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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason

 
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 9:39:59 AM   
wrh

 

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Well if you asked me 3 or 4 years ago about the good/bad features of having one person as POBO and head coach I wouldn't have had a strong opinion. I think a clear case can be made that what is playing out with our TWolves shows the worst case of the arrangement with the main guy refusing to face reality but having enough control and power to prevent what would have been a normal flow of information out about problems failing to be addressed.

I can sympathize a little with Taylor getting blindsided and shocked at the depth of change necessary, still it is his failure to recognize the need to act (when the depth of issues in the whole organization starting with Thibs and down) which is making this so much worse. Butler is just a symptom that highlights Thibs just not working out here. No patch or trade is going to solve that.
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 10:06:06 AM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Interesting to think about the season if Butler blows out his knee or something season ending.

Collect on insurance. Butler's career is basically over. He doesn't get the big next contract. Butler kinda deserves it, doesn't he?

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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 10:13:46 AM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Interesting to think about the season if Butler blows out his knee or something season ending.

Collect on insurance. Butler's career is basically over. He doesn't get the big next contract. Butler kinda deserves it, doesn't he?



I don't think he deserves that. Do you really?
Post #: 1628
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 10:20:23 AM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Interesting to think about the season if Butler blows out his knee or something season ending.

Collect on insurance. Butler's career is basically over. He doesn't get the big next contract. Butler kinda deserves it, doesn't he?



I don't think he deserves that. Do you really?

Well...it would probably make him take stock. I think that would make him a better person. He is basically a jerk right now.

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Post #: 1629
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 10:29:53 AM   
David Levine


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In all honesty, I’m not sure where to start. Whenever I suggest that Taylor “must” know this, or “must” do that, he proves me wrong.

So I write this with some trepidation: Taylor must know that if they are going to trade Butler, it’s going to be up to him to manage the process. Tom Thibodeau is clearly satisfied with the status quo, and currently has what he wants: Butler in a Wolves uniform. He’ll avoid making a change to that status quo as long as he possibly can.

Furthermore, it gets more difficult to make a trade as the season starts, and the last month of “trade negotiations” has not helped the Wolves’ reputation around the league for working in good faith.

Meanwhile, RUMINT has it that none of this is going over well in KAT territory. They wanted (and want) both Butler and Thibs out, and are, I believe, furious that Thibs essentially threw the team under the bus by backing Butler after his performance last week. KAT’s refusal to answer questions relating to Butler at his media availability in Milwaukee was telling.

Of course KAT should not be the decision-maker for the franchise, but the problem is there appears to be nobody qualified for that role currently in the organization. Rebuilding trust and faith with KAT has to be the biggest priority, but as far as I can tell, nobody is taking that seriously. Hopefully they will if and when it leaks that he wants out.

Further RUMINT has it that some of the minority partners in the franchise are extremely unhappy with how Taylor has handled this situation, and have made their feelings known, though they don’t have a lot of say in things.

Meanwhile, this is a win for Butler, who has controlled the narrative throughout. If the Wolves play well and win early in the season, it’s because he’s the “leader” and “lit a fire” under the team. If they don’t, it’s because KAT et. al. are “soft” and don’t know how to compete.

Here’s one thing I know: It’s not going to be a cheerful, supportive, happy crowd at Target Center on Friday night. Things could get ugly.

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/10/15/17977810/jimmy-butler-to-play-in-season-opener-minnesota-timberwolves-nba-trade#comments
Post #: 1630
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:04:48 AM   
Mr. Ed


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quote:

Here’s one thing I know: It’s not going to be a cheerful, supportive, happy crowd at Target Center on Friday night. Things could get ugly.


And perhaps that's what is needed to get this moving forward. An already embarrassed franchise making a spectacle of itself in front of season ticket holders, and the media
which is going to be watching this like a hawk.

About the ONLY way this franchise is going to be noticed this year.

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Post #: 1631
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:06:53 AM   
TJSweens


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I don't see this as a win for Butler at all. He wanted out. His antics above all else killed interest in him. More than anyone, I see Thibs as the one who got what he wanted.

