Vikes talk for Twins fans (Full Version)

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Lynn G. -> Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 10:06:50 AM)

The old thread is getting clodgy with so many pages. With the season ending and the offseason/draft talk beginning, this seemed like a good time to open a new thread.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 10:11:47 AM)

I thought that was the "Cute little puppies, flower arranging" thread?




twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 10:22:45 AM)

Now CPAMAN can post.



Dave E -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 10:49:55 AM)

Not sorry to see Frazier go in the sense that he had the responsibility to put together an NFL quality coaching staff, and failed miserably.  I think that was his biggest downfall (not Ponder; his comments of late were pretty telling that the decision to repeatedly start him was not his).

Am frankly worried about the ability of the Wilfs/Spielman to bring in a better coach, however.



Lynn G. -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 10:56:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

I thought that was the "Cute little puppies, flower arranging" thread?




It was. But it got too long and we close the lengthy ones when they get too slow. This one also badly needed a name change. The old name was so long it didn't even fit on the menu, and it also was not on topic.



Jim Frenette -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 11:42:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

Not sorry to see Frazier go in the sense that he had the responsibility to put together an NFL quality coaching staff, and failed miserably.  I think that was his biggest downfall (not Ponder; his comments of late were pretty telling that the decision to repeatedly start him was not his).

Am frankly worried about the ability of the Wilfs/Spielman to bring in a better coach, however.


Sure Ponder has his faults, but 4 of his games the defense gave up late scores to best him. This defense gave up the 2nd most points in team history, granted some of those points were int returns.

Who ever they hire, I hope they find experience coaches for the coordinators instead of elevating someone for the learning experience



bstinger -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 12:04:57 PM)

Leslie was a good guy and for that reason you hate to see him fired, but I never liked his passive style. His leadership style, personnel decisions, game management style, and defensive strategies were too passive for my taste. I hope the next coach institutes a more aggressive attacking style of defense, I hate the Tampa 2.



Todd M -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 12:18:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

Not sorry to see Frazier go in the sense that he had the responsibility to put together an NFL quality coaching staff, and failed miserably.  I think that was his biggest downfall (not Ponder; his comments of late were pretty telling that the decision to repeatedly start him was not his).

Am frankly worried about the ability of the Wilfs/Spielman to bring in a better coach, however.


Would you say Spielman was lying when he said Frazier had final say on who was to start then?



Todd M -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 12:30:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

Not sorry to see Frazier go in the sense that he had the responsibility to put together an NFL quality coaching staff, and failed miserably.  I think that was his biggest downfall (not Ponder; his comments of late were pretty telling that the decision to repeatedly start him was not his).

Am frankly worried about the ability of the Wilfs/Spielman to bring in a better coach, however.


Sure Ponder has his faults, but 4 of his games the defense gave up late scores to best him. This defense gave up the 2nd most points in team history, granted some of those points were int returns.

Who ever they hire, I hope they find experience coaches for the coordinators instead of elevating someone for the learning experience



Pretty sure you won't respond but I'll clear this up for you again.


3 times. Not 4.

And 2 of the 3 times Ponder and the offense went 3 and out (one was a sad 4 and out) with the lead leaving the defense to close out the game.

Ever mention that? No, I do not believe you ever have.



Dave E -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 2:36:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

Not sorry to see Frazier go in the sense that he had the responsibility to put together an NFL quality coaching staff, and failed miserably.  I think that was his biggest downfall (not Ponder; his comments of late were pretty telling that the decision to repeatedly start him was not his).

Am frankly worried about the ability of the Wilfs/Spielman to bring in a better coach, however.


Would you say Spielman was lying when he said Frazier had final say on who was to start then?


I think Spielman/Wilfs had given up on the season and wanted to give Ponder as long a run as possible to see if there was anything there (which is, frankly, kind of defensible).  I suspect there was a lot of pressure on Frazier to start him.

Not sure that makes him a liar -- he may have been telling the truth that Frazier had final say -- but I have a hard time believing there pressure on Frazier to play Ponder.

All that aside: I think the way Frazier handled the defense alone is a fireable offense.  If he let Williams do his own thing, he's an idiot for allowing Williams to make poor decisions on game strategy (end-of-game losses, as you mention), as well as broader strategy (not playing to Rhodes' strengths until the end of the year).  If he was micromanaging, then he himself was making poor decisions.  Either way, you get a little more out of the defense and you may well have had a 8-9 win season.



Dave E -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 2:39:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

Not sorry to see Frazier go in the sense that he had the responsibility to put together an NFL quality coaching staff, and failed miserably.  I think that was his biggest downfall (not Ponder; his comments of late were pretty telling that the decision to repeatedly start him was not his).

Am frankly worried about the ability of the Wilfs/Spielman to bring in a better coach, however.


Sure Ponder has his faults, but 4 of his games the defense gave up late scores to best him. This defense gave up the 2nd most points in team history, granted some of those points were int returns.

Who ever they hire, I hope they find experience coaches for the coordinators instead of elevating someone for the learning experience



Pretty sure you won't respond but I'll clear this up for you again.


3 times. Not 4.

And 2 of the 3 times Ponder and the offense went 3 and out (one was a sad 4 and out) with the lead leaving the defense to close out the game.

Ever mention that? No, I do not believe you ever have.


