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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason

 
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/11/2018 8:30:43 PM   
Minnyme

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Hey can you write a brief sentence or two about what they said?

Worth a listen; some of what I can recall ...

Moves not a surprise, more expected
Lots of 'walking on eggshells in front office, lots of unhappy people
Coach fired who had the good relationship w/Kat told, staff was not to speak w/Jim Pete (that was the craziest )
Thibs wants to be one w/closes relationship w/Kat


On top of the above tweet above from Travis Lyle, just feeling like a really sucky situation other there right now.
Post #: 101
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/11/2018 10:53:27 PM   
Matt Lang


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Super interesting. Thanks for the recap. I'll give it a listen when I get a chance.
Post #: 102
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/12/2018 6:56:00 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Insightful podcast

If I may add. Glen has shown concern over Thib's absurd-moronic behavior on the bench. Esp the constant cursing during games within ear shod of kids and families.

Where there is smoke there's fire. I know Glen is on the hook for 24ml but if he doesn't ax Thib's this franchise is going to be in pieces by the end of next season.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 103
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/12/2018 10:28:41 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

But it's clear now that there are multiple issues and Glen needs to start over over once again. With a difference this time though. The cupboard is not bare. There is talent here. Just need a new guy at the helm.


I'd say we're in a MUCH worse position this time.

Before Thibs we had:

KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Dieng and Tyus all on rookie contracts.
We had a Top 5 draft pick.
We had Rubio on a bargain contract for a starting caliber player.
Bjelica on a cheap deal.
We had near Maximum cap room.

Now we have:

KAT on his rookie deal, but eligible for a max extension.
Butler with the ability to leave after the upcoming season (and no Thibs makes that more likely).
Wiggins as a negative asset (when you consider production vs new cost).
Dieng as a negative asset with his current contract.
Gibson with 1 year left (and no way to replace him monetarily)
Teague who can become a FA after next season.
We're capped out, we may have to choose between keeping Bjelica or using the MLE to stay under the luxury tax.
We have the 20th pick.



There is no reality-based cause for optimism for next season.
Post #: 104
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/14/2018 2:07:48 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

But it's clear now that there are multiple issues and Glen needs to start over over once again. With a difference this time though. The cupboard is not bare. There is talent here. Just need a new guy at the helm.


I'd say we're in a MUCH worse position this time.

Before Thibs we had:

KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Dieng and Tyus all on rookie contracts.
We had a Top 5 draft pick.
We had Rubio on a bargain contract for a starting caliber player.
Bjelica on a cheap deal.
We had near Maximum cap room.

Now we have:

KAT on his rookie deal, but eligible for a max extension.
Butler with the ability to leave after the upcoming season (and no Thibs makes that more likely).
Wiggins as a negative asset (when you consider production vs new cost).
Dieng as a negative asset with his current contract.
Gibson with 1 year left (and no way to replace him monetarily)
Teague who can become a FA after next season.
We're capped out, we may have to choose between keeping Bjelica or using the MLE to stay under the luxury tax.
We have the 20th pick.



There is no reality-based cause for optimism for next season.


I think their best case scenario is a repeat of this year. Ugly play and just enough wins to squeak in as a #8 and be decimated by the #1. Oh boy.

But I think even a repeat of that will be a chore.

_____________________________

C’mon man
Post #: 105
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/15/2018 12:09:54 PM   
David Levine


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Sesquiculus at Canis has broken down the options for Jimmy Butler's next contract and what they look like:

Butler isn’t a free agent until next summer. The Wolves can extend JB for up to 4 years at 120% of his salary for this year or basically $110MM/4yrs. If he waits he can sign elsewhere for four years at 30% of the cap with 5% raises or with the Wolves for 5 years starting at 30% of the cap with 8% raises

JB's maximum options under the CBA:
Extend this offseason for $110/4yrs
Opt out in 2019 and sign elsewhere for $140/4yrs
Opt out in 2019 and sign with the Wolves for $190/5yrs

A five year max from the wolves would be:
2019/20 Age 30 = $32.4M
2020/21 Age 31= $34.9M
2021/22 Age 32 = $37.6M
2022/23 Age 33 = $40.9M
2023/24 Age 34 = $44.21M

If the Wolves Max Bulter and Max Towns (god I hope so) then they will be basically over the luxury tax until at least util 2023/2024 when Wiggins’ contract comes off the book. They will also be close or over the Luxury Tax Apron and relying on draft picks, minimum contracts and the mini MLE to fill out their roster.

If they don’t sign Butler (and let Teague walk) then they will go back under the cap and have $14 million to replace Butler and be almost forced to keep Tyus. They will then be able to Use the Full MLE and the BAE in 2020 and again able to use the full MLE without going into the luxury tax in 2021.

