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RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/16/2020 4:53:34 PM   
David Levine


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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Easier this way. 2019-20 season:

Euroleague: 26 Games. 14.3 MPG, 4.0 PPG (53/35/59), 4.7 RPG, 2.0 APG.
Israeli BSL: 33 Games. 27.6 MPG, 12.9 PPG (44/28/56), 2.6 RPG, 1.2 APG.

I think he's going to be a very good complimentary guy. For a winning team, he probably scores 8 points, but makes a bunch of little plays that many fans don't even notice. I don't think he does anything well enough to be a star.

My guess is people want him to be Luka, but I think his ceiling is closer to a combo of Spurs-era Boris Diaw and Dario Saric.


Top 8 draft choice?


He'll go Top 4. Some GM is going to be terrified of passing on the "next Luka", and its a lousy top of the draft.

I could even see him going at #2 because GS could really use a complimentary player for one more run with Curry, Klay and Draymond.
Post #: 201
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/16/2020 5:21:03 PM   
Steve Lentz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Easier this way. 2019-20 season:

Euroleague: 26 Games. 14.3 MPG, 4.0 PPG (53/35/59), 4.7 RPG, 2.0 APG.
Israeli BSL: 33 Games. 27.6 MPG, 12.9 PPG (44/28/56), 2.6 RPG, 1.2 APG.

I think he's going to be a very good complimentary guy. For a winning team, he probably scores 8 points, but makes a bunch of little plays that many fans don't even notice. I don't think he does anything well enough to be a star.

My guess is people want him to be Luka, but I think his ceiling is closer to a combo of Spurs-era Boris Diaw and Dario Saric.


Top 8 draft choice?


He'll go Top 4. Some GM is going to be terrified of passing on the "next Luka", and its a lousy top of the draft.

I could even see him going at #2 because GS could really use a complimentary player for one more run with Curry, Klay and Draymond.

I 'm hoping we find a way to get him. I'm convinced though we trade our #1 pick.

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Post #: 202
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/16/2020 5:44:57 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Easier this way. 2019-20 season:

Euroleague: 26 Games. 14.3 MPG, 4.0 PPG (53/35/59), 4.7 RPG, 2.0 APG.
Israeli BSL: 33 Games. 27.6 MPG, 12.9 PPG (44/28/56), 2.6 RPG, 1.2 APG.

I think he's going to be a very good complimentary guy. For a winning team, he probably scores 8 points, but makes a bunch of little plays that many fans don't even notice. I don't think he does anything well enough to be a star.

My guess is people want him to be Luka, but I think his ceiling is closer to a combo of Spurs-era Boris Diaw and Dario Saric.

My hunch is he's far more significant than DL thinks. If we draft him he will be our secondary ball handler and score 12 or more points a game. Not his rookie year, but sooner rather than later. He will give us some good defense including shot blocking also.

_____________________________

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So let it be done."
Post #: 203
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/17/2020 10:12:31 AM   
Elliot


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From: North Highland Beach, NJ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Easier this way. 2019-20 season:

Euroleague: 26 Games. 14.3 MPG, 4.0 PPG (53/35/59), 4.7 RPG, 2.0 APG.
Israeli BSL: 33 Games. 27.6 MPG, 12.9 PPG (44/28/56), 2.6 RPG, 1.2 APG.

I think he's going to be a very good complimentary guy. For a winning team, he probably scores 8 points, but makes a bunch of little plays that many fans don't even notice. I don't think he does anything well enough to be a star.

My guess is people want him to be Luka, but I think his ceiling is closer to a combo of Spurs-era Boris Diaw and Dario Saric.


Top 8 draft choice?


He'll go Top 4. Some GM is going to be terrified of passing on the "next Luka", and its a lousy top of the draft.

I could even see him going at #2 because GS could really use a complimentary player for one more run with Curry, Klay and Draymond.


Maybe as a replacement for Shaun Livingston. Seems like there might be some similarities there.

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While you're busy making other plans

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Post #: 204
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/17/2020 11:07:51 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Easier this way. 2019-20 season:

Euroleague: 26 Games. 14.3 MPG, 4.0 PPG (53/35/59), 4.7 RPG, 2.0 APG.
Israeli BSL: 33 Games. 27.6 MPG, 12.9 PPG (44/28/56), 2.6 RPG, 1.2 APG.

