RE: 2024 Draft (Full Version)

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Daniel Lee Young -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/20/2024 6:13:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I think I'd be ok with trading back and getting a mid to later 2nd rd pick and take Rattler.

If O'Connell is this so called qb whisperer. He can coach him up.

Couldn’t coach up hall, coached Dobbs into an anxiety head case, did nothing with Mullins..


His resume as a QB coach is horrible.

His war and peace play call scheme that had cousins talking to himself about just how to call the shit in the huddle, has put me on the prove it or get the hell out of dodge..wagon for KOC.

I’ve lost my patience..

If all it takes is verbal skills during an interview to lie you way into a multi-million dollar contract.. I choose the wrong career path 50 years ago..



Daniel Lee Young -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/20/2024 10:53:56 PM)

I see talk the we are throwing away the draft to get Hebert from the Chargers…
Both our firsts, Darrisaw and some conditional 2025 to take on. Hebert injured hand contract..

FT.. FTC.. FKOC and FKAM for being gutless fuqrs, who can’t pick raw talent or coach anything but pro bowl players..

JfC



Todd M -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 6:54:11 AM)

No sense getting angry. We’ve discussed this…no way the Chargers eat 100mil+ in dead cap to trade him.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 9:00:40 AM)

Dobbs is a turnover machine that is done if he is contained in the pocket, and KOC showed that, gave him every chance to prove himself as a pocket passer. Either nobody will ever get much out of Dobbs, he will always be a backup, or someone like SF will turn him into a SB MVP, stay tuned.

KOC got about what SF got out of Mullens, nothing more, nothing less.

KOC couldn't turn Hall into anything. Although it's too early to tell, it's possible that no team ever turns Hall into a Pro Bowl HOFer.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 9:03:48 AM)

KOC turned a mediocre, overpaid Cousins into a guy that could win 13 games with one of the worst defensive coordinators in the history of the league.

KOC was part of what made Matthew Stafford into a SB winner.

It's possible the Vikings draft a QB that is better than Cousins or Stafford, let's see what KOC does with THAT.



Bill Jandro -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 12:25:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

KOC turned a mediocre, overpaid Cousins into a guy that could win 13 games with one of the worst defensive coordinators in the history of the league.

KOC was part of what made Matthew Stafford into a SB winner.

It's possible the Vikings draft a QB that is better than Cousins or Stafford, let's see what KOC does with THAT.

I think the playoffs proved the 13 win season was more lucky than good.

A little rich saying O'Connell is soley responsible for Stafford winning a chip. There is a guy named McVay over there pulling the strings.

If O'Connell is this delicate genious the talking heads keep chirping he should be able to do more with less. Rattler has all the tools let's see if he can coach him up. If not, can his ass.



Daniel Lee Young -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 12:30:38 PM)

KOC apologists are as bad as trumpers.

13 wins was a once in a million set of pure luck.

KFC was worse after the miracle season.. KFC couldn’t coach or playcall or scheme to beat weak teams

We face a far tougher schedule on paper this upcoming season..

I’m betting Darnold gets lost in KOC word salad playcalling and the offense struggles just like last season.



and KAM couldn’t find talent if it was shoved up his ass..

My opinion..



Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 12:37:04 PM)

I'd settle for the ball being snapped with no less than three seconds on the clock. It was a problem in 2022, and KOC failed to fix the problem in 2023. Cousins had a stake in that though.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 12:45:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

KOC turned a mediocre, overpaid Cousins into a guy that could win 13 games with one of the worst defensive coordinators in the history of the league.

KOC was part of what made Matthew Stafford into a SB winner.

It's possible the Vikings draft a QB that is better than Cousins or Stafford, let's see what KOC does with THAT.


Misleading at best. Cousins QB rating after that dream season [&o] was a career low discounting his earliest years in Washington.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 12:56:12 PM)

I don't care about stats, I care about winning games, and KOC got Kirk to do that 13 times.

