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Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 11:25:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Some day we’ll be a team that prepares, executes, and finishes. Doesn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Barely hanging on here. Not sure what will be left after we start 0-2 getting killed by the Eagles. Since we played the Eagles week 2 last year ... will be interesting to see if our our 'offseason plan' has gained any ground on the big boys. And by big boys I mean the tough teams from start to finish. Not that offseason plans are all that. It doesn't mean that a team can't start slow and end strong or that a good team can't fizzle. Course corrections and adjustments are more important than offseason and game plans. IMO adding Hockensen last year in season was about the only course correction that happened. One small answer is standing out there begging for an opportunity. Not sure Risner's any good ... something is turning people off. But if we're going to audition felony RBs, the least we can do is give him a non-guaranteed shot. Unfortunately we've turned Hock into a 3 yard and a cloud of dust receiving TE. We spent a lot of capital for a 'move' TE that is just really another check-down option for Cousins. As if he really needs that. Kwesi? Tell me I'm wrong.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 11:30:35 AM)
I can't think of anything about Thursday's game that will surprise me - now that we got that def signaling issues out in the open - least of all, that our offense is very successful. Ok, I suppose it will be a surprise if we have all the time we need to throw a downfield pass. Damn! I would like to say this without getting trashed by multiple posts, that, I believe Kirk will see things based on last year that he can capitalize on.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 11:38:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J I can't think of anything about Thursday's game that will surprise me - now that we got that def signaling issues out in the open - least of all, that our offense is very successful. Ok, I suppose it will be a surprise if we have all the time we need to throw a downfield pass. Damn! I would like to say this without getting trashed by multiple posts, that, I believe Kirk will see things based on last year that he can capitalize on. I just hope Kirk doesn't think Darius Slay is a Vking like he did last year.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 12:10:25 PM)
“I just remember Bake came in the locker room literally at halftime and said, ‘I got it. We got all these signals,’” White began. “We’re in there talking as an offense and he’s like, ‘I know all these signals. If they do this, they’re going into Cover-2. If they do this, they’re going into Cover-3. Every time I alert this and they do this signal, they’re dropping back to this.’ And I’m like, ‘Wow, that’s amazing.’ … I was just listening to him and we were listening to him and we just kind of understood.” Not to be outdone, Alexander Mattison, the Vikings starting RB said "Our savvy vet... this is his 12th year you know, wasn't about to copy Baker. He took the opposite approach and decided to literally be confused. And it worked!"

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 12:18:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen My concerns for this season in priority order: - Overall team direction, purpose, etc in the outyears. - The right GM and HC. - Drafts. - Contracts, cap, etc. - Free agency. - Bad injuries, to include repeated concussions. - Outcome of the games. - Pivotal plays in a game. Sounds more like a big picture view. With future indicators. As if the season is gone already. My approach is more pragmatic and still in ‘the now.’ I’m trying to decide on which limb to sacrifice to the ferocious talon of the eagle, so I can scurry away and live for game 3. It is. It has, or more accurately since the offseason have never thought this season's team would be competitive. The best feasible outcome is this coming offseason we finally surface after being underwater since Spielman's last two years. Then the real work begins. Any of us could have cut the expensive deadwood, signed the likes of Phillips and Davenport, and created void years to stash $40 million.

