RE:Mike Vick case (Full Version)

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El Duderino -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/28/2007 10:01:45 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20070828_ap_arrestcloudsidahosenatorsfuture.html[/quote] As funny as this is for its irony, I actually feel a bit bad for him. Not because I think he was railroaded into pleading guilty for something that he didn't do (I don't buy that for a minute - he was trying to avoid a media circus, and it backfired bigtime), but because I think the guy has some homo-, or at least bi-, -sexual tendencies, and he felt it necessary to hide that. But, as has been brought up, this isn't something that you can just squelch. If you don't cop to it, it will express itself in unhealthy ways, like propositioning strangers in airport bathrooms. So, I feel bad for him for having bought a bogus bill of goods. I hope that watching him be cannibalized by his party makes clear how wrong their attitudes towards homosexuality are. I hope that there is either a push from within (unlikely) to change that attitude, or at the very least, that the log cabiners realize what a deal with the devil they have gotten themselves into.



John Childress -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/28/2007 10:10:57 PM)

As I said, Carruth's actions were inexcusable, but I think the difference in coverage has a lot more to do with the players' respective stature than with their crimes. EXCELLENT COUNTER in fact, the Anna Nicole was good also



Stacey King -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/28/2007 11:32:27 PM)

Michael Vick's estranged father, Michael Boddie, who in an interview last week detailed what he said were his son's dogfighting activities, saw Vick's comments on TV Monday. "I think it was heartfelt. I think he meant every word he said," Boddie, 45, said in telephone call made to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "Right now our family really does need God to step in," Boddie said. "The devil came to our family and destroyed our family. Hopefully we can mend and move on. Maybe me and my son can have a relationship. Maybe not." Boddie is Vick's biological father. He married Vick's mother, Brenda Vick Boddie, several years after their eldest son was born. Vick has not spoken to his father in two and half months and Brenda Vick Boddie hasn't lived with her husband for the past five years. Michael Boddie said his cell phone service — paid for by his son — was cut off by Vick last week after the father spoke to the press about his son's alleged transgressions. Boddie said he has not spoken to government investigators looking into dogfighting, nor does he plan to.



Duane Sampson -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/29/2007 4:13:26 PM)

-- Vick to Meet with Goodell -- Wed Aug 29, 2007 AP reports disgraced Altanta Falcons QB Michael Vick will get a chance to explain himself to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, although no date has been set for a meeting. The first thing Vick may want to tell Goodell is why he lied to him at the draft on April 28 when he denied any involvement in dogfighting. In fact, he told Goodell, "I love dogs." NFL spokesman Greg Aiello confirmed yesterday that Goodell expects to meet with Vick "at some point in the future" but nothing has been scheduled. Aiello would not say if the meeting would take place before Vick is sentenced Dec. 10, but that would seem likely. Goodell suspended Vick indefinitely Friday, shortly after Vick's signed guilty plea was submitted to the court in Richmond, Va. Vick is expected to be sentenced to 12-18 months in prison then face a more definitive timetable on an NFL suspension. It is anticipated Goodell will suspend Vick for at least one season following his release from prison, which means the earliest he would play is 2010. It's possible Goodell could suspend him longer, but review it after one year. And depending on what is uncovered by the NFL in the gambling aspects of the case, Vick could be looking at a lifetime ban. "You are now justifiably facing the consequences for the decisions you made and the conduct in which you engaged," Goodell wrote in a harshly worded letter to Vick last week. "Your career, freedom and public standing are now in the most serious jeopardy. I hope that you will be able to learn from this difficult experience and emerge from it better prepared to act responsibly and to make the kinds of choices that are expected of a conscientious and law-abiding citizen." Vick had been scheduled to appear yesterday on a syndicated radio show hosted by Dallas-based Tom Joyner, but he called Joyner to cancel. Vick reportedly was also going to take questions from callers. Joyner said Vick's advisers suggested some "might take any part of our interview out of context."



Guest -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 5:19:32 AM)

[quote="Todd Mallett"]Man that was a terrible post. Here's a clue: If you think a life time ban is outrageous for what Vick did then I take it there's not much you wouldn't forgive. Good for you. IMO people don't really change. Unless they find Jesus. What a cop out. [/quote] **************************************************** People don't change? I recall a fairly recent post about your drunk driving days. Have you changed, or do you continue to endanger the lives of innocent human beings?



