RE:Mike Vick case (Full Version)

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Guest -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 9:22:22 PM)

[quote="Steven JL"][quote="John Childress"]Go beyond the Vick case Why did we need daily updates on Anna Nicole, Barry Bonds, etc. Ask an average Joe to name 10 congressmen and the fed chair Ask them to explain monetary policy or the devaluation of the dollar versus the Euro[/quote] The public is apathetic and uninformed. Was talking about this over dinner with some friends recently and stumbled on the following concept. Information-based voting. Of course it would never fly but I wonder what type of leaders we would elect if voters had to take a general information, government, and policy quiz in the election booth. Whatever your score is that is the number of points that apply to the canidate of your choice. Score a 98 and 0.98 of your vote goes to your choice. Score a 70 and .70 points get awarded. Can't name the three branches of government, or the current President, or the number of Supreme Court justices, or where social security money comes from? Your 2% score will give 0.02 points to your candidate. I'd just love political campaigns where the politicians had to do everything they could to get the votes of the 80 and 90 %ers by campaigning on real issues. Ignoring the things that influence the 10%ers would only elevate our political discourse. Not to mention it might encourage more education on these issues. Yes the devil would be in the details of what exactly is on the test, which would make it impossible to implement, and of course it likely isn't Constitutional (though I'm not sure apathy and stupidity are Constitutionally protected classes). And no doubt some would claim this is racist or biased against non-english native speaking citizens, or kids from poor educational backgrounds, etc, etc. But wouldn't a more informed electorate - and politicians who need to cater to them instead of cheap sound bites - be a good thing?[/quote] **************************************************** I like the idea. I also think some of this could be accomplished simply by eliminating political ads on television. Debates only and not just for the 2 parties.




DeLain -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 9:34:09 PM)

[quote="DeLain"]Anybody see Bill Bellamy's intro about Michael Vick on Last Comic Standing last night? Freakin hilarious.[/quote] Here is an excerpt...they will have the video on NBC later in the week... Let's talk about Michael Vick..... Michael Vick is worth over a 100 million dollars and he will give everything...everything..away for dog fighting. How Stupid could you be? You want to get white people riled up? Mess with the animals! White people don't play when it comes to animals! You see a whale on the beach? Who there? White people. saying "Oh you all right? Are you OK? We are going to get you back to your people..don't worry" While you are at the zoo...who's at the cage? White People. saying "How are you tiger?" Don't mess with animals if you don't want to get white people riled up! I don't understand Michael Vick. Let me tell you how serious white people are about animals...especially dogs... White people will pull the plug on their own momma, but save their dog. Like "Momma you had a great life...." but "Skippy, you're going to get a new hip...you are going to live..."




Lynn G. -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 9:37:09 PM)

[quote="Chicken Legs"] But, I can't tell you what I pay for a case of Rolling Rocks. Go figure.[/quote] That's because you don't pay for it - you just keep winning it in bets. :itsgood:




Chicken Legs -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 10:39:34 PM)

[quote="Lynn Garthwaite"][quote="Chicken Legs"] But, I can't tell you what I pay for a case of Rolling Rocks. Go figure.[/quote] That's because you don't pay for it - you just keep winning it in bets. :itsgood:[/quote] Lynn: You might have a point with your last post? BTW, who elese lost to me (regarding Lowber? Chris Olsen? Fargo? Toby?) p.s. I'm really liking this 'Todd Mallet' guy (NOT that kinda 'like')....Todd plans on paying off his bet rather quick!




