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RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 6:15:43 AM   
ruffenach

 

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I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.
Post #: 76
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 9:44:35 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach
I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


They did KAT...may be all the luck we needed.

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Post #: 77
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 12:10:26 PM   
ruffenach

 

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KAT is an extremely good player. We need put pieces around him and not get frustrated with the slow process of rebuilding.
Post #: 78
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 12:13:30 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 71488
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


Amazing how getting the #1 overall pick in a year with a "generational" player can color ones opinion...
Post #: 79
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 12:27:28 PM   
TJSweens


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Especially when there are stories circulated that Flip was ready to take Okafor and it took a huge lobbying effort by Newton and others to get him to take Towns.

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Post #: 80
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 3:01:26 PM   
McMurfy


Posts: 13750
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
Would love to see this guy with the Wolves.
Maybe not with the first pick, but somehow.


http://www.oregonlive.com/nba/index.ssf/2017/05/jordan_bells_stock_rising_at_n.html#incart_most-read_clackamascounty_article

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Post #: 81
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 3:11:44 PM   
ruffenach

 

Posts: 3636
Joined: 1/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


Amazing how getting the #1 overall pick in a year with a "generational" player can color ones opinion...

I believe that Flip did a good job on handling Love and parlaying him for the players that he did. Drafting LaVine was a good move two. There has been other decent moves too. We had a generational player in KG, but could not put a team around him. That is on McHale. Flip had some real limitations as a coach too, but did a good job as a GM.
Post #: 82
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 3:24:59 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 71488
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


Amazing how getting the #1 overall pick in a year with a "generational" player can color ones opinion...

I believe that Flip did a good job on handling Love and parlaying him for the players that he did. Drafting LaVine was a good move two. There has been other decent moves too. We had a generational player in KG, but could not put a team around him. That is on McHale. Flip had some real limitations as a coach too, but did a good job as a GM.


The Wiggins and LaVine moves still look just OK after 3 years. If we didn't have KAT, our future would look awfully bleak right now.

The "players" we got for Love? Besides Wiggins, we got possibly the biggest #1 overall bust in NBA history and a future 1st round pick that he turned into half a season of a "didn't want to be here" Thad Young and then 5 games of Kevin Garnett.

The Bazz draft was an absolute clinic on what not to do. He had 8 players scouted while holding the 9th pick, so when the draft went exactly as everyone else planned, he went into scramble #1. Then when he moved down, everyone knew who he was targeting, so Boston was able to snipe that layer causing scramble #3 involving him drafting a guy that had been reported as being off our board and actually apologizing to the fans afterwards.

Not to mention selling a 1st round pick on a talent-starved team (a pick that was right before Utah took Gobert - a player that Flip later said he thought was a lottery talent...).

Dieng was a decent pick. Tyus was a decent pick (that we paid too much for).

The Payne trade is and was at the time inexcusable from any standpoint.

Flip wasn't a nightmare or anything, but he was still a below average GM whose best move was not screwing up the KAT pick.
Post #: 83
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 5:45:39 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Would love to see this guy with the Wolves.
Maybe not with the first pick, but somehow.


http://www.oregonlive.com/nba/index.ssf/2017/05/jordan_bells_stock_rising_at_n.html#incart_most-read_clackamascounty_article


He's a guy that I'd love to grab late 1st/early 2nd.

At worst, he's probably a super useful "small-ball big". Ideally he'll show the ability to guard bigger wings at the next level and be a really valuable/versitile defensive stopper that also gives you rebounding and finishing.
Post #: 84
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 5:56:41 PM   
ruffenach

 

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There are a lot of front office people who make their best moves by not screwing up an obvious pick. Too many people over think things. Reasonable people can disagree on Flip. The jury is still out on his choices. A lot will depend on how much Thibs can coach them up.
Post #: 85
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 6:04:36 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 71488
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

There are a lot of front office people who make their best moves by not screwing up an obvious pick.


And those are the front offices that never rise beyond mediocre.
Post #: 86
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 7:25:38 PM   
Sandman

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 4/6/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


Amazing how getting the #1 overall pick in a year with a "generational" player can color ones opinion...

I believe that Flip did a good job on handling Love and parlaying him for the players that he did. Drafting LaVine was a good move two. There has been other decent moves too. We had a generational player in KG, but could not put a team around him. That is on McHale. Flip had some real limitations as a coach too, but did a good job as a GM.


The Wiggins and LaVine moves still look just OK after 3 years. If we didn't
have KAT, our future would look awfully bleak right now.

