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RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 8:52:31 AM   
Todd M

 

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Give picks and or players and get one really solid OL that just happens to be on the wrong side of a situation with a team that is willing to part with them.

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RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 8:57:43 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Sure if you pick duds it will be wasted resources and cap space. Kind of a losers mentality.

So lets not fix the oline because the odds are against it?

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Oline...early and often this draft
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RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:00:53 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Sure if you pick duds it will be wasted resources and cap space. Kind of a losers mentality.

So lets not fix the oline because the odds are against it?


Not what the article says at all...use resources on the other needs too....Big FA signings bust as often as they hit. A top 50 pick results the same if it isn't a top 15 pick...pick 16-50 have an equal chance of success when it comes to oline. So a trade down to grab one more top 50 pick maybe in order and still fill other needs if they don't trade up.

Sign Tate/Fitz
Sign Easton
Trade down and grab another top 50 pick and fill TE, OG, and LB needs.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/7/2019 9:05:49 AM >


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Post #: 28
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:11:27 AM   
kurt bilben


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Interesting:

Coller from 1500espn thinks the Vikes should spend on WR, TE and such over Oline. He states that Compton rated higher than the top FA Guards last year. He thinks signing Golden Tate or Fitz over a top Guard.



It’s this dumb ass attitude that I simply don’t get?

Freaking PFF ratings mean very little to me when I’ve watched Compton get trucked all year long, and yet some still give them relevance?

Remmers closely resembles Compton’s play.. We are a steaming tire fire on the interior OL and you get Coller saying this. How does this guy have a job?


Actually signing Boone was a dumpster fire as was signing the expensive guys over Compton in 2018....the article even mentioned many of the draft picks being lesser than Compton.

Bring back Easton if healthy and draft another high pick lineman but don't spend all your FA on the next Boone and/or Draft pick resources on someone that may take long to develop and might not help the next two years.



We signed Reiff, and Remmers the previous year with at least some stabilization (At least with Reiff)

We Need at least a couple OLineman through FA, and don’t discount possible trades.

With the exception of O’Neill, all of our drafted OLineman have failed (Even Elf this year)

From the little bit a I read of this, I find it asinine that you would prioritize 3rd WR over OLine for this team. Non starter.
Post #: 29
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:16:51 AM   
marty


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I would still prioritize OL over 3rd WR, but getting that Boldin, Golden, Wright guy for 3rd downs would really be golden. Someone that just seems to usually get open, and always makes the catch.

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Post #: 30
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:26:28 AM   
Phil Riewer


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I think Elf came back too soon from injury....I am not prioritizing 3rd WR over lineman. They are of equal importance.

Look at Philly (Smith, Agholor, Jeffery, Hollins, Tate, and viable 2nd TE last two years), LA Rams (Everett, Higbee, Woods, Kupp, and Cooks) KC (added Watkins, NE (grabbed Gordon at first chance, Michel, and Dorset), Colts (Inman, Ebron), NO (Kirkwood, Smith and Dez), Chicago (Robinson, Wyms, Gabriel, and Burton), Dallas (Amari, Gallup).

A big fail of Spielman isn't only the Oline....we don't have enough talent outside of Cook, Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph on offense.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/7/2019 9:27:53 AM >


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Post #: 31
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:26:30 AM   
Jeff Jesser


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Doesn't matter if we don't first get coaches that understand offense in the new NFL.
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RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:26:31 AM   
Tom Sykes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Interesting:

Coller from 1500espn thinks the Vikes should spend on WR, TE and such over Oline. He states that Compton rated higher than the top FA Guards last year. He thinks signing Golden Tate or Fitz over a top Guard.



It’s this dumb ass attitude that I simply don’t get?

Freaking PFF ratings mean very little to me when I’ve watched Compton get trucked all year long, and yet some still give them relevance?

Remmers closely resembles Compton’s play.. We are a steaming tire fire on the interior OL and you get Coller saying this. How does this guy have a job?

Coller does make some silly statements but the gyst of the article has some weight. I would be surprised if most NFL people don't share the notion that OL out of the draft – outside of the 2 or 3 blue chippers in each draft – simply will need some time to adjust to grown-ass NFL strength, explosiveness, and skill sets.

