RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (Full Version)

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panndder -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/3/2011 1:32:42 PM)

Ahanmisi will be the backup point guard next year, and I don't really have a problem with that. Andre Hollins should be an immediate upgrade.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/3/2011 1:34:24 PM)

IF Hollins doesn't back out on his committment, once Tubby leaves.[:D]



djskillz -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/3/2011 1:40:59 PM)

Probably end up transferring to Iowa State with everyone else.

They should be pretty darn competitive next year. Hoiberg must be a heck of a recruiter or they're offering them something other programs don't.



JT2 -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/3/2011 10:41:29 PM)

Hoffarber is suited to play PG, like Pat Williams is suited to play CB, but it does kind of put Nolen in perspective.

As a PG:
Nolen: 8.4 Pts, 3.6 RB, 3.7 Ast, 2.1 To, 2.4 Stl, 33 FG%, 30 3Pt%, 5.5 FTA
Hoff: 13.2 Pts, 3.9 RB, 3.7 Ast, 2.8 To, .7 Stl, 37 FG%, 37 3Pt%, 3.2 FTA

Nolen is obviously better defensively. The slowest, most unathletic player on the team and push him into the PG role, and he out performs your normal starting PG, your better than average PG, your poor shooter but good at everything else PG? Nolen couldn't start on a couple of Atlantic Sun Conference teams. Oh, and just think if Hoffarber had the advantage of dishing an assist to Hoffarber.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/6/2011 10:48:45 AM)

Among today's 5 ?s


Are Tubby's tactics working? 
I don't think so. He's called out his most important player and captain. I don't see a team that's motivated by Smith's approach. I see a squad that's intimidated by it.
Instead of executing down the stretch, they're freezing. After the loss at Northwestern Wednesday, Smith said his players were "scared."
His style could be the culprit. They lack the confidence necessary to perform when the game is on the line.



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/6/2011 4:37:55 PM)

No one cared today (about another crappy loss) ?
Apathy has set in .... what a shameful end to a promising season.



David Levine -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/6/2011 4:55:04 PM)

Can't believe that down 2 with 30 seconds left, a Samson 3pt attempt was what we wanted...



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/6/2011 5:00:01 PM)

At least lately, they're taking turns (with the unexpected, puzzling, last-second shot failures)



Pete M. -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/6/2011 9:25:23 PM)

This team is 2-9 without Al Nolen.













[sm=popcorn.gif][sm=popcorn.gif][sm=popcorn.gif]



Mr. Ed -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/7/2011 8:38:59 AM)

Tubby expects more from his juniors and senior that can play.

No one steps up.

A fan yells for them to move on offense.


Sounds and looks like some round pegs don't fit some square holes.

Tubby set this team up this way. And refused to change his offense.

And this is what results.

Now they're still too inexperienced where it matters.

Did he really think he could go with 7 guys(counting head-case Joseph) 35-40 minutes a night all year, injury-free??

The fast start can be attributed, in part,  to all the experienced guys on hand,and the tons of minutes.

but the cracks in the defense on the perimeter started being severely exposed with the Virginia debacle.

Other teams adjusted. Tubby did not. Not on offense, not on defense. Not getting the kids enough experience early.


and what do you have? A terrible 6-12 big 10 season.



panndder -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/7/2011 9:16:53 AM)

Regardless of the debate on Nolen, not having a reliable point guard really hurts. Furthermore this team is full of guys who are full of potential but none are really living up to it outside of Mbakwe and perhaps Hoffarber. If every guy on this roster hit (or approached) their ceiling they'd be in the Final Four talk. Instead it seems like they've all shown only brief flashes of what they are capable of. So frustrating.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/7/2011 9:20:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

Regardless of the debate on Nolen, not having a reliable point guard really hurts. Furthermore this team is full of guys who are full of potential but none are really living up to it outside of Mbakwe and perhaps Hoffarber. If every guy on this roster hit (or approached) their ceiling they'd be in the Final Four talk. Instead it seems like they've all shown only brief flashes of what they are capable of. So frustrating.


Spot on.

Especially the potential part.

They just don't get it done consistently. Or, sometimes, at all.



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/7/2011 9:41:01 AM)

Yep, no argument there.
Dis
A
Pointment
all around.



Dave E -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/7/2011 2:26:18 PM)

Debacle of a season.

I do not think they should fire Tubby, but this season absolutely raises an eyebrow. Can't get the thought of those "set" plays coming out of timeouts, where the team looks totally lost.



JT2 -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/7/2011 10:29:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

Regardless of the debate on Nolen, not having a reliable point guard really hurts. Furthermore this team is full of guys who are full of potential but none are really living up to it outside of Mbakwe and perhaps Hoffarber. If every guy on this roster hit (or approached) their ceiling they'd be in the Final Four talk. Instead it seems like they've all shown only brief flashes of what they are capable of. So frustrating.


