RE: 2024 Draft

RE: 2024 Draft (Full Version)

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk

Message

Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 11:16:24 AM)
Alright. Back to Penix at 11. What’s the bigger risk? The bust rate of QB’s tied to the cost of moving up, or Penix staying healthy?

Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 11:22:18 AM)
More from the article.. While scrambling under pressure may not always be a problem (though I strongly suspect scrambling more often than Lamar Jackson, the greatest scrambler in history, is a problem), scrambling from clean pockets is a much more troublesome sign. Unfortunately Daniels has the highest clean pocket scramble rate of any prospect I’ve studied, taking off running without being pressured on almost 1 out of every 10 dropbacks, at 9.4%. Jalen Hurts (9.1%), Jacoby Brissett (8.5%) and Justin Fields (8.2%) are the only prospects to even hit 8% in that department, and while Hurts has largely mastered that impulse behind an outstanding Eagles offensive line in his career, Brissett and Fields have both run themselves into trouble at a fair clip. Scrambling from a clean pocket in order to create when receivers aren’t coming open downfield isn’t an inherently bad trait, many of the successful mobile QBs in recent memory did so about 5% of the time on average in college, but scrambling almost 10% of the time from a clean pocket is almost certainly the result of a QB growing impatient or skittish within structure and breaking the play before allowing it to develop.

Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 11:51:27 AM)
1 week to go and this QB class looks a lot less shiny than it did at the beginning of the year.

beo -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 12:21:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... Four 1st round picks for a guy who could easily end up being the next Justin Fields? I wouldn't do it. It would have to be a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect for me to even consider it. If he falls to you... sure. But unless you grade him as MILES above the other 4-5 qbs in this draft... I'd say that is a bad decision.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 12:28:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... Four 1st round picks for a guy who could easily end up being the next Justin Fields? I wouldn't do it. It would have to be a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect for me to even consider it. If he falls to you... sure. But unless you grade him as MILES above the other 4-5 qbs in this draft... I'd say that is a bad decision. To cough up four 1st rounders he better be graded as miles above QBs in the last 10 drafts. Not into setting the bar when expending resources. Manning, Elway, yes Luck, different story. A friend who is a Pats fan isn't thrilled with the likely options and is hoping NE can fleece some team.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 12:35:51 PM)
Over in Vikings land, rest assured everyone in the regime "will be on the same page" with the player they pick. An idiotic statement that boggles the mind given the number of people likely involved with the draft. Collaboration run amuck, i.e. Groupthink... led by the portfolio manager/commodities trader who really can't believe he is an NFL GM and is just riding out a primo job.

David Levine -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 1:45:33 PM)
The Athletic 7 Round draft: *1 (4). Minnesota Vikings (from ARI): J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan (Projected trade: Vikings trade picks Nos. 11 and 23 and a 2025 third-round pick to the Cardinals for No. 4.) It is no secret that the Vikings are quarterback shopping in the NFL Draft, but how high can they trade up to secure their guy? In this scenario, Minnesota jumps to No. 4 for McCarthy, which would mark the first time in NFL Draft history we see quarterbacks drafted 1-2-3-4 overall. 4 (108). DeWayne Carter, DT, Duke 4 (129). Mason McCormick, G, South Dakota State 5 (157). Minnesota Vikings (from CLE): Qwan’tez Stiggers, CB, CFL** The first non-combine prospect drafted here is Stiggers, a CFL product who has had a Hollywood-worthy journey to this point. But he is more than a feel-good story — Stiggers has the talent to work his way up an NFL depth chart. 5 (167). Eric Watts, Edge, UConn 6 (177). Ainias Smith, WR, Texas A&M 7 (230). Tyrice Knight, LB, UTEP 7 (232). Dylan McMahon, C, NC State https://theathletic.com/5418352/2024/04/17/nfl-mock-draft-2024-full-seven-rounds-dane-brugler/?source=targeted_email&campaign=9604949&userId=114953

