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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason

 
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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/28/2019 1:22:19 PM   
TJSweens


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If these guys can get us out of salary cap / luxury tax hell, while adding meaningful assets, I will be truly impressed.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/28/2019 1:51:23 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

If these guys can get us out of salary cap / luxury tax hell, while adding meaningful assets, I will be truly impressed.


I think its going to be a multi-year process.

Since we completely lack cap space, it makes taking on other team's poor contracts for positive assets impossible.

My hope is they value players properly and don't lose any early deals as they rework the roster.
Post #: 77
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/28/2019 1:56:09 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

If these guys can get us out of salary cap / luxury tax hell, while adding meaningful assets, I will be truly impressed.


I think its going to be a multi-year process.

Since we completely lack cap space, it makes taking on other team's poor contracts for positive assets impossible.

My hope is they value players properly and don't lose any early deals as they rework the roster.


Oh, I don't expect it can happen overnight.

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Post #: 78
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/29/2019 9:23:09 AM   
ruffenach

 

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Any news about the assistant coaches and who they are bring in for workouts. For now we have to coach up the group of players that we have.
Post #: 79
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 5/29/2019 2:07:42 PM   
David Levine


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A well-thought out and reasonable take:

I think the point being missed about the Saunders hire is that the criteria that determines a successful HC in the NBA is changing. You’ve got guys from the G-League leading teams to the Finals in their first year. You’ve got retread experienced HCs mired in perennial mediocrity.

It seems like it used to be that the best coaches needed to have playing credibility and a fair amount of experience. They needed to be masters at X’s and O’s, or supreme motivators. Common to all, though, was the perception that the HC is the primary basketball strategy and coaching leverage point. I don’t think that’s true anymore.

The most forward thinking teams lean on their analytics, predictive modeling, and scouting to inform the actual strategies used on the floor. The Rockets have a made a living off doing this. You think D’Antoni is solely responsible for the strategy and tactics used?

I think what you see around the League is a mix of necessary components for success: scouting, analytics, X’s and O’s, player development (these are the big ones off the top of my head). You need to have a great person (or people) covering all of these to have your foot in the door, and you need all of these working together to achieve a synergy greater than the sum of the parts. Otherwise you end up with the Wolves or Pelicans, or last year’s Bucks. Talented teams that can’t quite put it together (I’m referencing underachieving more than competing for a title, as the Pels and Wolves obviously need more pieces to compete for a championship, and arguably they underachieved given what talents they did have).

I don’t think it matters as much who covers which component as long as someone does. As a result, it seems as though the new model for success in pro sports is a marriage of two executives: one on the FO side and one on the coaching side. I say executives because these guys need to be on the same page and establish the culture and business practices – the how – that everyone will use. What they actually do is often farmed out to the best people you can get, if it’s not in your skillset.

So the Vikings have Spielman and Zimmer, and Spielman has a bunch of great scouts and Bryz (salary cap genius). Zimmer is great at defense, and gets the best offensive coordinator he can. BUT, Zimmer is a master communicator and sets the entire culture of the team, and can tell Spielman exactly what he needs in players.

The Twins have Falvey and Levine. Falvey is an analytics guy, with a specialty in pitching. They hired Rocco Baldelli this year to establish the culture they wanted in the clubhouse, AND because Baldelli is a master communicator with players. Baldelli is 37 and has never been a manager before, so the Twins hired great coaches around them, and this year the Twins are a top 3 team in all of MLB.

So the Wolves hire Rosas, who hires Pascucci and Gupta, and also sticks with Saunders, whose chief skill is as a master communicator. Rosas has stated over and over again that Saunders will be surrounded by great coaches, and that Saunders chief responsibility is to establish culture and oversee all of these pieces working together – just like Baldelli or even Zimmer (although football isn’t quite so analytically driven). Kerr is a master communicator. So is Nurse, Bud, and many of the others.

