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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 10:47:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why repost a retort in search of a gripe? Must be a reflection of how you feell/think.

Literally nobody is mad about the financials. $1.3 million is beyond cheap. It's a steal!


You just posted his stats from 2025....you mean you posted those and are happy?

So you and Richard just enjoy bitching then? [&:]


Uhh, you posted someone saying people are mad about the FINANCIALS. Try to read.

And no, I posted his stats going back 5 years. Again, try to read.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 10:52:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

QBs are marginal? You must have watched the Brosmer and Wentz games were we couldn't move the ball with Brosmer and couldn't score a TD with Wentz.

JJ and Kyler have the ceiling you want.



So by your 'logic' JJM was NOT marginal because he played better than Wentz (even though Wentz had a higher QBR) and Brosmer? That doesn't even make sense and if it did is an incredibly low bar.

JJM has the ceiling you want? LOL, what ceiling? He can't even find his floor because it caved in!


Road wins at Detroit and Chicago on Prime Time and other handful of games. 5-4 record in 9 games.

JJ had 11 TDs passing, 4 rushing TDs in 9 games. Wentz had 6 TDs in 5 games.....and we couldn't score points with Wentz.

11 tds in 9 games in this day and age is absolutely pedestrian at best.


15 TDs in 8.5 games in his rookie year.

Wentz 6 TDs in 5 games. You need 2 QBs and Wentz isn't a good enough #2.

If you want to be negative fine but be realistic. Murray is way better than Wentz and JJ has a higher ceiling than what he showed but he was 22 last year.

Yes...we need to improve the defense, running game, and Oline yet plus a #3 WR.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 10:54:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

QBs are marginal? You must have watched the Brosmer and Wentz games were we couldn't move the ball with Brosmer and couldn't score a TD with Wentz.

JJ and Kyler have the ceiling you want.



So by your 'logic' JJM was NOT marginal because he played better than Wentz (even though Wentz had a higher QBR) and Brosmer? That doesn't even make sense and if it did is an incredibly low bar.

JJM has the ceiling you want? LOL, what ceiling? He can't even find his floor because it caved in!


Road wins at Detroit and Chicago on Prime Time and other handful of games. 5-4 record in 9 games.

JJ had 11 TDs passing, 4 rushing TDs in 9 games. Wentz had 6 TDs in 5 games.....and we couldn't score points with Wentz.

11 tds in 9 games in this day and age is absolutely pedestrian at best.


15 TDs in 8.5 games in his rookie year.

Wentz 6 TDs in 5 games.

Did I not say Wentz was awful? What am I missing here?




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 10:56:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why repost a retort in search of a gripe? Must be a reflection of how you feell/think.

Literally nobody is mad about the financials. $1.3 million is beyond cheap. It's a steal!


You just posted his stats from 2025....you mean you posted those and are happy?

So you and Richard just enjoy bitching then? [&:]

You're making stuff up in your head. I'm not bitching. Just pointing out we better be really good on D to make the playoffs.


See, this is where you have to toe the company line, post that Murray is a great fit for a couple of reasons, etc.

As it stands, I think given what was left at QB it was a good signing. Mainly because he was so cheap. Two years for $2.6 million would have been better! But he's been repeatedly injured, the facts show his passing has been bad the past 5 years, and (IMO) he is a bad fit for KOC's offense. If that's bitching so be it.

And once again, he should be fun!




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 10:58:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

QBs are marginal? You must have watched the Brosmer and Wentz games were we couldn't move the ball with Brosmer and couldn't score a TD with Wentz.

JJ and Kyler have the ceiling you want.



So by your 'logic' JJM was NOT marginal because he played better than Wentz (even though Wentz had a higher QBR) and Brosmer? That doesn't even make sense and if it did is an incredibly low bar.

JJM has the ceiling you want? LOL, what ceiling? He can't even find his floor because it caved in!


Road wins at Detroit and Chicago on Prime Time and other handful of games. 5-4 record in 9 games.

JJ had 11 TDs passing, 4 rushing TDs in 9 games. Wentz had 6 TDs in 5 games.....and we couldn't score points with Wentz.

