RE: 2024 Draft (Full Version)

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Trekgeekscott -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 9:51:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.

I say we leave them as they are and choose the best offensive lineman at #11 and Penix at #23.

Pennix has a strong accurate arm, is old, immobile and stunk it up in the big game. Sounds like another QB you despise.

But he played in the Pac-10.

Brad loves Pac-10 players. Don't know what he's going to do now that the Pac-10 will soon cease to exist...



Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 9:53:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Your knees have to be sore from the “ optimistic position…”..

[&:]


I’ll take sore knees in trade for getting my spark back.



kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 9:57:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I read this morning that it is the Commanders that are more open to a trade and that the Pats are going to stay at 3 for their QB

That is the opposite of what I'd been hearing prior...

Can't believe anything at this time

But it is also a reminder that no matter how much we are willing to give up to trade up, if the teams there are set on taking one of the "top 3" QB's, then we are screwed

I think it will feel like quite a letdown to be "stuck" with McCarthy at 5

If none of the teams with the top 3 picks are willing to trade we are saved from ourselves. Or maybe at that point Kwesi does "whatever it takes" to convince one of them to trade. [X(][sm=banghead.gif]



Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 10:00:16 AM)

[sm=doindadomodance.gif]

WHATEVER IT TAKES!



David Levine -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 10:00:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.


I think we have a better chance getting to 3 than to 4 or 5. And that’s 100% dependent on NE not wanting Maye or McCarthy - and Washington taking Daniels.

Arizona and LAC are desperate for a WR to pair with their QB. And no one expects any of the top 3 to make it to 11.

I get the “value chart”, but it’s a suggestion, not an enforceable rule.



David Levine -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 10:04:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.

I say we leave them as they are and choose the best offensive lineman at #11 and Penix at #23.

Pennix has a strong accurate arm, is old, immobile and stunk it up in the big game. Sounds like another QB you despise.


Not much shame in losing to the #1 team. Especially when you knocked off #3 and #5 the previous two games.

Never base your draft on a single game. That’s how you end up with Jonny Flynn.



David Levine -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 10:19:59 AM)

My hope is that Kwesi already has the framework of a trade-up in place - just dependent on the draft falling a certain way.

But I'm not ready to give him that benefit of the doubt just yet.



TJSweens -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 10:24:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.


I think we have a better chance getting to 3 than to 4 or 5. And that’s 100% dependent on NE not wanting Maye or McCarthy - and Washington taking Daniels.

Arizona and LAC are desperate for a WR to pair with their QB. And no one expects any of the top 3 to make it to 11.

I get the “value chart”, but it’s a suggestion, not an enforceable rule.

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.



David Levine -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 10:36:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.


I think we have a better chance getting to 3 than to 4 or 5. And that’s 100% dependent on NE not wanting Maye or McCarthy - and Washington taking Daniels.

Arizona and LAC are desperate for a WR to pair with their QB. And no one expects any of the top 3 to make it to 11.

I get the “value chart”, but it’s a suggestion, not an enforceable rule.

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.


1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

The Giants are the team that scare me. They can match our 11+23 point total with 6+47 - and allow the team they trade with to still get one of the WRs. So they have a better shot at getting 4 or 5 - and thus the means to move up to 2 or 3.

Plus if more capitol is needed, they have 70 and 107 this year, while we only have 108 and 129.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 10:41:54 AM)

Thank god we beat the Raiders in that 3-0 barnburner. If we had lost we'd be picking #6, where the Giants are now.



David Levine -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 11:01:55 AM)

Drake Maye, Jayden Daniels, Justin Jefferson’s extension and more: Vikings mailbag
By Alec Lewis

What would it take to get to the third pick? — Jeff B.

We have to start here. Once Cousins departed, the Vikings’ next step became obvious: find the quarterback of the future. Acquiring the 23rd pick from the Texans adds gasoline to the fire.

There’s a dividing line between the draft’s top three quarterback prospects (Caleb Williams, Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels) and the second tier (J.J. McCarthy, Michael Penix and Bo Nix). If the Vikings want one of the top-tier options, they’ll likely have to climb into the top three.

