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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 3:55:38 AM   
Thomas O. Eliason


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ron:

quote:

they didn't believe in Teddy enough to even have him on the roster for the playoff games.

I'm convinced (that) this was a function of matchups, and not an objective indicator of confidence.

_____________________________

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Post #: 7826
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 5:05:47 AM   
kurt bilben


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From: socal as well
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

What exactly has Sloter done to warrant enthusiasm anyway?


So, sign him and dump him? What should/could he have done to make you optimistic?

Maybe we stick with retreads, rentals, and back-ups. Maybe we stick with the run first, stop the run philosophy. Who needs a QB? Maybe we should actually invest in the process of developing a QB. What's the downside?

I can't comment.
I've seen nothing except a YouTube video of some preseason passes.
Thats why I'm asking ... why are people high on him?



Well if you trust in what Spielman is/ has been doing then you might want to see how this plays out.

The Vikings went above and beyond in securing this guy (Financially, 3 years) Kept 4 QB’s on the roster when all got healthy, protecting Sloter from surely being claimed.

I like turning over every stone to make sure we are set at QB.
Post #: 7827
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 9:37:48 AM   
Jason Dorn

 

Posts: 6211
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From: Minnesota-born and raised
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

Regarding Keenum no one wants to hear this but he is going to be asking for a contract probably 3/60m or 4/75m.

This is why the non exclusive of 1 year franchise tag for 23m is In play.

If the team decides he is not worth that, we can still tag him and he is a tradeable asset.

If we don’t pay him, someone will.

I think it's a foregone conclusion we are franchising him.
The question is Bridge. Do we force him to honor the CBA clause or offer him a deal first?


I think we should allow the contract to toll. His injury is the exact reason that clause is in there. He was an asset of ours and we paid him for two years with zero return. His contract should toll and he should be expected to perform at the previously agreed upon rate 1,3 m .



I disagree. Teddy returning to the active roster was good for the team. He would have played. He already lost ~11M for not picking up his last year. Maybe you or others did not get anything out of Teddy's return but the team did - so did most of the fans. After all the work he has put in, been a model teammate you gonna force him to play another year for less than Case made - what if another team offers him something?

At least let him test the market or offer him something. He was one injury from being the starter.

The team has it as a leverage chip if he is unwilling to negotiate and the Vikings are interested in keeping him.

If they toll him the NFLPA may step in ... a risk to chemistry. Not everything is about business.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/quarterback/ Below the graph has individual QBs.

I think Teddy is worth much more than C Hackenburg but not as much as Wentz. Unless Teddy is done which is very plausible given the nature of the injury- in that case tolling him is a favor.
Post #: 7828
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:17:02 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-which-quarterback-will-be-under-center-for-the-vikings-next-season/

Good article about our QB situation and possible outcomes. Someone that finally addresses the Bridgewater "tolling" situation.



And because the wording of the rule is nebulous, it comes down to a judgement if TB could have played by week six. My guess is instead of going through the angst with the NFLPA, his contract will not be tolled.

Saying up front that TB will be a UFA may reduce pressure on the Vikes to sign him to a new contract.

I think he may hit the market, we end up resigning him to backup money, and he gets the chance to compete for the starting spot.
Post #: 7829
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:18:55 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I wouldn't even gamble 15mil for Keenum.

Neither Keenum nor Bradford is worth any sort of gamble, they would only be worth a gamble if you got them BELOW market value, like 7mil(per season) or less. The only veteran worth gambling on would be Brees, throw 25mil per season at him, 2, maybe a 3 year deal.

Teddy is a gamble, but he shouldn't command a huge salary. I would go with Teddy and Sloter, and draft a QB in one of the 1st 3 rounds.



Looks like the password of the day is 'gamble'.
Post #: 7830
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:20:48 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

What exactly has Sloter done to warrant enthusiasm anyway?



Rushed 72 times in college for a 0.4 average.

Tied to the whole 72 virgins thing.
Post #: 7831
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:23:08 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16028
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

Regarding Keenum no one wants to hear this but he is going to be asking for a contract probably 3/60m or 4/75m.

This is why the non exclusive of 1 year franchise tag for 23m is In play.

If the team decides he is not worth that, we can still tag him and he is a tradeable asset.

If we don’t pay him, someone will.

I think it's a foregone conclusion we are franchising him.
The question is Bridge. Do we force him to honor the CBA clause or offer him a deal first?


