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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason

 
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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 9:03:43 AM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Depending on the lottery would be damn foolish.

We've move down almost every year and I believe we only stood pat once and netted Towns.

It's almost mathematically impossible whats happened to the Wolves since the inception of the lottery.


Their lottery luck is awful.

I also could have thrown darts at the top 30 players in the draft every year and done better than the Wolves.

What Khan did should be a crime against sports humanity.
Post #: 101
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 10:35:48 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Depending on the lottery would be damn foolish.

We've move down almost every year and I believe we only stood pat once and netted Towns.

It's almost mathematically impossible whats happened to the Wolves since the inception of the lottery.


Their lottery luck is awful.

I also could have thrown darts at the top 30 players in the draft every year and done better than the Wolves.

What Khan did should be a crime against sports humanity.


So the answer is to trade away a sure thing for more chances?
Post #: 102
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 10:36:33 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Depending on the lottery would be damn foolish.

We've move down almost every year and I believe we only stood pat once and netted Towns.

It's almost mathematically impossible whats happened to the Wolves since the inception of the lottery.


Their lottery luck is awful.

I also could have thrown darts at the top 30 players in the draft every year and done better than the Wolves.

What Khan did should be a crime against sports humanity.


So the answer is to trade away a sure thing for more chances?


Law of averages my man. Law of averages.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 103
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 11:25:55 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 5315
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Depending on the lottery would be damn foolish.

We've move down almost every year and I believe we only stood pat once and netted Towns.

It's almost mathematically impossible whats happened to the Wolves since the inception of the lottery.


Their lottery luck is awful.

I also could have thrown darts at the top 30 players in the draft every year and done better than the Wolves.

What Khan did should be a crime against sports humanity.


So the answer is to trade away a sure thing for more chances?





If you think Towns is good enough and tough enough to carry a team that’s great.

I don’t think he is. Since nobody is coming to the Wolves what you have is nothing. There is no middle ground in nba. You are not building around a pretty damn good player and going anywhere.

Butler was right. These guys are soft and don’t do what it takes to win. If you don’t think you have “the man” you might as well quit and start over. You think Towns is the man. I don’t. Time will tell. So far the only way you would know Towns is some great generational franchise player is to read this board.
Post #: 104
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 11:30:04 AM   
David Levine


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I give up. There is so little rational to grab onto in that post that its just pointless to try.
Post #: 105
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 11:34:57 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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This is from 2017 regarding the Wolves lottery woes


In the past 13 years combined, there has been a 14.28% chance of us never moving up, which means there was an 85.72% chance of us moving up at some point.
In our franchise's existence, we have been to 21 lotteries in 27 years (wewlad). In those 21 lotteries, there was a 1.523% chance of us never moving up, and a 98.48% chance of moving up at some point.



One would think we are overdue to move up big time one of these decades

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 6/4/2019 11:36:04 AM >


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Post #: 106
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 11:39:24 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Minnesota is unlucky, plain and simple.

Lastly, I think this is just crazy because of how much is at stake. A scandal where they prove bias in this process would send the fans running for the exits as it hurt the leagues reputation perhaps irreversibly. The lottery machine manufacturer, the Big 4 accounting firms (both who have reps who oversee the process) would also be implicated. Heck, and the lawsuits of the small market franchises against the League would be enormous and the value of franchises would plummet.

The benefit of giving large market teams a slightly better pick once in awhile is just not worth it.

The world is also different now - it no longer requires stars to be in large markets to draw attention to the NBA. We have national broadcasts and technologies. Players like Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, Antetokounmpo, Westbrook, and yes, Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins can be stars without playing in LA or NY.


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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 107
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 11:51:26 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 71285
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

This is from 2017 regarding the Wolves lottery woes


In the past 13 years combined, there has been a 14.28% chance of us never moving up, which means there was an 85.72% chance of us moving up at some point.
In our franchise's existence, we have been to 21 lotteries in 27 years (wewlad). In those 21 lotteries, there was a 1.523% chance of us never moving up, and a 98.48% chance of moving up at some point.



One would think we are overdue to move up big time one of these decades


It would be nice, but its not needed. Teams in "woe is us" markets aren't at nearly the disadvantage that some people think they are.

