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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 6:28:38 PM   
Todd M

 

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Nice to see both our WR weapons hobbling around so soon after the bye. Man it can never come easy.

And Diggs doesn't get hit that much but can't get through an NFL season without multiple things bringing him down. It's very frustrating.

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Post #: 8851
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 6:41:57 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16028
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Gotta love a win at home vs. the Packers! Rudolph showed up and even got some yards after the catch. Thielen and Diggs are awesome. Defense is very good.

Didn't care for the preparedness in general of the team. 12 men not in the huddle but lined up on the field?!?!?!?! Are you serious? Get Treadwell off the field. Guaranteed money or not he needs to be cut just to open up a roster spot. Shame on whoever decides to keep putting him out there. Offensive line is terrible but there's nothing we can do about that until the offseason. Just PLEASE don't draft CB, CB, CB, P, K, CB, project-type OL, and long-snapper. Draft OL!

Special teams remains an unholy dumpster fire careening down a hill heading for a cliff that's also on fire.


The oline played one of its best games....we don't need to need to draft 3 lineman...1 in the first 2 rounds.


You must be watching a different team than everyone else Phil. Have you seen an eye doctor in the past five years?


Do you not get it? Top lines take years of investments....You think it can be fixed in a year? You draft an elflein and O'Neil every year and keep adding pieces. Was the defense drafted in one year?


Lines do NOT have to be built one player per year...

I'd imagine most top lines are not built that way.


They are talking about investing 3 top picks on the line....I am saying one like O'Neal (2nd) or at worst a 3rd like Elflein. There are good pieces that you add to....


That means you have to nail EVERY pick. You have no margin for error.


They have needs other than oline....LB and TE are 2. Never said it wasn't a need...there are others.


But its a much bigger need than you've ever been willing to acknowledge. You've said more than once that you consider last year's line to be "above-average".


I wish I could cherry pick your quotes---Look again. When healthy the first 6-8 games they were above average in 2017...then Easton season ending injury, Remmers concussion, and Elflein multiple injuries.

I saw an oline that played its best game of the year against GB....when they needed to run in the 4th quarter they did. They have to find a road grater at guard and figure out LG. O'Neil, Reiff, and Elflein are keepers and you find a dominant guard. Remmers can fill in at the other guard and be a swing tackle.

2018....Elflein out first couple of games due to offseason surguries, another Easton injury, Sporano death...
Many forget about the Sporano issue in all this...not sure what the new Oline coach has for a philosophy but they are improving.



No, Remmers cannot "fill in at the other guard". He couldn't then, he can't now, and he can't in the future.
Post #: 8852
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 6:58:06 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16028
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Lost in all the OL talk is the fact that Cousins can improve on making a more accurate throw, when he has a clean pocket, even if defenders are baring down and close.

Cousins also needs to get better at making a quick decision of making a move to the outside, when nothing is there, or if he feels it's unlikely he will get a nice throw in there with out deflection, and in a good place.



Lost in all the talk is Erin Rodgers is a cool 0-35 when trailing by more than one point in the 4th quarter against teams with winning records.
Post #: 8853
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 7:52:00 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 13830
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Lock 10
Status: online
Post #: 8854
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 8:00:41 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 13830
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Lock 10
Status: online
Star Tribune Sports @StribSports
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Kirk Cousins was in seventh grade when Tom Brady won his first Super Bowl. http://strib.mn/2P5NA7f #Vikings


Never gave this any thought or had reason to do the math, but, Wow!
Post #: 8855
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 8:10:35 PM   
Pager


Posts: 8061
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Not practicing for the Vikings today: Xavier Rhodes (hamstring) Stefon Diggs (undisclosed) David Morgan (knee) Chad Beebe (hamstring). Mike Zimmer says good chance Rhodes will play Sunday.

Eric Thompson@eric_j_thompson
#Vikings have allowed touchdowns on only 16 of 37 red zone trips by their opponents. The 43.2% rate is best in the league.

Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Anthony Harris will remain the Vikings' starting safety with Andrew Sendejo out, Mike ZImmer said. Did Sendejo have a setback after returning to practice the Friday before the bye week? "Obviously," Zimmer said.

NFL Update@MySportsUpdate
Bill Belichick, asked about #Vikings safety Harrison Smith: “He does a great job with pre-snap disguise. He’s up there with Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu. He's a disruptive player before the ball is snapped.”

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Mike Zimmer on Cordarrelle Patterson: "Quite honestly, they’re using him way better than we did. Cordarrelle’s a great athlete, a very, very strong runner... They use him in a number of different ways... It’s good to see for him. I wish we would have used him a little bit better"

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
#Vikings Mike Zimmer on Bill Belichick calling him one of best coaches in NFL: "Yeah, you know, he’s the best coach ever. I think it’s a compliment that he thinks that of me. Hopefully, he’s not just saying it because we play them this week.''

Nick Olson@NicholasJOlson
Offensive tackles with at least 300 pass blocking snaps this year and zero sacks allowed:

• Tyron Smith
• Terron Armstead
• Brian O'Neill

That's the whole list.



Great stuff. Thanks for the effort to put it all in one post!

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Post #: 8856
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 8:28:56 PM   
Pager


Posts: 8061
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ebergste

So I just rewatched the Green Bay game on the condensed version. I love doing this because it better simulates what the coaches are going through. When you have the "TV" speed of the game it feels like a long time between plays but when you are calling the shots that time is much shorter considering all that has to be accounted for. Overall I think our play calling is very good, nice variety of pass and run, and good and creative designs for plays. I also think Cousins is very underrated here on this site. The amount of times he deals with a shrinking pocket and makes a good decision are impressive. That shrinking pocket is something every QB deals with but it rattles some because as it shrinks the amount of time you have if someone breaks through decreases as well.

The area that we are the weakest in, and which hampers our offense IMHO, is gap scheme run plays. When we have success of the ground we are zone running. This allows our lineman to get pushed around a bit but as long as they are getting horizontal movement on the DL a gap will open up the RB has a shot. When we gap scheme and need vertical push we simply don't get it most of the time. Knowing this, I know shocking that GB has some coaches who pay attention as well, GB was running a 5 front most of the game. This eliminated many of the lanes that are created by horizontal movement and stifled our running game even further. There are two good ways to beat a 5 front focused on internal gaps. The best is hit the edges which the Vikings did. RB screens and swing passes, Jet sweet runs etc. The other is to overpower at the point of attack and gap run on internal runs which the Vikings can't really do very well. The good thing is the 5 front also limited GB on their pass defense options.

By contrast the Vikings run a four front almost exclusively. They also gap attack with the DL so they create vertical seams as they rush. GB seemed to run a lot of gap runs and when they picked the right gap they were pretty successful. Zimmer's D seems to be willing to concede those occasional 6-8 yard runs, which frustrate the crap out of me personally, but fit his scheme. He trusts his CB's and safeties tackling to prevent the big gains and seems to like what it allows him to do in coverage enough to let the gap run hurt them a bit. You'll notice the Vikings are pretty strong against RB swing passes and WR screens because they have one less guy devoted to the middle so can cover the edges better.

None of this is 100% of the time but just general observations.


This is just so cool! Please post more often with your analysis. Don't be a stranger.



Agreed. I always like to be around someone smarter than myself Post gave insight into the trouble we've have had running on short down and distance.

One favor to ask though. Can you call Zim and Flip and get them to change their GD approach??

