Charlie on 4th and 8 deserved to be vilified nationally the next morning. But sure, ignore the season-ending choke job on the last play. Instead, focus on Cousins' illustrious career: one playoff win in 11 years.

The talking heads were right, the only thing Cousins does at an All-Pro level is contracts.


cousins played that down like it was 1st and 10....



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 2:39:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Warner repeatedly said because Hock was chipping, Hock is removed from consideration. His premise was peak at Jefferson, and if it's a no-go then throw it to Osborn. And he acknowledged the pass rush (once).

Checkdown Charlie on 4th and 8 deserved to be vilified nationally the next morning. But sure, ignore the season-ending choke job on the last play. Instead, focus on Cousins' illustrious career: one playoff win in 11 years.

The talking heads were right, the only thing Cousins does at an All-Pro level is contracts.


cousins played that down like it was 1st and 10....


He played it like it was week two of the regular season, 1st quarter, up 10-0.

Or like a nationally televised night game.

Ultimately, he played it like he typically does, in a pressure-laden, brain freeze stupor. For that play, give me Case Keenum.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 2:44:20 PM)

Playoffs... 10 seconds left... CASE DIDN'T CHECK DOWN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJzpoj_NxqQ



Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 4:03:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Playoffs... 10 seconds left... CASE DIDN'T CHECK DOWN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJzpoj_NxqQ


Yes isn’t it great the throws a qb can make when there’s nobody within 3 yards of him and he can see the whole field, and isn’t about to get smacked?



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 7:09:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Kurt Warner gives a fair take. A few things: Jefferson was double-teamed not triple-teamed. The defender was not in Kirk's face. Warner says either take the shot to a double-teamed Jefferson right away or go to your next read (which would have been KJ about to break free across the middle).

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615019673908842498%7Ctwgr%5E5f09d9be403c611f8416f4aba5091dd7fc97c963%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvikingsterritory.com%2F2023%2Fgeneral-news%2Fhall-of-famer-defends-kirk


Yes I’ve seen the Warner analysis too. Here’s my problem with it. Warner stops the video countless times at a spot where it looks like Cousins had a nice tidy pocket. Warner is pointing out everything downfield blah blah, but when you then continue the video, within a split second a DT is blowing past the blocker almost unimpeded, and he reaches Cousins just as he releases the ball.

Warner never addresses this.

So go ahead laugh at me for disagreeing with the HOF qb but I think he’s wrong. He’s so busy analyzing the Xs and Os that he missed effect the pressure had, which rendered most of his analysis moot.

The only valid criticism is MAYBE a mobile QB ducks the rush, buys himself and extra second or two. But that’s it.

nm



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 7:16:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Playoffs... 10 seconds left... CASE DIDN'T CHECK DOWN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJzpoj_NxqQ


Yes isn’t it great the throws a qb can make when there’s nobody within 3 yards of him and he can see the whole field, and isn’t about to get smacked?



Cousins being a statue is not my circus, not my monkey.

And yes it was great. A walk-off 61 yard game winner.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 7:24:29 PM)

But I'll tell you what Warner does miss. He points out (around the 40 sec. mark) that by having Hockensen chip the DE, it...

...doesn't matter because it already takes Hockensen out of the play as a viable option. According to Warner.

Hock was a never option.

Edit - full disclosure, italics are from Tom's nm edit. It was a good post, although it is more likely the post-catch situation would have a safety salivating that this game is over vs being dragged 5 yards.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 7:30:17 PM)

First playoff game comparo:

JJ, 6-47-0

Straight Cash Homey, 10-148-2



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/9/2023 11:11:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

But I'll tell you what Warner does miss. He points out (around the 40 sec. mark) that by having Hockensen chip the DE, it...

...doesn't matter because it already takes Hockensen out of the play as a viable option. According to Warner.

Hock was a never option.

Edit - full disclosure, italics are from Tom's nm edit. It was a good post, although it is more likely the post-catch situation would have a safety salivating that this game is over vs being dragged 5 yards.

Never an option / worst option ... not sure but certainly not a viable option without somebody blowing coverage. Which didn't happen.

I guess what I was trying to say was, it would have been nice for a decent pass to Hockensen at the very least (instead of making him stop) to force the defender to make a good tackle instead of an easy one. Hockensen is no bruiser but he's not 'Fetal Position After the Catch' Rudolph either.

