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RE: 2016 NBA Draft

 
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RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 2:38:16 PM   
drew

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'd still happily take Davis at #5. He's the guy Thibs could mold into a killer defender.

I just can't get excited about Murray, Dunn or Hield.


I trust your track record enough to get on board for Davis.

Funny thing is I watched the Spartans I'd bet at least 5 times this year and I hardly remember him.
Post #: 176
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 3:34:09 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: drew

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'd still happily take Davis at #5. He's the guy Thibs could mold into a killer defender.

I just can't get excited about Murray, Dunn or Hield.


I trust your track record enough to get on board for Davis.

Funny thing is I watched the Spartans I'd bet at least 5 times this year and I hardly remember him.


I'd guess because most of his value came on defense and rebounding (especially offensive, where he was a killer).

He's raw, but has tremendous upside.

quote:

The best attributes Davis offers at this point likely revolve around his defense. He's quick and agile enough to stay in front of pretty much any power forward, and should be able to add enough bulk to his excellent frame to hold his own as a small-ball center in time. He has great potential as a pick and roll defender, already showing terrific flashes stepping out and switching onto guards and wings, covering ground and moving his feet with excellent lateral quickness, and being difficult to shoot over with the way he contests looks on the perimeter. He blocks an impressive 4.1 shots per-40 minutes this season as well, many on the ball, while showing the ability to develop into an excellent rim-protector in time.

Davis also rebounded very effectively as a freshman, more so offensively than defensively, but nevertheless showed impressive flashes on both ends that could lead to even better results as he continues to add bulk to his excellent frame. He is quick to the ball, and has great hands, often going out of his area and getting off his feet before other big men can react. While his intensity level was inconsistent at times in other areas, he rebounded with great purpose throughout the year, which should give him an immediate role early on in his career when combined with ability to contribute defensively.



http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Deyonta-Davis-81960/
Post #: 177
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 3:51:09 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'd still happily take Davis at #5. He's the guy Thibs could mold into a killer defender.

I just can't get excited about Murray, Dunn or Hield.

I'm predicting two of those three at least end up being starters. I would be happy with any of those three.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 178
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 3:54:19 PM   
Stacey King


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'd still happily take Davis at #5. He's the guy Thibs could mold into a killer defender.

I just can't get excited about Murray, Dunn or Hield.

I'm predicting two of those three at least end up being starters. I would be happy with any of those three.


Kinda worried about Hield. You are not?
Post #: 179
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 3:58:19 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'd still happily take Davis at #5. He's the guy Thibs could mold into a killer defender.

I just can't get excited about Murray, Dunn or Hield.

I'm predicting two of those three at least end up being starters. I would be happy with any of those three.


Kinda worried about Hield. You are not?

Not very. I think he is very NBA ready. The one that I would most doubt being a starter is Dunn. Seems like a poor mans Rondo. However, I would still like him on the Wolves to back up Rubio.

_____________________________

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So let it be done."
Post #: 180
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 4:05:33 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'd still happily take Davis at #5. He's the guy Thibs could mold into a killer defender.

I just can't get excited about Murray, Dunn or Hield.

I'm predicting two of those three at least end up being starters. I would be happy with any of those three.


Kinda worried about Hield. You are not?


Yup. If his shot doesn't fall at a really high clip, there isn't much else he provides.

I'm not sure why Valentine shouldn't be drafted ahead of him. No, he's not a great athlete (although he killed the lane agility test), but he's a way better passer and rebounder than Buddy, and he has a longer track record of being a great shooter.
Post #: 181
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 4:09:04 PM   
Stacey King


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Maybe Hield can have a Michael Redd type career
Post #: 182
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 4:22:32 PM   
ruffenach

 

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People have mentioned that there is a 18 year old European big that teams might like. No one has talked about him
Post #: 183
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 4:28:22 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

People have mentioned that there is a 18 year old European big that teams might like. No one has talked about him


Bender?

There is almost no chance he's available at 5.
Post #: 184
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 4:35:24 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

People have mentioned that there is a 18 year old European big that teams might like. No one has talked about him


Bender?

There is almost no chance he's available at 5.

You talking about that guy who just scored 91 points in a game. Something like Yesebali?

_____________________________

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So let it be done."
Post #: 185
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 5:12:36 PM   
ruffenach

 

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Yes
Post #: 186
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 5:17:31 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

Yes


We don't talk about Bender like we don't talk about Simmons and Ingram. If he somehow gets past the #3 pick, there is almost no chance Phoenix doesn't grab him at #4.
Post #: 187
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 5:36:14 PM   
kgdabom

 

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

Yes


We don't talk about Bender like we don't talk about Simmons and Ingram. If he somehow gets past the #3 pick, there is almost no chance Phoenix doesn't grab him at #4.

Were you saying yes to me or yes to DL. I think DL has me on ignore so he would have no clue you were responding to me.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/22/2016 5:56:55 PM >


_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 188
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 5:40:17 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Maybe Hield can have a Michael Redd type career

Rolando Blackman
Post #: 189
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/22/2016 5:41:02 PM   
Stacey King


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Maybe Hield can have a Michael Redd type career

Rolando Blackman

I'd take half of that.

