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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason

 
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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/29/2018 8:18:43 AM   
bohumm

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

The 3rd seed was eliminated by the 6th seed in the first round. You can’t assume we’d have automatically have been in the 2nd round if only JB hadn’t gotten hurt.

Not only that but do you really think this team is anywhere close to playing at Warriors/Rockets/Celtics/Cavs level?


The Butler injury is no excuse.

It sucked, but he's going to miss 15-20 games every year. That's who he is. That wasn't a fluke.

Curry, Paul, Gobert, Leonard and Cousins all missed more games than Jimmy, and their teams all finished ahead of us.

We had 3 guys start every game this year. 7 of our Top 10 guys played at least 79. I'd say we were extremely lucky with injuries. Our 5 starters played 150 more minutes together than the next highest 5 man group in the league (and 330(!) more than 3rd place). And that’s with Butler missing games.

The Clippers, lost 2 starters for almost the entire season and approximately 100,000 man - games beyond that, not to mention the upheaval of swapping out their two core players, and the Wolves barely beat them out. The problem is that the Wolves are completely dependent on one player, and that player will likely miss more games as his body breaks down due to playing 112 minutes per game with hard practices and shootarounds in between.

< Message edited by bohumm -- 5/29/2018 8:27:23 AM >
Post #: 151
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 5/29/2018 6:35:24 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

All NBA Teams:

First: LeBron James, James Harden, Anthony Davis, Damian Lillard, Kevin Durant.

Second: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Russell Westbrook, Joel Embiid, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeMar DeRozan.

Third: Stephen Curry, Victor Oladipo, Karl-Anthony Towns, Jimmy Butler, Paul George.

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/st...969506816?s=21

Having two of the top 15 players is big time.

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Post #: 152
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/1/2018 4:42:17 PM   
David Levine


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Not out of the woods yet...

Dane Moore@DaneMooreNBA
May 31
Jamal Crawford on his $4.5 million player option: “That option is on the table but I don’t really have to deal with it until the end of June.”

On the team: “Where do we go from here... It’s okay, ‘now what?’ That’s part of the thinking, for sure.”
Post #: 153
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/13/2018 12:33:16 PM   
David Levine


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Minnesota Timberwolves

Biggest need: Shooting

A glance at the Wolves’ payroll will spook you. They owe $15 million next season to Gorgui Dieng (and a total of $48 million over the next three years), $19 million each of the next two seasons to Jeff Teague, and $25 million to Andrew Wiggins as part of a contract that will keep his annual salary rising all the way to $33 million in 2022-23. They’ll also have the option to offer extensions to Karl-Anthony Towns and Jimmy Butler this summer. The former feels like a safe bet, but the latter will be more complicated, considering Butler’s age (28) and recent knee injury. All of their free agents this offseason are restricted and largely inconsequential. It will be difficult for them to find cheap improvements to round out their already shoddy depth and poor shooting. Their only option is to run it back, hope for improvement, and maybe ponder some difficult trades to open up their future.

Friendly suggestion: Try to get someone to fall in love with Wiggins, I guess.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6/13/17456996/biggest-needs-nba-offseason-western-conference
Post #: 154
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 11:33:13 AM   
David Levine


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Sources familiar with the situation told Sporting News that Butler is uncertain about playing with Wiggins — Butler had problems last season with Wiggins, his work ethic and his approach on the defensive end of the floor. Thibodeau has had similar problems with Wiggins in the past, too, and he had some hope that bringing a tough-minded veteran like Butler into the locker room would spur Wiggins to improve. It didn’t.

Teague, according to a source, went to Thibodeau during last season and suggested that Jones play more.

But sources told Sporting News that Jones met with team management after the playoffs, and Thibodeau reasserted his support of Jones and his development. Even if the Wolves re-sign Rose, Jones was assured, his minutes and opportunities would increase because Crawford is not expected to return to the team. Rose mostly played shooting guard with the Wolves last season, so there’s a chance Jones could play alongside Rose as a backcourt bench unit.

The team is also looking to trade big man Gorgui Dieng, pulled from the starting five in favor of Thibodeau favorite Taj Gibson just a year into his own four-year, $64 million extension.

There’s restricted free agent Nemanja Bjelica, too, who could come back on a qualifying offer but is likely to receive an offer that will price him out of the Wolves’ limited range.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/timberwolves-roster-news-nba-trade-rumors-karl-anthony-towns-jimmy-butler-andrew-wiggins/wz8imgz2vmi61y0pt35opiuul
Post #: 155
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 1:31:41 PM   
Phil Riewer


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How about we trade Wiggins for Parsons and the 4th and then trade Dieng and our own 1st round pick for Dinwiddie?