Guest -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 5:29:07 AM)

[quote="Lynn Garthwaite"][quote="El Duderino"] The thing is, it's not an either/or. You can be completely disgusted with what Vick did AND still have concern for people, too. What Vick did doesn't have anything to do with what other sickos have done or will do. There should not be a cap on ones capacity for outrage. [/quote] The implication in many posts that murder doesn't get enough attention by the public is absurd. It's in the papers every day. It's on the news every night. Entire neighborhoods have rallied together to make their streets safer after a drive-by shooting. Bills have been introduced to protect people after, for example, a convicted sex offender strikes again. It goes on and on. As a society we have shown time and time again that we're appalled by the criminal element that shows a blatant disregard for life. To say that we're not angered enough at the loss of human life is just plain insulting and ignorant. Read the newspapers! [/quote] ***************************************************** For quite some time I have been curious about how many Iraqi children have been killed by American bombs and bullets. Perhaps you could point me to the newspaper article that reveals that information? What Vick did was wrong, illegal and incredibly sick and yes, you can be outraged. I'm just frequently amazed by what does and doesn't outrage people.



Todd M -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 6:12:26 AM)

[quote="Pete C"][quote="Todd Mallett"]Man that was a terrible post. Here's a clue: If you think a life time ban is outrageous for what Vick did then I take it there's not much you wouldn't forgive. Good for you. IMO people don't really change. Unless they find Jesus. What a cop out. [/quote] **************************************************** People don't change? I recall a fairly recent post about your drunk driving days. Have you changed, or do you continue to endanger the lives of innocent human beings?[/quote] I'd say I pushed the limit on maybe 3 occasions 2 times it was close and one time I know I was over. There was one other occasion but ironically even though it was an easy decision to not drive I was arrested for sleeping in my car drunk. This hardly defines/defined me as a person. I learned a valuable lesson and never took any chances again. Now what if I was the kind of guy that took a puppy that wanted to kiss my face and love me, treated it like shit, starved it, antagonized it and prepared it to fight. After observing it just wasn't a fighting dog, took that dog and wrapped a rope around its neck. As it's screaming and howling from the fight injuries and the fear and confusion of what I'm doing, string it up by its neck. Having failed to kill the dog, take it and hold its head under water until it expired. I did this a half dozen (+?) got caught and told everyone I wanted a second chance. That is behavior that defines someone. It's not a mistake to learn from.



Guest -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 6:18:07 AM)

[quote="Todd Mallett"][quote="Pete C"][quote="Todd Mallett"]Man that was a terrible post. Here's a clue: If you think a life time ban is outrageous for what Vick did then I take it there's not much you wouldn't forgive. Good for you. IMO people don't really change. Unless they find Jesus. What a cop out. [/quote] **************************************************** People don't change? I recall a fairly recent post about your drunk driving days. Have you changed, or do you continue to endanger the lives of innocent human beings?[/quote] I'd say I pushed the limit on maybe 3 occasions 2 times it was close and one time I know I was over. There was one other occasion but ironically even though it was an easy decision to not drive I was arrested for sleeping in my car drunk. This hardly defines/defined me as a person. I learned a valuable lesson and never took any chances again. Now what if I was the kind of guy that took a puppy that wanted to kiss my face and love me, treated it like shit, starved it, antagonized it and prepared it to fight. After observing it just wasn't a fighting dog, took that dog and wrapped a rope around its neck. As it's screaming and howling from the fight injuries and the fear and confusion of what I'm doing, string it up by its neck. Having failed to kill the dog, take it and hold its head under water until it expired. I did this a half dozen (+?) got caught and told everyone I wanted a second chance. That is behavior that defines someone. It's not a mistake to learn from.[/quote] *************************************************** Forgive me if I missed it, there didn't appear to be a clear answer to my question. Did you change? Edit: After re-reading, it appears that you did answer. You changed. So, contrary to what you previously stated, people can change? Or is it only you?



Guest -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 8:35:04 AM)

you're wasting your time with Erica's protegé It's the irrefutable logic of the "I'm smarter, you're not." pointless



Lynn G. -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 2:51:08 PM)

Pete C. - you could read the old Strib politics thread to see how outraged many of us are about the Iraqi children who have been killed. Don't spend another minute worried that we're not sufficiently enraged about that entire affair.