Ro was good.
Post #: 190
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/24/2016 11:20:09 AM   
David Levine


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"The Moon" on Valentine:

This is the most fascinating player in the draft, so this is going to be a long one. I think it will be easiest to look at three sides of Denzel Valentine. There’s his offensive side from above the free throw line extended. There’s his offensive side below that line. And there is his defensive side.

Above the free throw line extended is where Valentine is a kind of genius. Easily the most dangerous player in college in this area. As a shooter, he was every bit as good as Buddy Hield this year; and as a passer he had no equal. He is outstanding at running PnRs in the middle of the floor. He keeps his head up very well and he is almost inerrant in exploiting any confusion in the opposing PnR coverage. It should be noted that he himself creates much of this confusion because his outside shot is so powerful.

One thing he does really well is exploit the opponent’s second defensive rotation, or rather lack thereof. So one of MSU’s guys will fake his defender out and cut to the basket. One of the defender’s teammates will rotate to cover this lapse. Instead of trying to hit the cutter, Valentine hesitates and then passes to the man vacated by the help defender on the MSU cutter. And this guy will usually be wide, wide open. Valentine did a lot of damage like this, especially in transition, and he really made use of the fact that MSU had four rotation players who shot over 40% from three.

Side Note 1: It looked to me like he and his team got a lot of their offense in transition. They, and in particular Valentine, really seemed to understand how to exploit a confused defense. Using hoop-math.com to compare MSU to other top 25 colleges, it does appear as though they were among the most prolific transition offenses in the country. I have no idea whether that is a good thing or not for Valentine.

Side Note 2: The score-keepers in Lansing were clearly hunting for triple doubles for Denzel. In one game versus Ohio State, Valentine passed to his guy in the corner, that guy faked a pass, put the ball on the floor for one dribble, and shot the ball. That was called an assist for Valentine. In the same game Valentine threw an entry pass in to Matt Costello. Costello caught the ball, dribbled twice into the lane, and threw up a righty hook that went splash. Another assist for Valentine. There were many, many similar situations in the footage I watched.

Below the foul line offense is where Valentine’s flaws start to manifest. We know from hoop-math.com that Valentine doesn’t get himself to the basket very often. Only 16% of his FGAs were around the rim. Once at the rim, Valentine only converted at a 60% rate. What is more, 46% of his makes at the rim were assisted. All of these numbers are very poor for a guard or a wing. They suggest what is obvious from viewing: Denzel Valentine rarely gets himself clean looks in the paint. Everything is contested and difficult and awkward. Even his passing in the paint begins to feel less clinical and more desperate.

He has a weird floater/hook shot arsenal. Honestly it’s really ugly shit. It’s often the case that you can’t tell whether he is trying to shoot a floater or throw a lob. If you’ve ever seen Matthew Dellavadova play in the pros then you’ve seen this sort of thing before.

And then there’s defense, where Valentine’s flaws come at you like a violent tidal bore. Valentine has great size for a guard and solid size for a wing, but he is an extremely poor athlete by the standards of NBA perimeter players. He cannot jump, he’s slow up and down, forward and backward, side to side. If he is going to play on this end in the NBA it is going to require an extraordinary amount of focus, preparation, attention to detail, and maximizing every bit of athleticism he has. Even then I’m not sure what position he is supposed to defend. I seriously doubt he will be able to defend guards, but that’s where he would need to to use his size advantage. Once he shifts to forwards then he’s still slow but now he’s also small. I look at some of the guys I would like to compare him to and they are all bigger than Valentine, often by quite a bit.

How good a rebounder will he be? That appears to be his strong suit as a defender. I have a little rule which goes as follows: if you want to know a non-point guard NCAA perimeter player’s pro TRB%, simply look at their per40 minute pace adjusted rebound number and add a "%" after it. So since Valentine grabbed 9.3 rebounds per40 pace adjusted, I would expect his pro TRB% to be about 9.3%. That is very good. It would rank him 15th in the league this year among perimeter players with +500 minutes. But it isn’t quite elite, and with his numerous other defensive red flags I do think he would basically have to rebound like a power forward to justify starter’s minutes.

CEILING: Mike Miller
MEZZANINE: I have no idea
FLOOR: Jason Kapono
Post #: 191
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/24/2016 4:16:39 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: drew

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'd still happily take Davis at #5. He's the guy Thibs could mold into a killer defender.

I just can't get excited about Murray, Dunn or Hield.


I trust your track record enough to get on board for Davis.

Funny thing is I watched the Spartans I'd bet at least 5 times this year and I hardly remember him.


I'd guess because most of his value came on defense and rebounding (especially offensive, where he was a killer).

He's raw, but has tremendous upside.

quote:

The best attributes Davis offers at this point likely revolve around his defense. He's quick and agile enough to stay in front of pretty much any power forward, and should be able to add enough bulk to his excellent frame to hold his own as a small-ball center in time. He has great potential as a pick and roll defender, already showing terrific flashes stepping out and switching onto guards and wings, covering ground and moving his feet with excellent lateral quickness, and being difficult to shoot over with the way he contests looks on the perimeter. He blocks an impressive 4.1 shots per-40 minutes this season as well, many on the ball, while showing the ability to develop into an excellent rim-protector in time.

