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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/27/2018 7:22:36 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 24681
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

A lot of really good points made here. OL is indeed a problem. Also, that was a good catch about our skill positions like Rudolph and Treadwell and how they hold us back from being a truly high octane offense w/ so many weapons. Think NO or the Rams. They simply overwhelm opponents because the offense is so stacked. For example, NO is quite possibly going to win it all this year, IMO. Between Brees, Kamara, and Thomas, they have assembled a lethal combination. It's pick your poison in covering them all efficiently play after play.

Rudolph needs to share some time w/ a better field-stretching TE. OJ Howard was really starting to come on before his injury. A guy like that would be awesome. Mayfield is starting to develop some chemistry w/ Njowku in Cleveland. The point is that our offense is lacking that second tier of being elite.

OL is a mess. Reiff has been hurt and not even playing that great when he's on the field. Remmers is underwhelming. Rashod Hill is just a backup. Nothing more. That leaves Elflien, who really is a key player to build around. Being injured for the first half of the season hurt, though. There are two trains of thought here. One is that their injuries prevented them from gaining chemistry during the regular season. It's just different from preseason games and training camp. They were decent last year (at least competent in run and pass blocking). Which leads me to the second thought. Perhaps Keenum rolling out and making so many big plays through broken plays and sandlot football made our O-line look better than they were. It gained them the advantage of being able to block people in space instead of being bull rushed at the line, requiring more physical play. Now that Cousins is the QB, we see a more traditional pocket QB style offense that relies way less in a QB using his feet to scramble and make plays on the run. Because of that, there is way more trench battle at the line that we are, quite frankly, losing. We just don't seem very physical, IMO.


Any thoughts on Brian O'neill?
Post #: 8826
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/27/2018 7:25:07 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 24681
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

My $0.02:

Mondays are always better after a win - especially against the Puke.

Solid game by Cousins, Rudy, Thielen, Diggs on offense. All made tough plays. Thielen is one tough S.O.B.

Sheldon had a good game. DL played well as a unit.

The pass call to ice the game was great.

#17 got the better of X a few times.

The false start call on our long FG attempt was BS. The DL moved. Then the non-call on the hit on Bailey. Even the announcer ref dude was like WTF.

Defense on the Puke rushing TD was abysmal.

My wife says "wow - the Puke OL sure gets away with a lot of holding."

Clayroid: one trick pony. Done.

McCarthy was going to have a heart attack when they got called for delay. He's gone, too.

Not sure why we chose to take the kick rather than defer...even if we were trying to send some subtle love letter to the offense.

The 12 men penalty.....ugh.

That play where Diggs doubled back and lost 10 yards......ugh.

Was feeling like a shitty start.....then we got our act together.

We physically whipped them.

Remmers had a bad game.

Elf out blocking on the screen TD was awesome.



I was at US Bank for my first game. It was awesome.

Lars with a pretty good sum up.

Hill got torched against Adams but luckily Rogers overthrew him.

Great team effort, but we dominated about 3 quarters of that game. To have it come down to an onside/one possession game was disappointing.

Also disappointing was our run blocking. With Daniels out, we should have been more effective, though we were effective when it mattered. That 7 minute drive was vintage 2017 Vikes. Just effective enough running and picking up some key third downs. Shoulda got points on that drive.

But overall a win is a win. Let's keep it going.



Pretty impressive facility, right?

Glad you got to witness a win. Bonus for who it was against.


Everybody in the league, and everybody's fans know that our run blocking is not good, except for our coaching staff. Anything and short.......we run. The one time we actually went play fake, it worked.

We have to stop playing to our weakness, because of some crazy notion that it's tough football. So predictable.

2nd and short is like free money. We don't seem to want it. 2nd and short to us means we have two chances to get a yard.

I just kind of chuckled when Cousins QB sneaked on 2nd and 1.

Actually, after that, we opened it up pretty good and I really can't remember any times where we became overly predictable.

We are going to need 27 to 30 points to beat NE(if weather is good) so hopefully DeFlip keeps it going.


I was irritated by it. Last week on 3 and inches we hand the ball off to a back 7 yards in the backfield. This week on 2nd and inches we QB sneak it, a perfect situation to take a shot.
Post #: 8827
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/27/2018 7:32:53 PM   
Pager


Posts: 8298
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

My $0.02:

Mondays are always better after a win - especially against the Puke.

Solid game by Cousins, Rudy, Thielen, Diggs on offense. All made tough plays. Thielen is one tough S.O.B.

Sheldon had a good game. DL played well as a unit.

The pass call to ice the game was great.

#17 got the better of X a few times.

The false start call on our long FG attempt was BS. The DL moved. Then the non-call on the hit on Bailey. Even the announcer ref dude was like WTF.

Defense on the Puke rushing TD was abysmal.

My wife says "wow - the Puke OL sure gets away with a lot of holding."

Clayroid: one trick pony. Done.

McCarthy was going to have a heart attack when they got called for delay. He's gone, too.

Not sure why we chose to take the kick rather than defer...even if we were trying to send some subtle love letter to the offense.

The 12 men penalty.....ugh.

That play where Diggs doubled back and lost 10 yards......ugh.

Was feeling like a shitty start.....then we got our act together.

We physically whipped them.

Remmers had a bad game.

Elf out blocking on the screen TD was awesome.



I was at US Bank for my first game. It was awesome.

Lars with a pretty good sum up.

Hill got torched against Adams but luckily Rogers overthrew him.

Great team effort, but we dominated about 3 quarters of that game. To have it come down to an onside/one possession game was disappointing.

