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McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 12:49:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Disagree, Murf. I think if you put Arkansas or Kentucky in the Big10, for example, and they're immediate contenders. I think A&M and LSU would both win the Big10 and be 2nd in the ACC.



The Big 10 is a mess, I'm not vouching for them.
You're arguing apples/oranges now



djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 12:50:35 PM)

I'm okay with it, John. I'm just saying so far they have not played all that well. Again, I believe that will change as the year goes on, assuming Winston is not suspended given the massive FSU coverup.

I think Fisher is getting aggressive and out front more now because he's desperate and knows that eventually their 2014 title is probably going to end up vacated.



djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 12:51:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Disagree, Murf. I think if you put Arkansas or Kentucky in the Big10, for example, and they're immediate contenders. I think A&M and LSU would both win the Big10 and be 2nd in the ACC.



The Big 10 is a mess, I'm not vouching for them.
You're arguing apples/oranges now


And 2nd in the Pac12. IMO. Probably 1st or 2nd in the Big12.



djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 12:53:52 PM)

Again, I have no dog in this hunt. But recruiting matters. Player talent matters. MONEY really matters. Yes, not all recruits pan out as expected, but we've seen the SEC have more pro talent than any other conference the last several years as well. It's not like the recruiting rankings are some new phenomenon. This has been going on for several years now, so it makes a lot more sense to think that those great recruits are turning into great players which are in turn making great teams than it does to believe it's some conspiracy in favor of the SEC.



McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 1:12:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Again, I have no dog in this hunt. But recruiting matters. Player talent matters. MONEY really matters. Yes, not all recruits pan out as expected, but we've seen the SEC have more pro talent than any other conference the last several years as well. It's not like the recruiting rankings are some new phenomenon. This has been going on for several years now, so it makes a lot more sense to think that those great recruits are turning into great players which are in turn making great teams than it does to believe it's some conspiracy in favor of the SEC.




It's not a conspiracy, it's calculated actions, first with the BCS and Bill Hancock, and now with the scheduling and use of so called "neutral" fields.

There are documented cases of stars being added once an SEC team offers, so yeah recruiting does matter, as does talent, but as stated last week, they don't need the additional help and tweaks they get.



McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 1:21:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Disagree, Murf. I think if you put Arkansas or Kentucky in the Big10, for example, and they're immediate contenders. I think A&M and LSU would both win the Big10 and be 2nd in the ACC.



The Big 10 is a mess, I'm not vouching for them.
You're arguing apples/oranges now


And 2nd in the Pac12. IMO. Probably 1st or 2nd in the Big12.


Texas A&M didn't compete in the BIg8/12 for 25 years, but they do in now in the SEC and you think they'd finish second in the PAc-12?
Hell, I'd bet Arkansas or Missouri could win the Pac-12 as well.

Last time I checked, USC recruits pretty good as well, but they don't always win a tough league.



John Childress -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 1:26:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I'm okay with it, John. I'm just saying so far they have not played all that well. Again, I believe that will change as the year goes on, assuming Winston is not suspended given the massive FSU coverup.

I think Fisher is getting aggressive and out front more now because he's desperate and knows that eventually their 2014 title is probably going to end up vacated.

massive stretch

Isn't easier just to admit FSU was the best team in the country last year?

wow



John Childress -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 1:40:10 PM)

The other funny thing about FSU is people crying about the penalty

It was a clear penalty that DIRECTLY impacted the play!



djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 2:18:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I'm okay with it, John. I'm just saying so far they have not played all that well. Again, I believe that will change as the year goes on, assuming Winston is not suspended given the massive FSU coverup.

I think Fisher is getting aggressive and out front more now because he's desperate and knows that eventually their 2014 title is probably going to end up vacated.

massive stretch

Isn't easier just to admit FSU was the best team in the country last year?

wow


Stretch?

They were the best. I'm saying it may be vacated in the future because of the Winston stuff. Doesn't effect them being the best that year. I don't think they've been the best this year, but certainly they deserve the chance to show they are again if they continue to win.



Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 2:20:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

The other funny thing about FSU is people crying about the penalty

It was a clear penalty that DIRECTLY impacted the play!

Absolutely.

Another not so funny thing is I saw this happen in our game yesterday.
I think the only time they're really calling it is if it directly impacts the play.
It seems like it's a pretty common occurrence in the NFL.



Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 2:22:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I'm okay with it, John. I'm just saying so far they have not played all that well. Again, I believe that will change as the year goes on, assuming Winston is not suspended given the massive FSU coverup.

I think Fisher is getting aggressive and out front more now because he's desperate and knows that eventually their 2014 title is probably going to end up vacated.

massive stretch

Isn't easier just to admit FSU was the best team in the country last year?

wow


Stretch?