David Levine -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 1:48:26 PM)
For the record: *29. Las Vegas Raiders (from DET): Michael Penix Jr., QB, Washington** (Projected trade: Raiders trade picks Nos. 44 and 77 to the Lions for No. 29.) According to The Athletic’s Vic Tafur, “the whispers are getting louder” that the Raiders might draft Penix at No. 13. But this scenario feels like the better option, even if it means parting with a pair of Day 2 draft picks. A polarizing player among NFL front offices, Penix is an aggressive downfield passer with the mental toughness that will certainly stand out for Pierce and his staff. Los Angeles Rams 2 (52). Bo Nix, QB, Oregon Denver Broncos 3 (76). Spencer Rattler, QB, South Carolina Atlanta Falcons 6 (197). Joe Milton III, QB, Tennessee

ratoppenheimer -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 3:11:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... Four 1st round picks for a guy who could easily end up being the next Justin Fields? I wouldn't do it. It would have to be a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect for me to even consider it. If he falls to you... sure. But unless you grade him as MILES above the other 4-5 qbs in this draft... I'd say that is a bad decision. of course, one of the prerequisites for the four 1st rounders would be that O'Connell is very, very high on the quarterback...

TJSweens -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 7:08:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Alright. Back to Penix at 11. What’s the bigger risk? The bust rate of QB’s tied to the cost of moving up, or Penix staying healthy? I wouldn't even take Penix at 23. Trade back from that spot and he'll still be there in the second round.

Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 7:36:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... Four 1st round picks for a guy who could easily end up being the next Justin Fields? I wouldn't do it. It would have to be a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect for me to even consider it. If he falls to you... sure. But unless you grade him as MILES above the other 4-5 qbs in this draft... I'd say that is a bad decision. of course, one of the prerequisites for the four 1st rounders would be that O'Connell is very, very high on the quarterback... First of all, Williams doesn't even come close to the same fanfare as Manning Luck, much less the other guys. Is Williams even as highly touted as Lawrence. Maybe. And what qualifies O'Connell as such a good judge of college QB talent? As WASH OC in 2019, they drafted Haskins. As Vikings HC, they drafted Hall. That's it for QBs associated with his different stops as a coach. But wait. Its not just his decision ... 3D chess-draft grandmaster Kwesi is also involved. The only two QBs associated with Kwesi tenures were Beathard by the 49ers (2017) [when he was more of a cap / contract guy] and Hall las year. So howsa bout we don't sink 4 first rd picks on a wild hair by Kevin or Kwesi?

kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 8:05:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... So four 1st round picks. Would you give up five? right this moment, with everything that i know - i would not go beyond '26.... NFL rules you can't trade picks past the next 3 drafts. We can't give up any picks from 27.

kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 8:08:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Alright. Back to Penix at 11. What’s the bigger risk? The bust rate of QB’s tied to the cost of moving up, or Penix staying healthy? I wouldn't even take Penix at 23. Trade back from that spot and he'll still be there in the second round. Anything can happen, but I'm pretty sure Penix doesn't last past pick 13.

Bill Jandro -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 8:24:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... Four 1st round picks for a guy who could easily end up being the next Justin Fields? I wouldn't do it. It would have to be a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect for me to even consider it. If he falls to you... sure. But unless you grade him as MILES above the other 4-5 qbs in this draft... I'd say that is a bad decision. of course, one of the prerequisites for the four 1st rounders would be that O'Connell is very, very high on the quarterback... First of all, Williams doesn't even come close to the same fanfare as Manning Luck, much less the other guys. Is Williams even as highly touted as Lawrence. Maybe. And what qualifies O'Connell as such a good judge of college QB talent? As WASH OC in 2019, they drafted Haskins. As Vikings HC, they drafted Hall. That's it for QBs associated with his different stops as a coach. But wait. Its not just his decision ... 3D chess-draft grandmaster Kwesi is also involved. The only two QBs associated with Kwesi tenures were Beathard by the 49ers (2017) [when he was more of a cap / contract guy] and Hall las year. So howsa bout we don't sink 4 first rd picks on a wild hair by Kevin or Kwesi? Agreed. Sending even 11 and 23 for McCarthy is rich. I have a bad feeling Kwesi is going to **** this up really bad.

kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 8:33:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... Four 1st round picks for a guy who could easily end up being the next Justin Fields? I wouldn't do it. It would have to be a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect for me to even consider it. If he falls to you... sure. But unless you grade him as MILES above the other 4-5 qbs in this draft... I'd say that is a bad decision. of course, one of the prerequisites for the four 1st rounders would be that O'Connell is very, very high on the quarterback... First of all, Williams doesn't even come close to the same fanfare as Manning Luck, much less the other guys. Is Williams even as highly touted as Lawrence. Maybe. And what qualifies O'Connell as such a good judge of college QB talent? As WASH OC in 2019, they drafted Haskins. As Vikings HC, they drafted Hall. That's it for QBs associated with his different stops as a coach. But wait. Its not just his decision ... 3D chess-draft grandmaster Kwesi is also involved. The only two QBs associated with Kwesi tenures were Beathard by the 49ers (2017) [when he was more of a cap / contract guy] and Hall las year. So howsa bout we don't sink 4 first rd picks on a wild hair by Kevin or Kwesi? Agreed. Sending even 11 and 23 for McCarthy is rich. I have a bad feeling Kwesi is going to this up really bad. [sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]

TJSweens -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 8:36:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Alright. Back to Penix at 11. What’s the bigger risk? The bust rate of QB’s tied to the cost of moving up, or Penix staying healthy? I wouldn't even take Penix at 23. Trade back from that spot and he'll still be there in the second round. Anything can happen, but I'm pretty sure Penix doesn't last past pick 13. In this scenario I think he does. Remember, that means the Vikings don't jump up for McCarthy. That means Denver and Las Vegas grab McCarthy and Nix. Who does that leave to reach for a QB?

kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 9:14:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Alright. Back to Penix at 11. What’s the bigger risk? The bust rate of QB’s tied to the cost of moving up, or Penix staying healthy? I wouldn't even take Penix at 23. Trade back from that spot and he'll still be there in the second round. Anything can happen, but I'm pretty sure Penix doesn't last past pick 13. In this scenario I think he does. Remember, that means the Vikings don't jump up for McCarthy. That means Denver and Las Vegas grab McCarthy and Nix. Who does that leave to reach for a QB? Big assumptions. If that happened I could see the giants, saints, seahawks, jumping 23 to take him ahead of us.

Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/17/2024 9:26:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... Four 1st round picks for a guy who could easily end up being the next Justin Fields? I wouldn't do it. It would have to be a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect for me to even consider it. If he falls to you... sure. But unless you grade him as MILES above the other 4-5 qbs in this draft... I'd say that is a bad decision. of course, one of the prerequisites for the four 1st rounders would be that O'Connell is very, very high on the quarterback... First of all, Williams doesn't even come close to the same fanfare as Manning Luck, much less the other guys. Is Williams even as highly touted as Lawrence. Maybe. And what qualifies O'Connell as such a good judge of college QB talent? As WASH OC in 2019, they drafted Haskins. As Vikings HC, they drafted Hall. That's it for QBs associated with his different stops as a coach. But wait. Its not just his decision ... 3D chess-draft grandmaster Kwesi is also involved. The only two QBs associated with Kwesi tenures were Beathard by the 49ers (2017) [when he was more of a cap / contract guy] and Hall las year. So howsa bout we don't sink 4 first rd picks on a wild hair by Kevin or Kwesi? Agreed. Sending even 11 and 23 for McCarthy is rich. I have a bad feeling Kwesi is going to this up really bad. The good news is, whoever is picking / whoever gets picked ... 50% of the decision is luck, so there's that.

Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/18/2024 6:21:32 AM)
Probably the most fun draft season I can remember. With a week to go we can end the speculation. 1. Chi Willam’s 2. Wash Daniels 3. Min Maye

Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/18/2024 8:20:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M If Daniels gets to 3 he’s the big prize. The only one I want to make a big move for. Depending on 2 teams to make moves in our favor. Otherwise I like Tim’s plan. offer washington 11, 23, and two 1sts - '25 and '26 - and they kick back a 2nd in '26...or they don't kick back a 2nd...just get daniels.... in my experience, people don't regret spending more for quality, but they do regret spending less for inferior.... daniels is the man, go get him.... Four 1st round picks for a guy who could easily end up being the next Justin Fields? I wouldn't do it. It would have to be a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect for me to even consider it. If he falls to you... sure. But unless you grade him as MILES above the other 4-5 qbs in this draft... I'd say that is a bad decision. of course, one of the prerequisites for the four 1st rounders would be that O'Connell is very, very high on the quarterback... First of all, Williams doesn't even come close to the same fanfare as Manning Luck, much less the other guys. Is Williams even as highly touted as Lawrence. Maybe. And what qualifies O'Connell as such a good judge of college QB talent? As WASH OC in 2019, they drafted Haskins. As Vikings HC, they drafted Hall. That's it for QBs associated with his different stops as a coach. But wait. Its not just his decision ... 3D chess-draft grandmaster Kwesi is also involved. The only two QBs associated with Kwesi tenures were Beathard by the 49ers (2017) [when he was more of a cap / contract guy] and Hall las year. So howsa bout we don't sink 4 first rd picks on a wild hair by Kevin or Kwesi? Right. O'Connell this and O'Connell that as if he is some kind of QB guru. What's the hoopla about his scheme being such a good fit? Is it being among the league leaders in pass attempts (3rd in 2022, 4th in 2023)? McCarthy's head will be spinning with that workload. It's less scheme and more about the good targets.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/18/2024 8:25:14 AM)
Redrafting the QBs from the past five years. https://sports.yahoo.com/re-drafting-the-qbs-of-the-past-5-years-182053723.html This year, I'm thinking there is Caleb Williams and just a bunch of guys.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/18/2024 8:38:54 AM)
2023 McCarthy attempts: 332 (a paltry 10-18 in the championship game) Vikings attempts: 631 People love fanciful projections. Like some of these new FAs not only playing full seasons, matching snap counts, etc. but being productive all the while.

kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/18/2024 8:49:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Probably the most fun draft season I can remember. With a week to go we can end the speculation. 1. Chi Willam’s 2. Wash Daniels 3. Min Maye I have been finding this draft season agony due to my belief that Kwesi is going to **** this up really bad.

TJSweens -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/18/2024 8:56:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Alright. Back to Penix at 11. What’s the bigger risk? The bust rate of QB’s tied to the cost of moving up, or Penix staying healthy? I wouldn't even take Penix at 23. Trade back from that spot and he'll still be there in the second round. Anything can happen, but I'm pretty sure Penix doesn't last past pick 13. In this scenario I think he does. Remember, that means the Vikings don't jump up for McCarthy. That means Denver and Las Vegas grab McCarthy and Nix. Who does that leave to reach for a QB? Big assumptions. If that happened I could see the giants, saints, seahawks, jumping 23 to take him ahead of us. I don't see anybody spending extra draft capital just to get Penix. There are serious questions about his performance when the pocket gets crowded and his abilities to make plays outside the pocket. He is also the big arm with everything being a 4 seam fastball.

kgdabom -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/18/2024 9:00:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Alright. Back to Penix at 11. What’s the bigger risk? The bust rate of QB’s tied to the cost of moving up, or Penix staying healthy? I wouldn't even take Penix at 23. Trade back from that spot and he'll still be there in the second round. Anything can happen, but I'm pretty sure Penix doesn't last past pick 13. In this scenario I think he does. Remember, that means the Vikings don't jump up for McCarthy. That means Denver and Las Vegas grab McCarthy and Nix. Who does that leave to reach for a QB? Big assumptions. If that happened I could see the giants, saints, seahawks, jumping 23 to take him ahead of us. I don't see anybody spending extra draft capital just to get Penix. There are serious questions about his performance when the pocket gets crowded and his abilities to make plays outside the pocket. He is also the big arm with everything being a 4 seam fastball. We disagree. Penix has great touch on his passes. I'm on record that Penix will be gone by 15. You're on record that he will last until the 2nd round. Big gap between us. We will see who's closer on where he goes.

Page: << < prev 50 51 [52] 53 54 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5.5 Unicode