The offense still worked decently against the Giants, but the combination of Kirk's weaknesses and having the worst DC in the league did them in against the Giants.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 12:59:59 PM)

A little rich saying O'Connell is soley responsible for Stafford winning a chip. There is a guy named McVay over there pulling the strings.

You must have trouble with reading comprehension, that is why I said:

KOC was part of what made Matthew Stafford into a SB winner.

I said he was part of what made Stafford into a winning Super Bowl QB, which is quite a bit different than saying he was solely responsible, which is something you made up.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 1:04:32 PM)

It was more than just pure luck winning 13 games, just like it was more than pure luck that Stafford won a Super Bowl, there was preparation involved.

I think the Vikings are on the right track, and am hoping to see KOC working with a QB that is more clutch than Kirk. I also want to see KOC improve on some of his play calling, and not give up too easily on the run game



TJSweens -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 1:41:09 PM)

I don't know if KOC is a good QB coach or not. Cousins, Mullens, Dobbs and Hall couldn't lead a bloodhound to a T-bone no matter who is coaching them.



Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 4:27:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't care about stats, I care about winning games, and KOC got Kirk to do that 13 times.

The offense still worked decently against the Giants, but the combination of Kirk's weaknesses and having the worst DC in the league did them in against the Giants.

Not really.

You make it sound like Cousins had to constantly overcome our own horrible defense all season long including the playoff game.

No. Our offense had to overcome our own offense all season long, stalling out and then overcoming our mistakes, to beat a bunch of cupcakes ...

Week 3 Lions Cousins threw the game winning TD to Osborn (wide open); week 4 Saints Joseph makes it with 24 seconds left (Saints Lutz missed from 61 to go to overtime, it bounced off the upright and crossbar!); week 9 Commanders down by 10 in 4th Cousins leads 3 scoring drives to win; week 10 Bills the JJ catch / our turnover on downs but Allen drops ball on goal line for a TD / in OT joseph kicks a FG and Peterson intercepts Allen at the endzone to end the game.; week 13 Jets Bynum intercepts to seal the win; week 15 Colts greatest comeback in nfl history capped by Joseph's kick in OT; week 16 Giants Joseph kicks a walk off 61 yarder ...

Wasn't all Cousins, wasn't all luck ... even the defense contributed some big game sealing turnovers. Joseph was big at the end of games.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 4:44:25 PM)

...I care about wins...

LMAO, after playing numerous teams with backup QBs, only seven real road games in a 17 game schedule, and many other oddities we get spanked by the hapless NYG - at home no less - in the playoffs.

At least it's widely recognized that regular season was a fluke.

Bottomline, the Vikings 2022 record was 0-1. That's for those that care about wins, real wins.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 4:47:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't care about stats, I care about winning games, and KOC got Kirk to do that 13 times.

The offense still worked decently against the Giants, but the combination of Kirk's weaknesses and having the worst DC in the league did them in against the Giants.

Not really.

You make it sound like Cousins had to constantly overcome our own horrible defense all season long including the playoff game.

No. Our offense had to overcome our own offense all season long, stalling out and then overcoming our mistakes, to beat a bunch of cupcakes ...

Week 3 Lions Cousins threw the game winning TD to Osborn (wide open); week 4 Saints Joseph makes it with 24 seconds left (Saints Lutz missed from 61 to go to overtime, it bounced off the upright and crossbar!); week 9 Commanders down by 10 in 4th Cousins leads 3 scoring drives to win; week 10 Bills the JJ catch / our turnover on downs but Allen drops ball on goal line for a TD / in OT joseph kicks a FG and Peterson intercepts Allen at the endzone to end the game.; week 13 Jets Bynum intercepts to seal the win; week 15 Colts greatest comeback in nfl history capped by Joseph's kick in OT; week 16 Giants Joseph kicks a walk off 61 yarder ...

Wasn't all Cousins, wasn't all luck ... even the defense contributed some big game sealing turnovers. Joseph was big at the end of games.


