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RE: 2016 NBA Draft

 
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/13/2016 1:02:39 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

No crap guys...why is there so much love for Harris? Judas. Pay 20 Million for someone that can actually dominate the game or trade the pick for someone that isn't a 2 inch taller version of Bazz. We already have enough stretch 4s...


Guys?

I've been saying I don't like Harris - but he's worth his contract in today's NBA. The numbers that are going to get thrown around this summer are going to make your head spin.

Actually the 4 is the position where we really need to find an upgrade.

Yepper. I know why Wiggins is cheaper than Harris and he is good value for some teams. Not our team. I would rather get another athletic big or killer defense SF/SG....Harris reminds me of Bazz, albeit a little bigger. We don't need 2 of that type.
Better than Bazz in virtually every way. As I'm saying if Harris isn't good enough for you to trade our pick than forget about trading our pick. We will not be getting someone better than Harris for it.


True, Harris is better than Bazz but the way Belly played as the stretch 4 make me think Harris isn't a fit at that money (at 14, 16, or 20 million) and he isn't a lockdown defender.


Right now the top 8 picks are Simmons, Ingram, Hield, Dunn, Sabonis, Bender, and Murray. We have literally no chance picking 8th and 8% to pick 7th....Tough to give that up if there is a similar FA (to Harris) out there.

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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/13/2016 1:07:27 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Right now the top 8 picks are Simmons, Ingram, Hield, Dunn, Sabonis, Bender, and Murray. We have literally no chance picking 8th and 8% to pick 7th....Tough to give that up if there is a similar FA (to Harris) out there.


Sabonis? I doubt he goes in the lottery, let alone Top 8. He could be the 8th or 10th PF drafted.

I don't see Jaylen Brown dropping out of the Top 8, either.

What an awful lottery. Yikes. I'd have no problem trading down or out if we don't move up.
Post #: 27
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/13/2016 1:14:02 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

No crap guys...why is there so much love for Harris? Judas. Pay 20 Million for someone that can actually dominate the game or trade the pick for someone that isn't a 2 inch taller version of Bazz. We already have enough stretch 4s...


Guys?

I've been saying I don't like Harris - but he's worth his contract in today's NBA. The numbers that are going to get thrown around this summer are going to make your head spin.

Actually the 4 is the position where we really need to find an upgrade.

Yepper. I know why Wiggins is cheaper than Harris and he is good value for some teams. Not our team. I would rather get another athletic big or killer defense SF/SG....Harris reminds me of Bazz, albeit a little bigger. We don't need 2 of that type.
Better than Bazz in virtually every way. As I'm saying if Harris isn't good enough for you to trade our pick than forget about trading our pick. We will not be getting someone better than Harris for it.


True, Harris is better than Bazz but the way Belly played as the stretch 4 make me think Harris isn't a fit at that money (at 14, 16, or 20 million) and he isn't a lockdown defender.


Right now the top 8 picks are Simmons, Ingram, Hield, Dunn, Sabonis, Bender, and Murray. We have literally no chance picking 8th and 8% to pick 7th....Tough to give that up if there is a similar FA (to Harris) out there.

Was really something the way that Bjelica finished the season after disappearing for most of it. IMO we have the pieces in place already on the team to compete for a title. That might sound crazy considering our record this season. Tyus might even become an adequate backup PG.
I don't see us getting a starter in this draft, but a guy like Hield a light's out shooter sure would be nice to add. I like Dieng and Bjelica but a bad ass enforcer type PF would sure be nice to add. Shooter and Bad Ass PF those are the two things we need.

EDIT: make it three things we need. I haven't given up on Tyus but a bigger stronger more athletic PG would be nice. I hear there is a guy named Dunn that could fill that bill. Can Dunn shoot? If so he could fill two of the three needs.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 4/13/2016 1:17:51 PM >
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/13/2016 1:15:43 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Right now the top 8 picks are Simmons, Ingram, Hield, Dunn, Sabonis, Bender, and Murray. We have literally no chance picking 8th and 8% to pick 7th....Tough to give that up if there is a similar FA (to Harris) out there.


Sabonis? I doubt he goes in the lottery, let alone Top 8. He could be the 8th or 10th PF drafted.