Lynn G. -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 10:53:18 PM)

I was thinking that Chris Olson's bet was the same as Todd's, but I might be missing the finer details. I think Todd should ship the stuff from Canada. :D




John Childress -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 11:16:34 PM)

[quote="Chicken Legs"][quote="John Childress"]Go beyond the Vick case Why did we need daily updates on Anna Nicole, Barry Bonds, etc. Ask an average Joe to name 10 congressmen and the fed chair Ask them to explain monetary policy or the devaluation of the dollar versus the Euro[/quote] ATTN: Johnny C... I consider myself an ordinary 'Joe.' I put my pants on the same way the guy on the street does! I can name 20 U.S. Senators (Dems & Repubs & Independents), 10 congress persons, and the Fed Chairman. But, I can't tell you what I pay for a case of Rolling Rocks. Go figure.[/quote] If there is one thing that I can say about you without any doubt - YOU ARE NO ORDINARY JOE! I knew Ordinary Joe and you, sir, are no ordinary joe.




Chicken Legs -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 11:24:40 PM)

[quote="Lynn Garthwaite"]I was thinking that Chris Olson's bet was the same as Todd's, but I might be missing the finer details. I think Todd should ship the stuff from Canada. :D[/quote] Lynn: However Todd M. wants to get me the Rolling Rock, works for me. As for Chris Olson, I don't think he actually bet me anything....more like bragging rights, I think? Did Toby,Fargo, or Johhny Childress bet me?????




Todd M -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 1:46:59 AM)

you're wasting your time with Erica's protegé It's the irrefutable logic of the "I'm smarter, you're not." pointless I'm really liking this 'Todd Mallet' guy (NOT that kinda 'like')....Todd plans on paying off his bet rather quick! Oh the highs and lows of my days around here. Thanks for the pick me up Thom. :cheers:




Jim Frenette -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 1:58:08 AM)

[quote="Chicken Legs"][quote="Lynn Garthwaite"]I was thinking that Chris Olson's bet was the same as Todd's, but I might be missing the finer details. I think Todd should ship the stuff from Canada. :D[/quote] Lynn: However Todd M. wants to get me the Rolling Rock, works for me. As for Chris Olson, I don't think he actually bet me anything....more like bragging rights, I think? Did Toby,Fargo, or Johhny Childress bet me?????[/quote] Don't drag me into it? You're just looking for more free beer. :nodding:




Todd M -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 2:13:14 AM)

WELCOME AT RAINBOW BRIDGE by Alexander Theodore, Bouvier, Fourth Year Resident On the morning of September 11, 2001, there was an unprecedented amount of activity at the Rainbow Bridge. Decisions had to be made. They had to be made quickly. And, they were. An issue, not often addressed here, is the fact that many residents really have no loved one for whom to wait. Think of the pups who lived and died in hideous puppy mills. No one on earth loved or protected them. What about the many who spent unhappy lives tied in backyards? And, the ones who were abused. Who are they to wait for? We don't talk about that much up here. We share our loved ones as they arrive, happy to do so. But we all know there is nothing like having your very own person who thinks you are the most special pup in the Heavens. Last Tuesday morning a request rang out for pups not waiting for specific persons to volunteer for special assignment... An eager, curious crowd surged excitedly forward, each pup wondering what the assignment would be. They were told by a solemn voice that unexpectedly, all at once, thousands of loving people had left Earth long before they were ready. All the pups, as all pups do, felt the humans' pain deep in their own hearts. Without hearing more, there was a clamoring among them - "May I have one to comfort?" "I'll take two, I have a big heart." "I have been saving kisses forever." One after another they came forward begging for assignment. One cozy-looking fluffy pup hesitantly asked, "Are there any children coming? I would be very comforting for a child 'cause I'm soft and squishy and I always wanted to be hugged." A group of Dalmatians came forward asking to meet the FireFighters and be their friends. The larger working breeds offered to greet the Police Officers and make them feel at home. Little dogs volunteered to do what they do best, cuddle and kiss. Dogs who on Earth had never had a kind word or a pat on the head, stepped forward and said, "I will love any human who needs love." Then all the dogs, wherever on Earth they originally came from, rushed to the Rainbow Bridge and stood waiting, overflowing with love to share - each tail wagging an American Flag. Dogs are man's best friend because they help us achieve one of the purest forms of love there is. Go ahead and talk about war, murder, rape, drunk driving and everything that people do to hurt and kill people, you don't see me in the Politcal threads talking about Mike Vick do you? Funny that there are more posts here that mention the war than there are posts in the actual War on Iraq thread. But I do not appreciate comments that try and make me look like the bad guy for following this story as damn well far as I please. If you don't have any comments that add anything to the discussion don't bother trying to platform over me. Post somewhere else. This is page 17 of this discussion and I won't appoligize for posting in it.




