quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

This just in. Beating good teams is hard.

Most playoff teams get there by pounding bad teams and doing so-so at best against good teams. winning barely enough to get by.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

This just in. Beating good teams is hard.

Most playoff teams get there by pounding bad teams and doing so-so at best against good teams. winning barely enough to get by.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

This just in. Beating good teams is hard.

Most playoff teams get there by pounding bad teams and doing so-so at best against good teams. winning barely enough to get by.

The Vikings aren't there yet. We pound the bad teams and do very poor against good teams. We really just need to beat one or two good teams in a season and then we'd be a legit contender. So far the only season that happened was 2017.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

Stop it with your stupid facts getting in the way of the narrative, David! Sloter would make this team a winner (even though he's been on two teams since us, and hasn't started a game yet).

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

Stop it with your stupid facts getting in the way of the narrative, David! Sloter would make this team a winner (even though he's been on two teams since us, and hasn't started a game yet).

Sloter might not have made the Vikings a winner, but it sure would have been nice to see him instead of Mannion against the Bears. I guess that's too much to ask given all the value Mannion apparently adds during the week.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

So... we all know how wrong I have been about Kirk Cousins here?

BUT... what if Kirk Cousins comes out next Sunday with that scared look in his eye, that terrible grimmace looking grin on his face... Then shows a total inability to move the ball or get in any rhythm other than zero yard dump offs to Ham? That look we last saw so recently in the Packers game at home where totally soiled his Sleep Number bed right in front of all...

I know most of you will cry of our OL being garbage or terrible play calling...

BUT... what do we do going into 2020 season? Change coaching, GM, Draft, Free Agency? What do you do to change the narrative of Kirk and this team when it comes to big games under the bright lights?

You mean thinking Keenum is something other than a backup QB or bridge QB? I would literally be too embarrassed to post again if I had thought/posted that.

I'm still on the extend Cousins bandwagon (and draft a real developmental QB).

Cousins is on his 4th OC in 4 seasons. I'd really like to see this offense with some continuity, development and investment in a 3rd WR and a good offensive line.

And of course if Cousins continues to show he is the BIGGEST choker in the league in big games or any time he plays winning teams, those who covet his ways should be totally embarrased to be fans of a team held back by an albatross with a cap killing contract...

Extention? Bahhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa HA!


Cousins is an OC killer BTW, because of what he flashes in meaningless games and stats he pads in garbage time he looks the part of elite QBs yet no OC has harnessed that in real time when it matters in a game say on Monday night, or against a quality opponent, lets not even talk play offs... Maybe he just needs a system like Billy B or Andy fat boy's to take his game to the next level... Or maybe he is just really what he is, as the record shows...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

Stop it with your stupid facts getting in the way of the narrative, David! Sloter would make this team a winner (even though he's been on two teams since us, and hasn't started a game yet).

Sloter might not have made the Vikings a winner, but it sure would have been nice to see him instead of Mannion against the Bears. I guess that's too much to ask given all the value Mannion apparently adds during the week.

Bingo! Even with Cousins as our starter we need a guy we can develop. I'm not seeing what good Mannion brings to the table.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

Exactly, sort of like Stef rally win against the Broncs with a white board, or a couple wins going in his own direction for Flip before Zimms head exploded and he fired him... Just like Case going off the play sheet and causing Zimmer to lament wins... Guy is a control freak... AND in biggest games, when it matters MOST Zimmer pluts his total authorian stamp on the game... Then we play Zimmer ball... like how we began the season, and how we played the NFCCG and how we always play a big game in prime time, or against a winning opponent or top opponemts in division... Zimmer ball is a real thing, he admits it and what he expects from his team he leads with this philosophy...

Does it win games, yes against lesser opponents with coaches who play checkers, but when its a chess match, I dont think we can count on the mind of Mike Zimmer...

Sorry, its facts based on data of records he himself compiled... disputable?

DeFlip got fired because he liked 7 step drops with a sieve for a OLine.

DeFlip was the Jacksonville O-Coordinator this year. How did Zimmer sabotage that debacle?