I don't see Jaylen Brown dropping out of the Top 8, either.

What an awful lottery. Yikes. I'd have no problem trading down or out if we don't move up.

I haven't seen him play but everything I'm hearing about Sabonis makes me expect him to go lottery. If not pretty soon after. As of now I wouldn't have a problem with the Wolves drafting him.
Post #: 29
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/18/2016 8:46:20 PM   
kgdabom

 

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I'm seeing a lot of Jamal Murray to the Wolves ahead of Buddy Hield. I don't watch college ball. Does Murray seem like a better choice or not?
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/23/2016 11:58:30 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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After May 19th this confusing issue will start to take focus. (the lottery) I appreciate reading what you guys have to say. You know a lot.

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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/24/2016 2:12:16 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I'm seeing a lot of Jamal Murray to the Wolves ahead of Buddy Hield. I don't watch college ball. Does Murray seem like a better choice or not?

Hield plays no defense. But James Harden doesn't play much either.

With Thibodeau as coach, I doubt the Wolves take Hield.
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/24/2016 2:34:10 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I'm seeing a lot of Jamal Murray to the Wolves ahead of Buddy Hield. I don't watch college ball. Does Murray seem like a better choice or not?

Hield plays no defense. But James Harden doesn't play much either.

With Thibodeau as coach, I doubt the Wolves take Hield.

Can you give me your source for this? Personal evaluation or a specific or multiple draft site? This is the first I have heard that he plays no defense.
Post #: 33
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/24/2016 2:53:16 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I'm seeing a lot of Jamal Murray to the Wolves ahead of Buddy Hield. I don't watch college ball. Does Murray seem like a better choice or not?

Hield plays no defense. But James Harden doesn't play much either.

With Thibodeau as coach, I doubt the Wolves take Hield.


If Heidl had the handle and ability to get to the line like Harden does, he'd be a starter in this league even without playing defense.

Instead he's just a guy who shoots - and doesn't appear to do anything else at a plus level.
Post #: 34
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/24/2016 4:45:43 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I'm seeing a lot of Jamal Murray to the Wolves ahead of Buddy Hield. I don't watch college ball. Does Murray seem like a better choice or not?

Hield plays no defense. But James Harden doesn't play much either.

With Thibodeau as coach, I doubt the Wolves take Hield.

Can you give me your source for this? Personal evaluation or a specific or multiple draft site? This is the first I have heard that he plays no defense.

Not an expert opinion. Just me watching about 6 of his games.
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 4/24/2016 4:55:07 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I'm seeing a lot of Jamal Murray to the Wolves ahead of Buddy Hield. I don't watch college ball. Does Murray seem like a better choice or not?

Hield plays no defense. But James Harden doesn't play much either.

With Thibodeau as coach, I doubt the Wolves take Hield.

Can you give me your source for this? Personal evaluation or a specific or multiple draft site? This is the first I have heard that he plays no defense.

Not an expert opinion. Just me watching about 6 of his games.

So who of similar quality plays good defense? I think a wing shooter an adequate backup PG and a Ben Wallace type would fill out our team perfectly.
Post #: 36
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/5/2016 9:28:04 AM   
kgdabom

 

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ESPN has the draft lottery game up now. I played it ten times and had the Wolves in the top 3 6 times . However, in the most likely occurrence of us drafting 6 ESPN had us taking Ellenson three times and we even took him when drafting 5th. Yuck.
Simmons went first when we got the #1 pick and they had us taking Bender when picking third.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/5/2016 10:20:35 AM >
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/5/2016 8:56:23 PM   
kgdabom

 

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I played the lottery game several more times and i have confirmed what ESPN sees as the Wolves top four draft favorites. Simmons, Ingram, Bender and Ellenson. No matter what happens in front of us whether we get pick 5-6-7 We take Ellenson every time.
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 10:24:07 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I played the lottery game several more times and i have confirmed what ESPN sees as the Wolves top four draft favorites. Simmons, Ingram, Bender and Ellenson. No matter what happens in front of us whether we get pick 5-6-7 We take Ellenson every time.


May 17th is when they decide the lottery?

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Post #: 39
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 10:48:26 AM   
El Duderino


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I'm seeing a lot of Jamal Murray to the Wolves ahead of Buddy Hield. I don't watch college ball. Does Murray seem like a better choice or not?


