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djskillz -> RE: General NHL (8/23/2011 5:17:37 PM)

So I've been meaning to ask the experts this; take on the Predators' dilemna with their 3 stars/contracts?

Keep them all? Price they're worth? Do something different?

Thoughts?




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (8/23/2011 7:09:30 PM)

Preds are at $41mil currently with a $48mil cap.
Have no idea how they'll do it, good thing is they can wait until July of 2012.
Pretty tough to not go hard after Rinne and Suter.
The Weber deal looks great because those two are there, lose either, and the luster is gone, imo.
Have no idea how these clubs keep it all together. Pretty small payroll cap in the NHL ... for a pretty big roster, imo (comparitively to other sports)
Being its their money, I keep em all, whatever it takes. [:D]
Such a crapshoot, you look at the HUGE list of FAs (non big names) available ... you have to have a ton of luck putting together a cohesive roster of pieces that all fit. (around your superstars)
Thast what makes/breaks your team, eh? Will be fun to see what they do, they are certainly primed to be good. Weber is a beast, imo.  




djskillz -> RE: General NHL (8/24/2011 10:37:30 AM)

Thanks Scott. Would you devote that much money to all 3 guys? Trade one of them? What do you do?

I don't know enough about the contract situation in the NHL, or these players' true value obviously, to know. Supposedly they have some good young guys coming, but these guys also essentially saved the franchise this past year (like the Grizzlies did in the NBA) with their playoff run. Season tickets are already at an all-time high for this year.

So what to do?




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (8/24/2011 11:16:11 AM)

You know me.. I try to pay very littel attention to that very difficult side of sport.
I don't know how they do it. So, so, so tough to balance keeping your franchise's "face" players happy, while fillign in with solid players around them.
In todays game, 3 may be too many to keep. With only a $48mil cap, most clubs are down to 2 or even 1 guy who makes big money, while your other money has to be spent wisely.
Its every clubs Catch22 .... pay for the stars the fans want, at the risk of gutting the rest fo your squad, or go with a ever-changing roster of solid-types.
I don't have the answer.
You see what it does when a huge contract or two are given out ... pressure mounts on that player, and the team, and ...... (I never thought I'd see the day Mauer got this much crap from the public) ..... so .... my answer is ... I don't have one.
As a fan, I always want a couple big horses to lead the way ... but only if the team is good. There is the problem. I'm just talking in circles ... its the toughest part fo the game, to me... how to spend your salary money. Talk about "luck" being involved.... you never know who's going to step up and who isn't.
Its also different when you talk about different parts of the countries ..... traditional-type and Canadien teams often do not want that one or two superstars, they want a solid core of performers, while areas like Cali and the Southern US (imo) .... want to see "stars". Hope that makes sense. In the end, its about sellign tickets, unfortunately.
If it takes stars to fill the house, do it. If it takes a winning team, then you may want to get two really good players for the salary of one bell cow.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General NHL (8/24/2011 12:48:54 PM)

Here's how you do it Dustin.  Step by step process.

1.  Don't bring in Doug Riseborough as GM
2.  Don't give a 5-2 figure skating center a long term contract that he hasn't earned
3.  Don't sign a goaltender to a top of the heap contract when every goalie in the system has had a top save % since the franchise started
4.  Don't go all nostalgic and bring a semi decent home boy back to the state and then cut him next year and still  have YEARS on the books for him
5.  Fill your roster with young up and coming players and don't constantly bring in vets looking for one last, overpaid contact


All of this can be accomplished by one simple rule.  Stay true to rule #1 because he's a #2.  [;)]




Corleone -> RE: General NHL (8/24/2011 1:26:57 PM)

[&:]

DR was freakin' awful. Although you left out the part about trading high draft picks for mediocre players....but I guess Fletch has a similar boner to his credit (Barker, Cam).




djskillz -> RE: General NHL (8/24/2011 4:49:56 PM)

That's all good stuff guys and I appreciate it.

I was more just looking for specific takes on these specific players and Nashville/their situation.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General NHL (8/25/2011 8:01:47 AM)

NASH was 22nd in the league in scoring and both Weber and Suter are 26 years old and top prospects as far as returns goes.  Personally, I would move one of them for a sniper.  It's gonna be tough having 3 tops earners on the D side alone. 