I think he's going to be a very good complimentary guy. For a winning team, he probably scores 8 points, but makes a bunch of little plays that many fans don't even notice. I don't think he does anything well enough to be a star.

My guess is people want him to be Luka, but I think his ceiling is closer to a combo of Spurs-era Boris Diaw and Dario Saric.


Top 8 draft choice?


He'll go Top 4. Some GM is going to be terrified of passing on the "next Luka", and its a lousy top of the draft.

I could even see him going at #2 because GS could really use a complimentary player for one more run with Curry, Klay and Draymond.


Maybe as a replacement for Shaun Livingston. Seems like there might be some similarities there.


Yeah.

He does make a ton of sense for GS.

More ready to play now than guys like Edwards or Ball. Wiseman would require a stylistic change.

Deni can come in, move the ball and just support the stars.

That's why I said he's better off going to a good team. He can just blend in and not have those high expectations. On a shitty team like the Wolves, he'd be much more exposed. He might score more points, but I doubt it would lead to many more wins.
Post #: 205
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/21/2020 5:58:02 PM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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An interesting post from Canis today:

I thought I would share an experience I had today.

I make videos for Best Buy for a living.

We have an internal video series called "Think Blue" where we interview experts from other industries.

Today, I was supposed to "direct" a Zoom interview with Gersson Rosas as part of the series.

When the interviewer had a last-minute conflict, I was asked to step in, as everyone knows what a big Wolves fan I am.

I had helped develop some of the questions ahead of time, so it wasn’t a huge leap to step into that role.

Gersson was, of course, as impressive as one would anticipate.

Long, eloquent answers to questions on culture, diversity, social justice.

Now that I was host, though, I was able to squeeze in a couple of questions of my choosing.

One was asking the following.

"When it comes to drafting players, how much do you value taking home run swings, versus making sure you don’t strike out? Is it more important to have a predictable range of outcomes when you spend your draft capital, or do you accept volatility in outcomes if it means higher potential upside?"

In his answer, Gersson definitely came down on the side of the draft being a place exclusively for home run swings. He views trades and free agency as the place you fill needs with predictable outcomes, and the draft as the place where you accept volatility for the sake of high upside return.

That answer made me feel that he’s not going to be at all afraid of drafting Ball, despite the wide range of possible outcomes.

I also think it indicates that he’s unlikely to trade down and draft a "safe" player like Devin Vassell.

I managed to end the interview this way.

"Finally, I know you’re not going to tell me who you’re leaning towards taking with the #1 pick. So, just blink once if it’s LaMelo Ball, twice if it’s Anthony Edwards, or if you’re going to trade down to the 4-6 range, draft Killian Hayes, and get a 2021 first round pick in return, don’t do anything."

He was very amused and started laughing at that ending.

If that’s what happens, I’m going to say I won him over.

Anyway, I thought I’d share, for what it’s worth.

Posted by HumdingerTV on Sep 21, 2020 | 2:52 PM
Post #: 206
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/23/2020 11:34:48 AM   
David Levine


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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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Operating with unprecedented offensive freedom for an 18-year old playing professionally overseas last season, Ball used over half of his possessions in pick and roll and isolation situations while also ranking among the NBL’s top players in assists in transition and out of ball screens. Establishing himself as a prolific shot creator, Ball’s size, ability to zip passes to shooters with both hands, natural feel for getting to spots changing speeds in the half court, and vision in the open floor stood out last season. Given his relative lack of experience, his 2.8 assist-to-turnover ratio is evidence of just how brightly his talent as a passer shines.

https://stats.nba.com/articles/2020-nba-draft-profile-lamelo-ball/
Post #: 207
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/23/2020 11:42:10 AM   
David Levine


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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
aMelo's résumé is wide but thin: two high school seasons, eight games in Lithuania, one season for Jackson at Spire Institute in Ohio, a scattering of games in off-the-grid American leagues (the Drew League in Los Angeles, LaVar's short-lived Junior Basketball Association, which opened and closed in one season) and, finally, the 12 games in Australia. His game, like his personality, is difficult to classify. The ballhandling is tight, innovative, a language all its own. The ball becomes just another appendage. His most praised attribute is his vision, but that analysis is both lazy and wrong. It's his ability to sense things he can't see that separates. In Australia, the Hawks' big men learned to be hyperaware coming out of pick-and-rolls; Ball routinely dribbled toward the elbow and threaded high-velocity passes at them with his eyes pointed at the sideline.