These guys (HCs) don’t have to brilliant themselves at coming up with stuff – they need to be brilliant at sorting through all the insights your analytics staff is providing you and getting your team of coaches to put it together into something coherent and then message it to players and get them to buy in. The skill your analytics staff can’t give you is the communication/collaboration part. Can you imagine trying to get Smitch to partner effectively with Rosas? Or Thibs? So I think you see Rosas choosing to hire an innate skill that’s really hard to teach (communication/collaboration) that is a prerequisite for success on the floor when using analytics, and bank on his (Rosas’) ability to hire enough good people to cover any lack of experience or knowledge sets.

The Twins pulled a great pitching coach from the college ranks. These guys are out there – innovators who simply need a chance to prove their ideas and not get caught in the aristocracy of pro sports (where there are still a lot of decision makers who are very traditional – so you get idiot former players offering hot takes on national TV and then being considered as a GM for no other reason than they were once a good player?). It’s ridiculous.

I don’t know if Saunders will be successful. I fully buy into Rosas’ other moves, and am reserving judgment until we see the Wolves on the floor (and we see who is brought in as assistants). I think Rosas believes in himself and his own ability to tell any HC what works and what doesn’t. Saunders seems like a hire in line with that, and seems like the kind of thing you will see more and more in sports – HC as an executive rather than a tactician.

Posted by Dr. Wolfenstein on May 29, 2019 | 9:42 AM
Post #: 80
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/1/2019 11:06:38 AM   
David Levine


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Darren Wolfson✔@DWolfsonKSTP
Two names to watch for interviews to join Ryan Saunders' #Twolves staff: Chad Forcier and David Vanterpool. The latter interviewed for the head coaching job.

-------------

These would be excellent choices. Forcier coached 6 years under Rick Carlisle at Detroit and Indiana and 9 years under Pop in SA.

David Vanterpool was an assistant at CSKA Moscow 2007-2012 and an assistant at Portland since 2012.

-----------

In San Antonio from 2007-16, Chad Forcier was in charge of player development and was credited with the incredible rise of Spurs’ forward Kawhi Leonard. But to Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich, Forcier always represented someone much more impactful than just a coach who worked out players after practice or before games.

Vogel recognized that as well and aggressively sought and landed Forcier as his lead assistant when putting his coaching staff together for his first season in Orlando. The high praise of Popovich certainly helped Forcier’s case for landing a job as an assistant coach in Orlando.

"First of all he’s wonderful at his job and he understands the characteristics necessary to be successful on the court, and that can be Os and Xs or developing a player," said Popovich, who hired Forcier following his first two stints in the NBA with the Pacers and Pistons. "He was important in looking at what we did offensively. Defensively, he made suggestions while doing the development job for us. He’d always make a little tweak here or there with some play that I’d have and talk about how this can be made better. So he’s creative in that sense.

"As far as knowing what a player needs, you can look at someone like Tony Parker or Kawhi Leonard and see the effect that he’s had on those guys," Popovich continued. "So he’s kind of got the whole package. And when you see the enthusiasm and the love of the game that he shows consistently day after day – win or lose – he’s a pretty special guy."

www.nba.com/magic/news/orlando-magic-san-antonio-spurs-notebook-denton-20161129
Post #: 81
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/1/2019 12:56:41 PM   
ruffenach

 

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Those are real positives for assistant coaches
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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/2/2019 4:33:15 AM   
kgdabom

 

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Still no hires for assistant coaches right?

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/2/2019 8:15:23 PM   
ronhextall


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Houston is on the way down, the 4 first round picks for Butler would likely give you two very high #1's before its over.

I would shop Towns if something dramatic doesn't during next season. He isn't that great when it comes to the bottom line, WINNING.

Franchise is a mismanaged mess.
Post #: 84
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/2/2019 8:21:53 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Houston is on the way down, the 4 first round picks for Butler would likely give you two very high #1's before its over.