Denver just broke a 9 year streak of being out of the Playoffs by getting the #2 seed in the West. Their best player was a 2nd round pick. Hell, they have 3 2nd round picks in their starting line-up along with a #7 pick and a #19 pick.

Milwaukee was the #1 seed in the East without having a single lottery pick they drafted in their starting line-up. Smart drafting, shrewd trades and bargain free agents made that team.

Look at the turnaround by the Clippers. Yes, they're in LA (the red-headed step-child of LA), but that entire team was built on smart front office moves and not attracting big free agents.

Here is a dirty little secret in the NBA. Attracting big-time free agents almost never leads to big-time winning. Smart drafting, good trades and finding hidden gems in free agency is how teams are built.

You can't look at the Wolves history and project forward. For the first time ever, we have a smart guy at the top (Cassan) that Glen appears to trust enough to defer to. That's HUGE.

On top of that, we hired the right-hand man of a Top 3 GM to run the team. He first two moves were to hire one of the most respected analytical minds in the entire NBA and one of the top international scouts.

Towns is good enough that just 1 season ago, he was the runaway choice of NBA GMs as the "player they'd most like to build a franchise around". Did he suddenly get worse this year? Nope. He was actually even better - especially once Butler and then Thibs were gone. But no one is good enough to carry this roster (and all the disfunction and toxicity that Butler and Thibs brought) anywhere.

Dude is a legit superstar. He's the best offensive big in the game, and he's shown flashes of being a solid defender. You don't throw that away and hope you can somehow find better.

And you absolutely don't give an entire new front office (that inherited a shit show of a roster) one year to "prove it" before you dump your best player.

< Message edited by David Levine -- 6/4/2019 12:04:19 PM >
Post #: 108
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 12:01:15 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Good stuff DL

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Post #: 109
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 12:07:41 PM   
TJSweens


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Year after year we complained about the Wolves lottery luck. Year after year, the big names were gone when we picked. Year after year, teams that drafted after us came away with better players. There have always been good players on the board when our pick came up. We just never seemed to be up to the challenge of figuring out who they were.

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Post #: 110
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 12:28:07 PM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I give up. There is so little rational to grab onto in that post that its just pointless to try.


I don't care what you think, time will tell. That's the beauty of opinion in sports.

If the Wolves are still sucking ass in two years and Towns starts squawking about a list of 3 teams he wants to be traded to I will be proven correct.

If the Wolves get a top four seed and win a couple of playoff series in the same year, you will be correct.

Given the track record of this franchise I am not too worried. Also on my side is in today's NBA you build a team from the outside in, not the inside out.
Post #: 111
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 12:33:58 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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I'm not real excited about Rosas retaining Saunders but I am excited about the new front office people now running the show.

Appears we will finally be entering in to the modern era of how the game is being played.

Furthermore, Towns is absolutely a cornerstone player that can be built around.

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Post #: 112
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 12:36:46 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Also on my side is in today's NBA you build a team from the outside in, not the inside out.


That simply isn't true.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 113
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 12:46:30 PM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Also on my side is in today's NBA you build a team from the outside in, not the inside out.


That simply isn't true.


Curry has changed the way the game is played, its an outside in game now based on analytics. Durrant is basically Curry that happens to be seven feet tall. He game is based on the outside shot setting up everything else.

The Greek Freak is sitting at home. Embiib is sitting at home. Towns is sitting at home. Davis is sitting at home.

You don't build like that anymore.

We all get to see it play out over the next two years. At that point the opinions will be shown to be correct or incorrect.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 6/4/2019 12:48:19 PM >
Post #: 114
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 12:56:20 PM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Also on my side is in today's NBA you build a team from the outside in, not the inside out.


That simply isn't true.


Curry has changed the way the game is played, its an outside in game now based on analytics. Durrant is basically Curry that happens to be seven feet tall. He game is based on the outside shot setting up everything else.

The Greek Freak is sitting at home. Embiib is sitting at home. Towns is sitting at home. Davis is sitting at home.

You don't build like that anymore.

We all get to see it play out over the next two years. At that point the opinions will be shown to be correct or incorrect.


And yet you want to trade the best outside shooting big man in the game?