Also disappointing was our run blocking. With Daniels out, we should have been more effective, though we were effective when it mattered. That 7 minute drive was vintage 2017 Vikes. Just effective enough running and picking up some key third downs. Shoulda got points on that drive.

But overall a win is a win. Let's keep it going.



Pretty impressive facility, right?

Glad you got to witness a win. Bonus for who it was against.


Everybody in the league, and everybody's fans know that our run blocking is not good, except for our coaching staff. Anything and short.......we run. The one time we actually went play fake, it worked.

We have to stop playing to our weakness, because of some crazy notion that it's tough football. So predictable.

2nd and short is like free money. We don't seem to want it. 2nd and short to us means we have two chances to get a yard.


It certainly is. The scale of it is stunning compared to the Dome. Building a strong tradition there, fits the team and region perfectly. Too many packer fans at the game. It was fun seeing them slink away early.

In complete agreement with the rest of the post. If we were challenging strength with strength, it be one thing. But in first preseason game we had trouble getting push on short down and distance. It has not improved and we stubbornly insist on the same strategy this far into the season. Frustrating.

On the second and short, I turned to my brother-in-law and said, "we should take a deep shot, but we'll run it to pick up the first down".

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 8828
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/27/2018 8:06:51 PM   
Dana Turner


Posts: 1658
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

A lot of really good points made here. OL is indeed a problem. Also, that was a good catch about our skill positions like Rudolph and Treadwell and how they hold us back from being a truly high octane offense w/ so many weapons. Think NO or the Rams. They simply overwhelm opponents because the offense is so stacked. For example, NO is quite possibly going to win it all this year, IMO. Between Brees, Kamara, and Thomas, they have assembled a lethal combination. It's pick your poison in covering them all efficiently play after play.

Rudolph needs to share some time w/ a better field-stretching TE. OJ Howard was really starting to come on before his injury. A guy like that would be awesome. Mayfield is starting to develop some chemistry w/ Njowku in Cleveland. The point is that our offense is lacking that second tier of being elite.

OL is a mess. Reiff has been hurt and not even playing that great when he's on the field. Remmers is underwhelming. Rashod Hill is just a backup. Nothing more. That leaves Elflien, who really is a key player to build around. Being injured for the first half of the season hurt, though. There are two trains of thought here. One is that their injuries prevented them from gaining chemistry during the regular season. It's just different from preseason games and training camp. They were decent last year (at least competent in run and pass blocking). Which leads me to the second thought. Perhaps Keenum rolling out and making so many big plays through broken plays and sandlot football made our O-line look better than they were. It gained them the advantage of being able to block people in space instead of being bull rushed at the line, requiring more physical play. Now that Cousins is the QB, we see a more traditional pocket QB style offense that relies way less in a QB using his feet to scramble and make plays on the run. Because of that, there is way more trench battle at the line that we are, quite frankly, losing. We just don't seem very physical, IMO.


Any thoughts on Brian O'neill?


Some good talk about the offensive line lately, no wonder, it's a unit that needs an influx of talent, but it's not a unit that is absent of talent. It looks like O'Neil is holding up pretty well given his strength issues. When we got him it was evident he needed a couple years of strength condition to get to NFL strength, that is also true about Elf, but he hasn't been healthy enough to really get after it in the weight room and that shows up on the field from time to time. Isidora was also a guy that needed to gain strength, but in the three years he's been here, he hasn't done it. He's the road grader type we have been talking about, but without the strength, his tough attitude only gets him a backup spot. We needed him to take interest, but as with all players in the NFL, if you don't have the heart, you won't reach maximum potential. That is what is so tough about picking guys in the draft, you can have all the measurable's you want, but you can't measure heart, guys like Diggs and AT would have been first rounders if there was a way to project heart.

I think we have three, NFL caliber, offensive line starters on this team, they are all out there playing now, one is a second year center and the other a first year Tackle. Rief is the other and the rest are backups. The jury is still out on whether Easton can come back and play effectively. So at a minimum, we need two starting caliber Guards. Draft one and buy one, pick one later in the fourth or fifth for depth and cross your fingers you get two solid guys out of the four (Easton coming back being the fourth).

This year, it is what it is. Scheme around it and go as far as you can, but understand we can only get s much out of these guys, they are probably doing the best they can. RS has tried to address this problem, it just hasn't worked out like he hoped. I bet he was like me when he drafted Isidora, give him a year or two and he will be a monster in there, it just didn't happen. He's nasty enough, just not strong enough, he had the chance to prove himself, just didn't do it. The NFL is full of guys that had chances, some made it some didn't, that's life in the NFL.
Post #: 8829
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/27/2018 10:43:16 PM   
marty


Posts: 9406
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
Lost in all the OL talk is the fact that Cousins can improve on making a more accurate throw, when he has a clean pocket, even if defenders are baring down and close.

Cousins also needs to get better at making a quick decision of making a move to the outside, when nothing is there, or if he feels it's unlikely he will get a nice throw in there with out deflection, and in a good place.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 8830
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/27/2018 11:39:14 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 589
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Sure seems like we could have shored up the TE position over the years with late round picks.

Now it's a need? Never should have been. Easiest position in the NFL to draft, except for us. We're looking for the next Kleinsasser or Rudolph. It's a plug and play position. They're almost like mosquitoes, they're everywhere.......except here.

Wait, bad analogy, there are a lot of mosquitoes here.

We tried.

