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RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 12:06:18 AM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Phoen1x Šuns✔@Suns
On working out for other teams: “No one else… I know I’m going number one.”
-Deandre Ayton
12:29 PM - Jun 6, 2018

I'm not sure I have Ayton in my Top 5...


There is no doubt to his NBA size, length and athleticism. He was a man among boys at Tucson, hell, in the NCAA.

His biggest, most important, game to date, he came up really small. I mean really small.

Raw, clueless, unaware are the best ways to describe his defense. Paper tiger in the paint.

Obviously, some GM's are banking on this being an easy fix. I don't think so.

The so called experts like to compare him to David Robinson. The best comparison I can come up with is Michael Beasley. Ayton is 3+ inches taller, 20+ pounds heavier than Beasley was at KState.

Beasley averaged 26.2 points, 12.4 rebounds his lone year in the NCAA.
Ayton averaged 20.1 points, 11.6 rebounds. He also played 2 minutes more per game.

One thing they have in common; poor defensively.

With Ayton's size, length and athleticism you absolutely need him to be a top-notch defender. That's a project and a gamble.


Even if a team isn't sold on Doncic, how do you pass on JJJ?

One of the things that impressed me with the Stepien site is they aren't afraid to go against popular takes. They currently have Ayton #6.


Thanks for that one. I like what they do, so far.
Post #: 51
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 12:09:02 AM   
David Levine


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There is a ton of talent in this draft (and a ridiculous number of potential 3&D wings where we'll be drafting), but Doncic and JJJ are my 2 guys with legit superstar potential. Doncic as a wing and JJJ as a true 2-way Center.
Post #: 52
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 12:10:46 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 61377
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Phoen1x Šuns✔@Suns
On working out for other teams: “No one else… I know I’m going number one.”
-Deandre Ayton
12:29 PM - Jun 6, 2018

I'm not sure I have Ayton in my Top 5...


There is no doubt to his NBA size, length and athleticism. He was a man among boys at Tucson, hell, in the NCAA.

His biggest, most important, game to date, he came up really small. I mean really small.

Raw, clueless, unaware are the best ways to describe his defense. Paper tiger in the paint.

Obviously, some GM's are banking on this being an easy fix. I don't think so.

The so called experts like to compare him to David Robinson. The best comparison I can come up with is Michael Beasley. Ayton is 3+ inches taller, 20+ pounds heavier than Beasley was at KState.

Beasley averaged 26.2 points, 12.4 rebounds his lone year in the NCAA.
Ayton averaged 20.1 points, 11.6 rebounds. He also played 2 minutes more per game.

One thing they have in common; poor defensively.

With Ayton's size, length and athleticism you absolutely need him to be a top-notch defender. That's a project and a gamble.


Even if a team isn't sold on Doncic, how do you pass on JJJ?

One of the things that impressed me with the Stepien site is they aren't afraid to go against popular takes. They currently have Ayton #6.


Thanks for that one. I like what they do, so far.


With DraftExpress being defunct (and ESPN criminally underusing Givony), its easily the best draft info site out there. And I like that they have multiple guys doing their own rankings.
Post #: 53
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 1:03:23 AM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

There is a ton of talent in this draft (and a ridiculous number of potential 3&D wings where we'll be drafting), but Doncic and JJJ are my 2 guys with legit superstar potential. Doncic as a wing and JJJ as a true 2-way Center.



I'm excited about this draft class. It's fun to watch how players respond/translate to the NBA game.

I'm not as excited about what I think we'll do with it.
Post #: 54
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 8:44:23 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

There is a ton of talent in this draft (and a ridiculous number of potential 3&D wings where we'll be drafting), but Doncic and JJJ are my 2 guys with legit superstar potential. Doncic as a wing and JJJ as a true 2-way Center.



I'm excited about this draft class. It's fun to watch how players respond/translate to the NBA game.

I'm not as excited about what I think we'll do with it.