DeLain -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 7:34:21 AM)

It is OK Todd. No need to apologize when you have a true conviction in your heart. Although you might be coming off as a true extremist now to some. Personally I always try to see both sides of the argument though, and see where each are coming from. Although I tend to slightly lean towards one side or the other, it is interesting to argue the other side because then it can soften my own stance and thus accept that other people who come from different walks of life have different views on the world, even though they might not be my own.




Easy E -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 8:41:53 AM)

[quote="Jeff Jesser"]Another key factor is bond people have with dogs. Most of the stuff going over seas and to "other people" don't hit home with common Americans because they don't know them and never will. Now an innocent dog...."Hell, that could be my little fido"... I admit, I sometimes fall to that line of thinking. My wife and I talk about this case almost every night. We get swept up in this thinking that it's worse because people, normally, have a choice and make decisions that get them in to terrible situations. The dogs don't. They were 100% innocent and got put in to a terrible situation by a "terrible man".[/quote] Very good points. I also think sometimes we don't let things hit home because it's too painful to consider. Killing dogs is upsetting and you can work up a feeling of outrage over it, get it out, and feel like maybe something can be done about it. Thousands upon thousands of people being killed every year by drunk driving, or thousands of innocent Iraqi babies being murdered, is mind numbing and can make you feel like nothing can or will change. And that can lead to, well, not much being done about it. I am not trying to take away anyone's ability to work up a good bit of hate and bile for Michael Vick. I've said many times what he's done is despicable. Todd, I'm sorry you feel like people are trying to make you feel guilty. I don't really think that's the point. I'm also sorry if you thihk other topics and how they relate to the Vick story, from a societal, legal, media, etc perspective aren't fair game, but I think they are and I think they're worthy of discussion.




Todd M -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 12:22:59 PM)

Yeah, that didn't come out exactly right as I had spent all day stewing over what Dan wrote. I took it personal becuase I never had an easy time getting involved in other debates at the strib. And here I am in this one with strong opinions and yet it's "useless" to talk to me. I'm not looking to put a cap on where this discussion goes, I just feel that some posts come off as 'shut up, there's worse things in the world going on'.




John Childress -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 1:30:36 PM)

[quote="Easy E"][quote="Jeff Jesser"]Another key factor is bond people have with dogs. Most of the stuff going over seas and to "other people" don't hit home with common Americans because they don't know them and never will. Now an innocent dog...."Hell, that could be my little fido"... I admit, I sometimes fall to that line of thinking. My wife and I talk about this case almost every night. We get swept up in this thinking that it's worse because people, normally, have a choice and make decisions that get them in to terrible situations. The dogs don't. They were 100% innocent and got put in to a terrible situation by a "terrible man". Very good points. I also think sometimes we don't let things hit home because it's too painful to consider. Killing dogs is upsetting and you can work up a feeling of outrage over it, get it out, and feel like maybe something can be done about it. Thousands upon thousands of people being killed every year by drunk driving, or thousands of innocent Iraqi babies being murdered, is mind numbing and can make you feel like nothing can or will change. And that can lead to, well, not much being done about it. I am not trying to take away anyone's ability to work up a good bit of hate and bile for Michael Vick. I've said many times what he's done is despicable. Todd, I'm sorry you feel like people are trying to make you feel guilty. I don't really think that's the point. I'm also sorry if you thihk other topics and how they relate to the Vick story, from a societal, legal, media, etc perspective aren't fair game, but I think they are and I think they're worthy of discussion. It is a shame that we feel helpless to solve real issues
quote:

Dogs are man's best friend because they help us achieve one of the purest forms of love there is.
No, that would be love you have for raising children.




