RE: General Vikes Talk

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Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 11:19:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Gilmore and Shaq Griffin with a combined $12-15 million salary. Not good enough to move the needle, not bad enough to be a complete waste of money. It's the equivalent of being in limbo going about .500 every year. Murphy's cap hit is $11, so it's say $24 million for the top three CBs. Cheap. And you usually get what you pay for. trade bynum and murphy - save $8mm off the present cap...and be a better team for it...start cine at fs and go gilmore, griffin, moreau.... Whoa there. Yes Cine had a good game 'flying around' with vanilla pudding players and execution on offense. I would not anoint him Lazarus back from the dead yet. IMO the only way to get value (present and future) out of cine is to play him into a starter.... He’s earned more playing time in the preseason. Otherwise, I dont like deferring to draft position over performance, even though everybody does it. I would never jettison a starter because you are trying to squeeze more value out of a draft pick. He has to at least earn it against starters.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 11:22:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Gilmore and Shaq Griffin with a combined $12-15 million salary. Not good enough to move the needle, not bad enough to be a complete waste of money. It's the equivalent of being in limbo going about .500 every year. Murphy's cap hit is $11, so it's say $24 million for the top three CBs. Cheap. And you usually get what you pay for. Seems like they want to develop some CBs under Shaq and Gillmore---similar to Terrance Newman except Newman kept out performing the rest and lasted to almost 40. Health is going to dictate a ton on defense but there is more depth on defense then there has been in years. Given the LACK of depth on our defense, I assume you mean that as an insult to our depth in recent years. Not as in, we have some depth. Outside of edge (assuming Van Ginkel makes it back), where are we deep? Safety? Maybe if you include LB-S hybrid Metellus ... not sure I want him in coverage on the backend. Most of the better depth is at pass rushers/OLB/combo spots (Greenard, Van Ginkel, Turner, Murphy, Ward, and we kept Jones. Not having Murphy as you #1 CB but as slot corner also is added depth. McGlothern seems like a good prospect. Depth at Safety is the same with Smith, Metellus, and Bynum but now it sounds like Theo Jackson may allow Bynum to help at CB if needed. DL--Jonah Williams, Tillery, and maybe the new kid Levi Drake Rodriguez.....some promise there. ILB---Pace, Cashman, and Van Ginkel....both Cashman and Van Ginkel are better in the passing game than Hicks.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 11:47:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Gilmore and Shaq Griffin with a combined $12-15 million salary. Not good enough to move the needle, not bad enough to be a complete waste of money. It's the equivalent of being in limbo going about .500 every year. Murphy's cap hit is $11, so it's say $24 million for the top three CBs. Cheap. And you usually get what you pay for. Seems like they want to develop some CBs under Shaq and Gillmore---similar to Terrance Newman except Newman kept out performing the rest and lasted to almost 40. Health is going to dictate a ton on defense but there is more depth on defense then there has been in years. Given the LACK of depth on our defense, I assume you mean that as an insult to our depth in recent years. Not as in, we have some depth. Outside of edge (assuming Van Ginkel makes it back), where are we deep? Safety? Maybe if you include LB-S hybrid Metellus ... not sure I want him in coverage on the backend. Most of the better depth is at pass rushers/OLB/combo spots (Greenard, Van Ginkel, Turner, Murphy, Ward, and we kept Jones. Not having Murphy as you #1 CB but as slot corner also is added depth. McGlothern seems like a good prospect. Depth at Safety is the same with Smith, Metellus, and Bynum but now it sounds like Theo Jackson may allow Bynum to help at CB if needed. DL--Jonah Williams, Tillery, and maybe the new kid Levi Drake Rodriguez.....some promise there. ILB---Pace, Cashman, and Van Ginkel....both Cashman and Van Ginkel are better in the passing game than Hicks. Van Ginkel is an OLB, yes? so don't compare him to Hicks. Cashman is 4 years younger, I doubt he's better in coverage. Or better in general. Stats are weak sauce for comparison ... but hard to compare since Cashman only has one full starting season to look at vs Hicks. Cashman has been no where near as productive as Hicks statistically and that includes Hick's down year 2022 when he looked like a dog. Otherwise, you're just throwing out names that you hope will provide depth. Remains to be seen.

