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RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/16/2020 12:58:39 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

yes agree good chance GS may look at him.
So We take him #1. Thoughts on how he would fit with the Wolves?


The idealized version of Wiseman would be an excellent fit. Defending, rebounding, rim running. The negative would be that neither KAT or Wiseman (very small sample size) have shown any ability to defend in space.

Another possible version of Wiseman is a low BBIQ turnover machine that rebounds as poorly as he did in AAU and FIBA.

And the downside of missing on a big is that mediocre bigs have no trade value. A wing/guard everyone thought would be good will get two or three chances to fail.
Post #: 251
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/16/2020 2:52:29 PM   
Elliot


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My sense, given this years draft, is that the due diligence aspects need to more deeply evaluate the mental aspects of the players. It's really rare, even for the most talented amateurs, that they can be much more than average players in the NBA without improvement. So, you have to determine their drive and work effort to be coached and become better.

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While you're busy making other plans

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Post #: 252
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/16/2020 7:37:10 PM   
Steve Lentz


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Still convinced that they trade the draft choice.

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" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 253
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/17/2020 9:42:46 AM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

What do you guys think of Isaac Okoro?


I really want to like him, but I worry he's in the mold of Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Josh Jackson, etc. "Power wings" that can't shoot. Bad 3PT shooting, bad FT shooting, bad rebounding, not a great athlete. I don't think he's #6 pick worthy.

I'd much rather take Okongwum Vassell or Hayes.

I also don't buy that Atlanta would move Collins in the deal. I think Hunter or Reddish are more realistic.

Collins would fit Rosas' vision though. He'd add another shooter around KAT and he'd help with rebounding, but I don't see any way we're not a bottom 3 defense.

I would love to get Collins and we will probably have to give up the 1 and no picks back for him. Now that Morey is out how realistic is it to think we could land Hardin in a rebuild?


That's way too much to give up for just Collins.

I agree that it is too much for him, but there would have to be other pieces involved in the trade. Just the two major pieces.
Post #: 254
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/17/2020 12:05:42 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

What do you guys think of Isaac Okoro?


I really want to like him, but I worry he's in the mold of Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Josh Jackson, etc. "Power wings" that can't shoot. Bad 3PT shooting, bad FT shooting, bad rebounding, not a great athlete. I don't think he's #6 pick worthy.

I'd much rather take Okongwum Vassell or Hayes.

I also don't buy that Atlanta would move Collins in the deal. I think Hunter or Reddish are more realistic.

Collins would fit Rosas' vision though. He'd add another shooter around KAT and he'd help with rebounding, but I don't see any way we're not a bottom 3 defense.

I would love to get Collins and we will probably have to give up the 1 and no picks back for him. Now that Morey is out how realistic is it to think we could land Hardin in a rebuild?


That's way too much to give up for just Collins.

I agree that it is too much for him, but there would have to be other pieces involved in the trade. Just the two major pieces.


Like the #6 pick...
Post #: 255
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/20/2020 7:40:29 AM   
ruffenach

 

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What players are the Wolves bringing in for workouts and what information will be available to the media?
Post #: 256
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/20/2020 11:20:23 AM   
ronhextall


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I would shop Kat.

Butler was right.

Kat is an excellent player but he is never going to lead the team to anything, when a potential leader was brought in Kat didn't buy in.

Kat might be a good teammate for somebody like Lebron who has rings and can back up his talk of defense and playing hard.

Kat is never going to "get it". Never.
Post #: 257
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/22/2020 10:08:37 AM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would shop Kat.

Butler was right.

Kat is an excellent player but he is never going to lead the team to anything, when a potential leader was brought in Kat didn't buy in.

Kat might be a good teammate for somebody like Lebron who has rings and can back up his talk of defense and playing hard.

Kat is never going to "get it". Never.

I strongly disagree with you. Jimmy was a cancer and a me first guy. He cancered his way out of three teams and the Heat allowed him to be their main man. zIt is call throwing a tantrum until you get your way.
Post #: 258
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/22/2020 10:23:36 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would shop Kat.