John Childress -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 3:18:42 PM)

[quote="Pete C"][quote="Lynn Garthwaite"][quote="El Duderino"] The thing is, it's not an either/or. You can be completely disgusted with what Vick did AND still have concern for people, too. What Vick did doesn't have anything to do with what other sickos have done or will do. There should not be a cap on ones capacity for outrage. The implication in many posts that murder doesn't get enough attention by the public is absurd. It's in the papers every day. It's on the news every night. Entire neighborhoods have rallied together to make their streets safer after a drive-by shooting. Bills have been introduced to protect people after, for example, a convicted sex offender strikes again. It goes on and on. As a society we have shown time and time again that we're appalled by the criminal element that shows a blatant disregard for life. To say that we're not angered enough at the loss of human life is just plain insulting and ignorant. Read the newspapers! ***************************************************** For quite some time I have been curious about how many Iraqi children have been killed by American bombs and bullets. Perhaps you could point me to the newspaper article that reveals that information? What Vick did was wrong, illegal and incredibly sick and yes, you can be outraged. I'm just frequently amazed by what does and doesn't outrage people. The mere fact that Michael Vick's case has been a top news story for months nationwide shows that we, as a people, do not have our priorities straight. Ditto with the fascination with Anna Nicole's baby and Barry Bonds alleged steroid use. The nation lives on crap and nonsense like dogfighting while much more important things get only minor attention. How many people outside of finance folks pay attention to how much trouble the dollar is in right now? Like Pete said, the innocent Iraqi children being killed is a FAR bigger story than Bad Newz Kennels - where is the months of coverage on that? Would about corruption in the church and hypocrisy in our political leaders? To me, the whole MV drama just illustrates how off balance our country is right now.
quote:

Now what if I was the kind of guy that took a puppy that wanted to kiss my face and love me, treated it like shit, starved it, antagonized it and prepared it to fight. After observing it just wasn't a fighting dog, took that dog and wrapped a rope around its neck.
I will take that over a Leonard Little clone any day of the week. I love dogs but I would prefer 8 dogs die than 1 mother.



Lynn G. -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 3:25:58 PM)

You guys must not read any newspapers or watch any news shows. For FOUR YEARS they've been covering the innocent deaths in Iraq. For about 20 years they've been covering the corruption in the church, and the hypocrisy in our political leaders is pretty much front and center every day. How else would the entire nation know that an IDAHO senator was playing footsy in a public bathroom? Senators in Minnesota and other states are calling for his resignation. Heck - don't read the newspapers? Watch Leno and Letterman! Trust me - people talk about this stuff. Two years later, we're still seeing news reports about how bad the response to hurricane Katrina has been. We're still incensed about it - and still talking about it. How do you guys believe that American citizens are ignoring these important news stories? You'd have to have your heads completely buried in the sand. The Michael Vick story will go away eventually just like Anna Nicole Smith did. But we'll still be outraged about Iraq and Katrina and drive-by shootings.



Lynn G. -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 3:31:42 PM)

A couple of days ago there was a nationwide protest "lie-in" to bring national attention to the numbers of guns on the street. In each major city that participated, 39 people in black t-shirts lay down on a red banner, indicating the number of people who are killed on the streets every single day by gunfire. Just one of many examples of how we, as citizens, are up in arms about the tragic loss of human lives. You gotta read those newspapers.



John Childress -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 4:06:49 PM)

I read all the major papers - NY Times, WSJ, WPost, etc. I watch the news shows. The country is focused on trivial things instead of real leadership areas. Even when we get to news items we view things myopically. Look at Cuba The US harps on Castro living or dying while refusing to recognize or acknowledge that for Castro to have stayed in power for half a century he has popular support! We have such simple-minded views of other countries it is amazing. Look at how clowns on both sides of aisle talk about the "troop surge". Idiots Didn't they learn anything from Vietnam? You can't build democracies with guns! The moment our troops come out the will of the people will take over. We should be working on winning people over spiritually and mentally and not with the gun. Our foreign policy is a disaster -ask Kissinger. Nationally more people focus on Hollywood crap than economics. Vick epitomizes how far off base we are.



Lynn G. -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 5:41:54 PM)

Castro? I've seen maybe two articles about him (at the time that he became so ill). I've seen perhaps 1000 articles on the war in Iraq. As for things like "our foreign policy is a disaster" I agree! Where we disagree is the amount of anger that people have over things like that. I claim there is a ton of outrage, whereas you seem to be saying that people are more angry about Vick than foreign policy. The foreign policy disaster has been a topic for five years. Vick has been a topic for a couple of months. Not even close.



Trekgeekscott -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 5:58:14 PM)

In addition, the Vick thing will blow over in a few months and there will still be disasterous foreign policy to complain about. Another big difference is that the Vick thing is going to be resolved with punishment via jail time, suspension. The foriegn policy disaster will remain disasterous for the next few years (until the next President can dig us out of the collosal trench that Bush has dug us. Vick was a nice distraction from the constant and unchanging disaster that is America's current foreign policy. In a few months another scandal will come along.