11 tds in 9 games in this day and age is absolutely pedestrian at best.


15 TDs in 8.5 games in his rookie year.

Wentz 6 TDs in 5 games.

Did I not say Wentz was awful? What am I missing here?


LOL! You are not missing anything. Post after post about Wentz! What's with his Wentz kick?




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 10:59:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why repost a retort in search of a gripe? Must be a reflection of how you feell/think.

Literally nobody is mad about the financials. $1.3 million is beyond cheap. It's a steal!


You just posted his stats from 2025....you mean you posted those and are happy?

So you and Richard just enjoy bitching then? [&:]

You're making stuff up in your head. I'm not bitching. Just pointing out we better be really good on D to make the playoffs.


See, this is where you have to toe the company line, post that Murray is a great fit for a couple of reasons, etc.

As it stands, I think given what was left at QB it was a good signing. Mainly because he was so cheap. Two years for $2.6 million would have been better! But he's been repeatedly injured, the facts show his passing has been bad the past 5 years, and (IMO) he is a bad fit for KOC's offense. If that's bitching so be it.

And once again, he should be fun!


Company Line?
JJ was 5-4 last year.....[:-]

All I said is our ceiling is way higher at QB now. Ceiling with Wentz and Brosmer starting wasn't very high in those 8 games.

I also mentioned drafting Beck yet.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:01:15 AM)

JJ has a higher ceiling than what he showed but he was 22 last year.

Ok, you self-corrected and that's fine. It's a weird statement but damn better than saying 'JJ has the ceiling you want'.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:02:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

QBs are marginal? You must have watched the Brosmer and Wentz games were we couldn't move the ball with Brosmer and couldn't score a TD with Wentz.

JJ and Kyler have the ceiling you want.



So by your 'logic' JJM was NOT marginal because he played better than Wentz (even though Wentz had a higher QBR) and Brosmer? That doesn't even make sense and if it did is an incredibly low bar.

JJM has the ceiling you want? LOL, what ceiling? He can't even find his floor because it caved in!


Road wins at Detroit and Chicago on Prime Time and other handful of games. 5-4 record in 9 games.

JJ had 11 TDs passing, 4 rushing TDs in 9 games. Wentz had 6 TDs in 5 games.....and we couldn't score points with Wentz.

11 tds in 9 games in this day and age is absolutely pedestrian at best.


15 TDs in 8.5 games in his rookie year.

Wentz 6 TDs in 5 games.

Did I not say Wentz was awful? What am I missing here?


LOL! You are not missing anything. Post after post about Wentz! What's with his Wentz kick?


You must have a poor memory. You said he was better than JJ.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:03:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

JJ has a higher ceiling than what he showed but he was 22 last year.

Ok, you self-corrected and that's fine. It's a weird statement but damn better than saying 'JJ has the ceiling you want'.


Compared to JJ and Wentz? Absolutely.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:04:13 AM)

Talking about JJMs ceiling when he can't even find his floor is like Jim Mora being asked if his team will make the playoffs.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:05:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Talking about JJMs ceiling when he can't even find his floor is like Jim Mora being asked if his team will make the playoffs.


QBR for individual games.....that is the ceiling. He only played in 9 remember....your memory is a little off.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:07:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Talking about JJMs ceiling when he can't even find his floor is like Jim Mora being asked if his team will make the playoffs.


QBR for individual games.....that is the ceiling. He only played in 9 remember....your memory is a little off.

That's another huge problem. The guy can't get the reps because he's always on the shelf.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:09:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

JJ has a higher ceiling than what he showed but he was 22 last year.

Ok, you self-corrected and that's fine. It's a weird statement but damn better than saying 'JJ has the ceiling you want'.


Compared to JJ and Wentz? Absolutely.


Sure. But so what. Those two together were the lowest bar in modern times.

We climbed a bit higher on the trash heap. I'm not even cautiously optimistic about Murray or, especially, JJM but for the former am casually intrigued.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:09:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Talking about JJMs ceiling when he can't even find his floor is like Jim Mora being asked if his team will make the playoffs.


QBR for individual games.....that is the ceiling. He only played in 9 remember....your memory is a little off.