Just for arguments sake lets say each comes in at 5 mill (Rinne, Suter and Weber).  That's 15 million tied up on the blue line or back.   What's even worse is both Weber and Suter were near the tops on the entire roster as far as points goes.  It's great to have a high scoring Dman.  It's really bad when your 2 best all around players are those guys and they play the same game.

If it were the Wild I would want them to move Suter for a legit scoring winger.  No offense but when Erat (a nice little player) is your biggest offensive contributor....you're in a bit of trouble. 




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (8/25/2011 11:41:44 AM)

Well said Jeff




djskillz -> RE: General NHL (8/25/2011 12:14:40 PM)

That's what I was looking for. Thanks gents. I think they supposedly have a couple of studs coming in the minors (not sure; you guys would know better than me) so maybe they can replace those guys cheaply?

I plan on making it to a lot more Preds games this year; didn't make it to many last year; if you guys are ever down in Nashville, I can get us tix any time within 10 rows of the ice.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General NHL (8/25/2011 2:25:09 PM)

Nah man.  That's the beauty of hockey.  Those guys are irreplaceable usually.  The problem is having 2 of the same type guys making that much money on the blueline.   Forwards?  Oh hell yeah.  You welcome that like winning lotto numbers.  Offensive Dmen, not so much.  You have to have 1 and 2 is a luxury that you need to turn in to snipers. 

When there was no cap it wasn't an issue.  Hockey's cap is so low you've gotta be super careful.  It's why I outlined DR's glaring mistakes above.  He killed us with stupid contracts and once you have one, it's almost impossible to get rid of it easily. 




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General NHL (8/25/2011 2:29:10 PM)

Studs in the minors too?   Not so fast my friend (Lee Corso impression).  They have 2 guys in the top 50 and one is a LW.  The D prospect is lighting up the OHL in points (World Juniors too).  But he's only 5-10 170.  Mike Ellis.  He will have to get a whole lot stronger if he ever wants to sniff the NHL as a #1 pair kinda guy.  that's more like PP specialist measurements.




Stacey King -> RE: General NHL (9/6/2011 11:41:01 AM)

This day in hockey

1978: Mike Polich left the Montreal Canadiens to sign a free-agent contract with the Minnesota North Stars. The Habs received Jerry Engele as compensation. Polich, who signed with Montreal out of the University of Minnesota played primarily with the Habs farm team in Nova Scotia but in 1977 did get his name on the Cup after playing five games with the big team. When he got to Minnesota he earned himself the nickname "The Shawdow" as he re-invented himself as a defensive forward and usually drew the assignment against the other team's top lines.

1990: New Jersey Devils trade Bob Brooke to the Winnipeg Jets for Laurie Boschman. Brooke refused to report to the 'Peg and opted to retire instead. As compensation the Jets received the Devils fifth-round pick, Yan Kaminsky, who played all of one game for the Jets before being traded to the Islanders for Wayne McBean. Leafs fans will probably always remember Brooke for getting thumped by Wendel Clark during a Maple Leafs/North Stars brawl.

The Fight....Wow! Wendel Clark is scary.

[image]http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/5514/mikepolich.jpg[/image] [image]http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1087/bobbrooke.jpg[/image]




Stacey King -> RE: General NHL (9/6/2011 11:49:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

That's what I was looking for. Thanks gents. I think they supposedly have a couple of studs coming in the minors (not sure; you guys would know better than me) so maybe they can replace those guys cheaply?

I plan on making it to a lot more Preds games this year; didn't make it to many last year; if you guys are ever down in Nashville, I can get us tix any time within 10 rows of the ice.



The Preds lost their young stud when Alexander Radulov walked out and signed with the KHL in Russia 3 yrs ago.
He is a top 10 talent in the league and would be potting 35+ goals a season right now.
He may at some point come back to the NHL.




