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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason

 
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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 11:29:18 AM   
kgdabom

 

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Are contract details out? How many years guaranteed and how much per year? Saunders should get the lowest and shortest contract ever given for a HC. Nobody I mean nobody else would have any interest. The only bidding on him would be against ourselves.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/20/2019 11:30:22 AM >


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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 11:32:05 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

It's Ryan's job to lose. Those other candidates will still be available a couple years from now if it doesn't work out. Actually, I bet the shine will be off most of them, and it will be a new crop of candidates.


And how many years of Towns' career will have been squandered under Ryan?

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 11:39:37 AM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

It's Ryan's job to lose. Those other candidates will still be available a couple years from now if it doesn't work out. Actually, I bet the shine will be off most of them, and it will be a new crop of candidates.

In the meantime we have wasted a couple more years.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 11:39:47 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

It's Ryan's job to lose. Those other candidates will still be available a couple years from now if it doesn't work out. Actually, I bet the shine will be off most of them, and it will be a new crop of candidates.


Stick to accounting...
Post #: 29
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 12:20:40 PM   
David Levine


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This feels remarkably like Flip's exhaustive coaching search - that resulted in him hiring himself to do the job.
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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 12:22:13 PM   
TJSweens


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The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 12:27:44 PM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

I have to say, I'm not real surprised that we are stuck with Saunders.

Is Rosas an idiot, or was he ever really allowed to hire somebody else?

I am sure that Rosas has complete control over who he hires. I am sure that Glen may prefer that Saunders is hired. The real issue is that the personal suck. We only have two starters. Everybody else has major problems. I don't think anyone can coach these clowns into a decent team. Thibs managed to take a team with some real promise and turn it into a chunk of crap in a very short time. That took real talent to make this team to totally implode and players wanting to leave in mass.


2 starters All Star Starters? I don't know....Teague,Okogie, Covington, Saric, Towns isn't a bad starting five if you can keep Teague and Covington healthy.

quote:


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It's Ryan's job to lose. Those other candidates will still be available a couple years from now if it doesn't work out. Actually, I bet the shine will be off most of them, and it will be a new crop of candidates.




_____________________________-------------------------- --------- --
This is a joke. The only all star is KAT and he needs to improve on defense. Covington is a decent starter, but is yet to be seen if he can last a season. Okogie and Saric play defense but a very inconsistent offensively and Teague is a ball hog, can't run an offense and is well past his prime. Jones has problems shooting. We have a very weak bench and are maxed out on cap. We have a high lot pick in a draft that is a crap shoot after the first 3 picks. Saunders will do as he is told and will be easy to mode.











Post #: 32
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 12:33:46 PM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

This feels remarkably like Flip's exhaustive coaching search - that resulted in him hiring himself to do the job.

Par for the course. Don't see great things coming over the next 5 years. Enjoy more of the 5th Avenue Country Club. Lots more of the same. Noct going to get a whole lot better and not going to get a whole lot worse. We just don't match up well against the top teams and that is not going to change too. It's the nature of the team culture.
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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 12:33:48 PM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

It's Ryan's job to lose. Those other candidates will still be available a couple years from now if it doesn't work out. Actually, I bet the shine will be off most of them, and it will be a new crop of candidates.


Stick to accounting...

How is it you are right but the new head of basketball operations for an NBA franchise doesn't know what he's doing?

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 12:45:41 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

It's Ryan's job to lose. Those other candidates will still be available a couple years from now if it doesn't work out. Actually, I bet the shine will be off most of them, and it will be a new crop of candidates.


Stick to accounting...

How is it you are right but the new head of basketball operations for an NBA franchise doesn't know what he's doing?


Because the new head of basketball operations for an NBA franchise just hired Ryan Saunders as his head coach. I seriously doubt he even had a choice.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 1:19:57 PM   
kgdabom

 

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The assistant coaches have a pecking order. I don't think they go by 1-2-3-4 per se. Usually the right hand man to the head coach is called the Lead Assistant or more recently called Associate head coach. I have read that Ryan was typically about 4th in the pecking order. Ryan was never the right hand man or the assistant that the head coach went to first.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 1:39:09 PM   
Matt Lang


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Bad process = bad results
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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 1:42:02 PM   
kgdabom

 

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sd

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/20/2019 1:49:39 PM >


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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 2:28:57 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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Being liked by the players is nice, but it's far from the main criteria for a head coaching position. No you don't want players and coach loathing each other, but the coach needs to be able to crack the whip, put someone in their place, or challenge someone sometimes. Yet to be seen if Saunders is capable of that.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 2:34:01 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

This feels remarkably like Flip's exhaustive coaching search - that resulted in him hiring himself to do the job.


That's the main thing that bugs me about it. I don't necessarily predict Ryan is doomed to failure, but you can't tell me there wasn't a better more proven candidate out there better than Ryan Saunders. That's just preposterous.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 2:35:41 PM   
twinsfan


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Post #: 41
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 2:50:16 PM   
David Levine


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You're right Matt.

We hired Toby Gardenhire because he's buddies with the players, we should be thrilled.
Post #: 42
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 2:54:22 PM   
TJSweens


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Any word on his staff or are they just going to keep Flip's old trained monkeys to help out?