Thoughts?

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/15/17466934/nba-draft-rumors-heat-up-world-cup-underway-timberwolves

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Post #: 156
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 1:49:29 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

How about we trade Wiggins for Parsons and the 4th and then trade Dieng and our own 1st round pick for Dinwiddie?

Thoughts?

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/15/17466934/nba-draft-rumors-heat-up-world-cup-underway-timberwolves



I want no part of Parsons. He'll be 30 next season and his body is breaking down like an old man.
Post #: 157
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 1:52:25 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

How about we trade Wiggins for Parsons and the 4th and then trade Dieng and our own 1st round pick for Dinwiddie?

Thoughts?

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/15/17466934/nba-draft-rumors-heat-up-world-cup-underway-timberwolves


In a heartbeat. To both deals.

But Memphis should get significantly better offers than Wiggins. And I don't see why the Nets would want Dieng - especially with his contract. I think something like Faried and the #14 is a much better deal for Brooklyn - and one that Denver would jump all over.
Post #: 158
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 1:53:00 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

How about we trade Wiggins for Parsons and the 4th and then trade Dieng and our own 1st round pick for Dinwiddie?

Thoughts?

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/15/17466934/nba-draft-rumors-heat-up-world-cup-underway-timberwolves



I want no part of Parsons. He'll be 30 next season and his body is breaking down like an old man.


His contract ends 3 years sooner than Wiggins, and its likely either Doncic or JJJ will be there at #4.
Post #: 159
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 1:54:04 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

How about we trade Wiggins for Parsons and the 4th and then trade Dieng and our own 1st round pick for Dinwiddie?

Thoughts?

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/15/17466934/nba-draft-rumors-heat-up-world-cup-underway-timberwolves



I want no part of Parsons. He'll be 30 next season and his body is breaking down like an old man.


His contract ends 3 years sooner than Wiggins, and its likely either Doncic or JJJ will be there at #4.



That changes my mind.
Post #: 160
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 1:58:11 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

How about we trade Wiggins for Parsons and the 4th and then trade Dieng and our own 1st round pick for Dinwiddie?

Thoughts?

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/15/17466934/nba-draft-rumors-heat-up-world-cup-underway-timberwolves



I want no part of Parsons. He'll be 30 next season and his body is breaking down like an old man.


His contract ends 3 years sooner than Wiggins, and its likely either Doncic or JJJ will be there at #4.



That changes my mind.


And while Parsons is definitely on the downturn, he is now 2 years removed from his knee surgery, so if he could even give us 20 MPG off the bench, he could be a valuable rotational piece.
Post #: 161
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 2:10:30 PM   
Phil Riewer


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I really would do both those deals...plus I like Dinwiddie. It would get our cap straightened out sooner.

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Post #: 162
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 2:18:22 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I really would do both those deals...plus I like Dinwiddie. It would get our cap straightened out sooner.


Sure. They're both GREAT deals that are TOTALLY in our favor.

I can't see why either other team would do them.
Post #: 163
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 2:33:49 PM   
David Levine


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Looking deeper, I might not do the Nets deal.

Dinwiddie's shooting fell off a cliff last year, and it makes his 3rd year look like an extreme outlier (He didn't play much his first 2 years and was poor).

16-17: 59 games, 38/101, 38%
17-18: 80 games, 141/433, 33%

As he significantly upped his attempts, his % plummeted. He didn't actually shoot well from any level last year.

Career 39/32/80 shooter. And he'll be due for a new contract after the season. Unless the shooting really comes back around to make a new deal worth it, you're essentially trading the #20 pick to get out of Dieng's contract (which may not be the worst thing, but we need players badly...)
Post #: 164
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 3:17:53 PM   
David Levine


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That leaves Thibodeau as essentially the lone monarch left in the NBA as he prepares for his third summer in charge of the Timberwolves. And despite rampant speculation across the league that the front office structure could change this summer in Minnesota, league sources have told The Athletic that Thibodeau and GM Scott Layden will keep the same job titles heading into the 2018-19 season.

-Jon K, The Athletic
Post #: 165
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/15/2018 4:19:20 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Looking deeper, I might not do the Nets deal.

Dinwiddie's shooting fell off a cliff last year, and it makes his 3rd year look like an extreme outlier (He didn't play much his first 2 years and was poor).

16-17: 59 games, 38/101, 38%
17-18: 80 games, 141/433, 33%

As he significantly upped his attempts, his % plummeted. He didn't actually shoot well from any level last year.