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/5/14/17349510/wolves-roundtable-season-reflections#comments
Post #: 106
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/15/2018 4:02:05 PM   
Matt Lang


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Whatever they do, Thib is likely to eff it up
Post #: 107
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/15/2018 4:05:12 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Whatever they do, Thib is likely to eff it up


Thibs could eff up a one care parade.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 108
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/18/2018 2:07:03 PM   
David Levine


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Evan Sidery@esidery
Very interesting comments I heard today from Zach Lowe and Brian Windhorst on The Lowe Post podcast. It sounds like Karl-Anthony Towns and Minnesota might have a strained relationship.

If that’s the case, Suns should take Luka then offer literally everything they can for KAT.

11:36 AM - May 18, 2018

Post #: 109
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/18/2018 2:07:16 PM   
David Levine


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If Taylor chooses Thibs over KAT....
Post #: 110
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/18/2018 2:31:09 PM   
TJSweens


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Glen, please sell this team!

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 111
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/18/2018 3:18:30 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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Yeah Somehow I think it's more Towns vs Thibs than Towns vs Minnesota. If you can only keep one Towns wins in a landslide.

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C’mon man
Post #: 112
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/18/2018 5:13:23 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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The real off-season news we've been waiting for. We have a Wiggins hair update

_____________________________

C’mon man
Post #: 113
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/18/2018 6:12:58 PM   
Matt Lang


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

If Taylor chooses Thibs over KAT....


I've been around chatting with you guys since the StarTrib days almost 20 years ago. In all that time, with all the crap we've put up with, I've never been more apathetic than I am now. I'd almost rather Towns gets traded so he can get to a good franchise like Rubio did and not waste his career in MN.

Thib probably wants to replace him with Noah.
Post #: 114
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/18/2018 11:57:46 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

But it's clear now that there are multiple issues and Glen needs to start over over once again. With a difference this time though. The cupboard is not bare. There is talent here. Just need a new guy at the helm.


I'd say we're in a MUCH worse position this time.

Before Thibs we had:

KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Dieng and Tyus all on rookie contracts.
We had a Top 5 draft pick.
We had Rubio on a bargain contract for a starting caliber player.
Bjelica on a cheap deal.
We had near Maximum cap room.

Now we have:

KAT on his rookie deal, but eligible for a max extension.
Butler with the ability to leave after the upcoming season (and no Thibs makes that more likely).
Wiggins as a negative asset (when you consider production vs new cost).
Dieng as a negative asset with his current contract.
Gibson with 1 year left (and no way to replace him monetarily)
Teague who can become a FA after next season.
We're capped out, we may have to choose between keeping Bjelica or using the MLE to stay under the luxury tax.
We have the 20th pick.



There is no reality-based cause for optimism for next season.


I think their best case scenario is a repeat of this year. Ugly play and just enough wins to squeak in as a #8 and be decimated by the #1. Oh boy.

But I think even a repeat of that will be a chore.

I don't get the doom and gloom. It is freaking ridiculous. We were a healthy Butler away from the third seed and second round of the playoffs. Things are incredibly bright and people are running around saying the sky is falling.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 115
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 12:49:22 AM   
Matt Lang


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The 3rd seed was eliminated by the 6th seed in the first round. You can’t assume we’d have automatically have been in the 2nd round if only JB hadn’t gotten hurt.

Not only that but do you really think this team is anywhere close to playing at Warriors/Rockets/Celtics/Cavs level?
Post #: 116
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 12:54:10 AM   
Matt Lang


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Oh, there’s also this

http://www.1500espn.com/wolves-2/2018/05/basketball-world-talking-wolves-drama-time-kat/
Post #: 117
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 8:26:44 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Can't hardly blame KAT.

Thib's doesn't even know how to use him properly.

Dumping Rubio was such a bad move on so many levels. He could get KAT the ball when he had position in the low post where Teague simply doesn't have the skill set to do this.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 118
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 9:02:32 AM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

The 3rd seed was eliminated by the 6th seed in the first round. You can’t assume we’d have automatically have been in the 2nd round if only JB hadn’t gotten hurt.

Not only that but do you really think this team is anywhere close to playing at Warriors/Rockets/Celtics/Cavs level?

I'm not assuming. I am giving it my best guess. The Wolves could have lost in the first round or gone all the way to the title. My guess was that we would have won a round.
With such negativity from the fan base after a pretty good season I see how that could give the players a feeling that this is not the right place for them.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 119
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 10:17:44 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

The 3rd seed was eliminated by the 6th seed in the first round. You can’t assume we’d have automatically have been in the 2nd round if only JB hadn’t gotten hurt.

Not only that but do you really think this team is anywhere close to playing at Warriors/Rockets/Celtics/Cavs level?


The Butler injury is no excuse.

It sucked, but he's going to miss 15-20 games every year. That's who he is. That wasn't a fluke.

Curry, Paul, Gobert, Leonard and Cousins all missed more games than Jimmy, and their teams all finished ahead of us.