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 11:55:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer Looks like we only have a 1st and 2 5ths next season. Not a great time to bottom out if that happens. No doubt. In a quasi rebuild with very little draft capital is a bit backwards imo. Not sure if that's on Kwesi or the Wilf's whom seem to put unneeded pressure on the regime to be a playoff contender every year. Kwesi still hasn't fully cleaned up the mess Spielman left with him. Likely 3rd round compensatory as well... However, if Vikes do have a disaster year... that missing 2nd rounder is gonna hurt.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 11:57:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Gilmore and Shaq Griffin with a combined $12-15 million salary. Not good enough to move the needle, not bad enough to be a complete waste of money. It's the equivalent of being in limbo going about .500 every year. Murphy's cap hit is $11, so it's say $24 million for the top three CBs. Cheap. And you usually get what you pay for. trade bynum and murphy - save $8mm off the present cap...and be a better team for it...start cine at fs and go gilmore, griffin, moreau.... Whoa there. Yes Cine had a good game 'flying around' with vanilla pudding players and execution on offense. I would not anoint him Lazarus back from the dead yet. IMO the only way to get value (present and future) out of cine is to play him into a starter.... He’s earned more playing time in the preseason. Otherwise, I dont like deferring to draft position over performance, even though everybody does it. I would never jettison a starter because you are trying to squeeze more value out of a draft pick. He has to at least earn it against starters. the vikes are not going to pay bynum, so this is his last season with the team...he's rated #21 on pff, so we might get a nice pick for him...cine is a player that puts fear into opposing offensive players, he's got speed and length...and I believe that he can play, and it wouldn't surprise me if kwesi made this move....

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 12:09:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Gilmore and Shaq Griffin with a combined $12-15 million salary. Not good enough to move the needle, not bad enough to be a complete waste of money. It's the equivalent of being in limbo going about .500 every year. Murphy's cap hit is $11, so it's say $24 million for the top three CBs. Cheap. And you usually get what you pay for. trade bynum and murphy - save $8mm off the present cap...and be a better team for it...start cine at fs and go gilmore, griffin, moreau.... Whoa there. Yes Cine had a good game 'flying around' with vanilla pudding players and execution on offense. I would not anoint him Lazarus back from the dead yet. IMO the only way to get value (present and future) out of cine is to play him into a starter.... He’s earned more playing time in the preseason. Otherwise, I dont like deferring to draft position over performance, even though everybody does it. I would never jettison a starter because you are trying to squeeze more value out of a draft pick. He has to at least earn it against starters. the vikes are not going to pay bynum, so this is his last season with the team...he's rated #21 on pff, so we might get a nice pick for him...cine is a player that puts fear into opposing offensive players, he's got speed and length...and I believe that he can play, and it wouldn't surprise me if kwesi made this move.... Cine puts fear into me if Kwesi makes this move, not opposing players. If we are moving on from steady Bynum after this year ... for what ever reason ... sure, why not. Make the move. Although I doubt very much Cine has anything to do with that decision since the team's own depth chart has Cine behind Theo Jackson. Whatever, I hope Cine gets more exposure in the preseason and continues to flash. Jumping past Jackson and actually getting playing time during the season will be seem like a miraculous turnaround. I'm all for it. I'm just not making contingency plans right now based on it. I believe that's formally referred to as 'Laquon Treadwelling' a position.