He's putting shit out of his ass while trying to stay 'technically correct' but even that's a fail.

Cousins himself said he couldn't understand it, that he wasn't playing well but the team was doing great.



Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 6:10:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

...I care about wins...

LMAO, after playing numerous teams with backup QBs, only seven real road games in a 17 game schedule, and many other oddities we get spanked by the hapless NYG - at home no less - in the playoffs.

At least it's widely recognized that regular season was a fluke.

Bottomline, the Vikings 2022 record was 0-1. That's for those that care about wins, real wins.

Good line.

We all enjoyed the hell out of it. No need to dress it up as something it was not. It was crazy in a good way.

O’Connell has flashes of doing some good things. Even in 2022 we sputtered way too much. I hope in his third year he starts making real strides on a branded KOC offensive system that lives up to his reputation. They’re still picking jurors on that one.

Based on his MO with Cousins / Stafford (as far as a person can tell) it wouldnt surprise me for KOC to have more luck with Darnold than developing a young talent … if we even draft one.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 6:13:37 PM)

So KOC gets a team to play great, to overcome having the worst DC in the league.

KOC just couldn't overcome having a bad DC, a mediocre overpaid QB that didn't work on Wednesdays, who wasn't clutch in playoff games.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 6:17:33 PM)

I would like to see how KOC does with a QB that is more talented than Stafford or Cousins, comes to work every Wednesday (maybe even puts in extra time), is more clutch than Cousins in playoff games, has some ability to make plays after a play breaks down, has some pocket presence and mobility, knows when to spike the ball, etc ....



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 6:27:37 PM)

KOC showed he didn't suck, and a 13-3 season was a good start.

You negative Nellies would have driven Belichek out of NE after just a year or 2.

Let's see what KOC does with a good QB, maybe we'll get the chance to see how he does with a HOF QB.



Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 6:30:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

So KOC gets a team to play great, to overcome having the worst DC in the league.

KOC just couldn't overcome having a bad DC, a mediocre overpaid QB that didn't work on Wednesdays, who wasn't clutch in playoff games.

KOC had to overcome the worst DC in the league ... that he had to sign off on. That he didn't fire during the season.

So just like his offense, he had to overcome the obstacles that he continually created for himself.



Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 6:32:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

KOC showed he didn't suck, and a 13-3 season was a good start.

You negative Nellies would have driven Belichek out of NE after just a year or 2.

Let's see what KOC does with a good QB, maybe we'll get the chance to see how he does with a HOF QB.

LOL. You went from boasting about KOC to 'he doesn't suck.'

I can't believe you are bending the knee to Bill so easily.



Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 6:43:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I don't know if KOC is a good QB coach or not. Cousins, Mullens, Dobbs and Hall couldn't lead a bloodhound to a T-bone no matter who is coaching them.

Right ... again, he did squeeze more out of Stafford and something out of Cousins.

McCown coached with Reich for one year I think ... Phillips with KOC and McVay ... don't know much about passing game coach Angelichio or game management coordinator Cordell

... so the staff is definitely a bunch of little cornichons vs big pickles.

We need to magically draft a unicorn QB prospect and defensive help. Then sign an IOL or two and WR along the way to training camp.

Only then IMO will we see KOC start to become the HC we want.



marty -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 9:23:41 PM)

KOC already feels like the head coach I want, he just needs to finish the job by winning a Super Bowl.



Tom Sykes -> RE: 2024 Draft (4/21/2024 11:21:44 PM)

I remember seeing an interview with Sam Walmart Walton … ‘whats the secret of your success?’ ‘Dont know but I can tell you how to fail … try to please everybody.’

This is my worry with KOC, he is so focused on collaboration, not sure accountability is something that worries his players a lot.

It was a refreshing change from Zimmer for about 5 minutes. Now its, who’s running the asylum?

I like the offseason so far … on paper … but there has to be improved results from the draft this year … just has to be.



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