That's another huge problem. The guy can't get the reps because he's always on the shelf.


Totally agree.....great reason to triple down on Beck.

7-8 Million is all we have invested in the qb room this year.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:17:20 AM)

SD




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:22:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

JJ has a higher ceiling than what he showed but he was 22 last year.

Ok, you self-corrected and that's fine. It's a weird statement but damn better than saying 'JJ has the ceiling you want'.


Compared to JJ and Wentz? Absolutely.


Sure. But so what. Those two together were the lowest bar in modern times.

We climbed a bit higher on the trash heap. I'm not even cautiously optimistic about Murray or, especially, JJM but for the former am casually intrigued.


I always hated the trashy 2nd QB (Which I don't think Kyler is). I have about the same Darnold into the 2024 season expectations (for Kyler) and he exceeded them until the last two game implosion.

I am interested to see what the Grenard finality is.....it will show what their intentions are.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:24:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Talking about JJMs ceiling when he can't even find his floor is like Jim Mora being asked if his team will make the playoffs.


QBR for individual games.....that is the ceiling. He only played in 9 remember....your memory is a little off.


I know he only played in 9 games. Because he's fragile as a doll.

Nonsensical reply but now the standard for QBR is individual games? That's strange because when most people go back a year they look at the QBR of the combined games.

And in 2025 shitty Wentz had a higher QBR than shitty JJM so what's your point about QBR?




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:28:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Talking about JJMs ceiling when he can't even find his floor is like Jim Mora being asked if his team will make the playoffs.


QBR for individual games.....that is the ceiling. He only played in 9 remember....your memory is a little off.


I know he only played in 9 games. Because he's fragile as a doll.

Nonsensical reply but now the standard for QBR is individual games? That's strange because when most people go back a year they look at the QBR of the combined games.

And in 2025 shitty Wentz had a higher QBR than shitty JJM so what's your point about QBR?


He had good games and bad.......never said that. The offense just couldn't move under Wentz and @Detroit specifically you could see the difference between the two.

Never the less he has to improve and at 22/23 there is a chance for that......Wentz is what he is/was. So the ceiling is higher for JJ and Kyler in a better system and history also has a higher ceiling IMO.

I would still draft Beck also in case we can't keep Kyler or he implodes.

My expectations aren't that high as I want to see what the Grenard plan is. If you resign Jones and Wilson you almost have to run back Grenard especially after the extra Allen Cap $$$$ but the Vikes are all over the place. Signing older Vets----even the CB we signed isn't young.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:30:33 AM)

They should draft a QB in a later round as a matter of course but it may be wiser to practice what Kwesi only gave lip service to... work the margins. Treat every pick as if it's extremely valuable. In this case, it might be better to trade that pick for a pick a round higher next year. That's assuming they have their eye on moving up in next year's draft to pick a hopeful QBOTF.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:32:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

They should draft a QB in a later round as a matter of course but it may be wiser to practice what Kwesi only gave lip service to... work the margins. Treat every pick as if it's extremely valuable. In this case, it might be better to trade that pick for a pick a round higher next year. That's assuming they have their eye on moving up in next year's draft to pick a hopeful QBOTF.


They say the 2027 draft is better but I think they are just talking QBs. Draft Michigan, Michigan, OSU, Oregon, and SEC guys just to piss off BradH. LOL

Skor North said even a Grenard trade should get the higher round pick in the 2027 draft......3rd/4th round this year and 1st/2nd next.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 11:47:46 AM)

Thor Nystrom had a very interesting statement on one of their podcasts that dropped. He wouldn't elaborate yet but said it's coming when he gets a bit more confirmation but there is something behind the scenes between KOC and JJM. He alluded to "it's personal". It'll be interesting to see what comes of that.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 12:40:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Thor Nystrom had a very interesting statement on one of their podcasts that dropped. He wouldn't elaborate yet but said it's coming when he gets a bit more confirmation but there is something behind the scenes between KOC and JJM. He alluded to "it's personal". It'll be interesting to see what comes of that.


And the following phrases were used:

Product of Harbaugh.

QB whisperer my ass.

Kwesi's precious baby.