The "players" we got for Love? Besides Wiggins, we got possibly the biggest #1 overall bust in NBA history and a future 1st round pick that he turned into half a season of a "didn't want to be here" Thad Young and then 5 games of Kevin Garnett.

The Bazz draft was an absolute clinic on what not to do. He had 8 players scouted while holding the 9th pick, so when the draft went exactly as everyone else planned, he went into scramble #1. Then when he moved down, everyone knew who he was targeting, so Boston was able to snipe that layer causing scramble #3 involving him drafting a guy that had been reported as being off our board and actually apologizing to the fans afterwards.

Not to mention selling a 1st round pick on a talent-starved team (a pick that was right before Utah took Gobert - a player that Flip later said he thought was a lottery talent...).

Dieng was a decent pick. Tyus was a decent pick (that we paid too much for).

The Payne trade is and was at the time inexcusable from any standpoint.

Flip wasn't a nightmare or anything, but he was still a below average GM whose best move was not screwing up the KAT pick.

And wasn't he within an eyelash of doing that? (drafting Okafor)

I'd call Flip a disaster. What he did in the 2013 draft can't be defended.
Post #: 87
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/15/2017 11:23:32 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 29541
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sandman

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


Amazing how getting the #1 overall pick in a year with a "generational" player can color ones opinion...

I believe that Flip did a good job on handling Love and parlaying him for the players that he did. Drafting LaVine was a good move two. There has been other decent moves too. We had a generational player in KG, but could not put a team around him. That is on McHale. Flip had some real limitations as a coach too, but did a good job as a GM.


The Wiggins and LaVine moves still look just OK after 3 years. If we didn't
have KAT, our future would look awfully bleak right now.

The "players" we got for Love? Besides Wiggins, we got possibly the biggest #1 overall bust in NBA history and a future 1st round pick that he turned into half a season of a "didn't want to be here" Thad Young and then 5 games of Kevin Garnett.

The Bazz draft was an absolute clinic on what not to do. He had 8 players scouted while holding the 9th pick, so when the draft went exactly as everyone else planned, he went into scramble #1. Then when he moved down, everyone knew who he was targeting, so Boston was able to snipe that layer causing scramble #3 involving him drafting a guy that had been reported as being off our board and actually apologizing to the fans afterwards.

Not to mention selling a 1st round pick on a talent-starved team (a pick that was right before Utah took Gobert - a player that Flip later said he thought was a lottery talent...).

Dieng was a decent pick. Tyus was a decent pick (that we paid too much for).

The Payne trade is and was at the time inexcusable from any standpoint.

Flip wasn't a nightmare or anything, but he was still a below average GM whose best move was not screwing up the KAT pick.

And wasn't he within an eyelash of doing that? (drafting Okafor)

I'd call Flip a disaster. What he did in the 2013 draft can't be defended.

What he was rumored to almost have done doesn't mean shit. What he did is all that matters.

_____________________________

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So let it be done."
Post #: 88
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 7:15:03 AM   
ruffenach

 

Posts: 3636
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sandman

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


Amazing how getting the #1 overall pick in a year with a "generational" player can color ones opinion...

I believe that Flip did a good job on handling Love and parlaying him for the players that he did. Drafting LaVine was a good move two. There has been other decent moves too. We had a generational player in KG, but could not put a team around him. That is on McHale. Flip had some real limitations as a coach too, but did a good job as a GM.


The Wiggins and LaVine moves still look just OK after 3 years. If we didn't
have KAT, our future would look awfully bleak right now.

The "players" we got for Love? Besides Wiggins, we got possibly the biggest #1 overall bust in NBA history and a future 1st round pick that he turned into half a season of a "didn't want to be here" Thad Young and then 5 games of Kevin Garnett.

The Bazz draft was an absolute clinic on what not to do. He had 8 players scouted while holding the 9th pick, so when the draft went exactly as everyone else planned, he went into scramble #1. Then when he moved down, everyone knew who he was targeting, so Boston was able to snipe that layer causing scramble #3 involving him drafting a guy that had been reported as being off our board and actually apologizing to the fans afterwards.

Not to mention selling a 1st round pick on a talent-starved team (a pick that was right before Utah took Gobert - a player that Flip later said he thought was a lottery talent...).

Dieng was a decent pick. Tyus was a decent pick (that we paid too much for).

The Payne trade is and was at the time inexcusable from any standpoint.

Flip wasn't a nightmare or anything, but he was still a below average GM whose best move was not screwing up the KAT pick.