I'd love to weigh in, but history has proven that I am utterly clueless when it comes to projecting how college players will perform in the NBA. My recommendation is that Thibs follow this forum and avoid anyone I think will be great like the plague. If I hate a player, he should laser focus on that guy.

_____________________________

When you have good players that aren’t particularly good leaders, their coaches or managers will say that they “lead by example.” It’s a polite way of saying they don’t lead.
Post #: 55
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 12:53:36 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 61377
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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A nice breakdown of a Canis poster's Top 10 players using his own metric (that has been pretty solid the past few years):

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/13/17439996/smilodon-2-0-the-top-ten-doncic-jackson-bamba

He's crazy about Doncic (who has his best projection in his system of anyone in the last seven drafts.), calls JJJ “Myles Turner, except better at everything”, and says of Ayton "In an empty gym, Ayton looks like the best player in this class."

< Message edited by David Levine -- 6/13/2018 12:56:58 PM >
Post #: 56
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 3:07:58 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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I'm more flummoxed by this draft than ever. Probablty since I'm not used to the Wolves drafting so low. Usually it's, look at the cream of the draft crop, then identify the best player after that initial dropoff and bingo...Wolves pick. Towns being an exception.

I know this. It will be futile to try and determine immediate need. Completely irrelevant since he will never get off of Thibs bench anyway.

_____________________________

President Pence will be worse.
Post #: 57
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 3:51:01 PM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

I'm more flummoxed by this draft than ever. Probablty since I'm not used to the Wolves drafting so low. Usually it's, look at the cream of the draft crop, then identify the best player after that initial dropoff and bingo...Wolves pick. Towns being an exception.

I know this. It will be futile to try and determine immediate need. Completely irrelevant since he will never get off of Thibs bench anyway.


Nearly every player mocked in our area is a version of a potential 3&D guy.

So you know we'll take a project big man or a PG.
Post #: 58
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 4:18:14 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

I'm more flummoxed by this draft than ever. Probablty since I'm not used to the Wolves drafting so low. Usually it's, look at the cream of the draft crop, then identify the best player after that initial dropoff and bingo...Wolves pick. Towns being an exception.

I know this. It will be futile to try and determine immediate need. Completely irrelevant since he will never get off of Thibs bench anyway.


Nearly every player mocked in our area is a version of a potential 3&D guy.

So you know we'll take a project big man or a PG.


Makes sense. We need a Jamal Crawford, who's not so Jamal Crawfordy.

But like I said, it's hard to get too excited about what we need knowing he won't play anyway.

_____________________________

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Post #: 59
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/13/2018 8:51:57 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

I'm more flummoxed by this draft than ever. Probablty since I'm not used to the Wolves drafting so low. Usually it's, look at the cream of the draft crop, then identify the best player after that initial dropoff and bingo...Wolves pick. Towns being an exception.

I know this. It will be futile to try and determine immediate need. Completely irrelevant since he will never get off of Thibs bench anyway.


Nearly every player mocked in our area is a version of a potential 3&D guy.

So you know we'll take a project big man or a PG.


Makes sense. We need a Jamal Crawford, who's not so Jamal Crawfordy.

But like I said, it's hard to get too excited about what we need knowing he won't play anyway.

I'm pretty high on Simons. So ok if we go PG.

_____________________________

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So let it be done."
Post #: 60
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/14/2018 10:51:08 AM   
David Levine


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My 3 favorite wings that *should* be there at 20:

Josh Okogie. 6'5, 7'0 wingspan, 19 years old.

Positives: Versatile defender that can switch multiple positions, outstanding help defender, excellent rebounder. 3 ball is a little slow, but accurate (38%). Has some off the bounce scoring ability, draws a ton of fouls, very good cutter. Very young for a guy with 2 years of college ball under his belt.

Negative: Shot needs some refining. Its almost a set shot with a low release, handle is just OK, needs to get stronger finishing.

Bottom line: 3&D player with upside to be more than that.