Davis also rebounded very effectively as a freshman, more so offensively than defensively, but nevertheless showed impressive flashes on both ends that could lead to even better results as he continues to add bulk to his excellent frame. He is quick to the ball, and has great hands, often going out of his area and getting off his feet before other big men can react. While his intensity level was inconsistent at times in other areas, he rebounded with great purpose throughout the year, which should give him an immediate role early on in his career when combined with ability to contribute defensively.



http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Deyonta-Davis-81960/


Davis certainly fills a need and his ceiling is somewhat of a mystery.

being able to come off the bench and contribute immidiately defensively and rebounding is not only the kind of player Thib's likes but what we are sorely lacking from the 4.

I also like MSU players. lunch bucket types

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 192
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/24/2016 4:19:55 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Valentine

Being unathletic is certainly a red flag at the next level. But the games I watched Valentine simply looked like he was on another level compared to everyone else.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 193
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/24/2016 5:05:59 PM   
TJSweens


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FWIW the scouting reports said that Curry was a poor athlete for a PG.

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Post #: 194
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/24/2016 5:21:30 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

FWIW the scouting reports said that Curry was a poor athlete for a PG.


Ha

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 195
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/24/2016 5:49:15 PM   
Matt Lang


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Luckily no one would be so dumb as to pass on him not once, but twice... Right?!

Post #: 196
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/25/2016 12:40:26 PM   
David Levine


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Another from "The Moon"

It is interesting that Taurean Prince’s draft stock has skyrocketed over the past 15 months when he had what was in many ways a disappointing follow up to his junior season, and his team lost to Yale in the first round of the tournament. I guess it’s because there are so many things about him where you say, "If he gets just a little bit better at this he could be really good". Personally I go back and forth on him.

Prince is pretty huge for a wing, both long and powerfully built. He has long strides, decent explosiveness, decent fluidity, decent quickness…. seriously, every single thing about this guy is "decent".

Except his handle. So many of his ideas in passing and shot creation get subverted by his handle. In open court he reminds me of Al-Faroq Aminu running a break. It’s scary stuff. It is remarkable that he was a point guard in high school back when he was 5’8’’. You might guess that from his court vision, but you would not from his handle. The only move he has is a bad crossover. His handle is the reason why he cannot beat people off the dribble and get all the way to the rim. The ball slows him down so, so much.

What separates Prince from a lot of other "do-shit" guys is that he is a good shooter. He might be the most underrated shooter in the draft. The last two years he has shot over 6 threes per40 and made 38% of them. And not just in spot up situations, either. He takes and makes a lot of tough three pointers. He takes a lot curling off screens, which really surprised me. He also took more unassisted threes this year than Denzel Valentine, Jamal Murray, Malik Beasley, or Brandon Ingram. Perhaps relatedly, Baylor’s guards were really, really bad.

The other thing I like about Prince is his motor. He has strong offensive rebound, steal, and block numbers; but he also had a very high USG% this year. I really appreciate that kind of assertiveness. I think guys like Prince will need that to carve out a role on an NBA team. I also think talent evaluators appreciate not having to spend three years wondering if, maybe, so-and-so isn’t just lacking in confidence or whatever.

CEILING: Demarre Carroll
MEZZANINE: Robert Covington
FLOOR: Eric Williams

i had a really hard time evaluating that end (defense), partly because their scheme was like some hybrid zone and i couldnt really understand what they were trying to do.

so i guess i kind of threw that part out and said to myself, hes got the speed to guard SFs but hes almost as big as a power forward. hes tenacious, he obviously wants to defend, and he fills the defensive boxscore. theres a pretty decent chance he can be taught how to defend by the nba. its not his fault that Baylor felt like a very poorly coached team (watching Prince stuff right after Valentine’s was a revelation. Tom Izzo is a really good coach.)

< Message edited by David Levine -- 5/25/2016 12:44:23 PM >
Post #: 197
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/25/2016 12:41:24 PM   
David Levine


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Interesting.

Brandon Ingram is extremely right-handed, and only appears to be able to shoot from the left side:

Post #: 198
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/26/2016 11:46:28 AM   
David Levine


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I don't get why Wade Baldwin isn't getting more love. He seems to provide a lot of what a combo of the "top 3 guards" do.

Size-wise, he's pretty much a match for Dunn. He's very strong with excellent lateral mobility, and while he's .5" shorter, he has almost 2 more inches of wingspan. Like Dunn, he should be able to guard both backcourt positions.

He's a very good catch and shoot and 3pt (41%) shooter, so he could easily play next to Ricky. And if you play him with Zach, he's a better PG/playmaker than Murray or Hield.
Post #: 199
RE: 2016 NBA Draft - 5/26/2016 1:56:37 PM   
Matt Lang


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http://www.nbadraft.net/players/wade-baldwin

"NBA Comparison: Luther Head" -- I don't really remember Luther very well.

He played with KAT in high school, so that's cool.
Post #: 200
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