This is where debates go sideways... I never said Flip was all that, only stated that he had far different visions for running an O than Zimmer and it was cause for his demise... Flip was never given a fair chance, sort of like that cluster F that we had with the Norv/ Shurm drama we all forget about and honestly thought we might see that some this year with the Kubiak Maffia and Step, but Step knows his boss and is a good yes man...

How Flip would have done things if allowed his total own way to run an O in MN will never be known... what he did with differing results elsewhere is irrelevent, Same goes for Case Keenum and his magic year, you cannot weigh seasons and systems against one another... BTW I was on record saying from start that hiring Flip and then going after Cousins was a huge mistake, Kirk did not fit Flips system, Case honestly would have much better, but we will never know now and honestly with Zimmer it likely would have all flames out anyways...

It really takes multiple elements within a team to gell along with talent all on same page and buying in. Great coaching is a big part but only one element. Teams that find success on a regular basis do have coaches who understand how to blend these elements with their own philosophy as well as totally trust in their subordants and not micro manage units but let theose coordinators work their magic and not derail or meddle with the results to a negative impact that Zimmer has in ways that were determental to the team chemistry and results...

You recently complained about Zimmer not getting with the different units coaches
to help them and now you're bitching that Zimmer micro-manages. Make up your
mind. Or do you just like to bitch and moan? Nevermind, I know the answer

I don't like it when Zimmer is stoic.
I don't like it when Zimmer's face gets all red.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

Exactly, sort of like Stef rally win against the Broncs with a white board, or a couple wins going in his own direction for Flip before Zimms head exploded and he fired him... Just like Case going off the play sheet and causing Zimmer to lament wins... Guy is a control freak... AND in biggest games, when it matters MOST Zimmer pluts his total authorian stamp on the game... Then we play Zimmer ball... like how we began the season, and how we played the NFCCG and how we always play a big game in prime time, or against a winning opponent or top opponemts in division... Zimmer ball is a real thing, he admits it and what he expects from his team he leads with this philosophy...

Does it win games, yes against lesser opponents with coaches who play checkers, but when its a chess match, I dont think we can count on the mind of Mike Zimmer...

Sorry, its facts based on data of records he himself compiled... disputable?

DeFlip got fired because he liked 7 step drops with a sieve for a OLine.

DeFlip was the Jacksonville O-Coordinator this year. How did Zimmer sabotage that debacle?

This is where debates go sideways... I never said Flip was all that, only stated that he had far different visions for running an O than Zimmer and it was cause for his demise... Flip was never given a fair chance, sort of like that cluster F that we had with the Norv/ Shurm drama we all forget about and honestly thought we might see that some this year with the Kubiak Maffia and Step, but Step knows his boss and is a good yes man...

How Flip would have done things if allowed his total own way to run an O in MN will never be known... what he did with differing results elsewhere is irrelevent, Same goes for Case Keenum and his magic year, you cannot weigh seasons and systems against one another... BTW I was on record saying from start that hiring Flip and then going after Cousins was a huge mistake, Kirk did not fit Flips system, Case honestly would have much better, but we will never know now and honestly with Zimmer it likely would have all flames out anyways...

It really takes multiple elements within a team to gell along with talent all on same page and buying in. Great coaching is a big part but only one element. Teams that find success on a regular basis do have coaches who understand how to blend these elements with their own philosophy as well as totally trust in their subordants and not micro manage units but let theose coordinators work their magic and not derail or meddle with the results to a negative impact that Zimmer has in ways that were determental to the team chemistry and results...

You recently complained about Zimmer not getting with the different units coaches
to help them and now you're bitching that Zimmer micro-manages. Make up your
mind. Or do you just like to bitch and moan? Nevermind, I know the answer

I don't like it when Zimmer is stoic.
I don't like it when Zimmer's face gets all red.

Exactly. It never ceases to amaze me how happy some people are to show
the world what a blithering idiot they are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Anyone hear if they decided on Antonio Brown yet?

Glazer said yesterday that they told him to show up ALONE.
He showed up with a couple agents, a film crew, and a couple trainers.
It wasn't going anywhere …. after he couldn't follow one simple direction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

Brees has a losing record against winning teams. So do most active QBs except Wilson, Brady, and I think Rothlisberger. Everyone else has similar win %s.