Jacob Evans. 6'6, 6'9.25 wingspan, 20 years old.

Positives: Excellent defender, gets steals and blocks. Good decision maker, very good spot-up 3-point shooter (37%).

Negative: On offense he's almost exclusively a catch and shoot guy.

Age is kind of both a positive and negative. Turns 21 next week, which is a bit old, BUT he's really young for a guy who has played 3 years of college.

Bottom line: Classic 3&D player.

Kyyri Thomas, Creighton. 6'4, 6'10.5 wingspan, 22 years old.

Positives: Monster perimeter defender, elite quickness and anticipation. Great technique. Can switch 1-3. Knockdown spot-up 3-point shooter (41%), solid finisher.

Negative: Not much of a creator, struggles shooting off the dribble. On the older side for a prospect.

Bottom line: 3&D player who looks like he should continue to fill out over the next few years.
Post #: 61
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/14/2018 10:58:52 AM   
twinsfan


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We're looking to add wings.

_____________________________

When Robbie Grossman is your DH, you could be a playoff team. See 2017.
Post #: 62
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/14/2018 11:16:52 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

We're looking to add wings.


We are. No one knows if Thibs is.

He was prepared to go into last season with just 2 wings on the roster before Shabazz came back late for the minimum...
Post #: 63
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/14/2018 11:25:21 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

We're looking to add wings.


We are. No one knows if Thibs is.

He was prepared to go into last season with just 2 wings on the roster before Shabazz came back late for the minimum...


He also planned to draft Markkanan, who I said would a piece of garbage, so what do I know?

_____________________________

When you have good players that aren’t particularly good leaders, their coaches or managers will say that they “lead by example.” It’s a polite way of saying they don’t lead.
Post #: 64
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/14/2018 12:26:07 PM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

We're looking to add wings.


We are. No one knows if Thibs is.

He was prepared to go into last season with just 2 wings on the roster before Shabazz came back late for the minimum...

Thibs is looking to add wings. I've heard audio of it. He uses those exact words. But the audio sounds like it may have been taken from a visit to B-Dubs.

_____________________________

When Robbie Grossman is your DH, you could be a playoff team. See 2017.
Post #: 65
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/14/2018 1:48:43 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 61377
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nbadraft.net continues to be such an awful resource. I swear they just do the weirdest shit in the hopes that they get one right and can then crow about it.

The last 2 guys they've linked us to (Brown and Simons) do nothing to address any of our needs and would both likely be reaches at 20.

A few years ago (before the original owners left) it was at least a very poor man's version of DX. Now its just sad...

< Message edited by David Levine -- 6/14/2018 2:19:48 PM >
Post #: 66
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/15/2018 2:36:46 PM   
David Levine


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Memo: NBA draft eligibility could shift by 2021
12:27 PM PT
Zach Lowe
ESPN Senior Writer


The NBA on Friday sent teams a memo indicating that "eligibility rules" for the draft may shift as early as 2021 (but no earlier) as the league reviews issues "related to player development and the corruption investigation in college basketball," according to a copy of the memo obtained by ESPN.

The memo does not mention the one-and-done rule by name, but it is meant to remind teams the league and the players union could agree to scrap one-and-done before the expiration of the current collective bargaining deal in 2024 -- and perhaps well before then, sources say. The memo says that as of now, the league does not expect changes in draft eligibility rules would take place at any time "prior to the 2021 or 2022 draft" -- for example in 2019 or 2020.

If such a change were to happen, it could create a single draft loaded with the best prospects from two consecutive high school classes.

The memo serves as something of an advisory to teams who might think about trading away future first-round picks in the lead-up to Thursday's draft. As of now, no team owes a first-round pick in 2022 or any year beyond that. Three teams owe 2021 first-round picks, though two of those could change hands earlier under the protections assigned to them. (Memphis owes Boston a pick that is top-8 protected in 2019, top-6 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2021. Milwaukee owes Phoenix a pick protected both 1-3 and 17-30 in 2019, top-7 protected in 2020, and then unprotected in 2021.) Only one unprotected 2021 pick has already been traded -- the pick Miami dealt to Phoenix in the 2015 Goran Dragic trade.