Butler was right.

Kat is an excellent player but he is never going to lead the team to anything, when a potential leader was brought in Kat didn't buy in.

Kat might be a good teammate for somebody like Lebron who has rings and can back up his talk of defense and playing hard.

Kat is never going to "get it". Never.

I strongly disagree with you. Jimmy was a cancer and a me first guy. He cancered his way out of three teams and the Heat allowed him to be their main man. zIt is call throwing a tantrum until you get your way.


Jimmy went about things poorly, but he wasn't wrong...
Post #: 259
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/22/2020 6:15:42 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would shop Kat.

Butler was right.

Kat is an excellent player but he is never going to lead the team to anything, when a potential leader was brought in Kat didn't buy in.

Kat might be a good teammate for somebody like Lebron who has rings and can back up his talk of defense and playing hard.

Kat is never going to "get it". Never.

I strongly disagree with you. Jimmy was a cancer and a me first guy. He cancered his way out of three teams and the Heat allowed him to be their main man. zIt is call throwing a tantrum until you get your way.


I don't disagree with your assessment of Butler, but the Wolves made their only playoff appearance in recent history with him. And he carried Miami to the finals and almost to a championship.

Jimmy is one of those players where a team has to decide whether or not to make a deal with the devil. You will almost certainly have success. But the team will be fundamentally changed. It will take on a whole new character. The Jimmy 3 Ring Circus. Everything has to be done Jimmy's way.

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 10/23/2020 5:35:04 PM >


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Post #: 260
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/23/2020 11:10:47 PM   
Pauldiercks1

 

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Thoughts on Taking Deni Avdija #1?

If we take a player, I think he might be the guy I’d take.
Been looking at him for awhile and he now seems to be getting some hype also.
Ball I don’t think is going to be happy with the Wolves nor will he fit. The other two top choices have definite issues/concerns.
Post #: 261
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/24/2020 1:51:31 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Thoughts on Taking Deni Avdija #1?

If we take a player, I think he might be the guy I’d take.
Been looking at him for awhile and he now seems to be getting some hype also.
Ball I don’t think is going to be happy with the Wolves nor will he fit. The other two top choices have definite issues/concerns.


I’m not a fan. He can do a little of everything, but nothing at an exceptional level.

He’s probably a nice complimentary guy on a loaded team.
Post #: 262
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/24/2020 2:43:33 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

Saw this today

Timberwolves Could Send #1 Pick to Hawks and Win Big
Posted on October 14, 2020 by CooperCarlson


With the NBA season officially over and the draft roughly a month away, trade rumors are going to heat up. At the center of all these rumors will be the Minnesota Timberwolves, who hold a bunch of tradeable assets. These assets include the #1 pick, #17 pick, #33 pick, Jarrett Culver, Josh Okogie, and more.

One team that seems very interested in making a push for the #1 pick is the Atlanta Hawks. If the two teams get together for a trade, there is one scenario I like for both teams.

In this scenario the Wolves acquire power forward John Collins and the #6 overall pick for Jacob Evans and the #1 pick.
Player G/GS PTS REB AST FG% 3P% BLK
John Collins (PF) 41 21.6 10.1 1.5 58.3 40.1 1.6
via espn

Minnesota Timberwolves reasoning:

John Collins is a power forward who averaged 20+ points and 10+ rebounds per game last season, while shooting 40% from the three point line. He is a great young player who will become a restricted free agent after this upcoming season.

There’s no clear #1 “save your franchise” type player (so we think) in the 2020 draft and Rosas seems destined to trade the top pick because of it. Acquiring Collins and only having to drop 5 spots (#6) in the draft, would have to be considered a homerun move. At #6, the Wolves could still get a solid prospect like Isaac Okoro, who wants to come to Minnesota.


Atlanta Hawks reasoning:

Atlanta has reportedly been hesitant to pay Collins big money and they one of the most mentioned teams inside NBA hot stove conversations. A lot of this trade would depend on whether or not the Hawks truly believe they can acquire a franchise-changing player with the first overall pick.