But I agree - I don't expect us to win, but I expect us to play with some poise and passion.

EDIT: Mahomes and Jackson have winning records with small sample size.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

There is no reason for ANY Vikings fan to have ANY optimism going forward. The entire organization needs a redo starting with the Wilf Brothers who are terrible owners. Sure, they have spent money, but those entrusted to finding and maintaining talent (and paying for the right talent) have entirely failed during their entire tenure as owners.

I won't be optimistic until we can get a coach in here that understands present day football as a minimum. Zimmer is as bad as they get in the NFL.

Interestingly, there are a few other teams that stress running the ball to open up the offense.
It's not just Zimmer. Sadly it appears that some teams seem to know when we are running
and when we are passing. Are we tipping our hand or just too predictable?

I was wondering this as well while watching the niners.

I think it stems both from being too predictable and vanilla in addition to having one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm a sucker for punishing myself so this weekend I want to watch the Vikings get killed sitting with Rags and CPA whilst drinking nothing but warm Verners ginger ale and eating under cooked bacon sandwiches on stale bread.

Back to the Vikes getting killed. We might lose by 30 or 40. To even have a chance we'd have to gamble heavily with blitzing and have it pay off. What I expect is an imbalance of fake blitzes vs real ones until we are to far behind. With that, and in general it seems, we leave way too much space to be exploited. 2nd stringers can do it...Brees is really good at it. The Saints won't play small ball and will aim to stack td's. It could be all time ugly.

I will take a miracle of course

At least you are going in prepared for the worst. The Vikings may surprise and make a game of it. It is critical that the Vikings get ahead and stay even through the first half. If they fall behind, it most certainly will get ugly. The Vikings are not equipped to play from behind.

The Defense and Offense have to be at the top of their game....The Saints will be fired up at home.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

Stop it with your stupid facts getting in the way of the narrative, David! Sloter would make this team a winner (even though he's been on two teams since us, and hasn't started a game yet).

Sloter might not have made the Vikings a winner, but it sure would have been nice to see him instead of Mannion against the Bears. I guess that's too much to ask given all the value Mannion apparently adds during the week.

Bingo! Even with Cousins as our starter we need a guy we can develop. I'm not seeing what good Mannion brings to the table.

Would have loved to see Sloter vs a quality defense.

Jacob Eason could be available in the late 1st. Not a huge fan of his albeit I've only seen him in limited action. I pray Tua drops somewhere that we can trade up for him. Other than that, give Mariota a chance but never liked him either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

So... we all know how wrong I have been about Kirk Cousins here?

BUT... what if Kirk Cousins comes out next Sunday with that scared look in his eye, that terrible grimmace looking grin on his face... Then shows a total inability to move the ball or get in any rhythm other than zero yard dump offs to Ham? That look we last saw so recently in the Packers game at home where totally soiled his Sleep Number bed right in front of all...

I know most of you will cry of our OL being garbage or terrible play calling...

BUT... what do we do going into 2020 season? Change coaching, GM, Draft, Free Agency? What do you do to change the narrative of Kirk and this team when it comes to big games under the bright lights?

You mean thinking Keenum is something other than a backup QB or bridge QB? I would literally be too embarrassed to post again if I had thought/posted that.

I'm still on the extend Cousins bandwagon (and draft a real developmental QB).

Cousins is on his 4th OC in 4 seasons. I'd really like to see this offense with some continuity, development and investment in a 3rd WR and a good offensive line.

And of course if Cousins continues to show he is the BIGGEST choker in the league in big games or any time he plays winning teams, those who covet his ways should be totally embarrased to be fans of a team held back by an albatross with a cap killing contract...

Extention? Bahhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa HA!


Cousins is an OC killer BTW, because of what he flashes in meaningless games and stats he pads in garbage time he looks the part of elite QBs yet no OC has harnessed that in real time when it matters in a game say on Monday night, or against a quality opponent, lets not even talk play offs... Maybe he just needs a system like Billy B or Andy fat boy's to take his game to the next level... Or maybe he is just really what he is, as the record shows...

