RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (Full Version)

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djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 1:21:16 PM)

Huh? His overall career so far should absolutely be based on his time as a C. He's spent as much time there already as many of the great catchers in the game. If he adds value as a 1b, great, but certainly he's far less valuable as a 1b than a C.

A guy can be a greater player at another position like LF/RF/1b, etc. It's just tougher. That's not "my" rule. That's just basic value in the game. If Mike Trout can catch and put up the numbers he does, obviously he's a lot better/more valuable player than he already is. Doesn't mean he's not elite where he is, and the best in the game.

Johnny Bench is a great catcher; arguably the best ever. There are still 4 (more than that) better players than him alive today. IMO.



Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 2:21:51 PM)

Dang..........


Did Not Sign from 2008 #MNTwins draft:

Kolten Wong (16)
George Springer (48)



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 2:40:22 PM)

I was just looking at the Giants Franchise Four. Didn't see Juan Marichal. I was like, is he dead? I looked him up and I believe he's still alive. How is he not one of the Top 4? Buster Posey??? Not yet!!! Terrible oversight.



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:01:36 PM)

I just watch an MLB Network special with Bob Costas, focusing on the baseball life of Buck Showalter. Really, really good.



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:02:44 PM)

AAA All-Star game on now. Do the Red Wings have a single prospect these days? Do they have an AS rep?



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:04:28 PM)

Do any teams run their top prospects thru AAA anymore? Not recognizing many of these names.



djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:05:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

I was just looking at the Giants Franchise Four. Didn't see Juan Marichal. I was like, is he dead? I looked him up and I believe he's still alive. How is he not one of the Top 4? Buster Posey??? Not yet!!! Terrible oversight.


Agree there. No way Buster is to his level yet. Or close. In time? Maybe.



SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:07:24 PM)

Buster could retire tomorrow and I'd still put him on there
The disrespect the modern Giants get is mind-boggling.



djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:08:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Buster could retire tomorrow and I'd still put him on there
The disrespect the Giants get is mind-boggling.


I just can't put him on there for his career yet. He's awesome; you know how I feel about him. Just not yet. For these I put more stock into overall career (ie value to your organization all-time) than anything else.



SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:09:54 PM)

What more can he accomplish?



djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:12:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

What more can he accomplish?


Well, he hasn't even had the career Mauer has yet. Needs 5-6 more years IMO. I just can't put him in their top 4 for 6 good years, no matter how good they've been. He gets some credit for the WS titles of course, but he's also had some great teams with MadBum, Lincecum, Cain, etc.



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:12:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Buster could retire tomorrow and I'd still put him on there
The disrespect the modern Giants get is mind-boggling.

Dustin loves Buster even more than he loves Mauer.

They maybe should have scrapped putting current players on these lists at all. Stirs things up. Which I suppose is what they wanted.



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:13:24 PM)

Scratch that. Update: Dustin loves Mauer more. [8|]



djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:13:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Buster could retire tomorrow and I'd still put him on there
The disrespect the modern Giants get is mind-boggling.

Dustin loves Buster even more than he loves Mauer.

They maybe should have scrapped putting current players on these lists at all. Stirs things up. Which I suppose is what they wanted.


I wouldn't go that far. But it's close. Have always loved both. Back to Posey's college days.



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:15:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

I was just looking at the Giants Franchise Four. Didn't see Juan Marichal. I was like, is he dead? I looked him up and I believe he's still alive. How is he not one of the Top 4? Buster Posey??? Not yet!!! Terrible oversight.


Agree there. No way Buster is to his level yet. Or close. In time? Maybe.

And I made a mistake anyway....you don't have to be alive to make these lists (Kirby, Harmon)....guess my mind was mixed up with the Greatest Living Player stuff. Sorry about the confusion.



Stacey King -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:16:28 PM)

Jay Jaffe, who writes for Sports Illustrated, devised a system for measuring "Hall of Fame worthiness" that he dubbed JAWS.

By JAWS, for example, Tony Oliva ranks 32nd among right fielders. There are 24 Hall of Famers on the right field list; 19 of them rank ahead of Tony-O.