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 2:37:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Some day we’ll be a team that prepares, executes, and finishes. Doesn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Barely hanging on here. Not sure what will be left after we start 0-2 getting killed by the Eagles. Since we played the Eagles week 2 last year ... will be interesting to see if our our 'offseason plan' has gained any ground on the big boys. And by big boys I mean the tough teams from start to finish. Not that offseason plans are all that. It doesn't mean that a team can't start slow and end strong or that a good team can't fizzle. Course corrections and adjustments are more important than offseason and game plans. IMO adding Hockensen last year in season was about the only course correction that happened. One small answer is standing out there begging for an opportunity. Not sure Risner's any good ... something is turning people off. But if we're going to audition felony RBs, the least we can do is give him a non-guaranteed shot. Unfortunately we've turned Hock into a 3 yard and a cloud of dust receiving TE. We spent a lot of capital for a 'move' TE that is just really another check-down option for Cousins. As if he really needs that. Kwesi? Tell me I'm wrong. Vikes had 3rd highest yards per play in week 1. The offense can move the ball. Just not consistently. And they turn it over.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 2:43:06 PM)
The TO's were killer but we still have way too many 3 and outs. That can't sustain if we want to be successful.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 3:23:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Some day we’ll be a team that prepares, executes, and finishes. Doesn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Barely hanging on here. Not sure what will be left after we start 0-2 getting killed by the Eagles. Since we played the Eagles week 2 last year ... will be interesting to see if our our 'offseason plan' has gained any ground on the big boys. And by big boys I mean the tough teams from start to finish. Not that offseason plans are all that. It doesn't mean that a team can't start slow and end strong or that a good team can't fizzle. Course corrections and adjustments are more important than offseason and game plans. IMO adding Hockensen last year in season was about the only course correction that happened. One small answer is standing out there begging for an opportunity. Not sure Risner's any good ... something is turning people off. But if we're going to audition felony RBs, the least we can do is give him a non-guaranteed shot. Unfortunately we've turned Hock into a 3 yard and a cloud of dust receiving TE. We spent a lot of capital for a 'move' TE that is just really another check-down option for Cousins. As if he really needs that. Kwesi? Tell me I'm wrong. Vikes had 3rd highest yards per play in week 1. The offense can move the ball. Just not consistently. And they turn it over. I guess Jefferson's 16.7 Y/R on 9 catches more than made up for Hock's 4.4 Y/R on his 8. We're definitely capable of of some huge yardage plays. But we were really "feast or famine" on Sunday.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 3:34:50 PM)
Bradbury is out and Darrisaw is questionable. Damn

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 3:46:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Some day we’ll be a team that prepares, executes, and finishes. Doesn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Barely hanging on here. Not sure what will be left after we start 0-2 getting killed by the Eagles. Since we played the Eagles week 2 last year ... will be interesting to see if our our 'offseason plan' has gained any ground on the big boys. And by big boys I mean the tough teams from start to finish. Not that offseason plans are all that. It doesn't mean that a team can't start slow and end strong or that a good team can't fizzle. Course corrections and adjustments are more important than offseason and game plans. IMO adding Hockensen last year in season was about the only course correction that happened. One small answer is standing out there begging for an opportunity. Not sure Risner's any good ... something is turning people off. But if we're going to audition felony RBs, the least we can do is give him a non-guaranteed shot. Unfortunately we've turned Hock into a 3 yard and a cloud of dust receiving TE. We spent a lot of capital for a 'move' TE that is just really another check-down option for Cousins. As if he really needs that. Kwesi? Tell me I'm wrong. It's on the coach to use him correctly. He's very capable of stretching the field.

Nate -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 3:50:42 PM)
That was a hard game to get through. The same end-of-half, beginning of 2nd half, end of game struggles as always. Considering the Vikes employ 33 folks in the personnel dept for offense alone, it's hard to figure why we still have the same 3 horrible IOLs in there with no competition brought in whatsoever. Massive mistake. Classic top-heavy, low production, empire building at Vikings HQ. I don't like that we have multiple highly paid people in low impact positions (TE, Safety), that we kept low performers in place (IOL, K, IDL) with little to no competition and are more known for paying top dollar on contracts and trades rather than getting local discounts and steals. KAM needs to head back to hedge funds and shorting stock or get better fast. If we get buried the next few games, with little competitive resistance, I'm in on the crash for Caleb movement. Though I hate wasted seasons I can't stand the thought of running it back with this core again. I can suffer a horribad season if it means we get some top tier talent for once and also a QBOTF. I'm in Colorado these days, and have been watching the Buffs with interest for the first time in decades. Shadeur is playing well, I'll get to see him up close when I go to the CU/CSU game this weekend. He tends to hold the ball to long and will take some bad sacks, but the kid is smart, takes care of the ball and is a pretty accurate passer from what I can tell. I think he should stay in college next year and get 2 solid years in at CU which would help him work out the kinks. Either way, he comes from a HOF Dad/coach and while not Deion athletic he's still a major prospect in the making. Good times in CO, too bad Minnesota can't turn the Vikes around in a year via the transfer portal, but a good draft or two will do us wonders (come on KAM!!).

