RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (Full Version)

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djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 5:01:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

My problem is the Vikings are "hoping" their choice becomes the franchise face.
They're "hoping" people buy in.
They passed on a sure cash cow, a sure media driver, a sure attraction for interest and excitement.
Passed on it.
Had it in their grasp and passed.
That we know.


Too much so IMO, however. I'm ALREADY sick of Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam talk. And it's been 2 days. [&:]



TJSweens -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 6:49:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

My problem is the Vikings are "hoping" their choice becomes the franchise face.
They're "hoping" people buy in.
They passed on a sure cash cow, a sure media driver, a sure attraction for interest and excitement.
Passed on it.
Had it in their grasp and passed.
That we know.


The whole franchise face aspect is so over-rated. Manziel would come in with a lot of sizzle and sell a lot of jerseys the first year and then what? You have to actually perform or doesn't mean a damn thing. I'll say for the umpteenth time; Manziel is more sizzle than steak. Sizzle wears off in a big hurry if isn't good. He is exciting as hell, but has a lot of bad habits that don't translate to the next level. Exciting bullets into triple coverage tend to picked of at the NFL level.

TB looks much more like an NFL QB than JFF. You can have the sizzle, I'll take the steak.



David Levine -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:08:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

My problem is the Vikings are "hoping" their choice becomes the franchise face.
They're "hoping" people buy in.
They passed on a sure cash cow, a sure media driver, a sure attraction for interest and excitement.
Passed on it.
Had it in their grasp and passed.
That we know.


And we've seen how fast that face goes away if he isn't all he was hyped to be.

I think Manziel has a chance to be special, but I think he has a HUGE bust potential as well.



McMurfy -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:13:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

My problem is the Vikings are "hoping" their choice becomes the franchise face.
They're "hoping" people buy in.
They passed on a sure cash cow, a sure media driver, a sure attraction for interest and excitement.
Passed on it.
Had it in their grasp and passed.
That we know.



For the same reasons you don't like Tiger Woods, you are advocating for Manziel.
I don't get it.

The sideshow would have sucked, and I don't think his act or play will sustain itself in the big league under any measurement of success.

Turner and Zimmer know football, and Spielman seems to as well.
I'm optimistic.
Bridgewater may not be an MVP, but he can at least be Tommy Kramer, the good Brad Johnson, or the good Rich Gannon.

It will be nice to end the revolving door at QB.

At least be open to the possibility of the guy being special.



SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:41:30 PM)

Awwwwww, touched a nerve.   [&:][&:]
Just stirring the pot boys.
Neither choice has played a down yet.
Don't TELL me who's going to succeed and who's not. YET.
That's your opinion. just like mine. I can have one.
In 2-3 years we will know.
Totally willing to get on the Bridgewater Bandwago that's suddenly overflowing.

My Manziel crush comes from actually watching his biggest successes in college.
I was like everyone else, I saw a cocky little shit who needed a comeuppance.
I actually went into the first Alabama game hoping to watch his public spanking.
I've never liked Alabama one ounce, but that day I was playing the "expert, now-he-gets-his-due, here it comes", fan waiting to see his downfall.
Didn't happen. I saw a guy his teammates would die for, and a guy with more skills than haters wanted you to believe.
Thought maybe it was a mirage, a miracle, said I'd wait and see before saying I was wrong too.
Watched many more of his conquests and saw leadership, skill, moxie, toughness, everything. But the next Alabama shot at him loomed and I still thought we'd see the beat-down. After all, the mighty mighty Tide had a full year to stew, to plan, to crush this little peon who dared stand up to them.
I watched the whole thing, couple times. And got impressed even more.
I realize Bridgewaters had similar success and similar games. Seems to be a great kid who has also proved detractors wrong some already, and now they both head into their biggest challenges.
As I've said a million times, I'll be the first guy to admit I'm wrong when it happens, if you know me you know that's not bull.
I've simply felt all along the JFF Show was something we needed.
You all obviously didn't. Usually? Hell yeah I'm the guy calling for stability and a square jaw and substance.
Where's that gotten me?
I saw something that looked like fun, (And was told I was an idiot.... BTW ..... because NEITHER GUY WILL BE AVAILABLE AT EIGHT, YOU DOPE ...) how'd that pan out?
We didn't just get one shot at who I wanted, we got a couple, and we passed. That's all I'm saying.
Totally agree that Manziel has maybe the highest flop potential on the board. That's the chance you take with all of them.
I felt that it was a time for us to go a different direction, and realize now that Zimmer wants to build a more stable atmosphere. Usually ... my gig.
Oh, and btw ... I was on board for Zimmer before anyone, for whatever that's worth. Guess I didn't think about that one long enough, because they took who Zimmer would take. I shoulda known that.
Hoping it works. Hoping in a year or two we are all pleased with what they've done. Feeling right now like we missed out on some fun.
  



Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:44:50 PM)

quote:

I realize Bridgewaters had similar success and similar games. Seems to be a great kid who has also proved detractors wrong some already, and now they both head into their biggest challenges.
As I've said a million times, I'll be the first guy to admit I'm wrong when it happens, if you know me you know that's not bull.
I've simply felt all along the JFF Show was something we needed.


Our house was disappointed on passing on Manziel, happy for Bridgewater as a consolation prize.

Why not try the guy with flair? They had one guy who had flair that got them as close to the Super Bowl as you can get.

At the least they could have sold a ton of jerseys [:D]



SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:46:32 PM)

At the least they could have sold a ton of jerseys


As Seinfeld says, in then end, we're all just cheering for laundry .... lots of truth in that. [:D]



Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:46:52 PM)

Manziel is a breath of fresh air a stale franchise needed.

And one of them got him.



SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:47:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Manziel is a breath of fresh air a stale franchise needed.

And one of them got him.


Basically said what I felt in one sentence.
Typical of me. (to need a hundred)  [&:]



Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:48:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Manziel is a breath of fresh air a stale franchise needed.

And one of them got him.


Basically said what I felt in one sentence.
Typical of me. (to need a hundred)  [&:]


Your long post was spot on.

No one else did what JMan did to the 'Tide that day.

NO ONE

Should speak volumes.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 7:50:08 PM)

Personally, I'll be shocked if he flops. He's no Tebow.

Teddy will probably be pretty good too. I just think Manziel will be better.

ANd Mariotta will be that much better than both of them.



Jim Frenette -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 8:20:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I think the chances are pretty good AD is a Viking for life at this point, actually.

1) He's still the best back in FB by a good margin.
2) RB's just don't get equal trade value these days.
3) There's a new stadium ready in 2 years and he's the face of the franchise.
4) AD is a huge weapon for a young franchise QB to have to take pressure off.
5) In a couple of years AD will be closing in on some various all-time records and the Vikings will want to benefit from the notoriety for that.

I just don't see him going anywhere any time soon.


Dustin in case you want to see the new stadium

http://www.vikings.com/stadium/new-stadium/webcam.html


Thanks Fargo. Didn't know they had a live cam going. I've been excited about it for a while. I like the design; closest thing to it is probably Lucas Oil, which is an awesome stadium.

What sucks is it's probably going to pale in comparison to Atlanta's new football stadium, however. Oh well, sure beats the hell out of the Dome.


I've been going there watching the destruction of the dome and same time starting construction of the new one. Ed did you stay with it when it panned to the right? No puddles out there.[:D]



McMurfy -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 8:26:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Manziel is a breath of fresh air a stale franchise needed.

And one of them got him.


Basically said what I felt in one sentence.
Typical of me. (to need a hundred)  [&:]


Your long post was spot on.

No one else did what JMan did to the 'Tide that day.

NO ONE

Should speak volumes.



How many great QBs do the Tide Face?

?

Tebow
Jesse Palmer
Cam Newton, Maybe
Chris Leak
David Green
Rex Grossman
Matthew Stafford Maybe

Eli Manning, Maybe


The Tide has nothing to do with Manziel's talent, over the BCS Era, there are a couple of decent QBs, at least at the NFL level that they have faced.

Otherwise, what he did to Alabama or the SEC doesn't mean all that much.

The guy has some flair, a knack for the big stage, and a game that has never really translated well to the NFL.
He is as big of a question mark as any other rookie QB, but I'd rather hang my hat on and cheer for the accomplished guy who bought his Mom a Cadillac than the guy who bought his favorite watering hole a beer and a shot on draft night.

That Tommy Kramer stuff was OK in 1977, but the game has evolved and the QBs need to do more and be held more accountable on and off the field than they were in the old days.



McMurfy -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 8:34:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Personally, I'll be shocked if he flops. He's no Tebow.

Teddy will probably be pretty good too. I just think Manziel will be better.

ANd Mariotta will be that much better than both of them.



I'm really torn on Mariotta.
I've seen 3/4 of his games in person
An outstanding College QB, no doubt.

But at least now, he is kind of soft spoken, not a great QB trait.
He also misses some throws you'd like to see him make.

I think he'd actually benefit from two more years of college.



twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 8:40:50 PM)

[sm=popcorn.gif]



McMurfy -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 8:42:55 PM)

One more thing.
Manziel had a top 10 in the draft LT covering his ass and a 6'5 tall top 10 receiver hauling in a lot of his Hail Marys.

Make a guy look awful good with that support network in place in my opinion.



djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 8:46:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

One more thing.
Manziel had a top 10 in the draft LT covering his ass and a 6'5 tall top 10 receiver hauling in a lot of his Hail Marys.

Make a guy look awful good with that support network in place in my opinion.