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 3:02:20 PM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Any word on his staff or are they just going to keep Flip's old trained monkeys to help out?



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55% of Republicans think the Earth is 5,000 years old. All kinds of people believe all kinds of crazy things. You just gotta move on, man.

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Post #: 44
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 3:39:58 PM   
Phil Riewer


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LIMITED PARTNERS
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TERRI POPP
JOYCE SEXTON
WILLIAM SEXTON
PHIL "FLIP" SAUNDERS FAMILY
R. WYNN KEARNEY, JR.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 3:56:17 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

LIMITED PARTNERS
MEYER ORBACH
WILLIAM J. (BILL) POPP
TERRI POPP
JOYCE SEXTON
WILLIAM SEXTON
PHIL "FLIP" SAUNDERS FAMILY
R. WYNN KEARNEY, JR.


Debbie has Flip's very tiny piece of the team.

Its not enough to matter, vote or have any say in things.
Post #: 46
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 7:09:33 PM   
bohumm

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Sorry friends. Really.

At least they could have kept/promoted/hired permanently the better assistant (David Adelman). WTF? Oh wait, it's not a meritocracy....

I love the smell of lasagna in the morning.


Maybe Towns will call Ryan a little bitch before it's over. Given how history repeats itself.

And then Ryan will profusely apologize to Towns for forcing him into a situation where he had no choice but to call him a little bitch, which Flip actually did when KG called him a little bitch.
Post #: 47
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/20/2019 9:16:27 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Sorry friends. Really.

At least they could have kept/promoted/hired permanently the better assistant (David Adelman). WTF? Oh wait, it's not a meritocracy....

I love the smell of lasagna in the morning.


Maybe Towns will call Ryan a little bitch before it's over. Given how history repeats itself.

And then Ryan will profusely apologize to Towns for forcing him into a situation where he had no choice but to call him a little bitch, which Flip actually did when KG called him a little bitch.


If KG burned down Flip's house, Flip would have apologized for buying one that was so flammable.

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Post #: 48
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/21/2019 10:52:07 AM   
David Levine


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I think there is a lot of truth in this Canis comment:

The biggest problem for the franchise has always been Glen.

But he also controls he whole thing. How do you control the guy who controls everything and is bad at it? Through effective politics. You manage your owner. This is why I am currently more optimistic about the wolves than I have been in a long time.

Ethan Casson clearly is good at this. He has gained Glens trust and used that to do the following: (1) fire Thibs mid season with over ten million left on a contract, (2) conduct a legitimate POBO search and hire the right hand man of a top 5 POBO. Pretty damn good start.

Rosas is also clearly good at this. If you listen he is long winded, but then read it in print and it reads very well as messaging. Notice how often he compliments Glen and clearly iterates that Glen wants to build a championship organization. This is currying favor with Glen and also setting the playing field for down the road to have a framing of when he asks Glen for things "well Glen, you said you want a championship, this is how they do things". It’s messaging to set the expectation so that he can also use it to manage Glen. Notice how Rosas was very clear in his messaging that he had full authority over the coaching hire.

This is also why I am not bothered at all by the Ryan. You lose a ton of political good will within the organization, especially with Glen if you fire Ryan. If the guy you replace him with turns out to be a bust, you have really lost credibility and shot yourself in the foot politically. As of now, Ryan is a relatively blank slate who is popular and seems willing to work with the POBO. As the poster said earlier Rosas likely made the calculation that the possibles gain in coaching is not worth the political loss. Here is where the messaging on hiring authority is important. It was for the fans for sure, but I also bet it was for Glen as well. Rosas is saying to Glen, I had full authority to make this decision, and I like the guy that happens to be your favorite, you can trust my decision making.

I see Saunders likely result as Scott Brookesque. Maybe not the guy you want tactically, but solid for player management and hopefully development, and probably not a disaster and may turn out to be better than expected

So I agree that this looks like twolves as usual, and may be. But to me this looks more like a guy including a political calculation to manage an owner to ensure he has the political power going forward to do what he wants and to have the political capital to make much harder sells: e.g trade Wiggins

Are Casson and Rosas good basketball minds? I have no idea and it could be a disaster ultimately, but Casson is off to a heck of a start and Rosas has the resume.

What they are clearly good at is managing the owner. Since Glen is the biggest problem, that is the biggest thing to address right now. I think these guys are playing the long game with Glen and seem to know what they are doing. On many teams "managing the owner" over hiring the absolute best coach would be a disaster. With the wolves it is probably a necessary step to long term change. Gain his full trust in the short term to leverage full authority for the long term

Having said all that:

Rui promise if true is bad. I’ll be shocked if that is true, as the timing makes no sense.

Layden has to go, or have minimal authority. I’ll be surprised if that doesn’t happen. Word is that other teams thought he was a clown when trying to trade with the wolves. Rockets spent a ton of time negotiating with the wolves and had their four picks turned down.

Posted by Tollystones on May 21, 2019 | 4:54 AM
Post #: 49
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/21/2019 11:29:00 AM   
twinsfan


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Zulgad: Timberwolves have little to lose by giving Ryan Saunders a chance

Hmmmm. Not an original take.

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Post #: 50
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