Swung and missed with Hodges and early returns on Conklin aren't great.



hodges must have a lockerroom presence - i thought he played well in the preseason of '17...conklin ran a 4.80/40 and doesn't have the height or hands of rudolph...like any player, if we want a good one, we need to draft them early....

this offseason:

let these players go: sendejo, remmers
rework these contracts: griffen, rudolph
extend these players with modest deals - backloaded with nice signing bonus: harris, weatherly...maybe kearse and alexander.

extend richardson.

it would be great if we can trade barr, waynes and sendejo to a team that needs to reload on defense - can we trade barr if we own his franchise/transition rights?...perhaps we transition tag barr.

do we keep waynes and consider moving rhodes?...i love rhodes, but he seems like he's on the back end of his career


sign a solid guard in free agency, i.e. saffold or levitre or other
pick 1 - guard
pick 2 - lb/te
pick 3 - te/lb
pick 4 - ot
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


Agree with pretty much all of this but trading Rhodes. The injuries are too common but he is a top player when healthy.

Hughes and Hill will easily take the place of Waynes.

I think you franchise Barr and take less in a trade(down to a 3rd rounder, never would get a 1st, let alone two 1st)


I hate to say it but it might be Rhodes we have to get rid of and keep Wayne's. Trade Griffen as Weatherly can take his place....




we could offer an afc team that needs a complete defensive reload; griffen, sendejo, rhodes and barr --- all for a 2nd and 4th rounder....


Regardless of what happens with the Vikings this year, next year seems to be lining up perfectly for Spielman to create one of the best rosters in football. Sendejo, Remmers, Rudolph, Barr, Treadwell account for $35mil worth of cap space. Toss in the $4mil we get back for Shariff Floyd and that gets us around $40mil with very little drop in production thanks to existing depth on the team. Spielman should be able to sign 2 top tier guards, and a difference maker at TE, and find viable replacements for the rest of them. We could go into next season with an outstanding offensive line (when was the last time we could say that?), have excellent players at every skill position and still field an outstanding defense.


Has any team ever signed 2 top tier guards in an off season... hard to imagine the Vikings signing 2.
I'm all for it... but I'd temper my expectations... more likely a FA and a draft pick.
For @#$% sake let it be a decently high pick.
Post #: 8831
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 12:18:01 AM   
Dave Odle


Posts: 7305
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Garland, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

A lot of really good points made here. OL is indeed a problem. Also, that was a good catch about our skill positions like Rudolph and Treadwell and how they hold us back from being a truly high octane offense w/ so many weapons. Think NO or the Rams. They simply overwhelm opponents because the offense is so stacked. For example, NO is quite possibly going to win it all this year, IMO. Between Brees, Kamara, and Thomas, they have assembled a lethal combination. It's pick your poison in covering them all efficiently play after play.

Rudolph needs to share some time w/ a better field-stretching TE. OJ Howard was really starting to come on before his injury. A guy like that would be awesome. Mayfield is starting to develop some chemistry w/ Njowku in Cleveland. The point is that our offense is lacking that second tier of being elite.

OL is a mess. Reiff has been hurt and not even playing that great when he's on the field. Remmers is underwhelming. Rashod Hill is just a backup. Nothing more. That leaves Elflien, who really is a key player to build around. Being injured for the first half of the season hurt, though. There are two trains of thought here. One is that their injuries prevented them from gaining chemistry during the regular season. It's just different from preseason games and training camp. They were decent last year (at least competent in run and pass blocking). Which leads me to the second thought. Perhaps Keenum rolling out and making so many big plays through broken plays and sandlot football made our O-line look better than they were. It gained them the advantage of being able to block people in space instead of being bull rushed at the line, requiring more physical play. Now that Cousins is the QB, we see a more traditional pocket QB style offense that relies way less in a QB using his feet to scramble and make plays on the run. Because of that, there is way more trench battle at the line that we are, quite frankly, losing. We just don't seem very physical, IMO.


Any thoughts on Brian O'neill?


You're right, Todd. I forgot all about O' Neill. I think he makes a fine RT and maybe some potential to grow into a LT eventually. He looks to be a bargain where we got him in the draft. So Elf and O' Neill are keepers. Reiff has been spotty, but is still starting caliber. We just need to shake the injuries and get some Guards.

_____________________________

Could this be the year?
Post #: 8832
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 1:21:11 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 6756
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: girona, catalonia...in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Sure seems like we could have shored up the TE position over the years with late round picks.

Now it's a need? Never should have been. Easiest position in the NFL to draft, except for us. We're looking for the next Kleinsasser or Rudolph. It's a plug and play position. They're almost like mosquitoes, they're everywhere.......except here.

Wait, bad analogy, there are a lot of mosquitoes here.

We tried.

Swung and missed with Hodges and early returns on Conklin aren't great.



hodges must have a lockerroom presence - i thought he played well in the preseason of '17...conklin ran a 4.80/40 and doesn't have the height or hands of rudolph...like any player, if we want a good one, we need to draft them early....

this offseason:

let these players go: sendejo, remmers
rework these contracts: griffen, rudolph
extend these players with modest deals - backloaded with nice signing bonus: harris, weatherly...maybe kearse and alexander.

extend richardson.

it would be great if we can trade barr, waynes and sendejo to a team that needs to reload on defense - can we trade barr if we own his franchise/transition rights?...perhaps we transition tag barr.

do we keep waynes and consider moving rhodes?...i love rhodes, but he seems like he's on the back end of his career


sign a solid guard in free agency, i.e. saffold or levitre or other
pick 1 - guard
pick 2 - lb/te
pick 3 - te/lb
pick 4 - ot
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


Agree with pretty much all of this but trading Rhodes. The injuries are too common but he is a top player when healthy.

Hughes and Hill will easily take the place of Waynes.

I think you franchise Barr and take less in a trade(down to a 3rd rounder, never would get a 1st, let alone two 1st)


I hate to say it but it might be Rhodes we have to get rid of and keep Wayne's. Trade Griffen as Weatherly can take his place....




we could offer an afc team that needs a complete defensive reload; griffen, sendejo, rhodes and barr --- all for a 2nd and 4th rounder....