This. I think Manziel has a chance to be very good with his presence, etc. But man did he have some talent around him. He had 2 top 5 talents on the OL with him in consecutive years. And Evans, as you mention. He made some great plays, no doubt, but he got bailed out a lot too. And always had a ton of time.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 8:51:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

One more thing.
Manziel had a top 10 in the draft LT covering his ass and a 6'5 tall top 10 receiver hauling in a lot of his Hail Marys.

Make a guy look awful good with that support network in place in my opinion.


This. I think Manziel has a chance to be very good with his presence, etc. But man did he have some talent around him. He had 2 top 5 talents on the OL with him in consecutive years. And Evans, as you mention. He made some great plays, no doubt, but he got bailed out a lot too. And always had a ton of time.



He'll have a top 5 talented WR, if they guy ever stays off the weed. [:D]



Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 8:55:21 PM)

We shall see on QBs. Glad y'all shared your opinions.



djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 9:00:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

One more thing.
Manziel had a top 10 in the draft LT covering his ass and a 6'5 tall top 10 receiver hauling in a lot of his Hail Marys.

Make a guy look awful good with that support network in place in my opinion.


This. I think Manziel has a chance to be very good with his presence, etc. But man did he have some talent around him. He had 2 top 5 talents on the OL with him in consecutive years. And Evans, as you mention. He made some great plays, no doubt, but he got bailed out a lot too. And always had a ton of time.



He'll have a top 5 talented WR, if they guy ever stays off the weed. [:D]


Tough to think Gordon ever will at this point. Dude already cost himself tens of millions of dollars with this latest mistake. If that didn't teach him, I'm not sure what will. HUGE loss for the Browns.

The biggest reason I don't think Johnny succeeds? It's the Browns. The fact that the team spent $150K to tell them who to draft (Teddy) and then went the other way tells you all you need to know.



SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 9:00:43 PM)

Agreed, Ed.
Good to hear what people are thinking about the choices. 
As has been said, we will all just have to wait it out.
It's funny, however, how this thread (not surprisingly) is the one that creeps close towards the
I'M A GENIUS AND YOU'RE AN IDIOT standard of the other, more-inhabited topics further up the page.
[&:][&:][&:]

Must be something about Purple.



SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 9:03:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

One more thing.
Manziel had a top 10 in the draft LT covering his ass and a 6'5 tall top 10 receiver hauling in a lot of his Hail Marys.

Make a guy look awful good with that support network in place in my opinion.


This. I think Manziel has a chance to be very good with his presence, etc. But man did he have some talent around him. He had 2 top 5 talents on the OL with him in consecutive years. And Evans, as you mention. He made some great plays, no doubt, but he got bailed out a lot too. And always had a ton of time.



He'll have a top 5 talented WR, if they guy ever stays off the weed. [:D]


Tough to think Gordon ever will at this point. Dude already cost himself tens of millions of dollars with this latest mistake. If that didn't teach him, I'm not sure what will. HUGE loss for the Browns.

The biggest reason I don't think Johnny succeeds? It's the Browns. The fact that the team spent $150K to tell them who to draft (Teddy) and then went the other way tells you all you need to know.


Exactly.
Cleveland isn't a great destination for him or probably anyone.
Worse, supposedly the Browns KNOW this year-long ban for Gordon is coming ... and in a WR-rich draft, they don't take any.



McMurfy -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 9:13:56 PM)

Now a funny story.
The night before I met my wife, I met a girl at a dueling piano bar playing pool.
The last girl I was WITH, before I met my wife.
It turns out pool table girl was a stripper by trade.
The last thing she said to me, on the morning of the day I met my wife, after taking a phone call was this.

"You have to leave, my boyfriend is coming up the elevator. He is very big and very much the jealous type, take the stairs."

That night and thereafter, I never regretted taking the pretty girl from the midwest, with a career, over the stripper.

I think the Vikings did the same thing.

Don't forget also that Manziel has oil money to fall back on.
Good old Texas blue blood oil family, part of what you sometimes get from small town Texas.

I have no issues with that, but how hard do you think he will work?
You need to work at being a good NFL QB, on and off the field, in the film room, in your hotel room.

Will he do it?

I wish him well, I hope he does well and adds some excitement to his team and the league, but I would not bet his star potential over a pretty safe bet.

Watch some Bridgewater tape, watch his play action, watch his progressions, watch him stand in the pocket.

I think he'll be really good.



twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 9:20:28 PM)

Muff, that was pretty funny. And Leber agrees with your take on manziel. Granted, it's not fair to judge him 100 percent on where he comes from, but as Leber said, it's all part of the calculation that nfl execs make.



David Levine -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/12/2014 9:22:40 PM)

Patriot’s leaked scouting report on Manziel:

http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/johnny-manziel-scouting-report-new-england-patriots/



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