Stacey King -> RE: General NHL (9/7/2011 11:19:49 AM)

Pavol Demitra's agent confirmed that his client was one of the people to tragically die in the KHL's Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plane crash on Wednesday.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General NHL (9/7/2011 11:31:17 AM)

What a devastating day for hockey in general.   I open the Strib sports page and there is an article recanting Boogard's drug addiction and then this was there as the top headline.  WOW.  [:@]




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (9/7/2011 7:13:19 PM)

Terrible off-season.
Just brutal. Tragedy after tragedy.
Glad the local stations are talkign a lot about Demitra. Finding out he was much different off-the-ice than the perception of him was  .... another good man lost early.
Brings me back to the worst tragedy ever ... Zholtok. The Wild, in a short time, have lost some very good people that played with us.  




Pete M. -> RE: General NHL (9/7/2011 9:04:13 PM)

So so sad.




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (9/7/2011 9:08:49 PM)

The Marshall University tragedy has haunted me my entire life, I feel like this will have similar implications.
Not saying their lives are more important, but there is just something haunting about an entire team of young people being wiped out.
Interesting to hear Louie Nanne talk about he horrible conditions of the airplanes in places like that.
Years ago, he would refuse to fly on any Russian planes, he said they are notoriously awful. Hopefully this shines a light on that problem.




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (9/10/2011 8:08:41 PM)

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/6950746/khl-lokomotiv-russian-jet-crash-tens-thousands-mourn-victims

100,000 mourners. Amazing. This loss will be felt for a long long time.




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (9/16/2011 1:28:43 PM)

Fantastic article from Grantland.


The Survivor
Stu Grimson and the rash of hockey-enforcer suicides
By Chris JonesPOSTED SEPTEMBER 14, 2011 [image]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0911/grant_g_grims_576.jpg[/image]Getty Images