Do you ever have an original thought and not regurgitate nonsense?

The only poster that brings less value is CPAMAN. Congrats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Oli Udoh flashed both in pass protection and in run blocking yesterday. Here's a few snaps of his at right tackle going up against Khalil Mack:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1211734416864743424

it would be huge if we could count on udoh at rt next season - o'neill at lt....

Personally I would bench Reiff and start Udoh for the playoffs. That's me. I mean, I figure we have to do something different than what we've been doing. On defense I would start Odenigbo ahead of Everson Griffen and i would play Kearse on nickel downs.

i agree that if the defense goes out there and just plays our straight up game we'll get hammered...especially with all the zone we've been playing this season...we need to change some things - shorten the time brees has in the pocket - be more physical....

ONeil would need more than two weeks to make the switch back to LT.

I would LOVE to see something innovative. Like Thomas doubled with two physical guys. Rhodes to disrupt him at the line and Kearse over the top.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

Stop it with your stupid facts getting in the way of the narrative, David! Sloter would make this team a winner (even though he's been on two teams since us, and hasn't started a game yet).

Sloter might not have made the Vikings a winner, but it sure would have been nice to see him instead of Mannion against the Bears. I guess that's too much to ask given all the value Mannion apparently adds during the week.

Bingo! Even with Cousins as our starter we need a guy we can develop. I'm not seeing what good Mannion brings to the table.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

There is no reason for ANY Vikings fan to have ANY optimism going forward. The entire organization needs a redo starting with the Wilf Brothers who are terrible owners. Sure, they have spent money, but those entrusted to finding and maintaining talent (and paying for the right talent) have entirely failed during their entire tenure as owners.

I won't be optimistic until we can get a coach in here that understands present day football as a minimum. Zimmer is as bad as they get in the NFL.

Interestingly, there are a few other teams that stress running the ball to open up the offense.
It's not just Zimmer. Sadly it appears that some teams seem to know when we are running
and when we are passing. Are we tipping our hand or just too predictable?

I was wondering this as well while watching the niners.

I think it stems both from being too predictable and vanilla in addition to having one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.

So, you think it's just a predictability issue and not that we're tipping our hand?
I was hoping that we were tipping our hand and someone on the coaching staff
could figure out how we are showing the defense what we are going to do.
Unfortunately, it seems that predictable coaches tend to stay predictable, so,
I hope that you're wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

Exactly, sort of like Stef rally win against the Broncs with a white board, or a couple wins going in his own direction for Flip before Zimms head exploded and he fired him... Just like Case going off the play sheet and causing Zimmer to lament wins... Guy is a control freak... AND in biggest games, when it matters MOST Zimmer pluts his total authorian stamp on the game... Then we play Zimmer ball... like how we began the season, and how we played the NFCCG and how we always play a big game in prime time, or against a winning opponent or top opponemts in division... Zimmer ball is a real thing, he admits it and what he expects from his team he leads with this philosophy...

Does it win games, yes against lesser opponents with coaches who play checkers, but when its a chess match, I dont think we can count on the mind of Mike Zimmer...

Sorry, its facts based on data of records he himself compiled... disputable?

DeFlip got fired because he liked 7 step drops with a sieve for a OLine.

DeFlip was the Jacksonville O-Coordinator this year. How did Zimmer sabotage that debacle?

This is where debates go sideways... I never said Flip was all that, only stated that he had far different visions for running an O than Zimmer and it was cause for his demise... Flip was never given a fair chance, sort of like that cluster F that we had with the Norv/ Shurm drama we all forget about and honestly thought we might see that some this year with the Kubiak Maffia and Step, but Step knows his boss and is a good yes man...

How Flip would have done things if allowed his total own way to run an O in MN will never be known... what he did with differing results elsewhere is irrelevent, Same goes for Case Keenum and his magic year, you cannot weigh seasons and systems against one another... BTW I was on record saying from start that hiring Flip and then going after Cousins was a huge mistake, Kirk did not fit Flips system, Case honestly would have much better, but we will never know now and honestly with Zimmer it likely would have all flames out anyways...