At times he appears to be operating with some human form of echolocation, rarely looking at his target. In the game against Adelaide, facing the guy Flinn said couldn't stay with him, he retrieved a sloppy pass on the left sideline, above the hash, about 40 feet from the hoop. He ran his defender into a pick at the top of the key, split a double-team with a behind-the-back dribble and, in one motion, swung the ball back to his right hand and dropped a behind-the-back pass to the cutter for a dunk.

A scout who watched Ball for three years, from Lithuania through Australia, told Flinn, "I've never seen him this happy. Normally he's mopey and whiny, but now I see a happy kid who is joking with his teammates. I've never seen that before."

LaMelo spoke to his mom after he woke up every morning and before he went to bed every night. He texted with Lonzo and LiAngelo every day, and after accusations of laziness from teammates in Lithuania, he listened when Lonzo told him, "You have no choice but to be a pro. If you don't show up, they're not going to call your phone and say, 'Hey, where are you?' Being a pro is 24/7."

A bone bruise in his foot cut his season to only 12 games, but during that run, LaMelo averaged 17.0 points, 6.8 assists and 7.6 rebounds. He had triple-doubles in each of his last two games. There were moments of transcendence, when he used his length and handle to break down two or three of the everyone-else-in-the-worlds and finished at the rim. Twelve games is all, but he was named the NBL Rookie of the Year. Way back in September, an NBA executive told ESPN, "He completely changed my perception of the type of prospect he is, and all of the background info I gathered here from his coaches and teammates paint a very different story of what I thought about him off the court as well."

--------

IT WAS ALWAYS assumed he was playing for something other than love for the game, that basketball was simply a vehicle to gain Instagram followers or sell shoes or provide his father with a wider platform.

But all along, LaMelo Ball has kept playing, orbiting the basketball world but never landing, going about the lonely business of getting better. On a warm July afternoon in a mostly empty gym in suburban Detroit, LaMelo, LiAngelo and Jackson go through shooting drills, work on breaking double-teams, simulate pick-and-roll situations. All fundamental, nuts-and-bolts stuff, and then during a break LaMelo stands near the top of the key, bounces the ball toward the hoop and throws down a dunk. It's filmed, of course, and posted to LaMelo's Instagram, and within 24 hours it has been viewed more than 4 million times.

"When I hear those mystery questions, I'm like, 'Come and see,'" Jackson says. "We were told a lot of NBA scouts were saying they weren't coming to Australia. And then all of a sudden they were in Australia, because they know basketball and what they see on film is like, 'That's not normal.'

"Everything this kid's been through, a lot of 18-year-olds would have quit, gone on a different path, found an excuse. Instead he smiled and laughed and walked right through it."

All great players, in some form or fashion, use basketball as a gateway to greater fame. LaMelo might be the first to run that equation in reverse. "I feel like one of a kind, the first one to take this whole route I did," LaMelo says. "I definitely feel like I'm a trailblazer."

www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/29687839/the-mystery-lamelo-ball
Post #: 208
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/28/2020 12:44:11 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
Bleacher Report, grain of salt, yadda, yadda, yadda:

Buzz: Minnesota Timberwolves not sold on any prospect, expected to try and trade down

According to a Western Conference executive, word around the league is Minnesota isn't leaning one way at No. 1, sounds "confused" and feels pressure after "messing up last year by trading for Jarrett Culver."

The belief is that Minnesota's priority is to trade, realistically down the board assuming an established star won't become available. If the Wolves stick at No. 1, multiple sources say they'd bet on LaMelo Ball having the edge over Anthony Edwards.

Rival scouts have mentioned fit issues with Ball in Minnesota, specifically his ability to play alongside other ball-dominant players and whether a team's defense featuring Ball, D'Angelo Russell and Karl-Anthony Towns has any chance in a seven-game series against Western Conference opponents.

But Ball also has a chunk of support as the draft's top overall prospect, and with president of basketball operations Gersson Rosas still unsure about the makeup of his team (Russell and Towns have played one game together), fit might not factor into Minnesota's decision.

On the other hand, there are trade-down targets who do fit the roster on paper, including Deni Avdija, Isaac Okoro, Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell and Patrick Williams. Rosas could even make a case for Obi Toppin if he was willing to go all-in with offense.