I'm in the same boat as you. Just looking at basic information out there, he's a 6'3" combo guard who appears to score in volume - 20 ppg on 15 attempts - and it looks like he doesn't create much for others - 2.2 apg. Based on this admittedly very small amount of information, I would pass. I don't see how he fits. It seems like best case scenario is that he could be an upgrade of Bazz. And at that height, I'm not so sure the upgrade would be on the defensive end.

Disclaimer - this is entirely based on extrapolating from basic stats. I never saw him play, so maybe he does stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, and really would be a great pick.

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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 11:24:10 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: El Duderino

I'm in the same boat as you. Just looking at basic information out there, he's a 6'3" combo guard who appears to score in volume - 20 ppg on 15 attempts - and it looks like he doesn't create much for others - 2.2 apg. Based on this admittedly very small amount of information, I would pass. I don't see how he fits. It seems like best case scenario is that he could be an upgrade of Bazz. And at that height, I'm not so sure the upgrade would be on the defensive end.

Disclaimer - this is entirely based on extrapolating from basic stats. I never saw him play, so maybe he does stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, and really would be a great pick.


Its his age and position that is making some people put him ahead of Heidl. He just put up a tremendous shooting season (over 40% on 3s on almost 8 attempts) while only being 18 years old for pretty much the whole season.

As a 3rd guard he could probably play with Rubio, Zach or Drew and potentially play a CJ McCollum type of role.

He has a ways to go as a playmaker and defender, but he's really young, so there is upside.

There really isn't anyone to get too excited about in this draft - even the top 2 guys have significant questions/red flags. I'll be happy if we come out of it with a solid bench player.
Post #: 41
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 12:05:19 PM   
David Levine


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"TheMoon" over at Canis with a couple draft breakdowns:

buddy hield is a project. he played 4 years in college, but hes a project. his only chance of being playable next year is if he has a hardaway jr-esque shooting season as a rookie. but morrow is a great, great shooter, and he barely plays. another thing about shooting: i looked at the past 10 years of per40 3PTA stats on DX, and there are very, very few guys who have attempted >8 3PTers per40 and became even decent nba players.

he has some nice raw athleticism and little more off the bounce stuff than i thought. maybe theres something there? but hes a bad defender. i feel like i know that. its normal for a guy to gamble when hes so much of his team’s offense, but hield gambles incorrectly a lot. just reads the play wrong.

CEILING: Cuttino Modley
MEZZANINE: Marcus Thornton
FLOOR: John Jenkins

Skal:
what is this? its like the opening of Blue Velvet where lynch pans through this nice little burb and suddenly theres a disembodied human ear on the grass right next to the inflatable kiddie pool. isnt the relevant question with skal: should he be drafted? not: where in the lotto should he be drafted? old, inefficient, very nearly picks up a personal foul for every rebound he grabs (seriously), horrible feel for the game, &c. it was a real chore to watch this guy. all he does is take long 2s. even his highlights are tedious. i think these are pretty generous:

CEILING: Mark Blount
MEZZANINE: Jason Smith
FLOOR: Steven Hunter

< Message edited by David Levine -- 5/6/2016 12:07:21 PM >
Post #: 42
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 12:08:19 PM   
David Levine


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More from "TheMoon":

it would be really funny if the wolves drafted jaylen brown, because you could sort of build his style, body type, and skillset completely using only the styles, body types, and skillsets of both wiggins and shabazz.

basically, hes this excellent run and jump athlete who is super strong, and whose best skill by far is being aggressive and running into people. hes an erratic shooter, an erratic decision maker, and fairly graceless considering how good an athlete he is in other ways. his BBIQ is extremely questionable.

and i feel like ive been saying this for every player so far ive looked at, but its odd that his team is as bad as it is considering the talent supposedly on it. Cal has 3 guys who are going to get drafted. why are they this bad?

i have to say, i did not enjoy watching this guy play.

assuming brown is good enough to stay in the league, i have his comps like this:

TOP FLOOR: Richard Jefferson, or maybe Corey Maggette
MEZZANINE: Desmond Mason
BASEMENT: Donald Royal or Willie Barton
Post #: 43
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 12:08:38 PM   
David Levine