Guest -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 2:21:33 PM)

[quote="Lynn Garthwaite"]Pete C. - you could read the old Strib politics thread to see how outraged many of us are about the Iraqi children who have been killed. Don't spend another minute worried that we're not sufficiently enraged about that entire affair.[/quote] ************************************************************** I'm sure many people are outraged. My point is the lack of coverage. I have yet to see any media outlet provide even an estimate of how many Iraqi children have been killed by our bombs and bullets.




El Duderino -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/31/2007 6:18:03 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]
quote:

Dogs are man's best friend because they help us achieve one of the purest forms of love there is.
No, that would be love you have for raising children. In fairness, he did say "one of", not "the".




Chris Olson -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/1/2007 6:16:11 AM)

[quote="Chicken Legs"][quote="Lynn Garthwaite"]I was thinking that Chris Olson's bet was the same as Todd's, but I might be missing the finer details. I think Todd should ship the stuff from Canada. :D[/quote] Lynn: However Todd M. wants to get me the Rolling Rock, works for me. As for Chris Olson, I don't think he actually bet me anything....more like bragging rights, I think? Did Toby,Fargo, or Johhny Childress bet me?????[/quote] Ha! Brag away, Thom...put me in my place o prognosticator of reknown... ;) Of course, if you ever make it up to Saratoga, I would be thrilled to buy you some Rocks and talk some Vikings! I am in the book... :beer:




Chicken Legs -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/1/2007 7:59:21 PM)

[quote="Chris Olson"][quote="Chicken Legs"][quote="Lynn Garthwaite"]I was thinking that Chris Olson's bet was the same as Todd's, but I might be missing the finer details. I think Todd should ship the stuff from Canada. :D[/quote] Lynn: However Todd M. wants to get me the Rolling Rock, works for me. As for Chris Olson, I don't think he actually bet me anything....more like bragging rights, I think? Did Toby,Fargo, or Johhny Childress bet me?????[/quote] Ha! Brag away, Thom...put me in my place o prognosticator of reknown... ;) Of course, if you ever make it up to Saratoga, I would be thrilled to buy you some Rocks and talk some Vikings! I am in the book... :beer:[/quote] Chris: When I come to Saratoga Springs, NY, I'll look you up. You can then treat! :beer:




Duane Sampson -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/7/2007 1:55:54 PM)