Unfortunately for us, Spielman takes it as road map scripture. He seems to think he and his staff are smart enough to pick guys at any point in the draft and grow them properly into professionals. In fact, it would not surprise me if, initially during draft conversations, they had no plans to start Elflein and O'Neill.

I don't think he'll learn from the past. Our OL needs so much help that even an average 2nd or 3rd rounder can come in and give as much or more as the veteran FAs we bring in off the street.
Post #: 33
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:31:16 AM   
Phil Riewer


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Like DL stated----Grimm is the ultimate OLine coach----you get malarkey and Grimm....they can mold a line.

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Post #: 34
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:33:45 AM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Doesn't matter if we don't first get coaches that understand offense in the new NFL.


Well then it doesn't matter because they are coming back, looking for someone, an OC, who will be in lock step agreement and we will see a concerted effort to buck the trend and be the running team Zim imagines will take it all the way.

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Post #: 35
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:43:47 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Doesn't matter if we don't first get coaches that understand offense in the new NFL.


Well then it doesn't matter because they are coming back, looking for someone, an OC, who will be in lock step agreement and we will see a concerted effort to buck the trend and be the running team Zim imagines will take it all the way.


I don't think that is the issue....we need to be able to run and pass....when you can't get a 3rd and 1 or 2 on scheme or blocking that would piss any coach off.

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Post #: 36
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:44:03 AM   
bohumm

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I think Elf came back too soon from injury....I am not prioritizing 3rd WR over lineman. They are of equal importance.

Look at Philly (Smith, Agholor, Jeffery, Hollins, Tate, and viable 2nd TE last two years), LA Rams (Everett, Higbee, Woods, Kupp, and Cooks) KC (added Watkins, NE (grabbed Gordon at first chance, Michel, and Dorset), Colts (Inman, Ebron), NO (Kirkwood, Smith and Dez), Chicago (Robinson, Wyms, Gabriel, and Burton), Dallas (Amari, Gallup).

A big fail of Spielman isn't only the Oline....we don't have enough talent outside of Cook, Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph on offense.

Spielman's biggest fail, perhaps, was not drafting Whitehair and Thomas/Shephard/Boyd/other over Treadwell and Alexander. I get that CB is valuable, but that fail not only weakened us, but strengthened the OL that dominated us.

And then we gave them Daniels, too....

Spielman is the problem....at least in part.
Post #: 37
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:48:21 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I think Elf came back too soon from injury....I am not prioritizing 3rd WR over lineman. They are of equal importance.

Look at Philly (Smith, Agholor, Jeffery, Hollins, Tate, and viable 2nd TE last two years), LA Rams (Everett, Higbee, Woods, Kupp, and Cooks) KC (added Watkins, NE (grabbed Gordon at first chance, Michel, and Dorset), Colts (Inman, Ebron), NO (Kirkwood, Smith and Dez), Chicago (Robinson, Wyms, Gabriel, and Burton), Dallas (Amari, Gallup).

A big fail of Spielman isn't only the Oline....we don't have enough talent outside of Cook, Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph on offense.

Spielman's biggest fail, perhaps, was not drafting Whitehair and Thomas/Shephard/Boyd/other over Treadwell and Alexander. I get that CB is valuable, but that fail not only weakened us, but strengthened the OL that dominated us.

And then we gave them Daniels, too....

Spielman is the problem....at least in part.


Not every move has worked but getting Smith and Patterson late in the 1st were seen as great moves....Alexander looks like a good 2nd round pick now....they have to move on and fill the oline, 3rd WR, and receiving TE needs.

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Post #: 38
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 9:53:47 AM   
geoffrey greitzer

 

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Malarky will be new OC. Will hire an old school OL Coach...idk which one...
Compton? Shouldn't even be on roster let alone start.
Dump "I had a good season" Treadwell...
It's about the team not saving some money..
OL!!! QB better, WR's better, Running game better..
Post #: 39
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 10:08:46 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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A good 3rd wr can be had in rd 3 or 4 or FA

We've been passing on Olineman in rd 1 for forever. Guys like Daniels or Hernandez this past draft and Whitehair in 2016

Spielman has to stop thinking he is smarter than everyone else and restock the weak link on the team.