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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:12:48 AM   
ruffenach

 

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Butler has always been good at controlling the narrative and putting me first. This helps him with the media, who are always looking for something to hype. He destroys his team for his personal glory and only because he has Thibs in his corner who believe that he can do no wrong. This doesn't help him to get traded and get a big contract. Both he and Thibs and Leyden are dead men walking. Few are going to want any of them after this power play. I am sure that Glen want this to al blow away without having to write the big checks to cover everyone who wants to sucker punch him on the way out. When Glen needs to be strong and decisive his management style is to build a censuses. This can't be done as you head over the cliff. Thibs and Butler put the fun in dysfunctional on this team and glen is already sea sick
Post #: 1633
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:14:30 AM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I don't see this as a win for Butler at all. He wanted out. His antics above all else killed interest in him. More than anyone, I see Thibs as the one who got what he wanted.


He got exactly what he wanted.

His relevant coaching strategy consists almost exclusively of play harder. Butler reinforces that.
Post #: 1634
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:23:40 AM   
David Levine


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Jimmy wouldn't pass the ball to KAT last year when they were on decent terms, I can't imagine what this new version of Thibs ball is going to look like...
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:26:34 AM   
kgdabom

 

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Over on RealGM there aren't just Thibs/Butler supporters. There are many militant Thibs/Butler supporters. I'm the voice of reason in the middle ground. Here of course we have to be 100% anti Thibs/Butler so I am the Village Idiot for not falling in line. I see a middle ground. I do blame the problem on Butler. If he is pissed off because we didn't find a way to renegotiate his contract this year he is simply delusional. On the other hand if we traded for him without knowing in advance we would max him next year than the blame is on Thibs/Taylor. While it is unlikely that this situation is resolved well I don't see why it's required of me to not have hope it can be resolved well.

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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:43:01 AM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Jimmy wouldn't pass the ball to KAT last year when they were on decent terms, I can't imagine what this new version of Thibs ball is going to look like...



Towns definitely has to improve defensively, but it's almost criminal how he was under utilized on offense.

One easy way to keep a player engaged defensively is to reward him on the offensive end when he's running the floor. Rarely happened last year.

I think no other big played as many minutes as Towns last year. Too many, IMO.
And, it's not just the minutes. Often times Thibodeau would run him the full 12 in the first quarter unless he picked up a couple of fouls.

Towns would be a better player on both ends if his minutes were managed better.

I love Capela, but he most certainly isn't on Towns level offensively, but look how D'Antoni plays him. I doubt he ever played much more than an 8 minute stretch all season.
He plays hard and runs like a giant gazelle, in part due to always being fresh.
Post #: 1637
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:43:54 AM   
Mr. Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Over on RealGM there aren't just Thibs/Butler supporters. There are many militant Thibs/Butler supporters.
I'm the voice of reason in the middle ground. Here of course we have to be 100% anti Thibs/Butler so I am the Village Idiot for not falling in line.
I see a middle ground. I do blame the problem on Butler.
If he is pissed off because we didn't find a way to renegotiate his contract this year he is simply delusional. On the other hand if we traded for him without knowing in advance we would max him next year than the blame is on Thibs/Taylor. While it is unlikely that this situation is resolved well I don't see why it's required of me to not have hope it can be resolved well.


I just cannot see, with today's NBA Egos, a middle ground between player/coach/rest of the team.

The players have so much power and control. The guaranteed contracts have made it that way. So if they dog it, who cares?

If they can't get along? Big deal, they get their $$ either way.

Some cannot see how it'll impact their futures. Unfortunate for them.

Given the explosive comments and behavior, I cannot see these people reaching a middle ground.

_____________________________

“Terrible thing to live in fear. Brooks Hatlen knew it. Knew it all too well. All I want is to be back where things make sense. Where I won't have to be afraid all the time.”
Post #: 1638
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:48:17 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Jimmy wouldn't pass the ball to KAT last year when they were on decent terms, I can't imagine what this new version of Thibs ball is going to look like...



Towns definitely has to improve defensively, but it's almost criminal how he was under utilized on offense.

One easy way to keep a player engaged defensively is to reward him on the offensive end when he's running the floor. Rarely happened last year.

I think no other big played as many minutes as Towns last year. Too many, IMO.
And, it's not just the minutes. Often times Thibodeau would run him the full 12 in the first quarter unless he picked up a couple of fouls.

Towns would be a better player on both ends if his minutes were managed better.

I love Capela, but he most certainly isn't on Towns level offensively, but look how D'Antoni plays him. I doubt he ever played much more than an 8 minute stretch all season.
He plays hard and runs like a giant gazelle, in part due to always being fresh.