More stubborn than Zimmer.

Frail as a doll.

13-4 was a mirage.

F your rah-rah shit.

Brady crotch-sniffer.




Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 12:57:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

They should draft a QB in a later round as a matter of course but it may be wiser to practice what Kwesi only gave lip service to... work the margins. Treat every pick as if it's extremely valuable. In this case, it might be better to trade that pick for a pick a round higher next year. That's assuming they have their eye on moving up in next year's draft to pick a hopeful QBOTF.

absolutely. I draft a full size mid late qb to complement our two-out-of-three current munchkins to hopefully bump brosmer. trade / collect picks … inject the roster with youth for the next regime in 2027 or 2028.

If we’ve picked one by then.




Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 1:03:02 PM)

As far as C-G this year … no need for phone booth neanderthal mashers … we need some Rhoscobel rabbits to prance around while arthur murray does his thing.




Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (3/13/2026 1:06:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

This is...not ideal...

Kyler Murray's Deep Ball Problem

If quarterbacks need to be able to throw the ball downfield, Kyler Murray is one of the NFL’s worst starting quarterbacks.

Murray has traditionally struggled massively to throw a football downfield, and 2025 added to that legacy.

On passes 20+ yards downfield, out of 42 qualifying QBs, Murray ranked #39 in accuracy and #38 in completion rate.

Let’s examine Murray’s NFL rank over the last four years by depth.

On 25+ yard passes, Murray ranks:

#36 of 36 in completion rate (21%)
#36 of 36 in EPA/attempt (-0.18)
#36 of 36 in Y/A (7.5)

How about 20+ yards downfield?

Murray ranks:

#40 of 46 in completion rate (30%)
#45 of 46 in EPA/attempt (-0.16)
#42 of 46 in Y/A (8.7)

How about 15+ yards downfield?

Murray ranks:

#42 of 51 in completion rate (38%)
#51 of 51 in EPA/attempt (+0.05)
#47 of 51 in Y/A (9.3)

We really only need to stop there, because throwing the ball less than 15 yards isn’t really considered taking “a shot downfield,” but to just put a bow on the analysis, let’s look at all passes over 10 yards downfield.

I raised the cutoff to 175 attempts to further reduce the pool. Murray ranks:

#36 of 43 in completion rate (43%)
#43 of 43 in EPA/attempt (+0.08)
#41 of 43 in Y/A (8.8)

These aren’t just bad numbers. These are terrible numbers.

There are 32 qualifying quarterbacks.

Murray doesn’t rank in the top 32 throwing downfield, regardless of whether your definition is 10 yards, 15 yards, 20 yards, or 25 yards.

As Murray becomes one of the most talked about quarterbacks in trade discussions, it’s hard to imagine where a quarterback with a massive limitation of throwing the football downfield can become a franchise QB that actually wins meaningful games for teams.

Kyler Murray's Extensive Injury History

He’s not getting better.

He’s getting older and suffering more injuries as the years go by.

Since 2020, Murray has made it through just one of five seasons healthy.

His injury record is extensive:

2025: played only 5 of 17 games after suffering a Lisfranc-type mid-foot sprain
2023: played only 8 of 17 games due to rehabbing his prior-year ACL injury
2022: suffered a hamstring strain, missed multiple games, then tore his ACL and meniscus
2021: suffered a Grade 2 ankle sprain and missed multiple games

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/kyler-murray-deep-ball-stats-trade-analysis-2026/#


Bump.

The facts show Murray sucks at pretty much all levels of passing but especially the deep and medium throws.

As it stands he's probably the worse fit possible.

Prediction: Murray-Mania grows over the summer. KOC will not change his system. Once the games begin Murray will find some early success by going off script like Dobbs did. Defenses will adapt and bottle that up, especially because injuries and age have slowed Murray's running/scrambling ability. Murray will tease and some fans will want to resign him for a fairly large contract based on the age old yet nebulous and fanciful 'just imagine what he could do in his second season here.'

I'm not saying he will lead us to the Promised Land and he might not be a good fit for KOC's offense.

But, how do you complete 67% of your passes during your career and suck at all levels of passing?




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