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 3:52:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser The TO's were killer but we still have way too many 3 and outs. That can't sustain if we want to be successful. I agree. The 3 and outs not only obviously fail to result in points but they also effect field position and time of possession. Wears your defense down to constantly being sent back out on the field after you just got off of it. I really didn't like the play calling in the game which I think lead to some of those 3 and outs. Hope that improves this Thursday. Tampa's defense is good but the Eagles' defense is even better so they have their work cut out for them to limit the 3 and outs.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 3:53:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Some day we’ll be a team that prepares, executes, and finishes. Doesn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Barely hanging on here. Not sure what will be left after we start 0-2 getting killed by the Eagles. Since we played the Eagles week 2 last year ... will be interesting to see if our our 'offseason plan' has gained any ground on the big boys. And by big boys I mean the tough teams from start to finish. Not that offseason plans are all that. It doesn't mean that a team can't start slow and end strong or that a good team can't fizzle. Course corrections and adjustments are more important than offseason and game plans. IMO adding Hockensen last year in season was about the only course correction that happened. One small answer is standing out there begging for an opportunity. Not sure Risner's any good ... something is turning people off. But if we're going to audition felony RBs, the least we can do is give him a non-guaranteed shot. Unfortunately we've turned Hock into a 3 yard and a cloud of dust receiving TE. We spent a lot of capital for a 'move' TE that is just really another check-down option for Cousins. As if he really needs that. Kwesi? Tell me I'm wrong. It's on the coach to use him correctly. He's very capable of stretching the field. Yup. He was averaging 15.2 YPC for Detroit last year. 8.7 with us. For his career, he's 3 full yards less per reception with the Vikings than with the Lions.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 4:02:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Some day we’ll be a team that prepares, executes, and finishes. Doesn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Barely hanging on here. Not sure what will be left after we start 0-2 getting killed by the Eagles. Since we played the Eagles week 2 last year ... will be interesting to see if our our 'offseason plan' has gained any ground on the big boys. And by big boys I mean the tough teams from start to finish. Not that offseason plans are all that. It doesn't mean that a team can't start slow and end strong or that a good team can't fizzle. Course corrections and adjustments are more important than offseason and game plans. IMO adding Hockensen last year in season was about the only course correction that happened. One small answer is standing out there begging for an opportunity. Not sure Risner's any good ... something is turning people off. But if we're going to audition felony RBs, the least we can do is give him a non-guaranteed shot. Unfortunately we've turned Hock into a 3 yard and a cloud of dust receiving TE. We spent a lot of capital for a 'move' TE that is just really another check-down option for Cousins. As if he really needs that. Kwesi? Tell me I'm wrong. It's on the coach to use him correctly. He's very capable of stretching the field. Yup. He was averaging 15.2 YPC for Detroit last year. 8.7 with us. For his career, he's 3 full yards less per reception with the Vikings than with the Lions. Ouch!