They were the best. I'm saying it may be vacated in the future because of the Winston stuff. Doesn't effect them being the best that year. I don't think they've been the best this year, but certainly they deserve the chance to show they are again if they continue to win.

I don't know what to think about this whole thing with Winston but I'm getting sick of trial by media in sports.
It's getting ridiculous.



djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 2:31:00 PM)

Well, I think the Winston case (not even discussing the rape case) is pretty obvious; you don't have over 2,000 sequentially numbered items if you're not getting paid for them.

And as I've said before, I have no problem with it. These guys SHOULD be paid. The NCAA is making billions off of their backs. Everyone profits but the kid, who could get hurt at any time or never amount to anything at the next level.

But the rules are the rules, so if they end up proving it, I think they'd have to vacate all of their wins.



McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:02:59 PM)

From the Portland newspaper, The Oregonian today


One of the current story lines is about the demise of the Big 12's hopes in the wake of West Virginia's victory over Baylor.

The Big 12, you will recall, plays nine, regular-season conference games. So does the Pac-12.

The SEC, which many believe is the best conference in the country, plays eight.

If we really believe that every game matters in college football's regular season, than we should expect everybody to schedule in the same way. Or if not, we should give Baylor credit for playing a conference game at West Virginia instead of a non-conference game at home against Twiddly U.

Mississippi State, currently ranked No. 1 in the Associated Press top 25, has a Nov. 8 titanic with visiting Tennessee Martin on the horizon. On the same day, Mississippi, currently ranked No. 3, entertains Presbyterian.

Also on Nov 8, Baylor is playing at Oklahoma and Oregon is at Utah.

Talk about stacking the deck.

The other obvious advantage the SEC gains from substituting a patsy opponent for a ninth conference game is a guaranteed victory.

While Mississippi and Mississippi State are coasting past inferior competition, either Baylor or Oklahoma, and either Oregon or Utah will have another loss.

Hopefully, the College Football Playoff Committee will take this into account. But who knows? This is a subjective process, and will be decided by a vote taken behind closed doors.



McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:07:34 PM)

Let me make one thing very clear.
I'm not arguing that team #1 or even team #2 in the SEC aren't very good teams.
What I'm arguing is that teams#3-8 in the SEC are nowhere near as good as they are made out to be.

I think the ideal playoff this year is

A one loss or undefeated SEC team.
A one loss or undefeated Florida State
A one loss PAC-12 team
A one loss Big 10 team or 1 loss Notre Dame
The only way I see a second SEC team is if the above doesn't happen.



Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:31:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Let me make one thing very clear.
I'm not arguing that team #1 or even team #2 in the SEC aren't very good teams.
What I'm arguing is that teams#3-8 in the SEC are nowhere near as good as they are made out to be.

I think the ideal playoff this year is

A one loss or undefeated SEC team.
A one loss or undefeated Florida State
A one loss PAC-12 team
A one loss Big 10 team or 1 loss Notre Dame
The only way I see a second SEC team is if the above doesn't happen.

It will never be a fair shake until it becomes the winners of each of the major conferences.
Maybe a play-in game for mid major conferences like Conf USA or American Athletic.

ACC.
Big 12.
Big 10.
Pac 12.
SEC.

You want in?
Win your conference.
Don't have a conference like Notre Dame, Air Force etc...?
Sorry, you're out. Find a conference if you want to be a national champion.
There's plenty of conferences that will take you.
It has to be symmetrical. No at large bids. That creates more of the unfairness that needs to be eliminated.



Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:44:19 PM)

OK, the math doesn't work. [:-]
You need 8 conferences.

Play in games for the last 3 spots between the other 6 conferences (Conf USA, MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, American Athletic, Ivy League)



McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:45:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

OK, the math doesn't work. [:-]
You need 8 conferences.

Play in games for the last 3 spots between the other 6 conferences (Conf USA, MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, American Athletic, Ivy League)



I'm ok with the 5 majors and three at large.



Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:48:51 PM)

I can see why this is a big pain in the ass.
It would take complete cooperation by the entire CFB community and require some team/conference changes to style it in a pro sport format.



Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:50:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

OK, the math doesn't work. [:-]
You need 8 conferences.

Play in games for the last 3 spots between the other 6 conferences (Conf USA, MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, American Athletic, Ivy League)



I'm ok with the 5 majors and three at large.

To me, at large is still not definitive and defeats the purpose.



djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:53:40 PM)

The problem is that all conferences are not equal. The ACC is a joke. The Big10 is a joke right now. And the Big12/Pac12 are not nearly as good as the SEC. I have no problem with going by talent instead of conference. That's why it has to be a 8 or 16 team playoff, so you can allow for that. If 7-8 of the best teams are in the SEC, or Pac12, or ACC, then so be it. Just like college basketball.