I think we should allow the contract to toll. His injury is the exact reason that clause is in there. He was an asset of ours and we paid him for two years with zero return. His contract should toll and he should be expected to perform at the previously agreed upon rate 1,3 m .



We won't 'allow' it as much as draw a line in the sand for the ensuing legal/negotiation battle.
Post #: 7832
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:23:21 AM   
kurt bilben


Posts: 18450
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: socal as well
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-which-quarterback-will-be-under-center-for-the-vikings-next-season/

Good article about our QB situation and possible outcomes. Someone that finally addresses the Bridgewater "tolling" situation.



And because the wording of the rule is nebulous, it comes down to a judgement if TB could have played by week six. My guess is instead of going through the angst with the NFLPA, his contract will not be tolled.

Saying up front that TB will be a UFA may reduce pressure on the Vikes to sign him to a new contract.

I think he may hit the market, we end up resigning him to backup money, and he gets the chance to compete for the starting spot.



Actually think there is a good chance he ends up in Miami.
Post #: 7833
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:25:40 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 37447
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-which-quarterback-will-be-under-center-for-the-vikings-next-season/

Good article about our QB situation and possible outcomes. Someone that finally addresses the Bridgewater "tolling" situation.



And because the wording of the rule is nebulous, it comes down to a judgement if TB could have played by week six. My guess is instead of going through the angst with the NFLPA, his contract will not be tolled.

Saying up front that TB will be a UFA may reduce pressure on the Vikes to sign him to a new contract.

I think he may hit the market, we end up resigning him to backup money, and he gets the chance to compete for the starting spot.



I'd be just fine with that. But he could show a team something and they might take the risk/

Man, if he comes back and can play and his new team falls in with him and it's this great story I will be bummed. He got back super early after working his butt off and got back and inserted to the roster all according the the rules set out and agreed upon.

But we don't pull the trigger riding Case. A guy Zim let's us know the entire way that he wasn't afraid to pull, thought he was lucky. And after never turning to Teddy other than ceremoniously and there is still the possible hook out there - it's Bradford.

I don't see this ending as well as it could.

But that is our theme.

_____________________________

Existential midlife crisis mode engaged.
Post #: 7834
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:26:29 AM   
kurt bilben


Posts: 18450
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: socal as well
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

What exactly has Sloter done to warrant enthusiasm anyway?



Rushed 72 times in college for a 0.4 average.

Tied to the whole 72 virgins thing.



Ah yes we got boatraced in the NFC Championship game, back to “What in the hell is Spielman doing” investing hope in this QB from nowhere?

Post #: 7835
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:27:24 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16028
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

What exactly has Sloter done to warrant enthusiasm anyway?


So, sign him and dump him? What should/could he have done to make you optimistic?

Maybe we stick with retreads, rentals, and back-ups. Maybe we stick with the run first, stop the run philosophy. Who needs a QB? Maybe we should actually invest in the process of developing a QB. What's the downside?

I can't comment.
I've seen nothing except a YouTube video of some preseason passes.
Thats why I'm asking ... why are people high on him?



He's raw as fukc. He's a today size QB. He's a pretty good athlete. Moves his feet. Can throw with extreme velocity. He's exactly the guy you want, providing you have a staff/system that can develop him. Unfortunately Norv and Scott are in Carolina, I'm sure they could put in the work to make him great.



It is far more than others 'developing' him. He alone has to have a host of innate skills. The intangible stuff.

The country is littered with never-was QBs who looked the part and could throw.

If we sign one of the injury-prone QBs, I think QB III needs to be a retread who can win a few games. But if we go the healthy route, keep Sloter.
Post #: 7836
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:30:20 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16028
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-which-quarterback-will-be-under-center-for-the-vikings-next-season/

Good article about our QB situation and possible outcomes. Someone that finally addresses the Bridgewater "tolling" situation.



And because the wording of the rule is nebulous, it comes down to a judgement if TB could have played by week six. My guess is instead of going through the angst with the NFLPA, his contract will not be tolled.

Saying up front that TB will be a UFA may reduce pressure on the Vikes to sign him to a new contract.

I think he may hit the market, we end up resigning him to backup money, and he gets the chance to compete for the starting spot.



Actually think there is a good chance he ends up in Miami.



Nope, we are trading your boy Sloter to Miami. Word on the street is two first-rounders.
Post #: 7837
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:32:17 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16028
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

What exactly has Sloter done to warrant enthusiasm anyway?



Rushed 72 times in college for a 0.4 average.

Tied to the whole 72 virgins thing.