I would shop Towns if something dramatic doesn't during next season. He isn't that great when it comes to the bottom line, WINNING.

Franchise is a mismanaged mess.


Probably not.

First, the last 2 picks were rumored to be protected - meaning they likely would've become 2nd rounders if Houston got bad.

Second, there is no reason to think Houston is going to bottom out. More likely they retool like they always do. They haven't drafted higher than 14 in 13 years. Remember, they'd have Butler on the team as well.

Also, KAT can't win on his own. The team had 1 other legit NBA starter and he played 22 games for us. You don't look to dump a legit All-NBA player once you finally have a real NBA front office in place for the first time in franchise history.)

< Message edited by David Levine -- 6/2/2019 9:04:20 PM >
Post #: 85
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 6:35:27 AM   
TJSweens


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Shop KAT? So we can spend the next 10 years in the lottery looking for another player as good as KAT?

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Post #: 86
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 9:12:06 AM   
Karl Juhnke


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Agree with the post above. I can possibly live with Saunders as HC, but under very specific circumstances. So much depends on the staff put in place around him.

If as speculated above, Saunders is just sort of a basketball CEO, establishing culture, communicating, overseeing the big picture, coordinating the staff, and of course making in game decisions like rotations and such (which I think he did OK at last year) I think it can work out...IF he has great staff working with him doing the day to day work of improving the team, guys with real vision and prowess. A huge if.

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 6/3/2019 9:15:38 AM >


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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 12:16:50 PM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Shop KAT? So we can spend the next 10 years in the lottery looking for another player as good as KAT?


they are always in the lottery with him.
Post #: 88
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 12:19:55 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Shop KAT? So we can spend the next 10 years in the lottery looking for another player as good as KAT?


they are always in the lottery with him.


That's the result of miserable FO moves to build a team around him. Not on KAT. They can still build a team around him. Get rid of him and you are starting from scratch.

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Post #: 89
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 12:45:40 PM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Shop KAT? So we can spend the next 10 years in the lottery looking for another player as good as KAT?


they are always in the lottery with him.


That's the result of miserable FO moves to build a team around him. Not on KAT. They can still build a team around him. Get rid of him and you are starting from scratch.

Meaning they move up in the lottery, they are always in, with multiple bullets to fire for the next several years.

At some point Towns will want to leave, if he has a competitive bone in his body.
Post #: 90
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 12:49:19 PM   
David Levine


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It worked so well when we trade KG because we couldn't put a team around him.

It worked so well when we trade Love because we couldn't put a team around him.
Post #: 91
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 12:55:59 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Shop KAT? So we can spend the next 10 years in the lottery looking for another player as good as KAT?


they are always in the lottery with him.


That's the result of miserable FO moves to build a team around him. Not on KAT. They can still build a team around him. Get rid of him and you are starting from scratch.

Meaning they move up in the lottery, they are always in, with multiple bullets to fire for the next several years.

At some point Towns will want to leave, if he has a competitive bone in his body.


Move up in the lottery to what end? That hasn't served them in the past and it wont going forward. Even if they manage to strike gold one year, it doesn't assure getting a player anywhere near as good as Towns. Need I remind you that Andrew Wiggins is a former #1.

Towns will want to leave if we can't get any better. The whole reason for bringing in Rosas and a hand picked strategy team is to find creative ways to build the talent around Towns. We have a real, elite player to build around. Let them do their do their jobs and build around him.

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Post #: 92
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 1:13:06 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Shop KAT? So we can spend the next 10 years in the lottery looking for another player as good as KAT?


they are always in the lottery with him.


That's the result of miserable FO moves to build a team around him. Not on KAT. They can still build a team around him. Get rid of him and you are starting from scratch.

Meaning they move up in the lottery, they are always in, with multiple bullets to fire for the next several years.

At some point Towns will want to leave, if he has a competitive bone in his body.


You realize the picks would be every other year.