WR Ferguson Defends the Pit Bull Breed By John Holler Posted Sep 6, 2007 Vikings WR Robert Ferguson has long been a fan of pit bulls, the breed of dog that is surrounded by controversy lately after Falcons QB Michael Vick pleaded guilty to charges associated with dog-fighting. Ferguson has three young daughters and five pet pit bulls, making his words of defense to Viking Update very personal. Heading into this weekend’s regular-season opener, much of the national discussion of the game will center not so much of who is playing, but who isn’t. The Falcons were supposed to be led by electrifying quarterback Michael Vick. But, when a raid earlier this year exposed an elaborate pit bull dog-fighting operation, Vick’s career and his life were dramatically changed and the insidious world of dog fighting got national attention and a face was put to the crime. Vikings wide receiver Robert Ferguson said he was saddened more than most by the stunning news as it unfolded because Ferguson is not only a dog lover, but has been a strong advocate of education concerning pit bulls. As a lifelong pit bull owner, Ferguson has become one of the voices speaking out in defense of the animal that he believes has been given too much blame in the dog-fighting world and labeled as natural born killers. “I’ve been involved with dogs since I was a kid,” Ferguson said. “My (advocacy) began with the kennel I bought my dogs from. Their motto is ‘Punish the Deed, Not the Breed.’ I’ve just been doing my part off of what they started. It’s not the dog that is the problem. It is the people that raise them.” Pit bulls have long been viewed as vicious animals, but Ferguson said the perception doesn’t match the reality. There are dogs that are just as powerful if not more so, as well as dogs that are trained to attack people. Yet the pit bull is always at the center of controversy in that regard. “People will say that pit bulls are dangerous because they’re so powerful,” Ferguson said. “But there are a lot of powerful dogs. Look at the Rottweiler. It’s just as strong. The dog that has the most stinging bite are police dogs – German Shepherds. They have a more piercing bite because of their teeth and will go after people. Pit bulls have a bite that locks on, but they don’t naturally go after people.” Ferguson, who has three small daughters and five pet pit bulls, said he doesn’t fear for the safety of his children because pit bulls are more naturally protective of people. Their reputation came from their original breeding as “bull-baiters” – the act of the dog biting a bull on the nose and bringing it down. For fans of the classic children’s series “The Little Rascals,” their pet dog Petie was a pit bull and the Our Gang kids would routinely roll around and play with the dog. That is the more standard real-life view of pit bulls, Ferguson said. While they can appear fearsome to many, the violence they display is rarely directed toward people unless they perceive their owner is in danger. “It has always been an aggressive dog, but never aggressive toward people,” Ferguson said. “In order to fight a dog, you have to be in the cage with it when it’s training. You don’t hear about people getting attacked by their dog while they’re training it, because it just isn’t natural for them to be aggressive toward people. They’ve always been people-friendly and protective of people.” While Vick was the first big-name celebrity to get caught up in dog-fighting, Ferguson said those who travel in pit bull circles have known the extent to which it exists for decades. It’s only recently that the light has been shined on the business of fighting dogs and that the spotlight it has brought may help bring an end to the barbaric “sport” if those involved know that there are serious ramifications to the carnage. “The good that will come out of this is that more people will be aware that this goes on everywhere,” Ferguson said. “It’s not a color issue. Black people do it. White people do it. Chinese people do it. And it’s not a ‘down South’ thing either. It happens in every state in the country. It’s not restricted to one culture or one part of the country. Hopefully, this incident will bring about a change for the better.” Ferguson has used the opportunity to talk to kids at boys and girls clubs about the dangers of dog fighting and that the owners are the ones that should be held accountable. While he may never convince a large segment of the population that the pit bull can be a loveable, loyal breed of dog, the Vick situation can provide lessons to young people before they lose their way. “I think the government got their point across that you will be punished to the full extent of the law if you’re involved in this,” Ferguson said. “They made that point loud and clear with Michael Vick. I’m not sure we’re ever going to know the full story of what happened and what his involvement was, but the one thing we do know is that you are judged by the people you associate with. If kids can come away with that – you can be guilty by association and you have to watch what kind of people you have around you – there can be some good that comes out of all of this.”




John Childress -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/7/2007 3:19:05 PM)

"“People will say that pit bulls are dangerous because they’re so powerful,” Ferguson said. “But there are a lot of powerful dogs. Look at the Rottweiler. It’s just as strong. " And I would get rid of both breeds




Troy Newell -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/7/2007 6:05:17 PM)

No dog should ever be eliminated.




Jeff Jesser -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/7/2007 6:09:30 PM)

And dolphins too because they kill sharks. Oh, and then we have to eliminate sharks because they kills seals. Damn, come to think of it the seals need to go too because they feed on penguins. And if Hollywood has taught us anything over the past 2 years it's everyone loves Raymond and Penguins.




Toby Stumbo -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/7/2007 6:22:05 PM)

I would just eliminate the moron owners that train these strong dogs to be assholes. :shrug:




Todd M -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/7/2007 6:47:33 PM)

John getting into racial profiling of dogs. Who'd a thunk it. Anyone else read the good news that not all the dogs in this case are destined for the needle? Each dog will be looked at to see if it can be placed. Best news I've read on this case yet.




Duane Sampson -> RE:Mike Vick case (9/7/2007 7:57:31 PM)

Trained fighting dogs can't be "placed."




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