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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/15/2018 9:46:25 PM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 11840
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I don't see this as a win for Butler at all. He wanted out. His antics above all else killed interest in him. More than anyone, I see Thibs as the one who got what he wanted.

And honestly, as long as you have Thibs around you might as well have Butler. Even if it means dysfunction and turmoil.

Thibs’ systems and schemes suck. So they need a guy like Butler who can just free wheel. Without Butler it’s back to 30 wins. With Butler, even though he’s a Molotov cocktail it’s a formula that has a ceiling about where they ended up last year. Ugly, maddening basketball where they brute force enough wins to squeak in as a #8 one and done.

Oh boy! Feel the excitement!

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 10/15/2018 9:47:49 PM >

_____________________________

Fire Bob Schnelker

Post #: 1651

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 11:09:31 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6111
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

It will get damn ugly the closer it gets to the trade deadline. At that point Butler will need to go full blown crazy and urinate at center court to force his way out.

He isn't going to let himself get pushed into a Wolves only Max situation.

Post #: 1652

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 11:15:26 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Hard to imagine Butler changing his toxic ways.

Glen needs to come to the realization that it's time to reboot.

Thib's need to go first and foremost and get a new GM to facilitate a Butler trade.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1653

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 11:36:12 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 43195
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

It will get damn ugly the closer it gets to the trade deadline. At that point Butler will need to go full blown crazy and urinate at center court to force his way out.

He isn't going to let himself get pushed into a Wolves only Max situation.

If he goes bat shit crazy again, that is all he will accomplish. His antics when he finally showed up for practice killed trade talks with everyone. There is literally nobody at this point who wants to trade for him, let alone give him a max deal. That could change if he keeps his mouth shut and produces. I have every confidence he will play hard and produce, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the other part of it.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1654

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 11:40:28 AM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

At least the league is giving us Boston/Philly tonight so we can forget about our woes for a couple hours.

Post #: 1655

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 11:44:50 AM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
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That won't help me. This whole fiasco is really causing me to hate basketball.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1656

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 12:26:04 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

It will get damn ugly the closer it gets to the trade deadline. At that point Butler will need to go full blown crazy and urinate at center court to force his way out.

He isn't going to let himself get pushed into a Wolves only Max situation.

If he goes bat shit crazy again, that is all he will accomplish. His antics when he finally showed up for practice killed trade talks with everyone. There is literally nobody at this point who wants to trade for him, let alone give him a max deal. That could change if he keeps his mouth shut and produces. I have every confidence he will play hard and produce, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the other part of it.

My guess is the bolded is not completely true. He is too good to go unwanted. Now, what they offer may be a different story initially, but I bet the Wolves eventually get a decent return when (not if) he is traded.

Post #: 1657

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 12:40:18 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17538
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

It will get damn ugly the closer it gets to the trade deadline. At that point Butler will need to go full blown crazy and urinate at center court to force his way out.

He isn't going to let himself get pushed into a Wolves only Max situation.

If he goes bat shit crazy again, that is all he will accomplish. His antics when he finally showed up for practice killed trade talks with everyone. There is literally nobody at this point who wants to trade for him, let alone give him a max deal. That could change if he keeps his mouth shut and produces. I have every confidence he will play hard and produce, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the other part of it.

My guess is the bolded is not completely true. He is too good to go unwanted. Now, what they offer may be a different story initially, but I bet the Wolves eventually get a decent return when (not if) he is traded.

I can't see Butler's antics (coupled with what happened in Chi) not at least giving GM's pause thus lowering they're offers.

Had this trade been executed this summer before everything boiled over would have obviously been the time to get a deal done. This alone is enough reason to fire Thib's because it hurts the franchise long term asset wise.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1658

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 1:32:00 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 43195
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

It will get damn ugly the closer it gets to the trade deadline. At that point Butler will need to go full blown crazy and urinate at center court to force his way out.

He isn't going to let himself get pushed into a Wolves only Max situation.

If he goes bat shit crazy again, that is all he will accomplish. His antics when he finally showed up for practice killed trade talks with everyone. There is literally nobody at this point who wants to trade for him, let alone give him a max deal. That could change if he keeps his mouth shut and produces. I have every confidence he will play hard and produce, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the other part of it.

My guess is the bolded is not completely true. He is too good to go unwanted. Now, what they offer may be a different story initially, but I bet the Wolves eventually get a decent return when (not if) he is traded.

I'm not saying talks were killed for ever, but the talks with Miami fell apart completely after he pulled his stunt. There is absolutely zero steam of anyone talking with the Wolves right now. Miami was one of the few teams that was willing to redo his contract right away. The fact that he destroyed two locker rooms before his practice antics was already commented on by "anonymous GMs" around the league. In order for the Wolves to move him for anything reasonable, Butler has to put on an uncharacteristic display of good behavior.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1659

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 1:42:28 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'm not saying talks were killed for ever, but the talks with Miami fell apart completely after he pulled his stunt. There is absolutely zero steam of anyone talking with the Wolves right now.