3 major problems there:

1: An antiquated offense that is based on guard/wing isos
2: Jimmy Butler refusing to pass the ball to the best offensive player on the team.
3: Jeff Teague being completely incapable of throwing a simple pass into the post.
Post #: 1639
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 11:52:25 AM   
Matt Lang


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KAT should develop a case of knee soreness and go home to NJ to see his own specialists until this mess is resolved. Thib and Butler can’t win a game without him.
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 12:13:26 PM   
ronhextall


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The Wolves are like advertising a bad car accident that hasn't happened yet, but you know the date and time. For the Wolves it is 82 times. Should be interesting to watch at least.
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 12:16:40 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

KAT should develop a case of knee soreness and go home to NJ to see his own specialists until this mess is resolved. Thib and Butler can’t win a game without him.


No, things will not get better by KAT making it an even bigger shit show than it already is. It's not who he is and I don't want him to start being that guy.

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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 12:28:34 PM   
Matt Lang


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You’re probably right, but the whole thing is really pissing me off
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 12:49:22 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Over on RealGM there aren't just Thibs/Butler supporters. There are many militant Thibs/Butler supporters.
I'm the voice of reason in the middle ground. Here of course we have to be 100% anti Thibs/Butler so I am the Village Idiot for not falling in line.
I see a middle ground. I do blame the problem on Butler.
If he is pissed off because we didn't find a way to renegotiate his contract this year he is simply delusional. On the other hand if we traded for him without knowing in advance we would max him next year than the blame is on Thibs/Taylor. While it is unlikely that this situation is resolved well I don't see why it's required of me to not have hope it can be resolved well.


I just cannot see, with today's NBA Egos, a middle ground between player/coach/rest of the team.

The players have so much power and control. The guaranteed contracts have made it that way. So if they dog it, who cares?

If they can't get along? Big deal, they get their $$ either way.

Some cannot see how it'll impact their futures. Unfortunate for them.

Given the explosive comments and behavior, I cannot see these people reaching a middle ground.

You are most likely correct.

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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 12:52:34 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

KAT should develop a case of knee soreness and go home to NJ to see his own specialists until this mess is resolved. Thib and Butler can’t win a game without him.


No, things will not get better by KAT making it an even bigger shit show than it already is. It's not who he is and I don't want him to start being that guy.

Great post Sweens. Honorable people honor their commitments. What Matt suggested out of frustration is that KAT take the pay from his contract while not providing the service of the contract by faking injury.
Your post brought him back to his senses.
What Leonard did last year even if he was truly injured was terrible. I don't think the Spurs should have had to pay him considering he didn't make himself available to the team or their medical staff. However, he got away with it and I believe that set a horrible precedent.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 10/15/2018 1:12:17 PM >


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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 1:09:15 PM   
kgdabom

 

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It appears that Taylor either never gave KAT a promise that he wouldn't have to play with Butler again or he requested a compromise of playing together for a "while" whatever that might be. If Taylor gave the promise and is reneging because KAT is now signed that would be despicable.

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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 1:58:33 PM   
Steve Lentz


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I don't know what a typical walk up attendance is, but one way to get this resolved is to not attend any games until it is.

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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 2:06:16 PM   
Matt Lang


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Thib ignored the Butler problem and Taylor ignored the Thib problem.

Great way to run an organization by the two people in charge.
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 4:14:53 PM   
David Levine


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Literally every other team in the league understands contract value...

Shams Charania✔@ShamsCharania
Sources on @TheAthleticNBA @WatchStadium: Indiana Pacers center Myles Turner has agreed to a four-year, $80 million contract extension.

Chris Haynes✔@ChrisBHaynes
Larry Nance has reached a four-year, $45 million extension with Cleveland, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
Post #: 1649
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 4:45:06 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Literally every other team in the league understands contract value...

Shams Charania✔@ShamsCharania
Sources on @TheAthleticNBA @WatchStadium: Indiana Pacers center Myles Turner has agreed to a four-year, $80 million contract extension.

Chris Haynes✔@ChrisBHaynes
Larry Nance has reached a four-year, $45 million extension with Cleveland, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Not the Heat. They extended Winslow at $13 million per year. I think Turner is worth that money. I'm not sure if Nance is, but worth the risk I suppose.

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