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 8857
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2018 10:21:20 PM   
ebergste

 

Posts: 588
Joined: 8/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ebergste

So I just rewatched the Green Bay game on the condensed version. I love doing this because it better simulates what the coaches are going through. When you have the "TV" speed of the game it feels like a long time between plays but when you are calling the shots that time is much shorter considering all that has to be accounted for. Overall I think our play calling is very good, nice variety of pass and run, and good and creative designs for plays. I also think Cousins is very underrated here on this site. The amount of times he deals with a shrinking pocket and makes a good decision are impressive. That shrinking pocket is something every QB deals with but it rattles some because as it shrinks the amount of time you have if someone breaks through decreases as well.

The area that we are the weakest in, and which hampers our offense IMHO, is gap scheme run plays. When we have success of the ground we are zone running. This allows our lineman to get pushed around a bit but as long as they are getting horizontal movement on the DL a gap will open up the RB has a shot. When we gap scheme and need vertical push we simply don't get it most of the time. Knowing this, I know shocking that GB has some coaches who pay attention as well, GB was running a 5 front most of the game. This eliminated many of the lanes that are created by horizontal movement and stifled our running game even further. There are two good ways to beat a 5 front focused on internal gaps. The best is hit the edges which the Vikings did. RB screens and swing passes, Jet sweet runs etc. The other is to overpower at the point of attack and gap run on internal runs which the Vikings can't really do very well. The good thing is the 5 front also limited GB on their pass defense options.

By contrast the Vikings run a four front almost exclusively. They also gap attack with the DL so they create vertical seams as they rush. GB seemed to run a lot of gap runs and when they picked the right gap they were pretty successful. Zimmer's D seems to be willing to concede those occasional 6-8 yard runs, which frustrate the crap out of me personally, but fit his scheme. He trusts his CB's and safeties tackling to prevent the big gains and seems to like what it allows him to do in coverage enough to let the gap run hurt them a bit. You'll notice the Vikings are pretty strong against RB swing passes and WR screens because they have one less guy devoted to the middle so can cover the edges better.

None of this is 100% of the time but just general observations.


This is just so cool! Please post more often with your analysis. Don't be a stranger.



Agreed. I always like to be around someone smarter than myself Post gave insight into the trouble we've have had running on short down and distance.

One favor to ask though. Can you call Zim and Flip and get them to change their GD approach??



To be honest not sure what one would ask them to change. Defensive wise, Zim is 100 times smarter than I am and the defensive rating would indicate that his approach has far more upside then down.

On the short yardage thing. We just need bigger/stronger linemen for this type of play. The downside of zone and outside runs are they are slower to develop. When teams anticipates a run on short yardage and you can't "push em back" you have to hope the gap they shoot isn't the first path of the running back or you get those holy crap the defender almost took the hand-off plays. And there is the simple reality that a short yardage stopping defensive formation is going to shorten the time in the pocket for a QB so pass plays have to be quicker as well. So this creates a tight man coverage run blitz look, or what we used to call the Adrian Peterson defense. So your best options are to move the QB, to create more time, with a rollout type action or again hammer a single gap with a double team, which we aren't very good at. I think Cousins is capable of rollout looks but it isn't his preference. The rollout puts stress on the outside defenders (of which there are fewer because of the inside rush control) so that defender has to choose between QB rush and pass protect, much like the Theilen TD in the Greenbay game. Risk is nasty shots to QB as he runs.

Going back to the pocket presence of Cousins from the first post. One thing our linemen do a good job of is something we tell our highs school linemen is called getting whooped slowly. They lose ground vs their defenders but they do it in a way that forces the defender to go through them not around them. They also do it at the same speed and together so there isn't a quick and uneven pocket. The pocket just slowly collapses. And Cousins is awesome at stepping into that pocket and trusting the speed of its collapse to let him throw the ball. If you watch on film he often releases the ball and his arm almost hits his O-lineman in the helmet because he is stepping into that closing pocket. I'm looking at it with high school coach eyes but I would love to have a QB that can ignore the collapse that well and keep his eyes downfield.

< Message edited by ebergste -- 11/28/2018 10:25:49 PM >
Post #: 8858
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