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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 1:44:39 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20147
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Pager, instant gratification in terms of filling a need with a reach vs. Hughes being a far greater asset during a SB run.



What is your evidence that taking an olineman was a "reach"at 30 especially in the context of statements made after draft or based on predraft grades on lineman available at 30? Hughes as an asset is merely conjecture at this point. Along with everything else. And again the picks aren't in a vaccum. There is more than just the pick 30.

Damn it, I've danced this dance too many times. I'm out.


Well said. The Vikings needed a guard who could start this year more than a cb who might start next year. By all accounts, that player was there when we picked at 30, but Spielman got cute.


I don't know if RS could ever get cute, but he did the smart thing and took, by far, the best person left in the draft when he took Hughes. This will probably prove out in a couple of years, but as for now, the argument for need over talent will just have to run itself out. We have what we have, the coaches have to get an o-line, with some depth thrown in, ready to go for the season. We have seen no evidence, yet, that we can't get a serviceable o-line ready to play.

The ding to Remmers was just that, a ding, Elf is almost ready to return and has time to get ready for the season and Easton can be replaced. Lets see a couple preseason game so we can judge where we're at.

Hughes isn't just looking good. He is looking VERY good. I'm mostly a draft for talent first with a bit of modification based on Need. IF we can patch together a serviceable line I'm confident we will look back in a couple years and say Hughes was the right pick. But if our passing game is nullified because we can't stop the rush we will regret taking Hughes over the O Line talent.


You are correct, if we can't stop the rush and our passing game is crap, perhaps we will regret not taking a guard first. But I will say, if that is the case, how much would a guard have helped the entire line.

Easton was a good run blocker, reports are there are a couple of guys displaying solid results in practice at the run game. Easton was not a great pass blocker, average would be about right for him. We don't really know what Compton will bring at guard, Isadora is showing growth, encouraging words about Collins and Edison, so there are guys for that spot to take a look at. Easton can't be the guy we were hanging our O-line hopes on, he had good moments and would be nice to have, but if we are saying we are desperate now that he's gone, well, I'd have to disagree with that.

P.S., I know you weren't saying this KG, it's more a general point!

It's a snowball effect. One guy lost does make a big difference a lot of the time and as of now even assuming Elflein and Remmers get healthy we are down two of our starters from last year. Hopefully the good reports we are hearing about some of the backups prove true. I don't expect every play to be a jailbreak.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/10/2018 1:50:02 AM >


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Post #: 851
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 1:45:48 AM   
Dana Turner


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If things work out, Hughes might be able to take Waynes spot next year, freeing up money for Richardson and Barr if that's they way they want to go. Hill has been a pleasant find and I think with time he too can be an asset.

Wilson has shown the type of growth you like to see in a second year player and looks to have a bright future. Perhaps he will be good enough to let Barr move on, but I am hoping not, I like Barr. The depth at LB actually looks surprisingly good this year, it's shaping up to not only be a talented defense, but a deep one as well.

The D-line is the heart of this defense and is maybe only slightly rivaled for depth by the D-backs. It's a deep line that will hopefully allow for more rotation, rotation that actually happens. Zim will only allow guys to play that he knows will do their job, if not, you sit back and learn until you conform and do your job, he's that kind of coach, a good thing.

With this defense, I see our offense needing to be able to run the ball. If you have an O-line that is struggling a bit, nothing better then using the run game to set them free. All accounts are the run game is the best part of our offense, if so, then as these guys grow together and play more, the play action will get better and be a solid weapon. I don't expect to see "Air Coryell" from these guys. Crisp routes, chain moving stuff, but not a lot of seven step drops. Use your two horses and run the ball down their throats, demoralize them, then when they can't take it no more, drop a dime over their heads and call it good.
Post #: 852
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 6:28:28 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

I recently read the Draft thread trying to catch up. I didn't see anything about Rick saying Zimmer wanted OL in the first ... but that doesn't mean it's not there


I don't think internal conversations such as this are made public.

BTW welcome back Ricky.

Pretty sure Zim was slobbering all over himself when Hughes was still on the board and Rick knuckled under. All indicators point toward this being an excellent pick/value.

I think if you want to go BPA vs Need, you need to fill those needs in FA

Berger filed his retirement papers early. Regime seemed to already have their minds made up to slide Remy inside and go with Hill at RT. So the starting oline was set early.

Thought we should have brought in a better FA than Tom "camp fodder" Compton though.