The league instituted the one-and-done rule in 2005, stipulating that players had to be either 19 or at least one year removed from their high school class graduation to be draft eligible.

In recent months, both Adam Silver, the NBA's commissioner, and Michele Roberts, executive director of the National Basketball Players Association, have spoken about the likelihood that the two sides might agree to end the rule. The league's current collective bargaining agreement runs through 2024, but the two sides are free to rework individual deal points between now and then.

Potentially allowing elite high school prospects back into the draft is just one part of the NBA's broader plan to revamp its relationship with youth basketball -- and specifically with players who wish to skip college and earn professional wages right away. The federal investigation into corruption within the youth and college basketball apparatus has created an opening for the NBA to extend its influence into those age groups.

The league had investigated the possibility of setting up European-style academies for the best U.S. prospects before shifting to other strategies. (The NBA operates academies in China, India, Senegal, Australia, and Mexico.) League officials are still discussing ways to establish more points of contact with top high school players, including at camps and tournaments.

The league has long sought a true minor league system via its developmental G League. The G League will have 27 teams next season, with Portland, New Orleans and Denver the last NBA teams without G League affiliates. The NBA in April announced it will raise G League player salaries from a maximum of $26,000 per year to $35,000. The league last season introduced more lucrative two-way contracts for players who shuttle between the G League and the parent club.

A 30-team G League with competitive salaries would present prospects with a viable alternative to both college basketball and international leagues that do not operate with an age limit. The NBA has broached internally the idea of eventually adding a third round to the draft to give teams more chances at filling all these potential roster spots.

The league will discuss the issue further during annual meetings at Summer League in Las Vegas, the memo says.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23804458/memo-states-nba-draft-eligibility-shift-21
Post #: 67
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/15/2018 4:12:51 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

A nice breakdown of a Canis poster's Top 10 players using his own metric (that has been pretty solid the past few years):

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/13/17439996/smilodon-2-0-the-top-ten-doncic-jackson-bamba

He's crazy about Doncic (who has his best projection in his system of anyone in the last seven drafts.), calls JJJ “Myles Turner, except better at everything”, and says of Ayton "In an empty gym, Ayton looks like the best player in this class."



I thought that was a pretty good breakdown.

Bamba's wingspan is crazy.
Post #: 68
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/15/2018 4:26:48 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 61377
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

A nice breakdown of a Canis poster's Top 10 players using his own metric (that has been pretty solid the past few years):

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/13/17439996/smilodon-2-0-the-top-ten-doncic-jackson-bamba

He's crazy about Doncic (who has his best projection in his system of anyone in the last seven drafts.), calls JJJ “Myles Turner, except better at everything”, and says of Ayton "In an empty gym, Ayton looks like the best player in this class."



I thought that was a pretty good breakdown.

Bamba's wingspan is crazy.


Beat out Gobert, so he'll have the longest wingspan of any combine measured player in league history.

He's probably my #3 guy in the draft, but a very distant 3rd.
Post #: 69
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/15/2018 5:23:02 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Thought they were leaning more toward raising the draft age to 20 not lowering back down again.

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Post #: 70
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/15/2018 5:44:36 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 61377
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Thought they were leaning more toward raising the draft age to 20 not lowering back down again.


No reason to raise the age.

I get it in football where 18 year-olds are likely not strong enough for such a physical game, but why force kids to go to college or take a year off? Especially when HS kids have historically done VERY well entering the NBA:

40 HS Seniors were drafted between 1995 and 2005.
8 have made at least 1 All-NBA Team.
10 have made at least 1 All-Star Team.
5 are in (or locks for) the HoF.
19 others were/are rotation regulars for most of their careers.
Only 2 never made the NBA (and both were 2nd round foreign picks).