Phil Riewer -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 3:57:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Disagree, Murf. I think if you put Arkansas or Kentucky in the Big10, for example, and they're immediate contenders. I think A&M and LSU would both win the Big10 and be 2nd in the ACC.



The Big 10 is a mess, I'm not vouching for them.
You're arguing apples/oranges now


The Big 10 is a joke? Maryland just beat Iowa....there is a lot of depth there....many are too focused on Michigan and Penn State (those two are down).

I think Nebraska, Michigan State, and Ohio State can hang in there with any team and are ranked in the top 15 teams. MN just faced supposedly one of the worst teams in the Big 10, Purdue, which changed QB's and have a ton of speed and could give most teams trouble.....including Michigan State the week before.



djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 4:02:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Let me make one thing very clear.
I'm not arguing that team #1 or even team #2 in the SEC aren't very good teams.
What I'm arguing is that teams#3-8 in the SEC are nowhere near as good as they are made out to be.

I think the ideal playoff this year is

A one loss or undefeated SEC team.
A one loss or undefeated Florida State
A one loss PAC-12 team
A one loss Big 10 team or 1 loss Notre Dame
The only way I see a second SEC team is if the above doesn't happen.


Maybe Murf but:

1) I find it hard to believe the above doesn't happen. I think ND will lose. And I think at least one of MSU/Oregon will lose. No one else from either conference is deserving, 1 loss or not.

2) Let's take the #3-5. Do you think Alabama/Auburn/Georgia are considerably worse than OleMiss/MissSt? Because I think all 5 are all but equals. So if you think #1 and 2 are great, the same holds for 3-5 IMO.



Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 4:02:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

The problem is that all conferences are not equal. The ACC is a joke. The Big10 is a joke right now. And the Big12/Pac12 are not nearly as good as the SEC. I have no problem with going by talent instead of conference. That's why it has to be a 8 or 16 team playoff, so you can allow for that. If 7-8 of the best teams are in the SEC, or Pac12, or ACC, then so be it. Just like college basketball.

You could use the same theory for the NFL.
But division winners automatically go to the playoffs, not the best 8 teams.
Last year the North's 8-7-1 division winner went to the playoffs though there were better teams.

As long as the basis for inclusion is rankings there will never be a fair shake.



djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 4:03:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Disagree, Murf. I think if you put Arkansas or Kentucky in the Big10, for example, and they're immediate contenders. I think A&M and LSU would both win the Big10 and be 2nd in the ACC.



The Big 10 is a mess, I'm not vouching for them.
You're arguing apples/oranges now


The Big 10 is a joke? Maryland just beat Iowa....there is a lot of depth there....many are too focused on Michigan and Penn State (those two are down).

I think Nebraska, Michigan State, and Ohio State can hang in there with any team and are ranked in the top 15 teams. MN just faced supposedly one of the worst teams in the Big 10, Purdue, which changed QB's and have a ton of speed and could give most teams trouble.....including Michigan State the week before.


I root for the Big10 more than any other conference. And I do think it's deep....deeply bad. Bielema's tenure at Wisconsin/Arkansas tells you all you need to know.



Phil Riewer -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (10/20/2014 4:05:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Disagree, Murf. I think if you put Arkansas or Kentucky in the Big10, for example, and they're immediate contenders. I think A&M and LSU would both win the Big10 and be 2nd in the ACC.



The Big 10 is a mess, I'm not vouching for them.
You're arguing apples/oranges now


The Big 10 is a joke? Maryland just beat Iowa....there is a lot of depth there....many are too focused on Michigan and Penn State (those two are down).

I think Nebraska, Michigan State, and Ohio State can hang in there with any team and are ranked in the top 15 teams. MN just faced supposedly one of the worst teams in the Big 10, Purdue, which changed QB's and have a ton of speed and could give most teams trouble.....including Michigan State the week before.


I root for the Big10 more than any other conference. And I do think it's deep....deeply bad. Bielema's tenure at Wisconsin/Arkansas tells you all you need to know.


What does Bilema at Arkansas have to do with the Big 10? Bielema is a hell of a coach but that doesn't mean he can recruit and is he in his first or 2nd year at Arkansas?
Also, just like at Wisconsin people are stealing his coordinators:
On December 17, 2013, Bielema's defensive line coach, Charlie Partridge, was hired by Florida Atlantic as its new head football coach. [13]

On January 14, 2014, Bielema's defensive coordinator, Chris Ash, was hired by Ohio State Buckeyes as its new co-defensive coordinator. [14]



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