So this year we would've got the 26th pick (or later because Butler would be a Rocket)

In 2021 we likely get another mid to late 1st round pick.

In 2023 we either get a non-lottery pick or a 2nd round pick.

In 2025 we either get a non-lottery pick or a 2nd round pick.

Wow.

That would absolutely help us rebuild without KAT!
Post #: 93
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 1:33:41 PM   
ronhextall


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I would have pushed for the Butler picks to be unprotected as well as all you get for Towns.

Obviously you don’t do it with protected picks.

Butler was right in his criticism of the Wolves. Butler is also an Ahole.

Do way in hell does it get turned around in time to utilize Towns good years.

You are not attracting any free agents to come to Minneapolis that are difference makers.

Need to draft studs in multiple years of lottery.
Post #: 94
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 1:42:30 PM   
TJSweens


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I'll disagree on these points:

1. They can rebuild while Towns still has a lot of good years left. Rosas is bringing in people who have done it before.
2. You can spend years in the lottery and never hit on a real stud. That is just hope and hope is a piss poor strategy.
3. You can push for no lottery protection, but good luck trying to get a team to agree to it.

The best strategy available to the Wolves is to maneuver with the assets they have to build around the young stud they already have in Towns.

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Post #: 95
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 1:54:10 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would have pushed for the Butler picks to be unprotected as well as all you get for Towns.

Obviously you don’t do it with protected picks.

Butler was right in his criticism of the Wolves. Butler is also an Ahole.

Do way in hell does it get turned around in time to utilize Towns good years.

You are not attracting any free agents to come to Minneapolis that are difference makers.

Need to draft studs in multiple years of lottery.


Houston has a Top 5 front office. They aren't giving you unprotected picks 7 years in the future. No one is.

The NBA has shown that if you build a decent team, free agents will come. And despite what the coastal media says, Minneapolis always rates really highly among NBA players. No, its not LA, NY or Miami, but it beats out a good 2/3 of the rest of the league.

The main thing you're missing is the Wolves have NEVER had a competent front office. Ever. In. Their. History.

We still may not have one, but we've never started out with guys that have the pedigrees of Rosas, Gupta and Pascucci. Literally all 3 of them are so far beyond anyone we've ever had in our front office.

Maybe we should give them more than 1 season before we decide to dump a 23 year-old legit franchise player because the "grass may be greener"?
Post #: 96
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 1:56:01 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

No way in hell does it get turned around in time to utilize Towns good years.



He's 23 years old! He hasn't even scratched the start of the prime of his career yet. He's locked up until he's 28.

If these new guys can;t build a winner around KAT in that time, they aren't building one by trading him away.
Post #: 97
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 8:21:06 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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Towns was the one single win in the draft/lottery this team has ever had. Their one time they had the #1 pick...which considering their history of awfulness is mind boggling. And they did not whiff on it. They got a player who at 23 is already the second best player in their history. You don't even think of moving him. You cling to him for dear life and build around him.

Good Lord.

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 6/3/2019 8:22:06 PM >


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Post #: 98
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/3/2019 8:34:31 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Depending on the lottery would be damn foolish.

We've move down almost every year and I believe we only stood pat once and netted Towns.

It's almost mathematically impossible whats happened to the Wolves since the inception of the lottery.

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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 7:29:34 AM   
ruffenach

 

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I know that it is extremely frustrating being a Wolves fan. I am very optimistic now. We finally have a front office that is bringing real talent and are legitimate people with top credentials. They appear to have stepped up their game and bringing in some top notch assistants too. They got two legitimate players for Butler. They also have some young players, including KAT, who they maybe able able to coach up. They have done the right thing and picked staff to help keep him happy. I don't think that KAT has reached his full potential yet. He is one in 10 years player. I am willing to let this front office do its job and cheer them on. Thibs blew up the place and had no ability to be the GM and the game has moved on past him and he refused to change with it. Taking on recycled Bulls, well past their prime, is no way to win.
Post #: 100
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