Towns is basically "better shooting Dirk, but also with a great post-up game". Dirk was 31 before he had a year shooting the 3 as well as KAT did in his 3rd season. And that was Dirk's career high. KAT already has 2 seasons shooting that Dirk could only reach 5 times in 21 years.

Career shooting:

Dirk: 47/38/88
KAT: 54/39/84

And KAT is still getting better. This year he shot 39% on 4.5/game before the ASB, and 43% on 5/game after.
Post #: 115
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 12:56:59 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Also on my side is in today's NBA you build a team from the outside in, not the inside out.


That simply isn't true.


Curry has changed the way the game is played, its an outside in game now based on analytics. Durrant is basically Curry that happens to be seven feet tall. He game is based on the outside shot setting up everything else.

The Greek Freak is sitting at home. Embiib is sitting at home. Towns is sitting at home. Davis is sitting at home.

You don't build like that anymore.

We all get to see it play out over the next two years. At that point the opinions will be shown to be correct or incorrect.


OK, I misunderstood what you were getting at completely. My bad.

Now that I know what you are getting at, Towns is an outstanding 3 pt shooter. In fact he shoots them at a slight higher clip than Durant. The issue is the difference in the supporting cast around Durant vs Towns. Put Towns in the middle of Curry, Thompson, Green, etc. playing in that system and he is probably still playing right now.

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Post #: 116
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 1:22:28 PM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I give up. There is so little rational to grab onto in that post that its just pointless to try.

Now you understand how it feels to be me.

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55% of Republicans think the Earth is 5,000 years old. All kinds of people believe all kinds of crazy things. You just gotta move on, man.

-James Carville - 12/15/20 - The Beat with Ari Melber
Post #: 117
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 1:35:21 PM   
ronhextall


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Wolves are not attracting Curry or Thompson and obviously nobody wants to come play with Towns so there you have it. Smack dab in the middle of nowhere.
Post #: 118
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 1:37:16 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Wolves are not attracting Curry or Thompson and obviously nobody wants to come play with Towns so there you have it. Smack dab in the middle of nowhere.

I'm guessing plenty of players would like to come here and play with Towns.

The problem lies with the salary cap mess Thibidou left us with.

_____________________________

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Post #: 119
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 1:40:42 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Wolves are not attracting Curry or Thompson and obviously nobody wants to come play with Towns so there you have it. Smack dab in the middle of nowhere.


You have no understanding of the salary cap or how contracts work in the NBA do you?
Post #: 120
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 2:16:26 PM   
ruffenach

 

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Some people lie to argue that black is white and white is the new black.
Post #: 121
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 2:20:11 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

Some people lie to argue that black is white and white is the new black.


I don't mind a good faith argument. I've had plenty of those here.

But when someone, who literally never posts about the team, comes in to shit on them when things finally look like they might be looking up is too far beyond the pale for me.
Post #: 122
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 2:50:42 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I give up. There is so little rational to grab onto in that post that its just pointless to try.

Now you understand how it feels to be me.


I don't know how to process that.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 123
RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 4:20:40 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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Milwaukee this year is an excellent example of what can be done here in flyover land, for those who say it's impossible. They're just one state over and the Twin Cities are a more desirable market in many ways.

Only difference is they're in the East which certainly helps, but still...

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C’mon man
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RE: 2019 Wolves offseason - 6/4/2019 8:30:15 PM   
Pauldiercks1

 

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I have always thought Towns is a bit of a pussy. When Butler was going nuts I wished he would have confronted him and told him "get off my court or we go." Let the team know he has some balls.
But that's not who he is and he is ultra talented. With the new front office and consistency at head coach I finally have some hope for bringing in the right players to help this team. As Towns matures, I think his defense will continue to improve and hopefully he toughens up some. That being said it's hard to fault a guy with so many great talents. It's very tough to find guys like him, I'd much rather trust the new bosses to build around him than move on from him. If that would be their vision I think they've already failed.

And yeah I'm mostly just a reader, I haven't posted for years. I'm probably less informed than many of you here.
David I always love your insights. Thanks for your contributions. lol I actually sent an employee that has worked for the Wolves since the beginning your take on Sekou. Won't make a difference but I did anyway. lol
Post #: 125
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