Career 39/32/80 shooter. And he'll be due for a new contract after the season. Unless the shooting really comes back around to make a new deal worth it, you're essentially trading the #20 pick to get out of Dieng's contract (which may not be the worst thing, but we need players badly...)



I haven't looked up the numbers, but from memory, Dinwiddie played rather poorly with Russell on the floor.

I think the shooting will always be an issue. His slow release also somewhat negates his size/length advantage on PG's.

He did benefit from an up-tempo pace last season, as well as numerous injuries.
Post #: 166
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/16/2018 12:23:59 AM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I really would do both those deals...plus I like Dinwiddie. It would get our cap straightened out sooner.


Sure. They're both GREAT deals that are TOTALLY in our favor.

I can't see why either other team would do them.


I think the rest of the league isn't as high on Wiggins as we were/are. Does anybody want that contract? GM's still thinking he's going to blossom?

He would look really good on a bad team. He could sell tickets in Toronto. We're stuck.

I love Butler, but he needs to learn how to play with the players on his team. He's the veteran, star, stud. LeBron James resurrected careers. He took some awful players to the Finals and never spoke poorly of them when they were awful.

I think it sucks that we have Wiggins. I think he's as good as he's ever going to be. I think Butler should have to learn how to work with that.
Post #: 167
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/16/2018 9:07:28 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Amazing how fast a team can go from young budding with cap space to old and cap hell.

Perhaps Glen should have been awake when he interviewed Thib's.

Or sold the team

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Post #: 168
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/16/2018 8:12:45 PM   
Steve Lentz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I really would do both those deals...plus I like Dinwiddie. It would get our cap straightened out sooner.


Sure. They're both GREAT deals that are TOTALLY in our favor.

I can't see why either other team would do them.


I think the rest of the league isn't as high on Wiggins as we were/are. Does anybody want that contract? GM's still thinking he's going to blossom?

He would look really good on a bad team. He could sell tickets in Toronto. We're stuck.

I love Butler, but he needs to learn how to play with the players on his team. He's the veteran, star, stud. LeBron James resurrected careers. He took some awful players to the Finals and never spoke poorly of them when they were awful.

I think it sucks that we have Wiggins. I think he's as good as he's ever going to be. I think Butler should have to learn how to work with that.


Exactly.
Be a leader Butler and work and work on making your team and teammates better.

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Post #: 169
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/17/2018 8:17:13 AM   
Phil Riewer


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It might be a comment as simple as "show me you want to win kid" or else I am not playing with you. Jordan said stuff like it all the time.....I am sure Butler sees the talent.

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Post #: 170
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/17/2018 8:51:12 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It might be a comment as simple as "show me you want to win kid" or else I am not playing with you. Jordan said stuff like it all the time.....I am sure Butler sees the talent.


I'd bet its more being sick of Andrew's act on the court.

Yes, he has tons of raw athletic talent, but he's under skilled and under motivated.

4 years, 332 games, 12,000 minutes. And the only things he does at an even average NBA level for a wing is jump high and stay healthy.

Below average shooter, defender, rebounder, passer, handle, motor, etc…

Yes, he’s only 23, but he’s got A LOT of NBA experience. Odds of him even becoming a solidly average NBA player are pretty long.

But more importantly, what incentive does he have to start playing hard? In college, he underachieved his way to the #1 overall pick. And then as a Pro, he underachieved his way to a Max contract.
Post #: 171
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/17/2018 8:52:20 PM   
David Levine


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Its funny, "Rudy Gay" used to be seen by many as a worst case scenario for Wiggins.

Now we'd be thrilled if he ever gets close to Gay's play.
Post #: 172
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/17/2018 9:56:16 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Its funny, "Rudy Gay" used to be seen by many as a worst case scenario for Wiggins.

Now we'd be thrilled if he ever gets close to Gay's play.

I always thought that Rudy Gay during his healthy years would have been a good outcome for Wiggins.

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Post #: 173
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/18/2018 11:54:13 AM   
David Levine


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Looks like the bullet has been dodged:

Shams Charania✔@ShamsCharania
Minnesota's Jamal Crawford has declined his $4.5M player option for 2018-19 season, league sources tell Yahoo. Crawford averaged 10.3 points in 20.7 minutes for T'Wolves last season.

9:28 AM - Jun 18, 2018
Post #: 174
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 6/18/2018 12:15:21 PM   
twinsfan


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I sure hope we're still not going with "Butler is so good for this team."

We need to move forward with guys that can play with KAT.

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