If every player on every team lived up to their potential......

The ceiling isn't all that high on some of these guys.  Sampson and Iverson are almost not even basketball players.  Williams may possibly know less about his own game than any player I have seen in quite some time.  And some people actually think he'll get drafted if he comes out???  Not a chance in hell.  I feel for Mbakwe.  It would be nice to see him on a legit, smart basketball team.  Hoffarber got the most out of what he has.
I do like the freshman though. 

End of the day, you have to be able to shoot.  Three's and Free's kill this team. 

BTW, "Aaron Craft is starting to get it"???  All Freshman team and All Defensive team.  And according to the all-knowing Jimmy Jackson, the top guards in conference said that Craft was the best defender they faced all season.  Next season he's a 15 ppg, 6 assist guy.



JT2 -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/7/2011 11:56:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

Debacle of a season.

I do not think they should fire Tubby, but this season absolutely raises an eyebrow. Can't get the thought of those "set" plays coming out of timeouts, where the team looks totally lost.


Not only that, but Tubby seems to be still living in Lexington. 14-6 lead on Penn State, seven minutes in, and he goes all bench except for Hoffarber?  He doesn't have a bench like that.  It's almost like he doesn't want a lead.

Under 4:00, close game, Mbakwe on the bench?  And why in the world does Sampson think he has the green light, early on the clock, to launch an air ball three?  I'm no Tubby Smith, but Sampson would do that exactly once on my team. 



Jim Frenette -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 9:37:29 AM)

How many players were Tubby's recruits when he won the National Championship at KU? Were Prince or Rondo recruited by him?



djskillz -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 11:02:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

How many players were Tubby's recruits when he won the National Championship at KU? Were Prince or Rondo recruited by him?


Not a single big contributer for them was a "Tubby" guy. All of their key players were sophomores or older. He won with Pitino's guys, as they won 2 years prior, and were in the finals the year before he got there. Though he does get some credit; they lost a couple of key guys from the previous years' team (Mercer/Anderson) and still made it back.

Never made it past the Elite 8 again there and didn't recruit all that great for a Kentucky coach either.



Jim Frenette -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 12:02:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

How many players were Tubby's recruits when he won the National Championship at KU? Were Prince or Rondo recruited by him?


Not a single big contributer for them was a "Tubby" guy. All of their key players were sophomores or older. He won with Pitino's guys, as they won 2 years prior, and were in the finals the year before he got there. Though he does get some credit; they lost a couple of key guys from the previous years' team (Mercer/Anderson) and still made it back.

Never made it past the Elite 8 again there and didn't recruit all that great for a Kentucky coach either.


Thanks. That was what I was looking for, how his recruits do. Next year will be all his at Minn



panndder -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 12:45:31 PM)

Recruiting is not (at least directly) his problem. Nolen/Hoffarber/White/Mbakwe/Sampson with a bench of Joseph/Carter/Walker contends for the conference title this year, without question.



djskillz -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 12:53:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

Recruiting is not (at least directly) his problem. Nolen/Hoffarber/White/Mbakwe/Sampson with a bench of Joseph/Carter/Walker contends for the conference title this year, without question.


Ya.

But recruiting was an issue for him at Kentucky. It was a big part of the reason he was eventually forced out.



panndder -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 1:11:32 PM)

Reasons why Tubby Smith was unpopular at Kentucky:

1. Unrealistic expectations of fans in an era of increasing parity
2. Skin color
...
4820. Part of team, rather than entire team, was made up of McDonalds All-Americans



djskillz -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 1:26:50 PM)

Disagree. And I really don't think race had anything to do with it.

The expectations are obviously very high at Kentucky....and they should be. They're a top 5 historical program. You coach there for a decade and the only time you make it past the Elite 8 is in your first year, without your players, and you don't get many elite-level recruits, and you probably deserve to get forced out.



djskillz -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 1:30:42 PM)

And I should add; it's not like he had to build the program back up or something. Kentucky was arguably the best program in the entire program when he took it over.

When he left, they were probably around 20-25 and finished with 2nd rd defeats both of his final 2 years.



panndder -> RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) (3/8/2011 1:41:53 PM)

I guess it's just a matter of perspective. I think a coach can really only control if they run a bad program, a mediocre program, or a good one. It's up to the players on the floor to execute and things like injuries and defections are beyond a coach's control. Tubby had plenty of Top 10 recruiting classes at Kentucky, but even that is a big misguided because a coach needs to find the players he feels will best help them in their system. How have Bo Ryan's last 4 classes been ranked? Many have them going to the elite eight or final four, yet on paper he's got a batch of mediocre recruits by high-major standards.

I don't think most Kentucky fans would have a hard time embracing a black coach who brings championships every other season, but I think that when things get tough it makes a BIG difference for a lot of them. There are plenty of reports of racist comments on local talk radio shows and elsewhere late in Smith's tenure there.



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