Regardless of what happens with the Vikings this year, next year seems to be lining up perfectly for Spielman to create one of the best rosters in football. Sendejo, Remmers, Rudolph, Barr, Treadwell account for $35mil worth of cap space. Toss in the $4mil we get back for Shariff Floyd and that gets us around $40mil with very little drop in production thanks to existing depth on the team. Spielman should be able to sign 2 top tier guards, and a difference maker at TE, and find viable replacements for the rest of them. We could go into next season with an outstanding offensive line (when was the last time we could say that?), have excellent players at every skill position and still field an outstanding defense.


Has any team ever signed 2 top tier guards in an off season... hard to imagine the Vikings signing 2.
I'm all for it... but I'd temper my expectations... more likely a FA and a draft pick.
For @#$% sake let it be a decently high pick.

.
.
these are the top guards that spotrac has as upcoming free agents in 2019...i graded them on several sites and the numbers to the far right are how they graded overall amongst all guards in the nfl - the players with a 'no' to the far right of their names i don't think we should consider...there should be others after cap casualties and other cuts early next year....

we could go for a top fa like saffold or just a much better than we've already got fa like levitre - and then also try to sign another at tje foster of a little better level....

top guards are making left tackle money...there are nine that are making $10m/yr or over....

does oakland have anyone they might want to trade?...they've got kelechi osemele and gabe jackson...we could send them barr, sendejo, waynes/rhodes and treadwell for a top guard and a 3rd rounder...make them take treadwell - sorry, that's just part of the deal....


mike iupati…ari…no
andy levitre…atl…16
rodger saffold…la…9
james carpenter…jets…no
ramón foster…pit…29
ben garland…atl…no
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 11/28/2018 1:29:22 AM >


_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 8833
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 9:39:10 AM   
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 372
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Sure seems like we could have shored up the TE position over the years with late round picks.

Now it's a need? Never should have been. Easiest position in the NFL to draft, except for us. We're looking for the next Kleinsasser or Rudolph. It's a plug and play position. They're almost like mosquitoes, they're everywhere.......except here.

Wait, bad analogy, there are a lot of mosquitoes here.

We tried.

Swung and missed with Hodges and early returns on Conklin aren't great.



hodges must have a lockerroom presence - i thought he played well in the preseason of '17...conklin ran a 4.80/40 and doesn't have the height or hands of rudolph...like any player, if we want a good one, we need to draft them early....

this offseason:

let these players go: sendejo, remmers
rework these contracts: griffen, rudolph
extend these players with modest deals - backloaded with nice signing bonus: harris, weatherly...maybe kearse and alexander.

extend richardson.

it would be great if we can trade barr, waynes and sendejo to a team that needs to reload on defense - can we trade barr if we own his franchise/transition rights?...perhaps we transition tag barr.

do we keep waynes and consider moving rhodes?...i love rhodes, but he seems like he's on the back end of his career


sign a solid guard in free agency, i.e. saffold or levitre or other
pick 1 - guard
pick 2 - lb/te
pick 3 - te/lb
pick 4 - ot
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


Agree with pretty much all of this but trading Rhodes. The injuries are too common but he is a top player when healthy.

Hughes and Hill will easily take the place of Waynes.

I think you franchise Barr and take less in a trade(down to a 3rd rounder, never would get a 1st, let alone two 1st)


I hate to say it but it might be Rhodes we have to get rid of and keep Wayne's. Trade Griffen as Weatherly can take his place....




we could offer an afc team that needs a complete defensive reload; griffen, sendejo, rhodes and barr --- all for a 2nd and 4th rounder....


Regardless of what happens with the Vikings this year, next year seems to be lining up perfectly for Spielman to create one of the best rosters in football. Sendejo, Remmers, Rudolph, Barr, Treadwell account for $35mil worth of cap space. Toss in the $4mil we get back for Shariff Floyd and that gets us around $40mil with very little drop in production thanks to existing depth on the team. Spielman should be able to sign 2 top tier guards, and a difference maker at TE, and find viable replacements for the rest of them. We could go into next season with an outstanding offensive line (when was the last time we could say that?), have excellent players at every skill position and still field an outstanding defense.


Has any team ever signed 2 top tier guards in an off season... hard to imagine the Vikings signing 2.
I'm all for it... but I'd temper my expectations... more likely a FA and a draft pick.
For @#$% sake let it be a decently high pick.

.
.
these are the top guards that spotrac has as upcoming free agents in 2019...i graded them on several sites and the numbers to the far right are how they graded overall amongst all guards in the nfl - the players with a 'no' to the far right of their names i don't think we should consider...there should be others after cap casualties and other cuts early next year....

we could go for a top fa like saffold or just a much better than we've already got fa like levitre - and then also try to sign another at tje foster of a little better level....

top guards are making left tackle money...there are nine that are making $10m/yr or over....

does oakland have anyone they might want to trade?...they've got kelechi osemele and gabe jackson...we could send them barr, sendejo, waynes/rhodes and treadwell for a top guard and a 3rd rounder...make them take treadwell - sorry, that's just part of the deal....


mike iupati…ari…no
andy levitre…atl…16
rodger saffold…la…9
james carpenter…jets…no
ramón foster…pit…29
ben garland…atl…no
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


This is the perfect time for RS to be bold and sign 2 top tier Guards. Even if we have to pay them $10 mil a piece we can do it completely pain free for 2019:

Cut:
Sendejo - $5.5
Remmers - $6.3
Treadwell - $3 mil
Rudolph - 7.6mil (more likely re-work the deal for say $3.5mil)
+ Floyd - $4 mil

That's $20 mil for 2 top Guards if we keep Rudolph on a reworked deal. Then we draft an OT in the first or 2nd round so we can replace Reiff the following year. There is no reason the Vikings can't have a starting offensive lineup of:

Reiff - Saffold - Elf - Levitre - O'Neill

Do ti Spielman!