Ah yes we got boatraced in the NFC Championship game, back to “What in the hell is Spielman doing” investing hope in this QB from nowhere?





Just try to keep up and you'll be alright....
Post #: 7838
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:36:56 AM   
kurt bilben


Posts: 18450
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: socal as well
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-which-quarterback-will-be-under-center-for-the-vikings-next-season/

Good article about our QB situation and possible outcomes. Someone that finally addresses the Bridgewater "tolling" situation.



And because the wording of the rule is nebulous, it comes down to a judgement if TB could have played by week six. My guess is instead of going through the angst with the NFLPA, his contract will not be tolled.

Saying up front that TB will be a UFA may reduce pressure on the Vikes to sign him to a new contract.

I think he may hit the market, we end up resigning him to backup money, and he gets the chance to compete for the starting spot.



Actually think there is a good chance he ends up in Miami.



Nope, we are trading your boy Sloter to Miami. Word on the street is two first-rounders.


“My boy Sloter”

Now I’m on the books for both Teddy, and Sloter...

Pales in comparison to Artemis’ boy band crush on Case Keenum, but I’ll work on it.
Post #: 7839
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 10:37:57 AM   
kurt bilben


Posts: 18450
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: socal as well
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

What exactly has Sloter done to warrant enthusiasm anyway?



Rushed 72 times in college for a 0.4 average.

Tied to the whole 72 virgins thing.



Ah yes we got boatraced in the NFC Championship game, back to “What in the hell is Spielman doing” investing hope in this QB from nowhere?





Just try to keep up and you'll be alright....



Very true, changes like the Santa Ana winds out here...
Post #: 7840
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 2:45:15 PM   
kurt bilben


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From: socal as well
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http://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/01/24/way-we-hear-it-vikings-qb-situation-may-not-be-as-complicated-as-it-seems/akdcx6o/

Forgive me if this has already been posted.

I guess these guys think they have the inside take of the Vikings.

And yet the only consensus is we’ll definitely have Sloter on the roster.
Post #: 7841
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 2:46:34 PM  1 votes
marty


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When asking about Sloter, I would ask the same thing about Kurt Warner, what did he do before being an NFL starter ?

What I liked most about Sloter, was his accuracy.

The biggest question for me about Sloter, is can he perform under pressure ? It seems to early to tell with that, would like to see him play more.

< Message edited by marty -- 1/27/2018 2:59:43 PM >
Post #: 7842
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 2:59:03 PM   
marty


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Interesting in the article Kurt, Bridgewater had an 86.3 rating, and then they compare that to Bradford and Keenum who had higher numbers with the Vikes.

But they were veterans. Comparing at the same point in the careers, Keenum's QB rating was in the 70s, and they didn't list Bradford's first few years. I'm guessing Bradford's was probably decent, he is just too injury prone to trust with starter's money.
Post #: 7843
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 5:27:28 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Interesting in the article Kurt, Bridgewater had an 86.3 rating, and then they compare that to Bradford and Keenum who had higher numbers with the Vikes.

But they were veterans. Comparing at the same point in the careers, Keenum's QB rating was in the 70s, and they didn't list Bradford's first few years. I'm guessing Bradford's was probably decent, he is just too injury prone to trust with starter's money.


Bradfords career rating is 85.6 in 7 seasons, Keenum 86.0 in 5 seasons
Post #: 7844
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 8:41:48 PM   
Dana Turner


Posts: 1658
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

What exactly has Sloter done to warrant enthusiasm anyway?


So, sign him and dump him? What should/could he have done to make you optimistic?

Maybe we stick with retreads, rentals, and back-ups. Maybe we stick with the run first, stop the run philosophy. Who needs a QB? Maybe we should actually invest in the process of developing a QB. What's the downside?

I can't comment.
I've seen nothing except a YouTube video of some preseason passes.
Thats why I'm asking ... why are people high on him?



Who knows what Sloter can be, nobody really does, it's just either wishful thinking, hope or in some cases, negativism. Doesn't really matter, he's a kid that looks the part and has many unanswered questions. History is full of guys nobody ever heard of that became successful. Hell, Tom Brady was a backup QB at Michigan, hardly had any tape before NE took a flier on him and look where he ended up. Really, compared to the rest of the issues the Vikings have, the investment here is insignificant, if he turns out to be an HOFer, some here will be able to say they saw it coming, if he's a turd, others get to pound their chest. We've seen these situations a thousand times, a German kid with good speed, an ultra athlete that ends up being a cage fighter, first rounders like Ryan Leaf that fizzle in to oblivion. Someone once took a chance on John Randle, look at Thielan, the list of over achievers is long, maybe this kid turns out to be one, it could be a good story, or "nothing here folks".