If the Hawks are ready to deal, we know Gersson Rosas will pick up the phone.

What do you guys think of Isaac Okoro?

I would do one and Evans for Collins and 6 in a heartbeat. I don't mind that Collins has a payday coming. We would have the right to match. Anthony Edwards is from Atlanta or the area.

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Post #: 263
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/24/2020 9:36:52 PM   
Pauldiercks1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Thoughts on Taking Deni Avdija #1?

If we take a player, I think he might be the guy I’d take.
Been looking at him for awhile and he now seems to be getting some hype also.
Ball I don’t think is going to be happy with the Wolves nor will he fit. The other two top choices have definite issues/concerns.


I’m not a fan. He can do a little of everything, but nothing at an exceptional level.

He’s probably a nice complimentary guy on a loaded team.


Ok thanks for the input and opinion, it’s appreciated.
Maybe I’m just trying too hard to see what’s not there. I really hope a positive trade presents itself.
Post #: 264
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/24/2020 10:09:21 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Thoughts on Taking Deni Avdija #1?

If we take a player, I think he might be the guy I’d take.
Been looking at him for awhile and he now seems to be getting some hype also.
Ball I don’t think is going to be happy with the Wolves nor will he fit. The other two top choices have definite issues/concerns.


I’m not a fan. He can do a little of everything, but nothing at an exceptional level.

He’s probably a nice complimentary guy on a loaded team.


Ok thanks for the input and opinion, it’s appreciated.
Maybe I’m just trying too hard to see what’s not there. I really hope a positive trade presents itself.


Dean can sometimes get a little up his own ass, but he has a pretty solid reputation as being one of the better draft guys. I think his recent take on Avdija is a pretty good read:

https://deanondraft.com/2020/09/28/how-good-is-deni-avdija/
Post #: 265
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/27/2020 9:45:52 AM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would shop Kat.

Butler was right.

Kat is an excellent player but he is never going to lead the team to anything, when a potential leader was brought in Kat didn't buy in.

Kat might be a good teammate for somebody like Lebron who has rings and can back up his talk of defense and playing hard.

Kat is never going to "get it". Never.

I strongly disagree with you. Jimmy was a cancer and a me first guy. He cancered his way out of three teams and the Heat allowed him to be their main man. zIt is call throwing a tantrum until you get your way.


I don't disagree with your assessment of Butler, but the Wolves made their only playoff appearance in recent history with him. And he carried Miami to the finals and almost to a championship.

Jimmy is one of those players where a team has to decide whether or not to make a deal with the devil. You will almost certainly have success. But the team will be fundamentally changed. It will take on a whole new character. The Jimmy 3 Ring Circus. Everything has to be done Jimmy's way.

With Jimmy it's always a question of who is running the team, Jimmy or the POBO/Coach. He thinks he is the next Bron. Is he good or his he lucky? Thibs lost the locker room and only Butler agreed with him and only When he could be the assh*** to his teammates.
Post #: 266
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/29/2020 8:51:16 AM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would shop Kat.

Butler was right.

Kat is an excellent player but he is never going to lead the team to anything, when a potential leader was brought in Kat didn't buy in.

Kat might be a good teammate for somebody like Lebron who has rings and can back up his talk of defense and playing hard.

Kat is never going to "get it". Never.

I strongly disagree with you. Jimmy was a cancer and a me first guy. He cancered his way out of three teams and the Heat allowed him to be their main man. zIt is call throwing a tantrum until you get your way.


I can see that side of the argument also.

Time will tell, the organization will get to decide how many years of KAT not give a crap about defense they will withstand.

My guess is KAT eventually will want out, go chase a ring on a team wear he is a #2 or #3. He isn't a #1, not even close.
Post #: 267
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/30/2020 12:35:09 PM   
David Levine


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Not sure I want any of the "Big 3".

Maybe a trade down with CHO for an additional asset and then another trade down in the 6-8 range for a team that really wants whoever is left of Ball or Edwards for another asset.