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 12:09:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Gilmore and Shaq Griffin with a combined $12-15 million salary. Not good enough to move the needle, not bad enough to be a complete waste of money. It's the equivalent of being in limbo going about .500 every year. Murphy's cap hit is $11, so it's say $24 million for the top three CBs. Cheap. And you usually get what you pay for. trade bynum and murphy - save $8mm off the present cap...and be a better team for it...start cine at fs and go gilmore, griffin, moreau.... Whoa there. Yes Cine had a good game 'flying around' with vanilla pudding players and execution on offense. I would not anoint him Lazarus back from the dead yet. IMO the only way to get value (present and future) out of cine is to play him into a starter.... He’s earned more playing time in the preseason. Otherwise, I dont like deferring to draft position over performance, even though everybody does it. I would never jettison a starter because you are trying to squeeze more value out of a draft pick. He has to at least earn it against starters. the vikes are not going to pay bynum, so this is his last season with the team...he's rated #21 on pff, so we might get a nice pick for him...cine is a player that puts fear into opposing offensive players, he's got speed and length...and I believe that he can play, and it wouldn't surprise me if kwesi made this move.... "and I believe that he can play" What makes you believe that? He couldn't get on the field his first season prior to his injury. He can't play special teams. He was buried on the depth chart last year. I would bet he'll be traded for a conditional pick before the season starts.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:10:32 PM)
Did you watch the game? BEO? Cine looked like he had his head together and in the game.. Yea yea.. “ it’s only preseason.. “ Those guys out there are playing , scratching and clawing for a future in the NFL.. I hope Cine makes the 53.. as whatever.. because sure as shit if we PS him, he will get sniped … Not one person talks about any DL, but Dallas Turner.. Fail.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:26:24 PM)
Every offseason there is off-season hoopla surrounding a safety. Those safeties are gone by week 1. This year the designated safety is Lewis Cine.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:26:25 PM)
IMO, Jorgensen has Bradbury on the ropes for starting center. I think he has played well. He should make the53 and trade Bradbury for a 4th or even a 6 th.. We need capital. Bo Richter looked pretty good in both games so far as an OLB.. IMO he needs to be on the 53. Jeremy Flax needs to transition to NT and learn to be a fn boat anchor that takes a double team to move… He out weighs any DT we have by 30 lbs.. A 345 lb OT? Or a 345lb NT? With coaching and some training .. I’d see if he could work.. But that’s just my opinion.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:28:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Gilmore and Shaq Griffin with a combined $12-15 million salary. Not good enough to move the needle, not bad enough to be a complete waste of money. It's the equivalent of being in limbo going about .500 every year. Murphy's cap hit is $11, so it's say $24 million for the top three CBs. Cheap. And you usually get what you pay for. trade bynum and murphy - save $8mm off the present cap...and be a better team for it...start cine at fs and go gilmore, griffin, moreau.... Whoa there. Yes Cine had a good game 'flying around' with vanilla pudding players and execution on offense. I would not anoint him Lazarus back from the dead yet. IMO the only way to get value (present and future) out of cine is to play him into a starter.... He’s earned more playing time in the preseason. Otherwise, I dont like deferring to draft position over performance, even though everybody does it. I would never jettison a starter because you are trying to squeeze more value out of a draft pick. He has to at least earn it against starters. the vikes are not going to pay bynum, so this is his last season with the team...he's rated #21 on pff, so we might get a nice pick for him...cine is a player that puts fear into opposing offensive players, he's got speed and length...and I believe that he can play, and it wouldn't surprise me if kwesi made this move.... "and I believe that he can play" What makes you believe that? He couldn't get on the field his first season prior to his injury. He can't play special teams. He was buried on the depth chart last year. I would bet he'll be traded for a conditional pick before the season starts. Or one of those 'swapping a 6th for a 7th two years down the road' trades. Basically, a "here, take him" deal.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:31:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Every offseason there is off-season hoopla surrounding a safety. Those safeties are gone by week 1. This year the designated safety is Lewis Cine. Did you watch the game, Bill? Or are you just looking at him as the “bust” you labled him 2 years ago? So far we have at least 2 board pundits who didn’t even bother to watch the games., writing off players based on previous season bias and lack of performance. Why on earth have they been holding Bradbury out? His delicate, immobile , normal flat on the ground ass backwards, Back? He could be cut and I doubt we would have much uproar. Addition by subtraction. Better yet, get a seventh rounder for him.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:33:02 PM)
cine is a player that puts fear into... - GMs - NFL Scouts - Draftnicks - Fans - Pretty much anyone except opposing offensive players Actually, if Kwesi had not tried to be the smartest guy ever with his first pick, Cine may have been picked where he was projected to go and it wouldn't be so bad.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:41:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Every offseason there is off-season hoopla surrounding a safety. Those safeties are gone by week 1. This year the designated safety is Lewis Cine. Did you watch the game, Bill? Or are you just looking at him as the “bust” you labled him 2 years ago? So far we have at least 2 board pundits who didn’t even bother to watch the games., writing off players based on previous season bias and lack of performance. Why on earth have they been holding Bradbury out? His delicate, immobile , normal flat on the ground ass backwards, Back? He could be cut and I doubt we would have much uproar. Addition by subtraction. Better yet, get a seventh rounder for him. And there are a couple of board pundits regaling in a player who has done NOTHING for two years besides collect a paycheck. I saw the first exhibition game but did not see the second exhibition game. I missed him intercepting DeShaun Watson. Was he defending Amari Cooper or Jeudy? Elijah Moore? Ya gotta wonder why the Browns played those guys. Cine, Badbury, others... they all need to go. Cine has a $2.3M cap hit over two-years if cut. Does keeping him mean some potentially deserving player gets cut or another position is reduced by one player?