Anyway By JAWS, the ninth greatest catcher in major league history is Joe Mauer.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_C.shtml



djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:17:28 PM)

Boom



SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:17:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

What more can he accomplish?


Well, he hasn't even had the career Mauer has yet. Needs 5-6 more years IMO. I just can't put him in their top 4 for 6 good years, no matter how good they've been. He gets some credit for the WS titles of course, but he's also had some great teams with MadBum, Lincecum, Cain, etc.

You named great pitchers.
What's he had to do with that?
How many of these other top four guys has as many rings as Posey Already does?
He needs two more rings? Pffft
He's there. Any other professional team this dominant would be drooled over.
The Giants? People, hell, most baseball fans even ... Aren't aware of what they've done the past five years.



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:17:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Jay Jaffe, who writes for Sports Illustrated, devised a system for measuring "Hall of Fame worthiness" that he dubbed JAWS.

By JAWS, for example, Tony Oliva ranks 32nd among right fielders. There are 24 Hall of Famers on the right field list; 19 of them rank ahead of Tony-O.

Anyway By JAWS, the ninth greatest catcher in major league history is Joe Mauer.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_C.shtml

Mauer nut-hugger.

Although 9th sounds pretty close. I have him about 12th.



djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:19:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Jay Jaffe, who writes for Sports Illustrated, devised a system for measuring "Hall of Fame worthiness" that he dubbed JAWS.

By JAWS, for example, Tony Oliva ranks 32nd among right fielders. There are 24 Hall of Famers on the right field list; 19 of them rank ahead of Tony-O.

Anyway By JAWS, the ninth greatest catcher in major league history is Joe Mauer.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_C.shtml

Mauer nut-hugger.

Although 9th sounds pretty close. I have him about 12th.


12th? Who else do you have above him? I could see Posey and Yadi getting there. But they've still got work to do IMO.



twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:19:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

What more can he accomplish?


Well, he hasn't even had the career Mauer has yet. Needs 5-6 more years IMO. I just can't put him in their top 4 for 6 good years, no matter how good they've been. He gets some credit for the WS titles of course, but he's also had some great teams with MadBum, Lincecum, Cain, etc.

You named great pitchers.
What's he had to do with that?
How many of these other top four guys has as many rings as Posey Already does?
He needs two more rings? Pffft
He's there. Any other professional team this dominant would be drooled over.
The Giants? People, hell, most baseball fans even ... Aren't aware of what they've done the past five years.

Maybe we should put Madison Bumgarner and Tim Lincecum on the list too?

Why was Barry banned from the 4 Greatest Living Players list, but he made the Franchise Four?



Stacey King -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:20:07 PM)

yup correct. yadi and buster will end up above him



djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:20:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

What more can he accomplish?


Well, he hasn't even had the career Mauer has yet. Needs 5-6 more years IMO. I just can't put him in their top 4 for 6 good years, no matter how good they've been. He gets some credit for the WS titles of course, but he's also had some great teams with MadBum, Lincecum, Cain, etc.

You named great pitchers.
What's he had to do with that?
How many of these other top four guys has as many rings as Posey Already does?
He needs two more rings? Pffft
He's there. Any other professional team this dominant would be drooled over.
The Giants? People, hell, most baseball fans even ... Aren't aware of what they've done the past five years.


Sure. I just don't count rings as much for baseball guys as other sports. Too many other factors, too much luck, 1 guy has way less effect on a baseball team winning it all than others. If Trout never wins a ring, that's not a big deal to me. Ted Williams never won a ring. Harmon, Carew, Oliva, etc. A sport like basketball to me is so different. You're 1 of 5 guys on the court. Baseball, heck, they can pitch around you every time up.



Stacey King -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:22:22 PM)

i like buster. have 3 keeper baseball teams.

own buster in all 3.

(and mookie betts)



djskillz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/15/2015 7:23:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

yup correct. yadi and buster will end up above him


Decent chance. But Yadi's already 32. And Buster will likely move to 1b full-time soon IMO. He's following the Mauer path and has only caught 58 games there so far this year. 111 last year. I think it'll be close with all 3.

And if we're going all years (ie also not catcher), Mauer's still got some time there too to help his case further. As does Posey obviously.



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