That's an outstanding ratio. Much better than if you do the same with college kids.
Post #: 71
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/15/2018 9:49:59 PM   
JT2

 

Posts: 11804
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

A nice breakdown of a Canis poster's Top 10 players using his own metric (that has been pretty solid the past few years):

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/13/17439996/smilodon-2-0-the-top-ten-doncic-jackson-bamba

He's crazy about Doncic (who has his best projection in his system of anyone in the last seven drafts.), calls JJJ “Myles Turner, except better at everything”, and says of Ayton "In an empty gym, Ayton looks like the best player in this class."



I thought that was a pretty good breakdown.

Bamba's wingspan is crazy.


Beat out Gobert, so he'll have the longest wingspan of any combine measured player in league history.

He's probably my #3 guy in the draft, but a very distant 3rd.


I don't have him quite that high, but that wingspan alone makes me reconsider.

In a pure mathematical sense, look at the area he can cover and obstruct.

I'd like to coach the All-Wingspan team. I'm not sure who would be on that team, but Rondo, Wade, Bamba, Whiteside, Cousins, Gobert certainly have to be there.
Post #: 72
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/15/2018 11:33:35 PM   
JT2

 

Posts: 11804
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Thought they were leaning more toward raising the draft age to 20 not lowering back down again.


No reason to raise the age.

I get it in football where 18 year-olds are likely not strong enough for such a physical game, but why force kids to go to college or take a year off? Especially when HS kids have historically done VERY well entering the NBA:

40 HS Seniors were drafted between 1995 and 2005.
8 have made at least 1 All-NBA Team.
10 have made at least 1 All-Star Team.
5 are in (or locks for) the HoF.
19 others were/are rotation regulars for most of their careers.
Only 2 never made the NBA (and both were 2nd round foreign picks).

That's an outstanding ratio. Much better than if you do the same with college kids.


It was a horrible idea to restrict eligibility in the first place.

Who are you protecting/helping?

I don't think I was ever a fan of a commissioner...until Adam Silver.
Post #: 73
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/16/2018 12:00:26 AM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

There is a ton of talent in this draft (and a ridiculous number of potential 3&D wings where we'll be drafting), but Doncic and JJJ are my 2 guys with legit superstar potential. Doncic as a wing and JJJ as a true 2-way Center.



I'm excited about this draft class. It's fun to watch how players respond/translate to the NBA game.

I'm not as excited about what I think we'll do with it.


I'd love to weigh in, but history has proven that I am utterly clueless when it comes to projecting how college players will perform in the NBA. My recommendation is that Thibs follow this forum and avoid anyone I think will be great like the plague. If I hate a player, he should laser focus on that guy.


Don't keep us in the dark. Who do you love and who do you hate?
Post #: 74
RE: 2018 NBA Draft - 6/19/2018 12:36:12 PM   
David Levine


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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
This is fun. A Canis poster's response to all the mocks that comp every player to a superstar:

Here are some draft comps for y'all, in ESPN's draft order:

1) DeAndre Ayton: Buff JaVale McGee
2) Marvin Bagley III: AAU Hype Kenneth Faried
3) Jaren Jackson Jr: Anthony Randolph but with foul trouble
4) Luka Doncic: Thicc Milos Teodosic
5) Mo Bamba: Skinny Alexis Ajinca
6) Wendell Carter Jr: Short, American Dragan Bender
7) Michael Porter Jr: Michael Beasley, but with a career-threatening injury
8) Trae Young: Much smaller Jimmer Freddette
9) Kevin Knox: Slightly taller James Young
10) Mikal Bridges: Denzel Valentine with an NCAA Championship but without good passing
11) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander: Literally just Wade Baldwin
12) Collin Sexton: NCAA-eligible Emmanuel Mudiay
13) Lonnie Walker IV: Dion Waiters with cooler hair
14) Miles Bridges: Slower, less coordinated Tobias Harris
Post #: 75
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