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...
Post #: 8834
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 10:12:20 AM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 3869
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Sure seems like we could have shored up the TE position over the years with late round picks.

Now it's a need? Never should have been. Easiest position in the NFL to draft, except for us. We're looking for the next Kleinsasser or Rudolph. It's a plug and play position. They're almost like mosquitoes, they're everywhere.......except here.

Wait, bad analogy, there are a lot of mosquitoes here.

We tried.

Swung and missed with Hodges and early returns on Conklin aren't great.



hodges must have a lockerroom presence - i thought he played well in the preseason of '17...conklin ran a 4.80/40 and doesn't have the height or hands of rudolph...like any player, if we want a good one, we need to draft them early....

this offseason:

let these players go: sendejo, remmers
rework these contracts: griffen, rudolph
extend these players with modest deals - backloaded with nice signing bonus: harris, weatherly...maybe kearse and alexander.

extend richardson.

it would be great if we can trade barr, waynes and sendejo to a team that needs to reload on defense - can we trade barr if we own his franchise/transition rights?...perhaps we transition tag barr.

do we keep waynes and consider moving rhodes?...i love rhodes, but he seems like he's on the back end of his career


sign a solid guard in free agency, i.e. saffold or levitre or other
pick 1 - guard
pick 2 - lb/te
pick 3 - te/lb
pick 4 - ot
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


Agree with pretty much all of this but trading Rhodes. The injuries are too common but he is a top player when healthy.

Hughes and Hill will easily take the place of Waynes.

I think you franchise Barr and take less in a trade(down to a 3rd rounder, never would get a 1st, let alone two 1st)


I hate to say it but it might be Rhodes we have to get rid of and keep Wayne's. Trade Griffen as Weatherly can take his place....




we could offer an afc team that needs a complete defensive reload; griffen, sendejo, rhodes and barr --- all for a 2nd and 4th rounder....


Regardless of what happens with the Vikings this year, next year seems to be lining up perfectly for Spielman to create one of the best rosters in football. Sendejo, Remmers, Rudolph, Barr, Treadwell account for $35mil worth of cap space. Toss in the $4mil we get back for Shariff Floyd and that gets us around $40mil with very little drop in production thanks to existing depth on the team. Spielman should be able to sign 2 top tier guards, and a difference maker at TE, and find viable replacements for the rest of them. We could go into next season with an outstanding offensive line (when was the last time we could say that?), have excellent players at every skill position and still field an outstanding defense.


Has any team ever signed 2 top tier guards in an off season... hard to imagine the Vikings signing 2.
I'm all for it... but I'd temper my expectations... more likely a FA and a draft pick.
For @#$% sake let it be a decently high pick.

.
.
these are the top guards that spotrac has as upcoming free agents in 2019...i graded them on several sites and the numbers to the far right are how they graded overall amongst all guards in the nfl - the players with a 'no' to the far right of their names i don't think we should consider...there should be others after cap casualties and other cuts early next year....

we could go for a top fa like saffold or just a much better than we've already got fa like levitre - and then also try to sign another at tje foster of a little better level....

top guards are making left tackle money...there are nine that are making $10m/yr or over....

does oakland have anyone they might want to trade?...they've got kelechi osemele and gabe jackson...we could send them barr, sendejo, waynes/rhodes and treadwell for a top guard and a 3rd rounder...make them take treadwell - sorry, that's just part of the deal....


mike iupati…ari…no
andy levitre…atl…16
rodger saffold…la…9
james carpenter…jets…no
ramón foster…pit…29
ben garland…atl…no
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


This is the perfect time for RS to be bold and sign 2 top tier Guards. Even if we have to pay them $10 mil a piece we can do it completely pain free for 2019:

Cut:
Sendejo - $5.5
Remmers - $6.3
Treadwell - $3 mil
Rudolph - 7.6mil (more likely re-work the deal for say $3.5mil)
+ Floyd - $4 mil

That's $20 mil for 2 top Guards if we keep Rudolph on a reworked deal. Then we draft an OT in the first or 2nd round so we can replace Reiff the following year. There is no reason the Vikings can't have a starting offensive lineup of:

Reiff - Saffold - Elf - Levitre - O'Neill

Do ti Spielman!

Well, there is the obstacle of the players wanting to sign here. All things being equal, why would Saffold leave the Rams to come here? Maybe things don't have to be equal; he would be in the driver's seat.
Post #: 8835
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 10:45:37 AM   
SoMnFan


Posts: 84183
Status: offline
Zimmers job considered to be in the "cool seat" mode currently



Minnesota Vikings (6-4-1)

Coach: Mike Zimmer (45-29-1 over five seasons)

The Vikings have gone through their fair share of ups and downs this season, but Zimmer's job won't be on the line, barring a major collapse over the next five games. The Vikings had to overcome the growing pains that come with a new offensive system and new quarterback, plus struggles on defense, and Zimmer has helped turn around the defensive issues. Vikings ownership voiced a vote of confidence in Zimmer months ago. Given the expectations for this franchise in years to come, that shouldn't change. "We, quite frankly, as owners have grown in this process to realize that we need to get the best people here, people like Coach Zimmer and [general manager] Rick Spielman, and to have the confidence in them that they're going to get us to where we need to be," Minnesota co-owner Mark Wilf told ESPN in January. -- Courtney Cronin
Post #: 8836
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 11:27:16 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 6756
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: girona, catalonia...in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

we could offer an afc team that needs a complete defensive reload; griffen, sendejo, rhodes and barr --- all for a 2nd and 4th rounder....