Cousins set his feet and made a bad decision first, stepped into a bad throw second, and got smacked third.



twinsfan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/10/2023 12:18:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Kurt Warner gives a fair take. A few things: Jefferson was double-teamed not triple-teamed. The defender was not in Kirk's face. Warner says either take the shot to a double-teamed Jefferson right away or go to your next read (which would have been KJ about to break free across the middle).

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615019673908842498%7Ctwgr%5E5f09d9be403c611f8416f4aba5091dd7fc97c963%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvikingsterritory.com%2F2023%2Fgeneral-news%2Fhall-of-famer-defends-kirk


Yes I’ve seen the Warner analysis too. Here’s my problem with it. Warner stops the video countless times at a spot where it looks like Cousins had a nice tidy pocket. Warner is pointing out everything downfield blah blah, but when you then continue the video, within a split second a DT is blowing past the blocker almost unimpeded, and he reaches Cousins just as he releases the ball.

Warner never addresses this.

So go ahead laugh at me for disagreeing with the HOF qb but I think he’s wrong. He’s so busy analyzing the Xs and Os that he missed effect the pressure had, which rendered most of his analysis moot.

The only valid criticism is MAYBE a mobile QB ducks the rush, buys himself and extra second or two. But that’s it.

You have Sweeney Syndrome. You think you know more than a former NFL quarterback.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/10/2023 8:17:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Kurt Warner gives a fair take. A few things: Jefferson was double-teamed not triple-teamed. The defender was not in Kirk's face. Warner says either take the shot to a double-teamed Jefferson right away or go to your next read (which would have been KJ about to break free across the middle).

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615019673908842498%7Ctwgr%5E5f09d9be403c611f8416f4aba5091dd7fc97c963%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvikingsterritory.com%2F2023%2Fgeneral-news%2Fhall-of-famer-defends-kirk


Yes I’ve seen the Warner analysis too. Here’s my problem with it. Warner stops the video countless times at a spot where it looks like Cousins had a nice tidy pocket. Warner is pointing out everything downfield blah blah, but when you then continue the video, within a split second a DT is blowing past the blocker almost unimpeded, and he reaches Cousins just as he releases the ball.

Warner never addresses this.

So go ahead laugh at me for disagreeing with the HOF qb but I think he’s wrong. He’s so busy analyzing the Xs and Os that he missed effect the pressure had, which rendered most of his analysis moot.

The only valid criticism is MAYBE a mobile QB ducks the rush, buys himself and extra second or two. But that’s it.

You have Sweeney Syndrome. You think you know more than a former NFL quarterback.

You’re welcome to view former qb commentary as scripture. It’s not.

Also, I don’t agree with Karl’s post but he did quantify it against Warner’s HOF point of view.

Warner is insightful, yes. He is also just a fan at this point giving his insighful opinion, trying to guess what’s happening in a play … he’s not in the huddle either.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/10/2023 8:46:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Kurt Warner gives a fair take. A few things: Jefferson was double-teamed not triple-teamed. The defender was not in Kirk's face. Warner says either take the shot to a double-teamed Jefferson right away or go to your next read (which would have been KJ about to break free across the middle).

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615019673908842498%7Ctwgr%5E5f09d9be403c611f8416f4aba5091dd7fc97c963%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvikingsterritory.com%2F2023%2Fgeneral-news%2Fhall-of-famer-defends-kirk


Yes I’ve seen the Warner analysis too. Here’s my problem with it. Warner stops the video countless times at a spot where it looks like Cousins had a nice tidy pocket. Warner is pointing out everything downfield blah blah, but when you then continue the video, within a split second a DT is blowing past the blocker almost unimpeded, and he reaches Cousins just as he releases the ball.

Warner never addresses this.

So go ahead laugh at me for disagreeing with the HOF qb but I think he’s wrong. He’s so busy analyzing the Xs and Os that he missed effect the pressure had, which rendered most of his analysis moot.

The only valid criticism is MAYBE a mobile QB ducks the rush, buys himself and extra second or two. But that’s it.

You have Sweeney Syndrome. You think you know more than a former NFL quarterback.

Funny.

And don't think you know more than a coach, either



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