Doing so won’t be easy. In 2021, the San Francisco 49ers moved from No. 12 to No. 3 by trading three first-round picks and a third-rounder. In 2016, the Los Angeles Rams moved from No. 15 to No. 1 in exchange for two first-rounders, two second-rounders and two third-rounders.

Minnesota is already going down a similar path. Neither Washington nor New England would listen unless the offer included multiple firsts (and potentially more). The Vikings could probably secure a top-three selection for No. 11, No. 23, a 2025 first-rounder and a 2026 second-rounder. Accounting for what the Vikings sent to the Texans, here’s what a sensible overall package could be:

Vikings Offer: 11, 42, 188, 2025 1st, 2025 2nd, 2026 2nd.
Vikings Receive: 2/3, 232

Might the Vikings be able to hold onto next year’s first-round pick if they trade up into the top five? — Hunter G.

It depends. If the Vikings are committed to snagging a top-three quarterback, it’s doubtful. But if they’re OK ascending to No. 4 or 5 for an option like McCarthy — which feels like a major if — they could conceivably keep their future firsts.

Which is more likely: trading three firsts and getting Maye or trading two firsts and landing McCarthy? — Jordan J.

I think the first outcome is much more likely than the second.

It appears the Vikings prefer Drake Maye to Jayden Daniels. Why is that the case? — Luke B.

It might appear this way externally, but I’m not sure I believe that.

As we’ve previously written, the Vikings were one of the teams that dove into, evaluated and expressed interest in Daniels the earliest. He’s wildly athletic, but the tape shows his accuracy, polish and ability to progress through reads on time. Head coach Kevin O’Connell values all of those qualities.

Maye is more raw but offers loads of promise. Evaluators rave about his leadership and temperament. His size and arm strength are undeniable. Emerge from the draft with either of these two, and the Vikings would assuredly be over the moon.

https://theathletic.com/5348726/2024/03/18/vikings-drake-maye-jayden-daniels-justin-jefferson/



Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 11:31:30 AM)

Won’t be able to do the 2’s now.


Doesn’t matter. Ship it!



kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 11:32:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.


I think we have a better chance getting to 3 than to 4 or 5. And that’s 100% dependent on NE not wanting Maye or McCarthy - and Washington taking Daniels.

Arizona and LAC are desperate for a WR to pair with their QB. And no one expects any of the top 3 to make it to 11.

I get the “value chart”, but it’s a suggestion, not an enforceable rule.

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.


1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

The Giants are the team that scare me. They can match our 11+23 point total with 6+47 - and allow the team they trade with to still get one of the WRs. So they have a better shot at getting 4 or 5 - and thus the means to move up to 2 or 3.

Plus if more capitol is needed, they have 70 and 107 this year, while we only have 108 and 129.

The Giants don't scare me at all. I don't buy them drafting a QB this year and eating the remainder of Daniel Jones's contract. Not going to happen.



Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 11:35:17 AM)

Washington won’t deal to the Giants.

Come on Washington you owe us.



Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 11:40:09 AM)

Call up the Commanders GM and tell him he’s taking 4 1sts for the #2 pick.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 11:45:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Won’t be able to do the 2’s now.


Doesn’t matter. Ship it!


The article took the 2s into account by itemizing the Houston trade plus what it could take to get to 2/3.

Vikings Offer: 11, 42, 188, 2025 1st, 2025 2nd, 2026 2nd.
Vikings Receive: 2/3, 232


It's the same 11, 23, and 2025 1st kicked around here in addition to a 2026 2nd. It would be remembered as three 1st rounders (2024, 2024, 2025) and a 2nd rounder (2026).



Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 11:55:20 AM)

Thought but wasn't sure Drake Maye was the younger bro of Luke Maye. Luke sort of came out of nowhere at UNC (basketball) and was IMO the classic overachiever. But he had nerves of steel, unphased by anything. Athletically limited for the NBA but ended up a pretty good story for the Tar Heels.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/drake-maye-luke-maye-north-carolina-brother-athletic-family/96fa899e2d364c6b22e29486

Quite an athletic family. The youngster Beau has had NINE knee surgeries... incredible.



Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 12:06:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Thought but wasn't sure Drake Maye was the younger bro of Luke Maye. Luke sort of came out of nowhere at UNC (basketball) and was IMO the classic overachiever. But he had nerves of steel, unphased by anything. Athletically limited for the NBA but ended up a pretty good story for the Tar Heels.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/drake-maye-luke-maye-north-carolina-brother-athletic-family/96fa899e2d364c6b22e29486

Quite an athletic family. The youngster Beau has had NINE knee surgeries... incredible.

So in other words, Kwesi is trying to move up for Beau not Drake.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 12:28:44 PM)

David, Some great points there.

The only thing the article fails to mention when comparing with trades other teams made to move up, is the fact that a #1 pick this year is more valuable than a #1 pick next year.

I believe Spielman traded a 4th from a draft for a 3rd from the next draft.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 12:31:44 PM)

I like that the Vikings traded up for pick #23 in this year's draft, but it might have been a better idea to do that trade just a few days before the draft, so other teams wouldn't have so much time to counter, and they could end up outbidding the Vikings for the targeted pick #2 or pick #3.

Now teams have over a month to negotiate with Washington and New England, and the Vikings could get outbid.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 1:17:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Thought but wasn't sure Drake Maye was the younger bro of Luke Maye. Luke sort of came out of nowhere at UNC (basketball) and was IMO the classic overachiever. But he had nerves of steel, unphased by anything. Athletically limited for the NBA but ended up a pretty good story for the Tar Heels.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/drake-maye-luke-maye-north-carolina-brother-athletic-family/96fa899e2d364c6b22e29486

Quite an athletic family. The youngster Beau has had NINE knee surgeries... incredible.

So in other words, Kwesi is trying to move up for Beau not Drake.




They better due their dilligence on him. That sounds like it might be a family medical thing. 1 or 2 can be outliers but 9 [:-]



kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 1:20:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.


I think we have a better chance getting to 3 than to 4 or 5. And that’s 100% dependent on NE not wanting Maye or McCarthy - and Washington taking Daniels.

Arizona and LAC are desperate for a WR to pair with their QB. And no one expects any of the top 3 to make it to 11.

I get the “value chart”, but it’s a suggestion, not an enforceable rule.

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.


1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

The Giants are the team that scare me. They can match our 11+23 point total with 6+47 - and allow the team they trade with to still get one of the WRs. So they have a better shot at getting 4 or 5 - and thus the means to move up to 2 or 3.

Plus if more capitol is needed, they have 70 and 107 this year, while we only have 108 and 129.

The Giants don't scare me at all. I don't buy them drafting a QB this year and eating the remainder of Daniel Jones's contract. Not going to happen.

It has been brought to my attention that Jones's deal is really only 2 years so they would only have to eat this years more or less. I take back my no concern about the Giants comment.



TJSweens -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 1:32:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.


1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

1. While true, would these teams rather add Jefferson or Addison plus a stud at another position?
2. This is an apples and oranges comparison. We need a lot more than a QB, but a franchise QB is the hardest piece in the NFL universe to get.
3. I think the potential for secondary moves is a lot greater with 11 & 23 than 6 & 47. They can move up or down with either first rounder. They can trade 23 back into the neighborhood of 47 and pick up more assets.



David Levine -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 2:06:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.


1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

1. While true, would these teams rather add Jefferson or Addison plus a stud at another position?
2. This is an apples and oranges comparison. We need a lot more than a QB, but a franchise QB is the hardest piece in the NFL universe to get.
3. I think the potential for secondary moves is a lot greater with 11 & 23 than 6 & 47. They can move up or down with either first rounder. They can trade 23 back into the neighborhood of 47 and pick up more assets.


So its Apples to Apples, since both Washington and NE need a QB as badly as we do.



TJSweens -> RE: 2024 Draft (3/18/2024 2:10:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.


1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

1. While true, would these teams rather add Jefferson or Addison plus a stud at another position?
2. This is an apples and oranges comparison. We need a lot more than a QB, but a franchise QB is the hardest piece in the NFL universe to get.
3. I think the potential for secondary moves is a lot greater with 11 & 23 than 6 & 47. They can move up or down with either first rounder. They can trade 23 back into the neighborhood of 47 and pick up more assets.


So its Apples to Apples, since both Washington and NE need a QB as badly as we do.

I'm talking about a trade to #4 or 5. I said both of those teams need more than a WR. You replied so do we, which I took to mean we need more than a QB.



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