We never got a good offer from Miami, in part because its incredibly difficult to build a good offer around Butler for Richardson. Miami only has bad contracts to use as the filler to make a deal work. Butler for Richardson would've required we take on one of Waiters, James Johnson or Olynyk. Of the 3, only Olynyk is a useful player, but adding him to the deal would've meant no re-signing Tyus or using the MLE next offseason. We'd have been a 35 win luxury tax team.

quote:

Miami was one of the few teams that was willing to redo his contract right away.

That's just not accurate at all. Not only has the deadline to rework his contract passed, but Miami had no way to clear nearly enough cap space to do it. Miami would absolutely need to wait until next offseason to do anything about his contract.

Post #: 1660

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 1:50:30 PM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

That's just not accurate at all. Not only has the deadline to rework his contract passed, but Miami had no way to clear nearly enough cap space to do it. Miami would absolutely need to wait until next offseason to do anything about his contract.

All of which adds to the difficulty in getting any value for him at this point. Teams will be reluctant to part with meaningful assets up front with no guarantee of resigning him even with Bird rights. The Miami offer may have been less than ideal, but that is the reality of what happens when a clusterfuck of an an ownership / FO lets things spiral out of control to this degree. A better offer is not waiting down the road unless all parties reign in the dysfunction.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1661

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 1:59:18 PM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 11840
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

That won't help me. This whole fiasco is really causing me to hate basketball.

It's having the opposite effect on me. Loving the daily drama.

_____________________________

Fire Bob Schnelker

Post #: 1662

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:04:20 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

It will get damn ugly the closer it gets to the trade deadline. At that point Butler will need to go full blown crazy and urinate at center court to force his way out.

He isn't going to let himself get pushed into a Wolves only Max situation.

If he goes bat shit crazy again, that is all he will accomplish. His antics when he finally showed up for practice killed trade talks with everyone. There is literally nobody at this point who wants to trade for him, let alone give him a max deal. That could change if he keeps his mouth shut and produces. I have every confidence he will play hard and produce, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the other part of it.

Yeah his antics weren't well thought out. Hopefully he stays with the Wolves. Doesn't seem like he and Wiggins are having any issues so it might just be KAT.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1663

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:04:56 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

That's just not accurate at all. Not only has the deadline to rework his contract passed, but Miami had no way to clear nearly enough cap space to do it. Miami would absolutely need to wait until next offseason to do anything about his contract.

All of which adds to the difficulty in getting any value for him at this point. Teams will be reluctant to part with meaningful assets up front with no guarantee of resigning him even with Bird rights. The Miami offer may have been less than ideal, but that is the reality of what happens when a clusterfuck of an an ownership / FO lets things spiral out of control to this degree. A better offer is not waiting down the road unless all parties reign in the dysfunction.

But that happens all the time. Leonard and George are the 2 most recent examples. Bird Rights are super important because very few teams will have the cap space to sign Butler outright in the offseason, and even fewer that he'd want to go to will have it.

If teams like Miami or Houston want to add a superstar, the only way to do it is through trade - and Butler is the only one currently on the block.

And there probably are better offers down the road. Once December 15th roles around a ton of good players become eligible for trade.

I could also see Miami really struggle out of the gate in an improving Eastern Conference as they don't have a star player and panic sets in.

Post #: 1664

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:05:22 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

At least the league is giving us Boston/Philly tonight so we can forget about our woes for a couple hours.

What is Boston Philly supposed to do for me? Give me a LeBron Game and I'm all about that.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1665

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:07:33 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

It will get damn ugly the closer it gets to the trade deadline. At that point Butler will need to go full blown crazy and urinate at center court to force his way out.

He isn't going to let himself get pushed into a Wolves only Max situation.

If he goes bat shit crazy again, that is all he will accomplish. His antics when he finally showed up for practice killed trade talks with everyone. There is literally nobody at this point who wants to trade for him, let alone give him a max deal. That could change if he keeps his mouth shut and produces. I have every confidence he will play hard and produce, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the other part of it.

My guess is the bolded is not completely true. He is too good to go unwanted. Now, what they offer may be a different story initially, but I bet the Wolves eventually get a decent return when (not if) he is traded.

I'm not saying talks were killed for ever, but the talks with Miami fell apart completely after he pulled his stunt. There is absolutely zero steam of anyone talking with the Wolves right now. Miami was one of the few teams that was willing to redo his contract right away. The fact that he destroyed two locker rooms before his practice antics was already commented on by "anonymous GMs" around the league. In order for the Wolves to move him for anything reasonable, Butler has to put on an uncharacteristic display of good behavior.

Miami may have been willing to max him next year. I see no way possible for this year.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1666

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:10:18 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'm not saying talks were killed for ever, but the talks with Miami fell apart completely after he pulled his stunt. There is absolutely zero steam of anyone talking with the Wolves right now.

We never got a good offer from Miami, in part because its incredibly difficult to build a good offer around Butler for Richardson. Miami only has bad contracts to use as the filler to make a deal work. Butler for Richardson would've required we take on one of Waiters, James Johnson or Olynyk. Of the 3, only Olynyk is a useful player, but adding him to the deal would've meant no re-signing Tyus or using the MLE next offseason. We'd have been a 35 win luxury tax team.

quote:

Miami was one of the few teams that was willing to redo his contract right away.