Turn the #1 pick into Okongwu or Hayes plus a couple players and/or future picks.
Post #: 268
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 11/1/2020 11:34:23 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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The Sixers have one first-round pick and four second-round picks at their disposal. They can package two second-rounders and move up to late in the first round. Or they can package their own #1 pick with second-rounders, and toss Ben Simmons (16.4 ppg, 8.0 assists, 7.8 rebounds) in the deal.

The question is, will the Timberwolves be dumb enough to bite on the Simmons trade and take a huge liability off the Sixers’ hands?


Doesn't appear Simmons has that much value after all?

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 11/1/2020 11:35:46 AM >


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Post #: 269
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 11/1/2020 12:30:16 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

The Sixers have one first-round pick and four second-round picks at their disposal. They can package two second-rounders and move up to late in the first round. Or they can package their own #1 pick with second-rounders, and toss Ben Simmons (16.4 ppg, 8.0 assists, 7.8 rebounds) in the deal.

The question is, will the Timberwolves be dumb enough to bite on the Simmons trade and take a huge liability off the Sixers’ hands?


Doesn't appear Simmons has that much value after all?


Sounds like a disgruntled fan post.
Post #: 270
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 11/1/2020 4:27:40 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

The Sixers have one first-round pick and four second-round picks at their disposal. They can package two second-rounders and move up to late in the first round. Or they can package their own #1 pick with second-rounders, and toss Ben Simmons (16.4 ppg, 8.0 assists, 7.8 rebounds) in the deal.

The question is, will the Timberwolves be dumb enough to bite on the Simmons trade and take a huge liability off the Sixers’ hands?


Doesn't appear Simmons has that much value after all?


Sounds like a disgruntled fan post.

Could be. Clip also railed hard on Simmons shooting %. Think his 3pt % is like 8

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 271
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 11/2/2020 10:39:26 AM   
David Levine


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Canis has a very thorough breakdown of Simmons today:

https://www.canishoopus.com/2020/11/2/21501910/offseason-targets-part-iv-ben-simmons-nba
Post #: 272
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 11/2/2020 11:40:41 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

The Sixers have one first-round pick and four second-round picks at their disposal. They can package two second-rounders and move up to late in the first round. Or they can package their own #1 pick with second-rounders, and toss Ben Simmons (16.4 ppg, 8.0 assists, 7.8 rebounds) in the deal.

The question is, will the Timberwolves be dumb enough to bite on the Simmons trade and take a huge liability off the Sixers’ hands?


Doesn't appear Simmons has that much value after all?


Sounds like a disgruntled fan post.

Could be. Clip also railed hard on Simmons shooting %. Think his 3pt % is like 8



Nope.

8.3
Post #: 273
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 11/2/2020 11:48:05 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 70437
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

The Sixers have one first-round pick and four second-round picks at their disposal. They can package two second-rounders and move up to late in the first round. Or they can package their own #1 pick with second-rounders, and toss Ben Simmons (16.4 ppg, 8.0 assists, 7.8 rebounds) in the deal.

The question is, will the Timberwolves be dumb enough to bite on the Simmons trade and take a huge liability off the Sixers’ hands?


Doesn't appear Simmons has that much value after all?


Sounds like a disgruntled fan post.

Could be. Clip also railed hard on Simmons shooting %. Think his 3pt % is like 8



Nope.

8.3


He's attempted 24 in 3 years.

If we want to play the "minuscule sample game", he actually hit 29% last year - which is a massive improvement.

Fortunately, not shooting 3s doesn't hurt him. No perimeter player gets to the basket more than Simmons - and that's with Embiid always clogging the lane.
Post #: 274
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 11/2/2020 4:28:25 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 15943
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Canis has a very thorough breakdown of Simmons today:

https://www.canishoopus.com/2020/11/2/21501910/offseason-targets-part-iv-ben-simmons-nba

Good read.

Would we really have to give up that much for Simmons?

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 275
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