This post makes me want to you.



Thank you....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 8837
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 11:30:12 AM  1 votes
ebergste

 

Posts: 588
Joined: 8/25/2007
Status: offline
So I just rewatched the Green Bay game on the condensed version. I love doing this because it better simulates what the coaches are going through. When you have the "TV" speed of the game it feels like a long time between plays but when you are calling the shots that time is much shorter considering all that has to be accounted for. Overall I think our play calling is very good, nice variety of pass and run, and good and creative designs for plays. I also think Cousins is very underrated here on this site. The amount of times he deals with a shrinking pocket and makes a good decision are impressive. That shrinking pocket is something every QB deals with but it rattles some because as it shrinks the amount of time you have if someone breaks through decreases as well.

The area that we are the weakest in, and which hampers our offense IMHO, is gap scheme run plays. When we have success of the ground we are zone running. This allows our lineman to get pushed around a bit but as long as they are getting horizontal movement on the DL a gap will open up the RB has a shot. When we gap scheme and need vertical push we simply don't get it most of the time. Knowing this, I know shocking that GB has some coaches who pay attention as well, GB was running a 5 front most of the game. This eliminated many of the lanes that are created by horizontal movement and stifled our running game even further. There are two good ways to beat a 5 front focused on internal gaps. The best is hit the edges which the Vikings did. RB screens and swing passes, Jet sweet runs etc. The other is to overpower at the point of attack and gap run on internal runs which the Vikings can't really do very well. The good thing is the 5 front also limited GB on their pass defense options.

By contrast the Vikings run a four front almost exclusively. They also gap attack with the DL so they create vertical seams as they rush. GB seemed to run a lot of gap runs and when they picked the right gap they were pretty successful. Zimmer's D seems to be willing to concede those occasional 6-8 yard runs, which frustrate the crap out of me personally, but fit his scheme. He trusts his CB's and safeties tackling to prevent the big gains and seems to like what it allows him to do in coverage enough to let the gap run hurt them a bit. You'll notice the Vikings are pretty strong against RB swing passes and WR screens because they have one less guy devoted to the middle so can cover the edges better.

None of this is 100% of the time but just general observations.
Post #: 8838
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 11:30:58 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 6756
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: girona, catalonia...in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Sure seems like we could have shored up the TE position over the years with late round picks.

Now it's a need? Never should have been. Easiest position in the NFL to draft, except for us. We're looking for the next Kleinsasser or Rudolph. It's a plug and play position. They're almost like mosquitoes, they're everywhere.......except here.

Wait, bad analogy, there are a lot of mosquitoes here.

We tried.

Swung and missed with Hodges and early returns on Conklin aren't great.



hodges must have a lockerroom presence - i thought he played well in the preseason of '17...conklin ran a 4.80/40 and doesn't have the height or hands of rudolph...like any player, if we want a good one, we need to draft them early....

this offseason:

let these players go: sendejo, remmers
rework these contracts: griffen, rudolph
extend these players with modest deals - backloaded with nice signing bonus: harris, weatherly...maybe kearse and alexander.

extend richardson.

it would be great if we can trade barr, waynes and sendejo to a team that needs to reload on defense - can we trade barr if we own his franchise/transition rights?...perhaps we transition tag barr.

do we keep waynes and consider moving rhodes?...i love rhodes, but he seems like he's on the back end of his career


sign a solid guard in free agency, i.e. saffold or levitre or other
pick 1 - guard
pick 2 - lb/te
pick 3 - te/lb
pick 4 - ot
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


Agree with pretty much all of this but trading Rhodes. The injuries are too common but he is a top player when healthy.

Hughes and Hill will easily take the place of Waynes.

I think you franchise Barr and take less in a trade(down to a 3rd rounder, never would get a 1st, let alone two 1st)


I hate to say it but it might be Rhodes we have to get rid of and keep Wayne's. Trade Griffen as Weatherly can take his place....




we could offer an afc team that needs a complete defensive reload; griffen, sendejo, rhodes and barr --- all for a 2nd and 4th rounder....


Regardless of what happens with the Vikings this year, next year seems to be lining up perfectly for Spielman to create one of the best rosters in football. Sendejo, Remmers, Rudolph, Barr, Treadwell account for $35mil worth of cap space. Toss in the $4mil we get back for Shariff Floyd and that gets us around $40mil with very little drop in production thanks to existing depth on the team. Spielman should be able to sign 2 top tier guards, and a difference maker at TE, and find viable replacements for the rest of them. We could go into next season with an outstanding offensive line (when was the last time we could say that?), have excellent players at every skill position and still field an outstanding defense.


Has any team ever signed 2 top tier guards in an off season... hard to imagine the Vikings signing 2.
I'm all for it... but I'd temper my expectations... more likely a FA and a draft pick.
For @#$% sake let it be a decently high pick.