It really takes multiple elements within a team to gell along with talent all on same page and buying in. Great coaching is a big part but only one element. Teams that find success on a regular basis do have coaches who understand how to blend these elements with their own philosophy as well as totally trust in their subordants and not micro manage units but let theose coordinators work their magic and not derail or meddle with the results to a negative impact that Zimmer has in ways that were determental to the team chemistry and results...

You recently complained about Zimmer not getting with the different units coaches
to help them and now you're bitching that Zimmer micro-manages. Make up your
mind. Or do you just like to bitch and moan? Nevermind, I know the answer

I don't like it when Zimmer is stoic.
I don't like it when Zimmer's face gets all red.

Exactly. It never ceases to amaze me how happy some people are to show
the world what a blithering idiot they are.

Dont you think calling Zimmer a blithering idiot is a bit harsh?

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There is no reason for ANY Vikings fan to have ANY optimism going forward. The entire organization needs a redo starting with the Wilf Brothers who are terrible owners. Sure, they have spent money, but those entrusted to finding and maintaining talent (and paying for the right talent) have entirely failed during their entire tenure as owners.

I won't be optimistic until we can get a coach in here that understands present day football as a minimum. Zimmer is as bad as they get in the NFL.

Interestingly, there are a few other teams that stress running the ball to open up the offense.
It's not just Zimmer. Sadly it appears that some teams seem to know when we are running
and when we are passing. Are we tipping our hand or just too predictable?

I was wondering this as well while watching the niners.

I think it stems both from being too predictable and vanilla in addition to having one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.

So, you think it's just a predictability issue and not that we're tipping our hand?
I was hoping that we were tipping our hand and someone on the coaching staff
could figure out how we are showing the defense what we are going to do.
Unfortunately, it seems that predictable coaches tend to stay predictable, so,
I hope that you're wrong.

Having a vanilla playbook is essentially a form of tipping off your play strategy. But Zimmer is apparently too slow to realize this fact.

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Oli Udoh flashed both in pass protection and in run blocking yesterday. Here's a few snaps of his at right tackle going up against Khalil Mack:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1211734416864743424

it would be huge if we could count on udoh at rt next season - o'neill at lt....

Personally I would bench Reiff and start Udoh for the playoffs. That's me. I mean, I figure we have to do something different than what we've been doing. On defense I would start Odenigbo ahead of Everson Griffen and i would play Kearse on nickel downs.

i agree that if the defense goes out there and just plays our straight up game we'll get hammered...especially with all the zone we've been playing this season...we need to change some things - shorten the time brees has in the pocket - be more physical....

ONeil would need more than two weeks to make the switch back to LT.

I would LOVE to see something innovative. Like Thomas doubled with two physical guys. Rhodes to disrupt him at the line and Kearse over the top.

I would love to know why when playing against teams that base their offense
on quick short timing routes, we never seem to try and bump their receivers
off the line to disrupt them.

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And all of those Qbs, even Stafford have won a Monday night game, they all can beat a team with a winning record and even have a shot at going deeper into the play offs with a good supporting cast...

Stafford is 0-3 in the Playoffs.

As far as QBs beating teams with winning records:

As of Sept 26, 2019:


CP@ChristianPina

Since 2012, Aaron Rodgers is 7-24 vs +.500 teams

Kirk Cousins: 5-24 record against winning teams in his career.

Matthew Stafford career vs winning teams: 9-54

The more ya know.

Stop it with your stupid facts getting in the way of the narrative, David! Sloter would make this team a winner (even though he's been on two teams since us, and hasn't started a game yet).

Sloter might not have made the Vikings a winner, but it sure would have been nice to see him instead of Mannion against the Bears. I guess that's too much to ask given all the value Mannion apparently adds during the week.

Bingo! Even with Cousins as our starter we need a guy we can develop. I'm not seeing what good Mannion brings to the table.

Would have loved to see Sloter vs a quality defense.

Jacob Eason could be available in the late 1st. Not a huge fan of his albeit I've only seen him in limited action. I pray Tua drops somewhere that we can trade up for him. Other than that, give Mariota a chance but never liked him either.