On Labor Day weekend, Stu Grimson drove down from Nashville — the last of eight stops he made over the course of his long and violent career in the National Hockey League — to Panama City, Fla. There, he threw himself into the surf, a short vacation from his new professional life as a lawyer and an occasional hockey commentator. It's been nearly 10 years since he last traded punches: On December 12, 2001, he fought the last of hundreds of fights, a messy heavyweight bout against Sandy McCarthy of the New York Rangers.1011 It's been so long hardly anybody calls him The Grim Reaper anymore.
One of the best of a golden age of fighters, Grimson — now A. Stuart Grimson, Of Counsel, for the firm of Kay, Griffin, Enkema, & Colbert — fought virtually every big-name enforcer in the league, most of them more than once. He had epic, bloody battles with Bob Probert, Rob Ray, Georges Laraque, Peter Worrell, Krzysztof Oliwa, Rocky Thompson — names that hockey fans will forever attach to unforgettable images of taped wrists and fight straps.
In December 1998, Grimson fought a young Prairie kid and member of the Colorado Avalanche named Wade Belak. It was only the ninth fight of Belak's career; like Grimson before him, he was trying to establish a reputation for fearlessness, for toughness. Like Grimson, Belak had no illusions about what was expected of him and his career. He understood the perils that he faced, the potential costs of his profession. Both men had done their math. Maybe they wouldn't be the players they had dreamed that they might be, but they would be players, at least.
Two weeks ago, Belak, 35, arthritic and facing down his first winter without professional hockey, hanged himself in a Toronto hotel room. His was a stunning death for a thousand reasons, but not least because, on the surface, he was buoyant and funny, a happy presence so long as he wasn't trying to fill you in.
He was also the third young man, each of whom had made his living by fighting on ice, to suffer a self-administered death this summer. Two weeks earlier, Rick Rypien, who had been signed to protect the reborn Winnipeg Jets this season, died of an apparent suicide in his Alberta home. In May, Derek Boogaard, one of the most feared fighters in the league, died of an accidental overdose of painkillers and alcohol in the middle of a post-concussion haze.
With the added loss of some of its best players to concussions — Sidney Crosby's return remains doubtful, Marc Savard won't play again this season and might be gone for good — hockey feels as though it has reached a kind of vanishing point, a horizon beyond which no one can see. Changes appear destined — "These tragic events cannot be ignored," the league and the NHLPA said in a joint statement — but nobody seems to know what, exactly, to make of the game's tragic summer. Nobody knows where we go from here.
Stu Grimson seems like a good person to ask.
"It's deeply sad," he says over the phone from Florida, "but I'm not sure these three men should be put in the same basket. They're different people who had the same role. I'll be honest with you — it might be the hardest job in professional sports. I know I had a hard time playing that role. The threat of losing, the physical suffering, the humiliation of defeat — none of that is easy.
"But I loved my life. I had a ball. And then leaving …" he says, his voice lost beneath the sound of the wind and the waves.
On the ice, enforcers breed fear; off the ice, they're more likely to inspire affection. They're usually the best guys in the room.
Laraque is now the deputy leader of Canada's Green Party. Oliwa used to unwind after games by taking his telescope into his backyard and counting stars. Grimson graduated from law school.
Boogaard, Rypien, and Belak, too, were each well liked and respected. They will be unfairly lumped together because of their deaths rather than their lives — they were different players in different circumstances — but the common theme after their departures was how much each of them was loved.
"Man for man, the guys I fought were bright, outgoing, good people," Grimson says. "A lot of them also happened to be from Western Canada."
There, the three lost fighters can be more truly linked. They shared the same geography. Boogaard and Belak were from Saskatoon, with its wide streets and bronze statue of Gordie Howe, his elbows up. Rypien was born and died in tiny Crowsnest Pass, Alberta. (Grimson is from British Columbia, played his junior hockey in Regina, and began his education at the University of Manitoba.) They were all Big Sky kids.
As sentimental as it might sound, Westerners really are shaped by their landscape. The expanses of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and eastern Alberta, giving way first to folds, then hills, then mountains …
"Living there makes you humble," Grimson says. "You spend every day of your life humbled by nature."
That's why Western Canada is an enforcer factory, why it continues to produce these men so well versed in the lost farm-boy arts. Being a hockey fighter requires bravery and balance and fast hands and a strong chin. But perhaps more than anything else, it requires humility. It requires reconciliation, an understanding of the limits placed on every one of us.
Grimson was pretty handy as a junior. In his last season in Regina, he had 56 points in 71 games. (He also accumulated 248 minutes in penalties.) But after he was drafted by the Calgary Flames, the physical winger saw a different future opening in front of him: He wasn't quite good enough to play in the NHL unless he brought to it a very particular set of skills.
At first he resisted. "I wasn't comfortable with the idea," he says. Grimson chose instead to go to university for two years, where he earned his first credits toward a degree in economics — as well, he says, as the maturity to accept his fate. "I don't know how to explain it," he says, "except to say that I grew up a bit. I picked up the emotional equipment I needed to assume that role."
Perhaps not coincidentally, Grimson also found religion around the same time. Throughout his career, the church gave him an outlet, a community far removed from hockey's sometimes pitiless corners where he could share his secret despairs. His faith, like the Prairies, also humbled him.
"I finally understood that I needed to release the grip on my life," he says. "If God created me, and He also created the circumstances in which I live, then how I fit is not worth worrying about. These were the gifts I was given, and this is what I'm supposed to do. So I did it."
In an interview with the Toronto Star, Belak said something similar: "On nights you knew you had to fight, there were nerves, you never slept the night before. But you dealt with it or you didn't. You don't really get over it, you just go out and do your job."