One thing I see from watching the tapes is he has great mechanics, so not a lot of work there. Hell, Teddy still cant throw correctly, three years in the league and he still can't throw a ball with proper trajectory. By this I mean a ball that drops from way up in the air as opposed to the lower arced passes he throws all the time. Sometimes you have to drop the ball in from the top, Keenum did it many times this year, it's an art not all passers have. (no pun intended {:~)

Sloter is just a guy, seems like a good kid, until he starts costing us big bucks and a roster spot that someone else deserves more, it will be an interesting story to watch unfold!
Post #: 7845
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 9:32:29 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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I know that Brady was a backup for the most part at Michigan, but in college most players start as backups. Very few of them are starters for all four seasons.

If you see here by his stats, Brady threw for 638 pass attempts, mostly in just his junior and senior years.

Brady played a key role in a dramatic bowl win after his fourth season, but he also performed poorly in his combine and Pro Day workouts. I believe that was the main reason he slipped so much in his draft.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tom-brady-1.html

_____________________________

I do think it is wonderful that football can bring people together from different persuasions. We need more of that and less of what divides us.
Post #: 7846
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/27/2018 11:46:40 PM   
69in09


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Joined: 1/13/2009
From: Olympia, WA
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http://vikingsterritory.com/2018/rumors/kevin-stefanski-to-join-shurmur-in-new-york

_____________________________

This is my burner account.
Post #: 7847
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/28/2018 12:13:38 AM   
Dana Turner


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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know that Brady was a backup for the most part at Michigan, but in college most players start as backups. Very few of them are starters for all four seasons.

If you see here by his stats, Brady threw for 638 pass attempts, mostly in just his junior and senior years.

Brady played a key role in a dramatic bowl win after his fourth season, but he also performed poorly in his combine and Pro Day workouts. I believe that was the main reason he slipped so much in his draft.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tom-brady-1.html



My bad Bruce, thank you for the correction, my memory is slipping. I must be thinking of another QB.
Post #: 7848
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/28/2018 10:01:53 AM   
thebigo


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Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
Boy, this party really died.
Post #: 7849
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/28/2018 10:46:51 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16028
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

What exactly has Sloter done to warrant enthusiasm anyway?


So, sign him and dump him? What should/could he have done to make you optimistic?

Maybe we stick with retreads, rentals, and back-ups. Maybe we stick with the run first, stop the run philosophy. Who needs a QB? Maybe we should actually invest in the process of developing a QB. What's the downside?

I can't comment.
I've seen nothing except a YouTube video of some preseason passes.
Thats why I'm asking ... why are people high on him?



Who knows what Sloter can be, nobody really does, it's just either wishful thinking, hope or in some cases, negativism. Doesn't really matter, he's a kid that looks the part and has many unanswered questions. History is full of guys nobody ever heard of that became successful. Hell, Tom Brady was a backup QB at Michigan, hardly had any tape before NE took a flier on him and look where he ended up. Really, compared to the rest of the issues the Vikings have, the investment here is insignificant, if he turns out to be an HOFer, some here will be able to say they saw it coming, if he's a turd, others get to pound their chest. We've seen these situations a thousand times, a German kid with good speed, an ultra athlete that ends up being a cage fighter, first rounders like Ryan Leaf that fizzle in to oblivion. Someone once took a chance on John Randle, look at Thielan, the list of over achievers is long, maybe this kid turns out to be one, it could be a good story, or "nothing here folks".

One thing I see from watching the tapes is he has great mechanics, so not a lot of work there. Hell, Teddy still cant throw correctly, three years in the league and he still can't throw a ball with proper trajectory. By this I mean a ball that drops from way up in the air as opposed to the lower arced passes he throws all the time. Sometimes you have to drop the ball in from the top, Keenum did it many times this year, it's an art not all passers have. (no pun intended {:~)

Sloter is just a guy, seems like a good kid, until he starts costing us big bucks and a roster spot that someone else deserves more, it will be an interesting story to watch unfold!



No Sloter story - or one about any other player who has never taken a regular season snap - should be bantered too far without of course cueing "Look at Tom Brady..." so thanks for that.

Given all the Sloter hoopla, I'm going to research what Sloter's first name is.
Post #: 7850
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