If he doesn't he will be gone after next season.

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 40
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 3:22:14 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I think Elf came back too soon from injury....I am not prioritizing 3rd WR over lineman. They are of equal importance.

Look at Philly (Smith, Agholor, Jeffery, Hollins, Tate, and viable 2nd TE last two years), LA Rams (Everett, Higbee, Woods, Kupp, and Cooks) KC (added Watkins, NE (grabbed Gordon at first chance, Michel, and Dorset), Colts (Inman, Ebron), NO (Kirkwood, Smith and Dez), Chicago (Robinson, Wyms, Gabriel, and Burton), Dallas (Amari, Gallup).

A big fail of Spielman isn't only the Oline....we don't have enough talent outside of Cook, Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph on offense.

Spielman's biggest fail, perhaps, was not drafting Whitehair and Thomas/Shephard/Boyd/other over Treadwell and Alexander. I get that CB is valuable, but that fail not only weakened us, but strengthened the OL that dominated us.

And then we gave them Daniels, too....

Spielman is the problem....at least in part.


Not every move has worked but getting Smith and Patterson late in the 1st were seen as great moves....Alexander looks like a good 2nd round pick now....they have to move on and fill the oline, 3rd WR, and receiving TE needs.

Hindsight is 20/20. Just ask the Packers about Tony Mandarich, Or the Chargers about Ryan Leaf.
I mean really. Some players pan out well and it seems we've done well with a good percentage of our draft picks in recent years. Sure they need to focus more on the Oline and get better at finding a good WR for 3 etc. But luck of the draw. Treadwell and Patterson didn't pan out.

They can't be caught up in runs on things they need and draft a subpar player too high as a result. They have to have fallbacks in later rounds just in case they guy they really want in the first round doesn't fall to them.

If you look at every team you will find successes and failures in the draft. Some teams are better at it than others. Vikings haven't been bad...they just ignored what I think is the most important part of any offense. The OLine.

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Post #: 41
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 5:29:51 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I think Elf came back too soon from injury....I am not prioritizing 3rd WR over lineman. They are of equal importance.

Look at Philly (Smith, Agholor, Jeffery, Hollins, Tate, and viable 2nd TE last two years), LA Rams (Everett, Higbee, Woods, Kupp, and Cooks) KC (added Watkins, NE (grabbed Gordon at first chance, Michel, and Dorset), Colts (Inman, Ebron), NO (Kirkwood, Smith and Dez), Chicago (Robinson, Wyms, Gabriel, and Burton), Dallas (Amari, Gallup).

A big fail of Spielman isn't only the Oline....we don't have enough talent outside of Cook, Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph on offense.


How much more do you need?
Post #: 42
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 5:33:41 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Interesting, as I had recommended both Tate earlier in the season, or trading for Fitz in the offseason, bring him home.

Either one would be a good move. Tate has the heart of champion, am he made a big catch while taking a shot for the Eagles yesterday, and it's possible that Seattle would have beaten Dallas had they still had Tate.


And we might have taken our division if we still had Moss Carter in his prime AD etc
Post #: 43
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/7/2019 6:12:53 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I think Elf came back too soon from injury....I am not prioritizing 3rd WR over lineman. They are of equal importance.

Look at Philly (Smith, Agholor, Jeffery, Hollins, Tate, and viable 2nd TE last two years), LA Rams (Everett, Higbee, Woods, Kupp, and Cooks) KC (added Watkins, NE (grabbed Gordon at first chance, Michel, and Dorset), Colts (Inman, Ebron), NO (Kirkwood, Smith and Dez), Chicago (Robinson, Wyms, Gabriel, and Burton), Dallas (Amari, Gallup).

A big fail of Spielman isn't only the Oline....we don't have enough talent outside of Cook, Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph on offense.

Spielman's biggest fail, perhaps, was not drafting Whitehair and Thomas/Shephard/Boyd/other over Treadwell and Alexander. I get that CB is valuable, but that fail not only weakened us, but strengthened the OL that dominated us.

And then we gave them Daniels, too....

Spielman is the problem....at least in part.