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Post #: 853
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 7:10:33 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Anybody familiar with Joeckel. He was a high draft pick by Jax that never panned out as a T

Not sure if he was moved inside by another team or not.

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Post #: 854
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 7:31:44 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Jahri Evans is probably the most servicable G on the FA market. Started lst season for the Pack but I'm not sure what side he is most comfortable with.

Seems like filling that LG spot has been a quandry for us the last several seasons. We keep putting guys that have been used to playing on the right side over there (Boone, Fusco, Remy) with poor results.

Easton's arrow was pointing up. This is a big loss.

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Post #: 855
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 7:41:59 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 12373
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Pager, instant gratification in terms of filling a need with a reach vs. Hughes being a far greater asset during a SB run.



What is your evidence that taking an olineman was a "reach"at 30 especially in the context of statements made after draft or based on predraft grades on lineman available at 30? Hughes as an asset is merely conjecture at this point. Along with everything else. And again the picks aren't in a vaccum. There is more than just the pick 30.

Damn it, I've danced this dance too many times. I'm out.


Well said. The Vikings needed a guard who could start this year more than a cb who might start next year. By all accounts, that player was there when we picked at 30, but Spielman got cute.

Hernandez, Daniels, possibly even Williams would have been better picks than O'Neill most likely. However, looking at things now Hughes is looking like a potential superstar. Probably the best move would have been to stick with Hughes in the first and traded up for Williams in the second. Right now we are just guessing. As they always say it will take a couple years or more to know.


The run on offensive linemen continued at the top of the second round. The Vikings would have had to given up quite a bit of their draft capital to move that far up. (ie. like a next year's first rounder or their second, third, and more)

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Post #: 856
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 7:56:49 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20147
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Pager, instant gratification in terms of filling a need with a reach vs. Hughes being a far greater asset during a SB run.



What is your evidence that taking an olineman was a "reach"at 30 especially in the context of statements made after draft or based on predraft grades on lineman available at 30? Hughes as an asset is merely conjecture at this point. Along with everything else. And again the picks aren't in a vaccum. There is more than just the pick 30.

Damn it, I've danced this dance too many times. I'm out.


Well said. The Vikings needed a guard who could start this year more than a cb who might start next year. By all accounts, that player was there when we picked at 30, but Spielman got cute.

Hernandez, Daniels, possibly even Williams would have been better picks than O'Neill most likely. However, looking at things now Hughes is looking like a potential superstar. Probably the best move would have been to stick with Hughes in the first and traded up for Williams in the second. Right now we are just guessing. As they always say it will take a couple years or more to know.


The run on offensive linemen continued at the top of the second round. The Vikings would have had to given up quite a bit of their draft capital to move that far up. (ie. like a next year's first rounder or their second, third, and more)

The spot Williams was drafted was not very far up at all. I think at most it would have cost us the pick we used to trade back for Holmes.
The latest word on Williams is he is expected to be a starter for the Dallas Cowboys.
Bryan Broaddus of dallascowboys.com expects second-round OL Connor Williams to start at left guard.
He'll have to learn a new position in the pros with five-time Pro Bowler Tyron Smith blocking his path at left tackle. Williams will get the first crack at left guard, where he'll be tasked with replacing last year's starter, Jonathan Cooper. If Williams plays to his abilities, the Cowboys could have an absolutely stacked offensive line this year. That's great news for Zeke Elliott. Jul 10 - 7:52 PM
Source: dallascowboys.com


< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/10/2018 8:15:41 AM >


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Post #: 857
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 8:13:50 AM   
kgdabom

 

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Sporting News had this to say about O'Neill on draft night.

The Vikings might be rolling Mike Remmers into a regular role at right guard with this pick, as O’Neill is a physical, smooth athlete who is good enough to start right away at right tackle. At that position, some of his limitations in pass protection will be less exposed in front of Kirk Cousins.

Regardless of what people think and wish we had of done Hughes and O'Neill were our first two picks. No trade ups or backs. They are the two we have to rely on going forward. I have high hopes for both.

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Post #: 858
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 8:44:01 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

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Post #: 859
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 8:45:53 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 13706
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Lock 10
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

I recently read the Draft thread trying to catch up. I didn't see anything about Rick saying Zimmer wanted OL in the first ... but that doesn't mean it's not there


I don't think internal conversations such as this are made public.

BTW welcome back Ricky.

Pretty sure Zim was slobbering all over himself when Hughes was still on the board and Rick knuckled under. All indicators point toward this being an excellent pick/value.