That's just not accurate at all. Not only has the deadline to rework his contract passed, but Miami had no way to clear nearly enough cap space to do it. Miami would absolutely need to wait until next offseason to do anything about his contract.

If Olynyk was included it would have forced us to move Dieng somehow. If that could have been worked into the deal I think it would have been acceptable.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1667

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:14:25 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17538
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

At least the league is giving us Boston/Philly tonight so we can forget about our woes for a couple hours.

What is Boston Philly supposed to do for me? Give me a LeBron Game and I'm all about that.

Two very well coached teams that are extremely talented and fun too watch

Take it in Eldon and report back

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1668

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:21:05 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

At least the league is giving us Boston/Philly tonight so we can forget about our woes for a couple hours.

What is Boston Philly supposed to do for me? Give me a LeBron Game and I'm all about that.

Two very well coached teams that are extremely talented and fun too watch

Take it in Eldon and report back

I despise the 76ers and Boston I only like Horford. The only reason that game is of interest at all is that I have a fantasy league team where winner steals a player off the loser. I have Simmons, Covington, and Fultz from Philly and Horford from Boston.
I picked those players based on their early season schedules. Fultz most likely dropped after Thursday. So honestly I will probably be watching.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1669

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:25:36 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17538
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

At least the league is giving us Boston/Philly tonight so we can forget about our woes for a couple hours.

What is Boston Philly supposed to do for me? Give me a LeBron Game and I'm all about that.

Two very well coached teams that are extremely talented and fun too watch

Take it in Eldon and report back

I despise the 76ers and Boston I only like Horford. The only reason that game is of interest at all is that I have a fantasy league team where winner steals a player off the loser. I have Simmons, Covington, and Fultz from Philly and Horford from Boston.
I picked those players based on their early season schedules. Fultz most likely dropped after Thursday. So honestly I will probably be watching.

Sixers are really fun to watch against the Wolves cuz are defense doesn't counter they're strengths. Boston on the other hand play them tough.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1670

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:27:19 PM

JT2

Posts: 13588
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

At least the league is giving us Boston/Philly tonight so we can forget about our woes for a couple hours.

That game should be fun. Starting Fultz makes Philly much better defensively on the perimeter.

The other game, probably not so fun. Schroeder, and his complete lack of defense, will make things extremely easy for Curry.

Post #: 1671

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 2:47:00 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

At least the league is giving us Boston/Philly tonight so we can forget about our woes for a couple hours.

That game should be fun. Starting Fultz makes Philly much better defensively on the perimeter.

The other game, probably not so fun. Schroeder, and his complete lack of defense, will make things extremely easy for Curry.

Its interesting that while the West is stacked, 4 of the 5 teams I'm most interested in watching are in the East.

Philly/Boston/Toronto/Milwaukee/Utah

< Message edited by David Levine -- 10/16/2018 2:48:30 PM >

Post #: 1672

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 3:00:57 PM

JT2

Posts: 13588
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

At least the league is giving us Boston/Philly tonight so we can forget about our woes for a couple hours.

That game should be fun. Starting Fultz makes Philly much better defensively on the perimeter.

The other game, probably not so fun. Schroeder, and his complete lack of defense, will make things extremely easy for Curry.

Its interesting that while the West is stacked, 4 of the 5 teams I'm most interested in watching are in the East.

Philly/Boston/Toronto/Milwaukee/Utah

I agree. The top of the East should be real good and competitive this season.
Boston and Toronto are incredibly deep. I'm a Siakam fan, and with Ibaka and Valanciunas getting older, I'm expecting big things from him this year.
Boston's depth allows them to work Hayward into the mix slowly.
Giannis and Milwaukee could become scary good soon. Shedding Parker and adding Ilyasova makes them much better defensively, and now they finally have a C that can score.

Post #: 1673

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 3:04:55 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

I'm a Siakam fan, and with Ibaka and Valanciunas getting older, I'm expecting big things from him this year.

I'm excited to see Kawhi and OG as a wing tandem. Plus I'm intrigued by their new coach.

quote:

Giannis and Milwaukee could become scary good soon. Shedding Parker and adding Ilyasova makes them much better defensively, and now they finally have a C that can score.

Plus no team upgraded more at HC this offseason than the Bucks. (Although I also love the Fizdale upgrade in NY)

Post #: 1674

RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 10/16/2018 3:06:42 PM

JT2

Posts: 13588
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

I'm a Siakam fan, and with Ibaka and Valanciunas getting older, I'm expecting big things from him this year.

I'm excited to see Kawhi and OG as a wing tandem. Plus I'm intrigued by their new coach.

quote:

Giannis and Milwaukee could become scary good soon. Shedding Parker and adding Ilyasova makes them much better defensively, and now they finally have a C that can score.

Plus no team upgraded more at HC this offseason than the Bucks. (Although I also love the Fizdale upgrade in NY)