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:42:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen cine is a player that puts fear into... - GMs - NFL Scouts - Draftnicks - Fans - Pretty much anyone except opposing offensive players Actually, if Kwesi had not tried to be the smartest guy ever with his first pick, Cine may have been picked where he was projected to go and it wouldn't be so bad. Sounds more like you are afraid he will make a contribution… Which would invalidate, 2 years worth of harping on “ the smartest guy in the room “.. which was a room not occupied by one single person on this board..

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 1:54:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen cine is a player that puts fear into... - GMs - NFL Scouts - Draftnicks - Fans - Pretty much anyone except opposing offensive players Actually, if Kwesi had not tried to be the smartest guy ever with his first pick, Cine may have been picked where he was projected to go and it wouldn't be so bad. Sounds more like you are afraid he will make a contribution… Which would invalidate, 2 years worth of harping on “ the smartest guy in the room “.. which was a room not occupied by one single person on this board.. And it sounds like you agree that Cine DOES put fear into opposing offensive players and agree Kwesi made a great pick. I could give a shit if I'm wrong and would hope he becomes an All-Pro.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:03:45 PM)
I don’t need to refute a post.. I watched the games.. both of them., to 00:00. Cine is trending upwards.. And if you had watched the games, you might have heard KAM talking about his GM responsibilities, during the second quarter, or Harrison smith giving his “ miked up” take on players and the coaching culture, or Jets “ miked up” in the Raiders game. I have changed my thoughts on Jefferson, because he is a far more team oriented and goal driven player, than I gave him credit for.. So, that’s why watching games is more practical than bloviating an opinion based on biased, preconceived notions that players are “ busts” And yes.. KFC is and always was a “never will”…

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:07:51 PM)
Speaking of Kwesi's inept drafting in 2022, what's up with that Wright guy we got in the Booth trade?

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:08:22 PM)
For my money, as somebody who wrote off Booth Cine Ingram Asamoah way prematurely … after last year’s cutdowns and first actual depth chart of the season … having Cine turn into a player now wouldn’t even count towards the 2022 draft … thats already been flushed down. Cine making a contribution at safety would feel like an extra 2024 pick that everybody forgot to mention. McCarthy, Turner, Reichard, Cine with an asterisk … what great draft 2024 is turning out to be!

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:22:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young I don’t need to refute a post.. I watched the games.. both of them., to 00:00. Cine is trending upwards.. And if you had watched the games, you might have heard KAM talking about his GM responsibilities, during the second quarter, or Harrison smith giving his “ miked up” take on players and the coaching culture, or Jets “ miked up” in the Raiders game. I have changed my thoughts on Jefferson, because he is a far more team oriented and goal driven player, than I gave him credit for.. So, that’s why watching games is more practical than bloviating an opinion based on biased, preconceived notions that players are “ busts” And yes.. KFC is and always was a “never will”… As I said I watched the first game. So what, Jets was excited about some long passes and said the right things. And wow, Harrison Smith talked, and KAM talked. How TF that has anything to do with the shitty Lewis Cine pick in the 1st round and his even shittier performance to date, I'll never know. I guess they need to fill in time and fan interest during exhibition games, but unlike you I realize player performance (both good and bad) can be deceiving at best. For some reason you are Preseason Central on the board this year what with adding so-called 'games' to the gameday thread and commenting on pretty much every play. Good for you. But beyond that, your opinions from those games mean nothing, and you bashing other opinions also means nothing.