And wasn't he within an eyelash of doing that? (drafting Okafor)

I'd call Flip a disaster. What he did in the 2013 draft can't be defended.

What he was rumored to almost have done doesn't mean shit. What he did is all that matters.

I have to agree with you.
Post #: 89
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 7:19:24 AM   
ruffenach

 

Posts: 3636
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

There are a lot of front office people who make their best moves by not screwing up an obvious pick.


And those are the front offices that never rise beyond mediocre.

I agree with you here. If you want to judge some one based on rumors. That is your right, but it under cuts your analysis. Any body can rumor any thing.
Post #: 90
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 10:13:46 AM   
McMurfy


Posts: 13750
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sandman

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


Amazing how getting the #1 overall pick in a year with a "generational" player can color ones opinion...

I believe that Flip did a good job on handling Love and parlaying him for the players that he did. Drafting LaVine was a good move two. There has been other decent moves too. We had a generational player in KG, but could not put a team around him. That is on McHale. Flip had some real limitations as a coach too, but did a good job as a GM.


The Wiggins and LaVine moves still look just OK after 3 years. If we didn't
have KAT, our future would look awfully bleak right now.

The "players" we got for Love? Besides Wiggins, we got possibly the biggest #1 overall bust in NBA history and a future 1st round pick that he turned into half a season of a "didn't want to be here" Thad Young and then 5 games of Kevin Garnett.

The Bazz draft was an absolute clinic on what not to do. He had 8 players scouted while holding the 9th pick, so when the draft went exactly as everyone else planned, he went into scramble #1. Then when he moved down, everyone knew who he was targeting, so Boston was able to snipe that layer causing scramble #3 involving him drafting a guy that had been reported as being off our board and actually apologizing to the fans afterwards.

Not to mention selling a 1st round pick on a talent-starved team (a pick that was right before Utah took Gobert - a player that Flip later said he thought was a lottery talent...).

Dieng was a decent pick. Tyus was a decent pick (that we paid too much for).

The Payne trade is and was at the time inexcusable from any standpoint.

Flip wasn't a nightmare or anything, but he was still a below average GM whose best move was not screwing up the KAT pick.

And wasn't he within an eyelash of doing that? (drafting Okafor)

I'd call Flip a disaster. What he did in the 2013 draft can't be defended.

What he was rumored to almost have done doesn't mean shit. What he did is all that matters.

I have to agree with you.



I don't.
He nearly made a disater pick.

After many mediocre picks.

We'd be worse today with him, kind of cold but very true.

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!
Post #: 91
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 10:31:10 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 71488
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

There are a lot of front office people who make their best moves by not screwing up an obvious pick.


And those are the front offices that never rise beyond mediocre.

I agree with you here. If you want to judge some one based on rumors. That is your right, but it under cuts your analysis. Any body can rumor any thing.


Is it a rumor when both the General Manager and Head Coach say it?

How about when Flip admits something on the radio?

But even without the rumored parts, the actual results speak for themselves.
Post #: 92
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 11:14:00 AM   
Sandman

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 4/6/2017
Status: offline
Picking 9th, but not knowing what to do when the top 8 go off the board, and admitting as much later? Unthinkable. If Olynyk was his guy, why not take him at 9? Oh, the value argument. Whatever. If you risk not getting him by trading back, take him at 9. Period.

Flip was right to tank for Towns. I'll give him credit for that. But why would Mitchell say the night before the draft Flip was taking Okafor if it wasn't true? So many of his moves were complete head scratchers. Not stomping on his grave. Just telling it like I see it.

It was the saddest thing ever that he died, but the franchise is in so much better hands now. Not even close.

< Message edited by Sandman -- 5/16/2017 11:26:37 AM >
Post #: 93
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 12:08:02 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 29541
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sandman

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

I agree with you that the Wolves have had very bad luck in the draft. This along with incompetence in the front office. It changed with Flip. Not enough evidence to judge Thibs.


Amazing how getting the #1 overall pick in a year with a "generational" player can color ones opinion...

I believe that Flip did a good job on handling Love and parlaying him for the players that he did. Drafting LaVine was a good move two. There has been other decent moves too. We had a generational player in KG, but could not put a team around him. That is on McHale. Flip had some real limitations as a coach too, but did a good job as a GM.


The Wiggins and LaVine moves still look just OK after 3 years. If we didn't
have KAT, our future would look awfully bleak right now.