.
.
these are the top guards that spotrac has as upcoming free agents in 2019...i graded them on several sites and the numbers to the far right are how they graded overall amongst all guards in the nfl - the players with a 'no' to the far right of their names i don't think we should consider...there should be others after cap casualties and other cuts early next year....

we could go for a top fa like saffold or just a much better than we've already got fa like levitre - and then also try to sign another at tje foster of a little better level....

top guards are making left tackle money...there are nine that are making $10m/yr or over....

does oakland have anyone they might want to trade?...they've got kelechi osemele and gabe jackson...we could send them barr, sendejo, waynes/rhodes and treadwell for a top guard and a 3rd rounder...make them take treadwell - sorry, that's just part of the deal....


mike iupati…ari…no
andy levitre…atl…16
rodger saffold…la…9
james carpenter…jets…no
ramón foster…pit…29
ben garland…atl…no
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


This is the perfect time for RS to be bold and sign 2 top tier Guards. Even if we have to pay them $10 mil a piece we can do it completely pain free for 2019:

Cut:
Sendejo - $5.5
Remmers - $6.3
Treadwell - $3 mil
Rudolph - 7.6mil (more likely re-work the deal for say $3.5mil)
+ Floyd - $4 mil

That's $20 mil for 2 top Guards if we keep Rudolph on a reworked deal. Then we draft an OT in the first or 2nd round so we can replace Reiff the following year. There is no reason the Vikings can't have a starting offensive lineup of:

Reiff - Saffold - Elf - Levitre - O'Neill

Do ti Spielman!

Well, there is the obstacle of the players wanting to sign here. All things being equal, why would Saffold leave the Rams to come here? Maybe things don't have to be equal; he would be in the driver's seat.




I don’t think that’s a problem anymore...we have the absolute best facilities in the league...it’s like the best country club in the world in Eagan....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 8839
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 12:54:34 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 3869
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
Rams are better, coach is better, facility will soon be/ is as good or better, weather is better.... he very well might want to come to the Vikings--- they're a great choice, too. But many players would understandably prefer the Rams. Money could be a factor.
Post #: 8840
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 1:02:53 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 24681
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Rams are better, coach is better, facility will soon be/ is as good or better, weather is better.... he very well might want to come to the Vikings--- they're a great choice, too. But many players would understandably prefer the Rams. Money could be a factor.


And the air quality...
Post #: 8841
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 1:17:25 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 3869
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Rams are better, coach is better, facility will soon be/ is as good or better, weather is better.... he very well might want to come to the Vikings--- they're a great choice, too. But many players would understandably prefer the Rams. Money could be a factor.


And the air quality...

Air quality is good where they are. They've had recent minor issues with mass shootings and raging wildfire, but those can happen anywhere.....
Post #: 8842
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 1:23:51 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 6756
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: girona, catalonia...in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Rams are better, coach is better, facility will soon be/ is as good or better, weather is better.... he very well might want to come to the Vikings--- they're a great choice, too. But many players would understandably prefer the Rams. Money could be a factor.


And the air quality...



the rams' permanent headquarters and training facility has yet to be located - it's not going to be at the new stadium...right now they're at a temporary facility at the california lutheran university in thousand oaks...it's my understanding that they have yet to commit to a permanent location...they're probably five 3-5 years from moving into a facility that can match the one we've got in eagan....

and la traffic - i lived there for 45 years and absolutely hate going back....

ps - i believe several students from the cal lutheran university were shot at the dance club in thousand oaks a month back....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 8843
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 1:48:52 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 6756
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: girona, catalonia...in exile
Status: offline
.
.
Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Not practicing for the Vikings today: Xavier Rhodes (hamstring) Stefon Diggs (undisclosed) David Morgan (knee) Chad Beebe (hamstring). Mike Zimmer says good chance Rhodes will play Sunday.

Eric Thompson@eric_j_thompson
#Vikings have allowed touchdowns on only 16 of 37 red zone trips by their opponents. The 43.2% rate is best in the league.

Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Anthony Harris will remain the Vikings' starting safety with Andrew Sendejo out, Mike ZImmer said. Did Sendejo have a setback after returning to practice the Friday before the bye week? "Obviously," Zimmer said.

NFL Update@MySportsUpdate
Bill Belichick, asked about #Vikings safety Harrison Smith: “He does a great job with pre-snap disguise. He’s up there with Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu. He's a disruptive player before the ball is snapped.”

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Mike Zimmer on Cordarrelle Patterson: "Quite honestly, they’re using him way better than we did. Cordarrelle’s a great athlete, a very, very strong runner... They use him in a number of different ways... It’s good to see for him. I wish we would have used him a little bit better"

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
#Vikings Mike Zimmer on Bill Belichick calling him one of best coaches in NFL: "Yeah, you know, he’s the best coach ever. I think it’s a compliment that he thinks that of me. Hopefully, he’s not just saying it because we play them this week.''

Nick Olson@NicholasJOlson
Offensive tackles with at least 300 pass blocking snaps this year and zero sacks allowed:

• Tyron Smith
• Terron Armstead
• Brian O'Neill

That's the whole list.

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 8844
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 2:27:49 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 12459
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ebergste

So I just rewatched the Green Bay game on the condensed version. I love doing this because it better simulates what the coaches are going through. When you have the "TV" speed of the game it feels like a long time between plays but when you are calling the shots that time is much shorter considering all that has to be accounted for. Overall I think our play calling is very good, nice variety of pass and run, and good and creative designs for plays. I also think Cousins is very underrated here on this site. The amount of times he deals with a shrinking pocket and makes a good decision are impressive. That shrinking pocket is something every QB deals with but it rattles some because as it shrinks the amount of time you have if someone breaks through decreases as well.

The area that we are the weakest in, and which hampers our offense IMHO, is gap scheme run plays. When we have success of the ground we are zone running. This allows our lineman to get pushed around a bit but as long as they are getting horizontal movement on the DL a gap will open up the RB has a shot. When we gap scheme and need vertical push we simply don't get it most of the time. Knowing this, I know shocking that GB has some coaches who pay attention as well, GB was running a 5 front most of the game. This eliminated many of the lanes that are created by horizontal movement and stifled our running game even further. There are two good ways to beat a 5 front focused on internal gaps. The best is hit the edges which the Vikings did. RB screens and swing passes, Jet sweet runs etc. The other is to overpower at the point of attack and gap run on internal runs which the Vikings can't really do very well. The good thing is the 5 front also limited GB on their pass defense options.