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man, poeltl is a monster at the college level. these kids have absolutely no idea what to do with a guy who is that big and that amazing at finishing around the hoop.
hes really kind of brilliant at the latter. uses both hands, great touch, great feel for how to use the glass, has a few moves that look pretty good.

he seems pretty heady. he has a better AST to TO ratio than ingram and murry. i like that he improved his FT% by a ton this year. i think hes also shooting over 40% on 2pt jumpers. so he might have a little range in the future. i also like that his efficiency is the same even after he lost a great PG and boosted his USG% a ton.

hes more athletic than i thought he would be. there was one play i watched (i think against duke) where he got a steal and took the ball all the way to the hoop for a dunk. im pretty sure grayson allen was trying to catch him and failed. so hes surprisingly fast.

doesnt seem like a great rebounder or defender, but he doesnt look horrible like simmons does. poeltl’s team is doing ok, and thats mostly him. i dont think any of his teammates are good.

his comps are sort of hard, but id go with something like this:

CEILING: Robin Lopez, or maybe Bogut (yeah, yeah: big, white, Utah. its too easy. but there actually are some similarities in what theyve done as college players)
MEZZANINE: Koufos. maybe Chris Kaman?
FLOOR: uh, i dont know. Kristic maybe?

one thing about poeltl is that i think he has an extremely low bust%. guys who arent undersized for their nba position who put up +30 PERs in major college conferences all have nba careers. pretty much none of them play 3 years and then wash out because they cant cut it.

so far i think hes better than ellenson and brown and worse than simmons and ingram. maybe on par with dunn. i dont know yet how id rank them respectively.
Post #: 44
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 12:09:02 PM   
David Levine


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ive been looking a bit at jamal murray lately and i can see why people are interested in him.

hes a very tough matchup at the college level. you see him guarded by these forwards and he just runs them off screens they have no speed or agility to navigate. he gets a lot of open 3s like that. or theyll put some college guard on him, and at a very strong 6’5’’ he either shoots over them or drives through them. he also has enough moves to get guys off balance a bit. actually its weird, because i think his handle has gotten a little tighter just over the course of the ncaa season.

people thought this guy was possibly a PG? i have no idea why someone would think that. dude drives with his head down all the time. i dont think he has any instinct for primary playmaking at this time, even at the college level.

hes really big and strong for a college guard, which makes his poor performance in the physical boxscore categories more concerning. hes an okay finisher, and he can use both hands it looks like. he doesnt get to the rim as much as you would like. he generally underwhelms i think relative to his size and decent speed and quickness.

maybe he can shoot. he takes like 8 3s per40 and makes 40%, which is outstanding. his FT% is not outstanding, and his 2pt% on jumpers is okay. id be concerned at how often he is shooting either open or against a guy 4 inches shorter than he is.

i have his comps like this:

CEILING: Allan Houston. or, if he can learn to create a bit better, Ben Gordon
MEZZANINE: Belinelli
FLOOR: Roger Mason, or maybe Kareem Rush

sidenote: i really wish tyler ullis was not so incredibly small, but i think i would take him in the 2nd anyway. i noticed him a bit in these murray videos and he was always around when good stuff was happening. people seem to adore his personality as well, which is something i think is really important in non-lotto picks.
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 12:27:49 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

CEILING: Mark Blount
MEZZANINE: Jason Smith
FLOOR: Steven Hunter


The only way a ceiling can be Mark Blount is if the whole house collapsed.

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Post #: 46
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 12:41:13 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

CEILING: Mark Blount
MEZZANINE: Jason Smith
FLOOR: Steven Hunter


The only way a ceiling can be Mark Blount is if the whole house collapsed.


Mark Blount played 10 seasons and made 45M. You can do much, much worse.
Post #: 47
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 12:47:49 PM   
TJSweens


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Oh he was tremendous at stealing money. No doubt about that. I'm just saying if he is the ceiling, the other guys must be the root cellar.

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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 1:55:07 PM   
Matt Lang


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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/6/2016 1:58:42 PM   
Matt Lang


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I don't really like any of the draft choices. I'd almost rather trade the pick to get Thad Young back if the salaries matched.
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