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 4:08:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser The TO's were killer but we still have way too many 3 and outs. That can't sustain if we want to be successful. 3 and outs - better said as not getting a first down when not scoring, turning the ball over or end of a half - on our schedule (hey, make fun if you want but I had nothing better to do than sit outside with my computer, cup of coffee and my son's dog) MN --- 6 TB --- 4 PHIL - 4 in a row LAC - 4 CAR - 5 KC --- 3 CHI -- 3 > 2 series' in 1st q, 17-16 game SF --- 0 GB --- 3 ATL -- 4 NO --- 2 DEN - 1 LV --- 0 CINN - 8 DET -- 4

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 5:14:01 PM)
Despite how sad this is i still got a chuckle out of it: @vikingsnationmn #Vikings RG Ed Ingram ranked 73rd out of 77 qualifying guards in PFF’s pass blocking grades yesterday. In 18 career starts, Ingram has allowed 12 sacks and 67 pressures. The caveat of it all is that he has also somehow racked up three sacks and a forced fumble against his own QB

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 5:29:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Some day we’ll be a team that prepares, executes, and finishes. Doesn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Barely hanging on here. Not sure what will be left after we start 0-2 getting killed by the Eagles. Since we played the Eagles week 2 last year ... will be interesting to see if our our 'offseason plan' has gained any ground on the big boys. And by big boys I mean the tough teams from start to finish. Not that offseason plans are all that. It doesn't mean that a team can't start slow and end strong or that a good team can't fizzle. Course corrections and adjustments are more important than offseason and game plans. IMO adding Hockensen last year in season was about the only course correction that happened. One small answer is standing out there begging for an opportunity. Not sure Risner's any good ... something is turning people off. But if we're going to audition felony RBs, the least we can do is give him a non-guaranteed shot. Unfortunately we've turned Hock into a 3 yard and a cloud of dust receiving TE. We spent a lot of capital for a 'move' TE that is just really another check-down option for Cousins. As if he really needs that. Kwesi? Tell me I'm wrong. It's on the coach to use him correctly. He's very capable of stretching the field. Obviously. If you read up further in the thread, the conversation was about adding assets.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 5:32:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Despite how sad this is i still got a chuckle out of it: @vikingsnationmn #Vikings RG Ed Ingram ranked 73rd out of 77 qualifying guards in PFF’s pass blocking grades yesterday. In 18 career starts, Ingram has allowed 12 sacks and 67 pressures. The caveat of it all is that he has also somehow racked up three sacks and a forced fumble against his own QB Quite simply the worst offensive lineman in football. They had to know how bad he was last year and how much he would have to improve just to reach the threshold of below average. It's mind boggling that they could see this and decide to roll the dice on him again this year. As I said before, in 55 years of watching the NFL I had never seen a guard knock the ball out on the center snap.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 5:51:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Despite how sad this is i still got a chuckle out of it: @vikingsnationmn #Vikings RG Ed Ingram ranked 73rd out of 77 qualifying guards in PFF’s pass blocking grades yesterday. In 18 career starts, Ingram has allowed 12 sacks and 67 pressures. The caveat of it all is that he has also somehow racked up three sacks and a forced fumble against his own QB Quite simply the worst offensive lineman in football. They had to know how bad he was last year and how much he would have to improve just to reach the threshold of below average. It's mind boggling that they could see this and decide to roll the dice on him again this year. As I said before, in 55 years of watching the NFL I had never seen a guard knock the ball out on the center snap. Its stubbornness. I get that you used a 2nd round pick on him, But the only options aren't start him or cut him. There is no shame brining in someone to, at the very least, compete for the job with him. And there is no shame in saying "we still love his future, but he's just not ready yet for a Playoff run". Take the pressure off him and the team. Coach him up for a season or two. If he then still doesn't pan out, yeah, he was a bad pick. But continuing to start him doesn't do anyone any favors.