We had 3 guys start every game this year. 7 of our Top 10 guys played at least 79. I'd say we were extremely lucky with injuries. Our 5 starters played 150 more minutes together than the next highest 5 man group in the league (and 330(!) more than 3rd place). And that’s with Butler missing games.
Post #: 120
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 11:00:36 AM   
JT2

 

Posts: 13543
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

The 3rd seed was eliminated by the 6th seed in the first round. You can’t assume we’d have automatically have been in the 2nd round if only JB hadn’t gotten hurt.

Not only that but do you really think this team is anywhere close to playing at Warriors/Rockets/Celtics/Cavs level?


The Butler injury is no excuse.

It sucked, but he's going to miss 15-20 games every year. That's who he is. That wasn't a fluke.

Curry, Paul, Gobert, Leonard and Cousins all missed more games than Jimmy, and their teams all finished ahead of us.

We had 3 guys start every game this year. 7 of our Top 10 guys played at least 79. I'd say we were extremely lucky with injuries. Our 5 starters played 150 more minutes together than the next highest 5 man group in the league (and 330(!) more than 3rd place). And that’s with Butler missing games.



Big fat BINGO
Post #: 121
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 6:10:14 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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Joined: 7/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

The 3rd seed was eliminated by the 6th seed in the first round. You can’t assume we’d have automatically have been in the 2nd round if only JB hadn’t gotten hurt.

Not only that but do you really think this team is anywhere close to playing at Warriors/Rockets/Celtics/Cavs level?


The Butler injury is no excuse.

It sucked, but he's going to miss 15-20 games every year. That's who he is. That wasn't a fluke.

Curry, Paul, Gobert, Leonard and Cousins all missed more games than Jimmy, and their teams all finished ahead of us.

We had 3 guys start every game this year. 7 of our Top 10 guys played at least 79. I'd say we were extremely lucky with injuries. Our 5 starters played 150 more minutes together than the next highest 5 man group in the league (and 330(!) more than 3rd place). And that’s with Butler missing games.


Indeed. This was the most healthy season I can recall in a long time.

_____________________________

C’mon man
Post #: 122
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 6:15:10 PM   
David Levine


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We’re just a complete cluster of a franchise right now.

Taylor hates Thibs.

Thibs and Layden are fighting.

Thibs and KAT have issues.

There is a definite division in the locker room between the vets and the kids.

Taylor expects Butler to recruit players, Butler’s agent says Jimmy doesn’t feel that’s his job.

Glen can’t sell the team soon enough.
Post #: 123
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/19/2018 6:43:11 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

We’re just a complete cluster of a franchise right now.

Taylor hates Thibs.

Thibs and Layden are fighting.

Thibs and KAT have issues.

There is a definite division in the locker room between the vets and the kids.

Taylor expects Butler to recruit players, Butler’s agent says Jimmy doesn’t feel that’s his job.

Glen can’t sell the team soon enough.



And that's just the stuff we know about. I pretty much assumed, by mid season, that Towns wouldn't be playing for Thibodeau for very long.

Who knows what kind of other issues haven't been revealed yet.

I'm guessing Taylor is having buyers remorse on Wiggins.

What/who can change the way Thibodeau operates? Butler may be the only player that respects him. Butler, of all people, should realize that Thibodeau is going to overuse him until he loses him, with no regard for his and our future.

Who is going to get better on this team under Thibodeau? There may be some slight, slow, player improvement, but it won't be because of Thibodeau.

Not that I expect much improvement from Wiggins, but how in the world does a decent FT shooter drop 12% on free throw shooting, from his previous career numbers? Something is really wrong.

There is no reason to think Thibodeau is going to change...anything. He'll just expect players to play harder.

I only went to a handful of games this season, but red-faced yelling and screaming was talked and complained about by fans around me each game. It's embarrassing. And it is not effective.

< Message edited by JT2 -- 5/19/2018 6:45:13 PM >
Post #: 124
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/20/2018 4:27:49 PM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

We’re just a complete cluster of a franchise right now.

Taylor hates Thibs.

Thibs and Layden are fighting.

Thibs and KAT have issues.

There is a definite division in the locker room between the vets and the kids.

Taylor expects Butler to recruit players, Butler’s agent says Jimmy doesn’t feel that’s his job.

Glen can’t sell the team soon enough.

Taylor has to man up and fire Thibs. All the issues center around Thibs. They won't get any better until Thibs is gone. It be nice to think that Taylor will sell the team, but that isn't happening any time soon. Taylor out executive a lot of big time owners and he is having too much fun playing with the other owners and his team is rising in value. His heart issues are under control and he the big tax sting is out, so don't hold your breath. Hire Casey or Hammon and take the stress of. He can bring in his own GM and not have a GM/Coach which is the worst decision that he has made.
Post #: 125
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