Lynn G. -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 6:16:52 PM)

That's the thing - Vick is just the most current scandal. Paris Hilton had more than her share of the limelight, Anna Nicole Smith had hers, Mel Gibson had a stint of his own... The fact that the news focuses on these items just shows the extent that the American public (heck, the entire world) has a taste for celebrity gossip. But to say that it indicates that the American public doesn't care about the really important issues is just ridiculous.



Jeff Jesser -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 6:56:06 PM)

Another key factor is bond people have with dogs. Most of the stuff going over seas and to "other people" don't hit home with common Americans because they don't know them and never will. Now an innocent dog...."Hell, that could be my little fido"... I admit, I sometimes fall to that line of thinking. My wife and I talk about this case almost every night. We get swept up in this thinking that it's worse because people, normally, have a choice and make decisions that get them in to terrible situations. The dogs don't. They were 100% innocent and got put in to a terrible situation by a "terrible man".



John Childress -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 7:39:53 PM)

Go beyond the Vick case Why did we need daily updates on Anna Nicole, Barry Bonds, etc. Ask an average Joe to name 10 congressmen and the fed chair Ask them to explain monetary policy or the devaluation of the dollar versus the Euro



Jeff Jesser -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 8:25:25 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]Go beyond the Vick case Why did we need daily updates on Anna Nicole, Barry Bonds, etc. Ask an average Joe to name 10 congressmen and the fed chair Ask them to explain monetary policy or the devaluation of the dollar versus the Euro[/quote] Absolutely, if you take out just the Vick case and make this about America and real time world events, we are probably the most naive (dumb?) people on the face of the planet. We tend to not pay attention to things that are out of everyday grasp of reality. If we have to pay 3 bucks for a gallon of gas we bitch about it but don't look in to "why". That's for those people wayyyyyyyy over there in Arabialand. Doesn't matter to me. :roll:



DeLain -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 8:38:18 PM)

Anybody see Bill Bellamy's intro about Michael Vick on Last Comic Standing last night? Freakin hilarious.



Steven JL -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 8:41:53 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]Go beyond the Vick case Why did we need daily updates on Anna Nicole, Barry Bonds, etc. Ask an average Joe to name 10 congressmen and the fed chair Ask them to explain monetary policy or the devaluation of the dollar versus the Euro[/quote] The public is apathetic and uninformed. Was talking about this over dinner with some friends recently and stumbled on the following concept. Information-based voting. Of course it would never fly but I wonder what type of leaders we would elect if voters had to take a general information, government, and policy quiz in the election booth. Whatever your score is that is the number of points that apply to the canidate of your choice. Score a 98 and 0.98 of your vote goes to your choice. Score a 70 and .70 points get awarded. Can't name the three branches of government, or the current President, or the number of Supreme Court justices, or where social security money comes from? Your 2% score will give 0.02 points to your candidate. I'd just love political campaigns where the politicians had to do everything they could to get the votes of the 80 and 90 %ers by campaigning on real issues. Ignoring the things that influence the 10%ers would only elevate our political discourse. Not to mention it might encourage more education on these issues. Yes the devil would be in the details of what exactly is on the test, which would make it impossible to implement, and of course it likely isn't Constitutional (though I'm not sure apathy and stupidity are Constitutionally protected classes). And no doubt some would claim this is racist or biased against non-english native speaking citizens, or kids from poor educational backgrounds, etc, etc. But wouldn't a more informed electorate - and politicians who need to cater to them instead of cheap sound bites - be a good thing?



John Childress -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 8:46:28 PM)

great idea



Jim Frenette -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 8:46:29 PM)

[quote="Lynn Garthwaite"]That's the thing - Vick is just the most current scandal. Paris Hilton had more than her share of the limelight, Anna Nicole Smith had hers, Mel Gibson had a stint of his own... The fact that the news focuses on these items just shows the extent that the American public (heck, the entire world) has a taste for celebrity gossip. But to say that it indicates that the American public doesn't care about the really important issues is just ridiculous.[/quote] I think instead of we want it, it is the media thins we need it. No way should an hour Sports Center be all about Vick or Bonds. The world wants to listen to the other things happening in the sports world.



Chicken Legs -> RE:Mike Vick case (8/30/2007 9:14:22 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]Go beyond the Vick case Why did we need daily updates on Anna Nicole, Barry Bonds, etc. Ask an average Joe to name 10 congressmen and the fed chair Ask them to explain monetary policy or the devaluation of the dollar versus the Euro[/quote] ATTN: Johnny C... I consider myself an ordinary 'Joe.' I put my pants on the same way the guy on the street does! I can name 20 U.S. Senators (Dems & Repubs & Independents), 10 congress persons, and the Fed Chairman. But, I can't tell you what I pay for a case of Rolling Rocks. Go figure.



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