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:38:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen cine is a player that puts fear into... - GMs - NFL Scouts - Draftnicks - Fans - Pretty much anyone except opposing offensive players Actually, if Kwesi had not tried to be the smartest guy ever with his first pick, Cine may have been picked where he was projected to go and it wouldn't be so bad. The game wasn't on where I live so I didn't have an opportunity to watch it. Cine certainly put up nice stats in the practice game. Not sure what to make of it given his struggles in the past. We'll find out shortly what the coaches think of him.

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:47:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young I don’t need to refute a post.. I watched the games.. both of them., to 00:00. Cine is trending upwards.. And if you had watched the games, you might have heard KAM talking about his GM responsibilities, during the second quarter, or Harrison smith giving his “ miked up” take on players and the coaching culture, or Jets “ miked up” in the Raiders game. I have changed my thoughts on Jefferson, because he is a far more team oriented and goal driven player, than I gave him credit for.. So, that’s why watching games is more practical than bloviating an opinion based on biased, preconceived notions that players are “ busts” And yes.. KFC is and always was a “never will”… For me, Cine has to prove it on the field. So far, his career has been a disappointment but he did suffer a bad injury. It's certainly possible he turns things around, but I'm in the prove it camp at the moment. The game wasn't on locally, so I didn't see the team play. It was a preseason game so that has to be factored into the equation.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:55:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen cine is a player that puts fear into... - GMs - NFL Scouts - Draftnicks - Fans - Pretty much anyone except opposing offensive players Actually, if Kwesi had not tried to be the smartest guy ever with his first pick, Cine may have been picked where he was projected to go and it wouldn't be so bad. The game wasn't on where I live so I didn't have an opportunity to watch it. Cine certainly put up nice stats in the practice game. Not sure what to make of it given his struggles in the past. We'll find out shortly what the coaches think of him. Yes, practice game! And there used to be six of them. With the AFL–NFL merger of 1970, the newly merged NFL was granted a Sherman Anti-Trust Act exemption, which emboldened some team owners to expand the exhibition schedule and to require season-ticket holders to pay for one, then two, then three home exhibition games if they wanted to keep their season tickets. From 1970 through 1977, the NFL season consisted of 14 regular season games and six exhibition games, sometimes but not always three at home and three away (the 1973 Washington Redskins, for instance, played all but one of six preseason games at home), with some played at neutral sites.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:57:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young I don’t need to refute a post.. I watched the games.. both of them., to 00:00. Cine is trending upwards.. And if you had watched the games, you might have heard KAM talking about his GM responsibilities, during the second quarter, or Harrison smith giving his “ miked up” take on players and the coaching culture, or Jets “ miked up” in the Raiders game. I have changed my thoughts on Jefferson, because he is a far more team oriented and goal driven player, than I gave him credit for.. So, that’s why watching games is more practical than bloviating an opinion based on biased, preconceived notions that players are “ busts” And yes.. KFC is and always was a “never will”… For me, Cine has to prove it on the field. So far, his career has been a disappointment but he did suffer a bad injury. It's certainly possible he turns things around, but I'm in the prove it camp at the moment. The game wasn't on locally, so I didn't see the team play. It was a preseason game so that has to be factored into the equation. Come on man!

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/19/2024 2:58:36 PM)
. . one has to believe that lewis cine has been through a lot over the past two years.... physically...psychologically...emotionally...spiritually...considering his injury, I can't imagine breaking bones as he did and then running on that ankle the way he does.... also, consider the embarrassment and humiliation he's gone through being considered a complete failure after those lofty highs he's had...his family, friends, teammates past and present, the media.... nobody from the team has spoken about him, or at least I haven't heard it...everyone and their mother has already written him off as a bust.... that game against the browns was like a lewis cine highlight reel from his days in Georgia...sure, they were 2nd/3rd stringers, but one could make an argument that the browns team and its players represented the best team that cine has ever played against, and his college team won the national title - and he won the MVP of that game.... i believe that flores left cine out there for the entire game because he knew that that's what lewis cine needed - to play himself out of the funk he's been in.... for himself and for all here, i hope that cine has found the player that he once was, and could be again...

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