The "players" we got for Love? Besides Wiggins, we got possibly the biggest #1 overall bust in NBA history and a future 1st round pick that he turned into half a season of a "didn't want to be here" Thad Young and then 5 games of Kevin Garnett.

The Bazz draft was an absolute clinic on what not to do. He had 8 players scouted while holding the 9th pick, so when the draft went exactly as everyone else planned, he went into scramble #1. Then when he moved down, everyone knew who he was targeting, so Boston was able to snipe that layer causing scramble #3 involving him drafting a guy that had been reported as being off our board and actually apologizing to the fans afterwards.

Not to mention selling a 1st round pick on a talent-starved team (a pick that was right before Utah took Gobert - a player that Flip later said he thought was a lottery talent...).

Dieng was a decent pick. Tyus was a decent pick (that we paid too much for).

The Payne trade is and was at the time inexcusable from any standpoint.

Flip wasn't a nightmare or anything, but he was still a below average GM whose best move was not screwing up the KAT pick.

And wasn't he within an eyelash of doing that? (drafting Okafor)

I'd call Flip a disaster. What he did in the 2013 draft can't be defended.

What he was rumored to almost have done doesn't mean shit. What he did is all that matters.

I have to agree with you.



I don't.
He nearly made a disater pick.

After many mediocre picks.

We'd be worse today with him, kind of cold but very true.

What does nearly making a disaster pick have to do with anything? He didn't and all you even have to go on that he came close to making a disaster pick is rumor and innuendo.
He probably came real close to making some genius picks also. He probably thought real hard about making some trades that would have been great. I give him zero credit for those. All he should be judged on posthumously is what he did and didn't do. Not what he thought about doing.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 94
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 12:10:14 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 29541
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

There are a lot of front office people who make their best moves by not screwing up an obvious pick.


And those are the front offices that never rise beyond mediocre.

I agree with you here. If you want to judge some one based on rumors. That is your right, but it under cuts your analysis. Any body can rumor any thing.


Is it a rumor when both the General Manager and Head Coach say it?

How about when Flip admits something on the radio?

But even without the rumored parts, the actual results speak for themselves.

Agreed. The results are what speak. Other stuff don't mean shit. If we aren't giving him credit for almost making good moves, why would we discredit him for almost making bad moves.

_____________________________

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So let it be done."
Post #: 95
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 12:12:06 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 29541
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sandman

Picking 9th, but not knowing what to do when the top 8 go off the board, and admitting as much later? Unthinkable. If Olynyk was his guy, why not take him at 9? Oh, the value argument. Whatever. If you risk not getting him by trading back, take him at 9. Period.

Flip was right to tank for Towns. I'll give him credit for that. But why would Mitchell say the night before the draft Flip was taking Okafor if it wasn't true? So many of his moves were complete head scratchers. Not stomping on his grave. Just telling it like I see it.

It was the saddest thing ever that he died, but the franchise is in so much better hands now. Not even close.

Flip was the guy who picked Towns. Nobody else. if we had somebody else we may have selected Russell or Okafor or Porzingis. We will never know. All we do know is that Flip picked Towns.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 96
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 12:12:44 PM   
McMurfy


Posts: 13750
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
He was a shit coach and a shit GM for a shit franchise

Only now after nearly 30 years is there a glimmer of hope.
Don't give me that Western Conference Final Crap.

Any objective obserever will tell you that the Minnesota Timberwolves have been one of the worst sports franchises ever.

Flip was a Big part of that.

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!
Post #: 97
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 12:15:43 PM   
McMurfy


Posts: 13750
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
26-year Total 1989–2016 878 wins 1366 losses .391 winning percentage

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!
Post #: 98
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 12:18:38 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 29541
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

He was a shit coach and a shit GM for a shit franchise

Only now after nearly 30 years is there a glimmer of hope.
Don't give me that Western Conference Final Crap.

Any objective obserever will tell you that the Minnesota Timberwolves have been one of the worst sports franchises ever.

Flip was a Big part of that.

Flip brought us out of being actually horrible to a consistent playoff, (8 in a row) 50 game winning team, than a 60 game winning team and NBA title contender. He sucked the next year and got fired. The coaches after him went into free fall. Flip was brought back and didn't do much, but did for better or worse make the Kevin Love/Wiggins trade and his final significant move was drafting Towns.
That is the legacy of Flip.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 99
RE: 2017 NBA Draft - 5/16/2017 12:19:49 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 29541
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

26-year Total 1989–2016 878 wins 1366 losses .391 winning percentage

I'm guessing the Flip coached years were better

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 100
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