I think if you want to go BPA vs Need, you need to fill those needs in FA

Berger filed his retirement papers early. Regime seemed to already have their minds made up to slide Remy inside and go with Hill at RT. So the starting oline was set early.

Thought we should have brought in a better FA than Tom "camp fodder" Compton though.


Thanks Bill. Hope everything is well on the other side of the river.

I think if Hughes is everything that most of think he could be this is a no brainer. But there's a lot of wait and see left
Post #: 860
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 9:22:34 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20147
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.

_____________________________

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Post #: 861
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 9:42:50 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 14673
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.


My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?

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Post #: 862
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:06:54 AM   
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.


My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?


Hopefully! This is our team and we're all hoping for the best, but since its the Vikings, anything that can go wrong usually does. Other than QB, this was the one real question mark about this team at the end of last year, and its an even bigger question mark heading into this year. We're unsure about 80% of the line. It's just frustrating because we always seem to be playing catch up when it comes to the oline. It burned us in 2016, and Spielman looked like he finally understood that it needed to be a priority and made some quality moves last year, but he stopped his efforts prematurely. It would be nice to feel as good about the oline as we do every other position on the team. Anyway, complaining over, bring on the season!

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Post #: 863
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:17:07 AM   
David F.


Posts: 6806
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.


My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?



Um... OF COURSE! Are you new here? That's what I do - make really big issues out of stuff.

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Post #: 864
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:25:32 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 63699
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Pager, instant gratification in terms of filling a need with a reach vs. Hughes being a far greater asset during a SB run.



What is your evidence that taking an olineman was a "reach"at 30 especially in the context of statements made after draft or based on predraft grades on lineman available at 30? Hughes as an asset is merely conjecture at this point. Along with everything else. And again the picks aren't in a vaccum. There is more than just the pick 30.

Damn it, I've danced this dance too many times. I'm out.


Well said. The Vikings needed a guard who could start this year more than a cb who might start next year. By all accounts, that player was there when we picked at 30, but Spielman got cute.

Revisionist. Completely.

By no accounts was a starting Guard available at #30. In fact, the only G in the draft generally considered '2018 starting caliber' was taken #6 (Nelson).

How long are people going to keep fantasizing about the 2018 OG draft class. Weird.


Exactly.

If Hernandez was a "by all accounts, first year starter" he would've been drafted WAY earlier.

I think he's probably going to be a fine player, but being penciled in as a starter for a 3-13 team that had a much worse O-Line than we did isn't exactly giving me buyers remorse on Hughes.
Post #: 865
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:26:43 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 14673
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.

My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?

Um... OF COURSE! Are you new here? That's what I do - make really big issues out of stuff.


The biggest hyperbole going on is comparing this to 2016. Having the two injury issues to Remmers and Easton plus Elflein still recovering early in camp gives the FO time to zig or zag plus there are a ton of bodies in camp----they will get a ton of work.

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Post #: 866
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:27:37 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20147
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.


My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?



Um... OF COURSE! Are you new here? That's what I do - make really big issues out of stuff.

I think it's fair to make an issue out of the line. As of right now we only have one returning member practicing. We have two of them expected back soon. At best we have to replace 40% of the line.

However the people being replaced aren't irreplaceable. I think we will be OK at best and likely a bit below that.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 867
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:30:00 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 14673
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.


My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?



Um... OF COURSE! Are you new here? That's what I do - make really big issues out of stuff.

I think it's fair to make an issue out of the line. As of right now we only have one returning member practicing. We have two of them expected back soon. At best we have to replace 40% of the line.

However the people being replaced aren't irreplaceable. I think we will be OK at best and likely a bit below that.


My math isn't always correct but Reiff and Hill makes two 40%....Remmers and Elflein coming back soon makes 80%

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Post #: 868
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:35:41 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20147
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.


My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?



Um... OF COURSE! Are you new here? That's what I do - make really big issues out of stuff.

I think it's fair to make an issue out of the line. As of right now we only have one returning member practicing. We have two of them expected back soon. At best we have to replace 40% of the line.

However the people being replaced aren't irreplaceable. I think we will be OK at best and likely a bit below that.


My math isn't always correct but Reiff and Hill makes two 40%....Remmers and Elflein coming back soon makes 80%

Hill was not a starter last year he was a replacement/sub. Berger was the starter.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 869
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:41:33 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 14673
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.