Even if they had won those games, I agree, it would have been in spite of Ponder's failures to assist the defense.  Not just the late 3 and outs -- how many early 3 and outs did he have which resulted in the defense spending 35+ minutes on the field?  I didn't see Ponder do anything this year to build on the nice finish last year.  He's just not an NFL QB.  Bad decisions, and even on the occasions he made the right throw, the throw would be just inaccurate enough to make sure the receiver couldn't take advantage of the situation.

That said, as I mention -- I think better coaching could have wrung more out of the defense.



Todd M -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 2:54:23 PM)

I agree about the defense and think you used a perfect example with Rhodes.


Also agree about Ponder putting the defense in vulnerable positions not just at the end of the game but throughout.

Frazier was too conservative for me and too slow to adapt.

Can't wait for a fresh start.



Dave E -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 2:57:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I agree about the defense and think you used a perfect example with Rhodes.


Also agree about Ponder putting the defense in vulnerable positions not just at the end of the game but throughout.

Frazier was too conservative for me and too slow to adapt.

Can't wait for a fresh start.


Agree completely.

Who would you like for a new coach?



Todd M -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 3:13:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I agree about the defense and think you used a perfect example with Rhodes.


Also agree about Ponder putting the defense in vulnerable positions not just at the end of the game but throughout.

Frazier was too conservative for me and too slow to adapt.

Can't wait for a fresh start.


Agree completely.

Who would you like for a new coach?


If I get to chose without worrying about the what Spielman might be looking for.

McDaniels
Whisenhunt

I'd be cool with either Gruden as well. I think Jay has done a decent job with Dalton and their offense. They like to take shots down the field and have been successful doing it.

John for his fire.



Todd M -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 3:17:22 PM)

How about yourself, Dave?



Dave E -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (12/30/2013 9:31:55 PM)

Bearing in mind that I have little upon which to base my thoughts, I also like Whis and Jay Gruden as possibilities.  Whis has had offensive success, has NFL HC experience, and did a nice job in AZ when he had a QB to work with.  Jay has similar offensive success, has been in the NFL a while, and maybe was a head coach of a UFL team?  Both are relatively young, seem like the type of guys who would command the respect of pros without turning them off (a la Chili), and seem to be the type of guys who could work well with what they have (rather than showhorning mismatched talent into their pre-conceived schemes).

McDaniels tenure in Denver worries me, although admittedly here he wouldn't have personnel responsibilities, which doomed him there.  Still, he makes me a touch nervous.

I'm assuming Jon Gruden would want more control than the Vikings would be willing to give.

I'll quite following the team if they hire Shanahan, although I doubt there is any likelihood at all of that.

Truthfully, though, I would be most interested in the team if they brought Tice back and drafted Manziel.  Not saying at all it would be even a smart move (although I think Tice could be decent in the right situation, but I would follow every second of it.  The entertainment level would be off the charts, and I guarantee the team would play their asses off.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 9:44:50 AM)

Whew...

The Chicago Bears ended the question marks surrounding quarterback Jay Cutler.

General manager Phil Emery announced Thursday the team signed the quarterback to a seven-year deal that will keep him in Chicago through 2020.




TJSweens -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 10:37:11 AM)

I really can't figure out Tampa. They jumped out of the gate and signed Lovie Smith, who's teams consistently underachieved, bypassing any attempts at the guys who are considered to be the top candidates. Smith would still have been available a month from now. The Bucs took themselves out of competition for the best candidates by signing one of the least appealing candidates out there.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 10:39:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I really can't figure out Tampa. They jumped out of the gate and signed Lovie Smith, who's teams consistently underachieved, bypassing any attempts at the guys who are considered to be the top candidates. Smith would still have been available a month from now. The Bucs took themselves out of competition for the best candidates by signing one of the least appealing candidates out there.



Happy the Bucs did this.

Have no confidence in Spielman. He mis-handled the whole season, and still got to drive Frazier under the bus.



sixthwi -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 10:40:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Whew...

The Chicago Bears ended the question marks surrounding quarterback Jay Cutler.

General manager Phil Emery announced Thursday the team signed the quarterback to a seven-year deal that will keep him in Chicago through 2020.




Great news for the rest of the NFC North!




Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 11:16:17 AM)

Whoops

#Vikings linebacker Erin Henderson arrested on suspicion of DUI again yesterday. Team is likely to release him once rosters are unfrozen.



Dave E -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 11:19:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Whoops

#Vikings linebacker Erin Henderson arrested on suspicion of DUI again yesterday. Team is likely to release him once rosters are unfrozen.


Well, that makes it an easy call.



Dave E -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 11:29:57 AM)

Really worried Spielman is the type of guy who would get "blown away" by an interview and end up hiring some idiot.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 11:35:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

Really worried Spielman is the type of guy who would get "blown away" by an interview and end up hiring some idiot.


This is where I get worried about someone like a Wade Phillips or Norv Turner or Jim Haslett being hired.  These guys have been hired more than once to lead a team as HC and failed miserably...but sometimes they just INTERVIEW well. 

I don't know how to get around that.  But I do fear they have a good interview with someone and that someone turns out to be Les Steckel.



Dave E -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (1/2/2014 11:40:38 AM)

Heard Dubay mention that the Vikings have never hired a coach with previous NFL HC experience.  Had never noticed that before.

Let's change it up. Whis!!!



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