Not every move has worked but getting Smith and Patterson late in the 1st were seen as great moves....Alexander looks like a good 2nd round pick now....they have to move on and fill the oline, 3rd WR, and receiving TE needs.



Your opinionated revisionist history doesn't work. Patterson was not seen as a "great move". He was seen as a boom/bust type.

Sure, just "move on and 'fill' the oline". We can probably knock that out next week!

WOW!!
Post #: 44
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/9/2019 2:54:19 PM   
Tom Sykes


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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I think Elf came back too soon from injury....I am not prioritizing 3rd WR over lineman. They are of equal importance.

Look at Philly (Smith, Agholor, Jeffery, Hollins, Tate, and viable 2nd TE last two years), LA Rams (Everett, Higbee, Woods, Kupp, and Cooks) KC (added Watkins, NE (grabbed Gordon at first chance, Michel, and Dorset), Colts (Inman, Ebron), NO (Kirkwood, Smith and Dez), Chicago (Robinson, Wyms, Gabriel, and Burton), Dallas (Amari, Gallup).

A big fail of Spielman isn't only the Oline....we don't have enough talent outside of Cook, Thielen, Diggs, and Rudolph on offense.

Spielman's biggest fail, perhaps, was not drafting Whitehair and Thomas/Shephard/Boyd/other over Treadwell and Alexander. I get that CB is valuable, but that fail not only weakened us, but strengthened the OL that dominated us.

And then we gave them Daniels, too....

Spielman is the problem....at least in part.


Not every move has worked but getting Smith and Patterson late in the 1st were seen as great moves....Alexander looks like a good 2nd round pick now....they have to move on and fill the oline, 3rd WR, and receiving TE needs.



Your opinionated revisionist history doesn't work. Patterson was not seen as a "great move". He was seen as a boom/bust type.

Sure, just "move on and 'fill' the oline". We can probably knock that out next week!

WOW!!

They were considered aggressive moves – I don't remember whether they were considered good moves by the pundits.

It was during that period where Spielman was all bout building quality picks at the top of the draft before jumping over to the darkside of quantity picks in the later rounds.
Post #: 45
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/10/2019 6:50:20 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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He traded up to get Patterson. Ran back to the 'war room' while at the press conference. Mentioned liking the 5th year option thing.

It was near the end of the first round, so the Pundits stopped punditing and the new topic was "Best of the rest" for the top of the 2nd round.

Boom/bust defined.

"Patterson was selected in the first round with the 29th overall pick by the Minnesota Vikings in the 2013 NFL Draft in a draft-day trade with the New England Patriots; the Patriots received four draft picks (a second, third, fourth and seventh)."

They probably harped on Belicheat stocking up picks.
Post #: 46
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/11/2019 1:25:12 AM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

He traded up to get Patterson. Ran back to the 'war room' while at the press conference. Mentioned liking the 5th year option thing.

It was near the end of the first round, so the Pundits stopped punditing and the new topic was "Best of the rest" for the top of the 2nd round.

Boom/bust defined.

"Patterson was selected in the first round with the 29th overall pick by the Minnesota Vikings in the 2013 NFL Draft in a draft-day trade with the New England Patriots; the Patriots received four draft picks (a second, third, fourth and seventh)."

They probably harped on Belicheat stocking up picks.


They drafted Jamie Collins with our 2nd round pick.

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Post #: 47
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/11/2019 7:07:11 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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In summary

Spielman is bad at drafting olineman

Our coaches are bad at developing Spielmans late round turd olineman

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 48
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/11/2019 12:52:45 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

In summary

Spielman is bad at drafting olineman

Our coaches are bad at developing Spielmans late round turd olineman



Does a particular scout or group of them deal strictly with OL?

Just tossing more people out there so you can post about firing them
Post #: 49
RE: 2019 Free Agents - 1/11/2019 6:18:56 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

In summary

Spielman is bad at drafting olineman

Our coaches are bad at developing Spielmans late round turd olineman



Does a particular scout or group of them deal strictly with OL?

Just tossing more people out there so you can post about firing them

Unsure regarding scouts

I know Studwell was head of scouting or something of the like but i think he was released.

I'm not advocating any firings but I reserve the right to change my mind.

I just want us to fix this damn sieve of an oline.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 50
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