My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?



Um... OF COURSE! Are you new here? That's what I do - make really big issues out of stuff.

I think it's fair to make an issue out of the line. As of right now we only have one returning member practicing. We have two of them expected back soon. At best we have to replace 40% of the line.

However the people being replaced aren't irreplaceable. I think we will be OK at best and likely a bit below that.


My math isn't always correct but Reiff and Hill makes two 40%....Remmers and Elflein coming back soon makes 80%

Hill was not a starter last year he was a replacement/sub. Berger was the starter.


First Remmers was hurt a game or two and then after Easton got hurt they left Hill at RT and put Remmers at RG. He also started a game in 2016.
https://www.vikings.com/team/players-roster/rashod-hill/
Look at Games Started in 2017---I see 7.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/10/2018 10:44:46 AM >


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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 870
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 10:47:02 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 14673
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
PA was talking about how the best thing about practicing with Jax is seeing their players at your need positions. He thinks we can scout and trade for Oline help with them (after the practice). Their 7-8 best lineman may become our 6-7 best.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/10/2018 10:49:18 AM >


_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 871
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 11:05:54 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20147
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh man guys....the best thing to happen is that before the first preseason game they know they won't have Easton.

If Edison is capable they can go:
Reiff
Elf
Edison
Remmers
Hill

If Collins/Isidora are capable:
Reiff
Collins
Elf
Isidora
Remmers

There is way more talent in this group than given credit for. Isidora, Compton, Collins, and Edison are all capable of filling in....they will work on it and figure this out. It isn't like we lost our top 3 bookend Tackles by game 5, we lost a Guard who may be back in the last quarter of the year.

I have not even looked into the possibility of an Easton return this season, but it is a signficant question. I think the Vikings are good enough to make the playoffs even if the Offensive line is really offensive. So if he can return and upgrade the line in time for the playoffs that would be huge.


My question is this....Remmers and Elflein are expected back soon and we haven't even played the 1st PreSeason game. Are we making this a bigger issue than it is?



Um... OF COURSE! Are you new here? That's what I do - make really big issues out of stuff.

I think it's fair to make an issue out of the line. As of right now we only have one returning member practicing. We have two of them expected back soon. At best we have to replace 40% of the line.

However the people being replaced aren't irreplaceable. I think we will be OK at best and likely a bit below that.


My math isn't always correct but Reiff and Hill makes two 40%....Remmers and Elflein coming back soon makes 80%

Hill was not a starter last year he was a replacement/sub. Berger was the starter.


First Remmers was hurt a game or two and then after Easton got hurt they left Hill at RT and put Remmers at RG. He also started a game in 2016.
https://www.vikings.com/team/players-roster/rashod-hill/
Look at Games Started in 2017---I see 7.

Phil do you really want to argue this?
The starters last year were Reiff, Remmers, Easton, Berger, and Elflein. Hill only started some games because of injury to the actual starters. This in no way should be a debate.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 872
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 11:09:38 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 14673
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
So Berger retires...the guy that started 7 games last year isn't figured in as a starter going into this year?

Quit making guys that have starting experience or looked bad against playoff teams into scrubs and it will help your outlook. Jax, Philly, NO, and the other playoff teams made Olines look bad.....so how do you improve. Hill is 26, has starter experience, and needs more reps against high quality DLine is one way.

So you practice against the Jaguars....

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/10/2018 11:14:05 AM >


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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 873
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 11:11:31 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 63699
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

So Berger retires...the guy that started 7 games last year isn't figured in as a starter?


So I guess Keenum shouldn't be considered our starting QB last year either - as he replaced the starter due to injury...
Post #: 874
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/10/2018 11:19:51 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20147
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

So Berger retires...the guy that started 7 games last year isn't figured in as a starter going into this year?

Quit making guys that have starting experience or looked bad against playoff teams into scrubs and it will help your outlook. Jax, Philly, NO, and the other playoff teams made Olines look bad.....so how do you improve. Hill is 26, has starter experience, and needs more reps against high quality DLine is one way.

So you practice against the Jaguars....

Berger is one of the two starters last year that we need to replace. I don't think I have a negative outlook. Our line overall last year was below average. While we had all five starters it was arguably average. We have to replace two of the starters. Considering Hill was the top reserve last year he is first in line to become one of the new starters.
Hopefully Isadora, Compton, Collins, Edison, and O'Neill will prove up to the task when called on.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/10/2018 11:24:40 AM >


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