Concern with Anthony Edwards for a top pick

Teams are worried about Edwards' drive and enthusiasm for winning, and according to a source, the Golden State Warriors aren't a likely landing spot due to these concerns.

Despite media projections and upside that everyone acknowledges, he has a shaky reputation within NBA circles. Dion Waiters has been used by skeptics as a comparison or low-end outcome for Edwards, an inefficient scorer at Georgia whose Bulldogs finished 13 of 14 teams in the SEC.

Scouts and executives have mentioned that his teams haven't won at any level, and that he even forgets plays and actions.

He could still get consideration at No. 1 from Minnesota, but most seem to think the Wolves will favor Ball, who should also generate more interest from teams looking to trade up, given his superior star power and potential to transform a struggling team's identity with his flashy playmaking and exciting pace.

Meanwhile, the more we ask around about Edwards, the more we hear concern about his professionalism and ability to impact winning, even if his scoring production carries over.

While a trade could throw off any predraft predictions, the likelihood of Edwards dropping to No. 3 seems to have increased. The Charlotte Hornets would then have a tough call, particularly if James Wiseman is still on the board.

Onyeka Okongwu over James Wiseman?

Wiseman started the season as a No. 1 overall candidate, while Okongwu was mostly off NBA rankings as a 6'9", non-shooting center. But Bleacher Report has talked with multiple scouts who've moved Okongwu over Wiseman.

We made the move in November. But what matters most are the teams picking No. 2-10.

At this stage, Wiseman's case is mostly built around measurements, considering he played just three games at Memphis and did most of his damage as a finisher and shot-blocker. But Okongwu averaged 16.2 points and 2.7 blocks for the season, wowing with athletic plays, 94th-percentile post scoring, touch (15-of-35 half-court jumpers, 72.0 percent free-throws) and defensive activity/versatility.

As enticing as 7'1" size and 7'6" length sound, being big doesn't generate the same love and reaction as it once did.

We reported earlier there is a belief that Wiseman could fall in the No. 5-9 range.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2910623-nba-draft-buzz-if-top-pick-isnt-traded-sources-expect-lamelo-ball-to-go-first
Post #: 209
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/28/2020 1:53:04 PM   
Phil Riewer


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Rumor is Victor wants out of Indiana....getting too old or is he worth acquiring for our first? Contract is only thru next year.

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Post #: 210
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/28/2020 1:58:09 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Rumor is Victor wants out of Indiana....getting too old or is he worth acquiring for our first? Contract is only thru next year.


For the #1? God no. They won't get anything close to that for him.

I'm honestly not sure the #17 would be too much to give...

His game was VERY dependent on athleticism pre-injury. He had surgery for a ruptured quad tendon in his knee in January of 2019. Made his NBA return 371 days later and did not look at all like himself in the 20+ games he did play this year.
Post #: 211
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/28/2020 6:00:46 PM   
David Levine


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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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Dean is not at all high on Deni. And he makes a lot of really good points (and comparisons):

How Good is Deni Avdija?

https://deanondraft.com/2020/09/28/how-good-is-deni-avdija/
Post #: 212
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/29/2020 10:22:41 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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LaMelo Ball EPIC Triple-Double Highlights vs Cairns Taipans 2019.11.25 - 32 Points, 13 Ast, 11 Reb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNMvIZFLuRQ
Post #: 213
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 9/29/2020 8:31:30 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

LaMelo Ball EPIC Triple-Double Highlights vs Cairns Taipans 2019.11.25 - 32 Points, 13 Ast, 11 Reb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNMvIZFLuRQ

Even with that EPIC GAME he still sucked in the weak NBL. Was rated by some metrics as the worst defender in the whole league, shot under 40% and 25% from 3. He might have some skills, but he would mostly be a liability.

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Post #: 214
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/1/2020 1:21:13 PM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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This is such a weird draft to even wrap your head around. Current thoughts:

Most star potential: Ball
Most bust potential: Edwards (maybe followed by Ball)
Most likely to be overdrafted: Avdija
Most likely to be underdrafted: Hayes
Most likely long-time contributor: Okongwu
Biggest wildcard: Wiseman
Non-star that teams will regret passing on: Vassel
Guy who will be wildly overrated early on: Toppin
Post #: 215
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/1/2020 1:26:33 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

This is such a weird draft to even wrap your head around. Current thoughts:

Most star potential: Ball
Most bust potential: Edwards (maybe followed by Ball)
Most likely to be overdrafted: Avdija
Most likely to be underdrafted: Hayes
Most likely long-time contributor: Okongwu
Biggest wildcard: Wiseman
Non-star that teams will regret passing on: Vassel
Guy who will be wildly overrated early on: Toppin

If Ball is believed to have the most start potential, one might assume he would be the pick if the Wolves stay at #1. This is based on Rosas' previous statement that the draft is the place to go for the homerun.