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 6:00:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Despite how sad this is i still got a chuckle out of it: @vikingsnationmn #Vikings RG Ed Ingram ranked 73rd out of 77 qualifying guards in PFF’s pass blocking grades yesterday. In 18 career starts, Ingram has allowed 12 sacks and 67 pressures. The caveat of it all is that he has also somehow racked up three sacks and a forced fumble against his own QB Quite simply the worst offensive lineman in football. They had to know how bad he was last year and how much he would have to improve just to reach the threshold of below average. It's mind boggling that they could see this and decide to roll the dice on him again this year. As I said before, in 55 years of watching the NFL I had never seen a guard knock the ball out on the center snap. Its stubbornness. I get that you used a 2nd round pick on him, But the only options aren't start him or cut him. There is no shame brining in someone to, at the very least, compete for the job with him. And there is no shame in saying "we still love his future, but he's just not ready yet for a Playoff run". Take the pressure off him and the team. Coach him up for a season or two. If he then still doesn't pan out, yeah, he was a bad pick. But continuing to start him doesn't do anyone any favors. I agree. The man has no concept of timing or spacing. He needs to be on the bench while he works on it in practice.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 7:07:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Despite how sad this is i still got a chuckle out of it: @vikingsnationmn #Vikings RG Ed Ingram ranked 73rd out of 77 qualifying guards in PFF’s pass blocking grades yesterday. In 18 career starts, Ingram has allowed 12 sacks and 67 pressures. The caveat of it all is that he has also somehow racked up three sacks and a forced fumble against his own QB Quite simply the worst offensive lineman in football. They had to know how bad he was last year and how much he would have to improve just to reach the threshold of below average. It's mind boggling that they could see this and decide to roll the dice on him again this year. As I said before, in 55 years of watching the NFL I had never seen a guard knock the ball out on the center snap. Its stubbornness. I get that you used a 2nd round pick on him, But the only options aren't start him or cut him. There is no shame brining in someone to, at the very least, compete for the job with him. And there is no shame in saying "we still love his future, but he's just not ready yet for a Playoff run". Take the pressure off him and the team. Coach him up for a season or two. If he then still doesn't pan out, yeah, he was a bad pick. But continuing to start him doesn't do anyone any favors. I agree. The man has no concept of timing or spacing. He needs to be on the bench while he works on it in practice. Bingo! Sometimes you gotta take a step back at the very least. Continuing to put him out there in his current state is probably only destroying his confidence.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/13/2023 8:50:38 PM)
In regard to Ingram, Kwesi is reminding me of Spielman's love for Kahlil. Every GM f's up picks yet just keep insisting the guy be out there starting because they don't want to be wrong about the pick. Ingram has been a grease fire and Kwesi needs to let O'Connell replace him. Ingram alone, indirectly, has cost us games. How often do you see guards routinely step on the qb's foot or knock the ball out of his hands at this level? Time to move on. Give Brandel a shot at it.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/14/2023 7:35:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro In regard to Ingram, Kwesi is reminding me of Spielman's love for Kahlil. Every GM f's up picks yet just keep insisting the guy be out there starting because they don't want to be wrong about the pick. Ingram has been a grease fire and Kwesi needs to let O'Connell replace him. Ingram alone, indirectly, has cost us games. How often do you see guards routinely step on the qb's foot or knock the ball out of his hands at this level? Time to move on. Give Brandel a shot at it. Wasn't that an injury problem versus a performance issue? You are probably thinking of someone else.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/14/2023 7:44:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro In regard to Ingram, Kwesi is reminding me of Spielman's love for Kahlil. Every GM f's up picks yet just keep insisting the guy be out there starting because they don't want to be wrong about the pick. Ingram has been a grease fire and Kwesi needs to let O'Connell replace him. Ingram alone, indirectly, has cost us games. How often do you see guards routinely step on the qb's foot or knock the ball out of his hands at this level? Time to move on. Give Brandel a shot at it. Wasn't that an injury problem versus a performance issue? You are probably thinking of someone else. No, Kalil was bad. The injury issue was that Kalil couldn't perform at a respectable level unless he was 100% physically.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/14/2023 8:46:14 AM)
Kalil had a good first year, especially for a rookie, I attribute that in part due to being around his father and brother. Then teams countered and he was done. The injuries were later. The difference between Ingram and Kalil is that Kalil played well his first year. That, coupled with being a #3 overall pick would likely lead a GM/HC to keep him out there longer than normal.

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