That's how each of them was able to sit on the bench for much of a game, called to action only when someone needed to get punched. That's how they reasoned with their violence — by turning it into something selfless, the sacrifice that they would make for their teammates so that they could do what they might do. That's how they found their temporary peace when they looked across the locker room at the flashy forwards and their collections of significant pucks while they pushed their own swollen hands into buckets of ice.
In Grimson's first NHL game, back in 1988, he tallied a single statistic: a five-minute fighting major for banging heads with Buffalo's Kevin Maguire.
Belak got his first fight, against Daniel Lacroix, out of the way nearly as quickly.
That was it.
Like Boogaard, like Rypien, like so many fighters before them, they had found their release.
Unlike the others, Grimson returned. He made it back alive. He's made it to university classrooms in Manitoba and next in Memphis, and to the offices of Kay, Griffin, Enkema & Colbert, and now to the sunshine coast in Panama City. His life reads like a Mitch Albom book.
"Hockey was one of the most enjoyable parts of my life," Grimson says. "It was a lot of fun, I met a lot of good people, and I left the game substantially intact.
"But I would be naïve to sit here on this beach and tell you that this is the end of the story."
Grimson has felt these three recent deaths, most especially Belak's because of their shared Nashville connection and time on the ice together. But he felt another one more: last summer's death of Bob Probert, at 45, the victim of a heart attack on his boat. For Grimson, there is no better mirror: He and Probert were born the same year, drafted the same year, and fought each other an incredible 12 times over the course of their parallel careers. "The only difference was he was a much better player," Grimson says.
Grimson can only pray there's one more difference. Probert died with clear evidence that he had sustained chronic traumatic encephalopathy. He had shadows on his brain from his many fights; his future, had he lived, might have included dementia, memory loss, and severe depression. And there's no real reason for Grimson to believe that he somehow escaped without the same damage.
"It really got my attention," Grimson says. "I could very easily be walking around with the same condition. I expect to live a long, happy, healthy life. But if at some later stage, if it turns out that my profession led to the premature deterioration of my health, I'm sure I'll tell you I have regrets. Yeah, I think that's fair to say."
When Grimson stepped off the ice for what would prove the last time, after that fight against Sandy McCarthy and that game against the Rangers, he had no idea that everything had changed.
He'd fought the game before against Laraque. Then he fought McCarthy. Then came the team flight back to Nashville — and that's when Grimson felt the first waves of sickness, the first unmistakable heaviness in his head. He told the team trainer and was scratched. They thought his symptoms might clear in two weeks. But then the weeks turned into months, and the months turned into more than a year, and by the time his symptoms had vanished, Grimson was gone from the game, too.
"I think I was as well prepared for my post-hockey career as anybody," Grimson says, "and it still knocked me on my heels."
It's impossible to know what Belak was thinking in his hotel room; none of us will ever really know what it was that chased him into that corner. But he had made plain his love for the game and his sadness at leaving it. Those first few months and years after retirement are punishing for athletes, and it's more punishing the longer they stayed. They still feel in their hearts as though they are capable of playing — they only just did, the day before last — but they're not out there anymore. And there's such a fine line between humility and invisibility. It's such a short journey between found and lost. The cheering, the money, the nights on the road, and the card games in the back of the bus, they're all gone, just like that, after so many years of their having provided anchor. Giants disappear; they become golfers or sit on the beach. When even a man like Stu Grimson — a man who had so carefully built a second future for himself — suffers from the game's absence, it's not hard to imagine what it might be like for others without the same graces.
The most brutal thing about all of this — about these terrible deaths and brain damage and our fears of unknowable ends — is that in some ways, there's no escaping any of it. Nothing can be done today to save the lost. They can't be rescued retroactively. Axons are sheared forever. Stu Grimson is smart and honest enough to know there's nothing he can do but hope: "My understanding," he says, "is that there's no way of knowing, and there's no remedy even if we did know, so I'll just live the best life that I can until what comes comes." The only futures that can be changed are those of the players who haven't yet played. They're the only ones who might benefit from our corrections, whatever they might be. For everyone else, it's too late. There are only so many possible paths.
"I think in every stage in your career or your life, all you can do is take honest stock of your situation," Grimson says finally. "You have to decide if you can still contribute, whether this is something you might still pursue, or whether it's time to walk away. Those are really the only choices we ever have. Pursue it or walk away."




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (9/20/2011 11:42:38 AM)

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/11305/can-matt-cooke-really-change-his-game

I'm leaning towards .... NO
Once an idiot ....




Stacey King -> RE: General NHL (9/20/2011 12:00:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/11305/can-matt-cooke-really-change-his-game

I'm leaning towards .... NO
Once an idiot ....


He has no respect for the careers of fellow players.
Given his body of work, his future suspensions from now on should go...
30 games..
60 games..
90 games..

for each suspend-able incident.




SoMnFan -> RE: General NHL (9/20/2011 12:05:56 PM)

Well said.
Thats where I was going.
You nailed it ... most "agitators" still get respect because they DO care if they ruin the game, or someone's life.
Guys like Cooke and Avery have made it clear they don't care about that.




Corleone -> RE: General NHL (10/6/2011 1:48:05 PM)

One of the greatest stories I've ever read, even if it does involve Nucks fans.

http://deadspin.com/5807325/the-canucks-fan-who-drove-1000-miles-for-a-game-partied-with-the-owner-drank-with-beautiful-women-nearly-died-and-got-comped-for-game-5




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