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Post #: 216
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/1/2020 1:33:39 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

This is such a weird draft to even wrap your head around. Current thoughts:

Most star potential: Ball
Most bust potential: Edwards (maybe followed by Ball)
Most likely to be overdrafted: Avdija
Most likely to be underdrafted: Hayes
Most likely long-time contributor: Okongwu
Biggest wildcard: Wiseman
Non-star that teams will regret passing on: Vassel
Guy who will be wildly overrated early on: Toppin

If Ball is believed to have the most start potential, one might assume he would be the pick if the Wolves stay at #1. This is based on Rosas' previous statement that the draft is the place to go for the homerun.


That seems to be where most of the rumors are right now. That if we keep the pick its a 2 man race with Ball being ahead of Edwards.

Ball also likely has the most trade value in the draft, so if we do take him, its far from a given that he'll ever suit up as a Wolf.
Post #: 217
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/5/2020 2:10:37 PM   
kgdabom

 

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Reports continue to surface that Ball will be the Wolves pick barring a trade.

Bleacher Report’s Jonathan Wasserman reported recently that the belief among many is that, assuming the Timberwolves hang on to the pick, LaMelo Ball is slightly ahead of Edwards in the race for the top pick.

“The belief is that Minnesota’s priority is to trade, realistically down the board assuming an established star won’t become available. If the Wolves stick at No. 1, multiple sources say they’d bet on LaMelo Ball having the edge over Anthony Edwards.”

Neither pick is a particularly great fit for the Timberwolves, which explains why priority No. 1 for the team may be to trade the No. 1 pick. Most view Ball at least as the prospect with the higher ceiling and many simply view him as the higher-rated prospect.

Determining which prospect fits next to D’Angelo Russell, who didn’t exactly express a load of excitement in playing next to Ball, will be the biggest challenge for Minnesota. If they can nail that pick, they could have a trio of young stars to build toward the future with.

_____________________________

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Post #: 218
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/5/2020 2:17:45 PM   
David Levine


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My current Top 5:

Okongwu
Hayes
Ball
Vassell
ummm...maybe Wiseman? It might even be Saddiq Bey - he just screams RoCo 2.0

Guys I'd avoid in the lottery completely: Edwards, Avdija, Toppin
Post #: 219
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/6/2020 12:06:05 AM   
kgdabom

 

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My top Ten
Wiseman
Okongwu
Avdija




Edwards
Toppin
Vassell
Hayes
Haliburton
Okoro
Ball

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 220
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/6/2020 8:23:04 AM   
TJSweens


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My top 5

1. Trade the pick
2. Trade the pick
3. Trade the pick
4. Trade the pick
5. Trade the pick

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 221
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/6/2020 8:56:29 AM   
ronhextall


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Whatever the Wolves do I expect they end up with trash and the teams picking just below them get studs.
Post #: 222
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/6/2020 9:06:11 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Whatever the Wolves do I expect they end up with trash and the teams picking just below them get studs.



I don't...I think Rosas can get it done. Getting Russell and unloading Wiggins makes me think so.

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Post #: 223
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/6/2020 9:48:10 AM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Whatever the Wolves do I expect they end up with trash and the teams picking just below them get studs.



I don't...I think Rosas can get it done. Getting Russell and unloading Wiggins makes me think so.


True that, this is his big chance to reverse a couple generations worth of bad moves.
Post #: 224
RE: 2020 NBA Draft - 10/6/2020 10:27:56 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Whatever the Wolves do I expect they end up with trash and the teams picking just below them get studs.



I don't...I think Rosas can get it done. Getting Russell and unloading Wiggins makes me think so.


We gave away a lightly protected lottery pick for a guy who has been equally (but differently) bad and is on the exact same contract.

Let's not build a statue of Rosas outside of Target Center yet...
Post #: 225
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