By contrast the Vikings run a four front almost exclusively. They also gap attack with the DL so they create vertical seams as they rush. GB seemed to run a lot of gap runs and when they picked the right gap they were pretty successful. Zimmer's D seems to be willing to concede those occasional 6-8 yard runs, which frustrate the crap out of me personally, but fit his scheme. He trusts his CB's and safeties tackling to prevent the big gains and seems to like what it allows him to do in coverage enough to let the gap run hurt them a bit. You'll notice the Vikings are pretty strong against RB swing passes and WR screens because they have one less guy devoted to the middle so can cover the edges better.

None of this is 100% of the time but just general observations.


This is just so cool! Please post more often with your analysis. Don't be a stranger.

_____________________________

I do think it is wonderful that football can bring people together from different persuasions. We need more of that and less of what divides us.
Post #: 8845
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 2:35:55 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 12459
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
It seems that Arif has written a piece on theathletic.com on the Vikings defense saying that it is second in the league in sacks per opponents drop backs. It's a subscriber based website and I am too cheap to pay for it. Maybe I shouldn't be so cheap.

_____________________________

I do think it is wonderful that football can bring people together from different persuasions. We need more of that and less of what divides us.
Post #: 8846
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 4:15:09 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 24681
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Rams are better, coach is better, facility will soon be/ is as good or better, weather is better.... he very well might want to come to the Vikings--- they're a great choice, too. But many players would understandably prefer the Rams. Money could be a factor.


And the air quality...

Air quality is good where they are. They've had recent minor issues with mass shootings and raging wildfire, but those can happen anywhere.....


Yeah, I had some of those in my backyard just last week!
Post #: 8847
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 5:13:42 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 3869
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Rams are better, coach is better, facility will soon be/ is as good or better, weather is better.... he very well might want to come to the Vikings--- they're a great choice, too. But many players would understandably prefer the Rams. Money could be a factor.


And the air quality...



the rams' permanent headquarters and training facility has yet to be located - it's not going to be at the new stadium...right now they're at a temporary facility at the california lutheran university in thousand oaks...it's my understanding that they have yet to commit to a permanent location...they're probably five 3-5 years from moving into a facility that can match the one we've got in eagan....

and la traffic - i lived there for 45 years and absolutely hate going back....

ps - i believe several students from the cal lutheran university were shot at the dance club in thousand oaks a month back....

I get what you're saying, and I absolutely think Saffold should be a top target of ours, but there are usually a lot more rich young men who would choose to be out here than in Minnesota. There are those who may prefer Minnesota itself, the organization, the contract we may offer, the football situation, etc.

It is weird that the hugely expensive facility they built is temporary; I didn't understand that until your post.
Post #: 8848
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 5:45:30 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 13987
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline


ha ha! This is too freekin' funny. If you have Twitter click on the link below.

But let me say I'm sure you've heard me say a hundred times like a broken record I try not to listen to games with volume. That was the case with last Sun nights game so I didn't hear what Zimmer was referring to when I thought he was being over dramatic kind of hammering the "TV doctors."

Well shit! Freekin' Rhodes goes down like we've lost him for two years for sure, what the hell are they supposed to say?

Enjoy: https://twitter.com/SkolMemes/status/1067877801301352468
Post #: 8849
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 5:51:06 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 589
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ebergste

So I just rewatched the Green Bay game on the condensed version. I love doing this because it better simulates what the coaches are going through. When you have the "TV" speed of the game it feels like a long time between plays but when you are calling the shots that time is much shorter considering all that has to be accounted for. Overall I think our play calling is very good, nice variety of pass and run, and good and creative designs for plays. I also think Cousins is very underrated here on this site. The amount of times he deals with a shrinking pocket and makes a good decision are impressive. That shrinking pocket is something every QB deals with but it rattles some because as it shrinks the amount of time you have if someone breaks through decreases as well.

The area that we are the weakest in, and which hampers our offense IMHO, is gap scheme run plays. When we have success of the ground we are zone running. This allows our lineman to get pushed around a bit but as long as they are getting horizontal movement on the DL a gap will open up the RB has a shot. When we gap scheme and need vertical push we simply don't get it most of the time. Knowing this, I know shocking that GB has some coaches who pay attention as well, GB was running a 5 front most of the game. This eliminated many of the lanes that are created by horizontal movement and stifled our running game even further. There are two good ways to beat a 5 front focused on internal gaps. The best is hit the edges which the Vikings did. RB screens and swing passes, Jet sweet runs etc. The other is to overpower at the point of attack and gap run on internal runs which the Vikings can't really do very well. The good thing is the 5 front also limited GB on their pass defense options.

By contrast the Vikings run a four front almost exclusively. They also gap attack with the DL so they create vertical seams as they rush. GB seemed to run a lot of gap runs and when they picked the right gap they were pretty successful. Zimmer's D seems to be willing to concede those occasional 6-8 yard runs, which frustrate the crap out of me personally, but fit his scheme. He trusts his CB's and safeties tackling to prevent the big gains and seems to like what it allows him to do in coverage enough to let the gap run hurt them a bit. You'll notice the Vikings are pretty strong against RB swing passes and WR screens because they have one less guy devoted to the middle so can cover the edges better.

None of this is 100% of the time but just general observations.


Great post!
From someone who hasn't been able to watch full game yet (I love condensed version as well) this is some great insight.
Post #: 8850
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