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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason

 
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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 11:38:09 AM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If the Twins "pay" Buxton that will be a serious problem when he is injured. Unlike the Yankees, the Twins have a self imposed salary cap and paying Buxton will have ramifications to the rest of the roster.


What about Donaldson & Oddorizzi this year? Odor made two starts I believe....JD played less than half the games.

Buxton is a difference maker that was beaned 3 games before the playoffs. I think he is learning to not be so reckless....the guy has had incredibly bad luck on top of everything else. I remember a foul ball off of his toe. Add the beaning and things have to turn the other way don't they?

If we signed Sano for 4/40 that isn't a big investment for Buxton really--not a salary cap breaker.

Again, .238 hitters are not difference-makers in the playoffs. Teams loaded with .238 hitters score one run in playoff games. This team is not built to go deep into the playoffs. It's a sell-jersey, sell-tickets and sell-hot dogs during the regular season team.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 10/1/2020 11:44:37 AM >


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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 11:43:43 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Buxton and the injuries are a problem. Don't have an answer for it.
I would not get rid of Buxton. He's way too talented in every aspect of the game.
He carried this team for the short time he was playing. Way too much talent to give up on him.
We have to many other questions to worry about at this time.

He's a career .238 hitter. I would hardly call that someone that is irreplaceable.

His average over the last 2 years is about 25 points higher than that. There is also more to it than average. His slugging the last 2 years is .513 and .577 and his OPS was .827 and .844.

More than that the Twins won 70% of their games with him in the lineup over the last 2 years and are barely .500 when he is out of the lineup.

And he gets picked off when attempting to make a comeback in a playoff game.

So you're comparing a single play to a 2 year body of work?

A two-year body of work? Or two, half-year bodies of work? Which is it? 87 and 39 games is not a body of work. It's a workout.

Yet it clearly established his value in the lineup vs one base running mistake in one game.

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Post #: 52
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 11:45:24 AM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Buxton and the injuries are a problem. Don't have an answer for it.
I would not get rid of Buxton. He's way too talented in every aspect of the game.
He carried this team for the short time he was playing. Way too much talent to give up on him.
We have to many other questions to worry about at this time.

He's a career .238 hitter. I would hardly call that someone that is irreplaceable.

His average over the last 2 years is about 25 points higher than that. There is also more to it than average. His slugging the last 2 years is .513 and .577 and his OPS was .827 and .844.

More than that the Twins won 70% of their games with him in the lineup over the last 2 years and are barely .500 when he is out of the lineup.

And he gets picked off when attempting to make a comeback in a playoff game.

So you're comparing a single play to a 2 year body of work?

A two-year body of work? Or two, half-year bodies of work? Which is it? 87 and 39 games is not a body of work. It's a workout.

Yet it clearly established his value in the lineup vs one base running mistake in one game.

Big players make big plays at big times.

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Post #: 53
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 11:47:38 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If the Twins "pay" Buxton that will be a serious problem when he is injured. Unlike the Yankees, the Twins have a self imposed salary cap and paying Buxton will have ramifications to the rest of the roster.


What about Donaldson & Oddorizzi this year? Odor made two starts I believe....JD played less than half the games.

Buxton is a difference maker that was beaned 3 games before the playoffs. I think he is learning to not be so reckless....the guy has had incredibly bad luck on top of everything else. I remember a foul ball off of his toe. Add the beaning and things have to turn the other way don't they?

If we signed Sano for 4/40 that isn't a big investment for Buxton really--not a salary cap breaker.

Again, .238 hitters are not difference-makers in the playoffs. Teams loaded with .238 hitters score one run in playoff games. This team is not built to go deep into the playoffs. It's a sell-jersey, sell-tickets and sell-hot dogs during the regular season team.

Again, not a .238 hitter. Again .844 OPS and second highest HR total on the team. Again proven fact that the Twins win at a much higher percentage with him in the lineup.

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Post #: 54
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 11:47:52 AM   
bstinger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

What to do w/Cruz

last 10 games w/the bothersome knee didn't do much

Then the playoffs and

Nelson Cruz: 2-for-6, 2 doubles, 2 walks.
The rest of the #MNTwins: 5-for-53, no extra-base hits, eight walks.


I'm sure he'd like a couple year deal. Talk it out. Maybe a year w/mutual option.

Gotta get him resigned. Cruz was dealing with a balky knee the last part of the season. We need his bat and we desperately need his leadership.

I liken him to a Torii Hunter. We lost Hunter and went straight in the toilet. Hunter came back and we just missed the playoffs. Hunter retired and we went right back in the toilet.

Some guys have that undefinable "something" that makes a team better by their mere presence and Cruz is one of those guys.

Agree, and when he's ready to retire he becomes the strength and conditioning coordinator.

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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 11:50:56 AM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If the Twins "pay" Buxton that will be a serious problem when he is injured. Unlike the Yankees, the Twins have a self imposed salary cap and paying Buxton will have ramifications to the rest of the roster.


What about Donaldson & Oddorizzi this year? Odor made two starts I believe....JD played less than half the games.

Buxton is a difference maker that was beaned 3 games before the playoffs. I think he is learning to not be so reckless....the guy has had incredibly bad luck on top of everything else. I remember a foul ball off of his toe. Add the beaning and things have to turn the other way don't they?

If we signed Sano for 4/40 that isn't a big investment for Buxton really--not a salary cap breaker.

Again, .238 hitters are not difference-makers in the playoffs. Teams loaded with .238 hitters score one run in playoff games. This team is not built to go deep into the playoffs. It's a sell-jersey, sell-tickets and sell-hot dogs during the regular season team.

Again, not a .238 hitter. Again .844 OPS and second highest HR total on the team. Again proven fact that the Twins win at a much higher percentage with him in the lineup.

His career OPS is .719. Career post-season OPS is .333.

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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 11:52:34 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Buxton and the injuries are a problem. Don't have an answer for it.
I would not get rid of Buxton. He's way too talented in every aspect of the game.
He carried this team for the short time he was playing. Way too much talent to give up on him.
We have to many other questions to worry about at this time.

He's a career .238 hitter. I would hardly call that someone that is irreplaceable.

His average over the last 2 years is about 25 points higher than that. There is also more to it than average. His slugging the last 2 years is .513 and .577 and his OPS was .827 and .844.

More than that the Twins won 70% of their games with him in the lineup over the last 2 years and are barely .500 when he is out of the lineup.

And he gets picked off when attempting to make a comeback in a playoff game.

So you're comparing a single play to a 2 year body of work?

A two-year body of work? Or two, half-year bodies of work? Which is it? 87 and 39 games is not a body of work. It's a workout.

Yet it clearly established his value in the lineup vs one base running mistake in one game.

Big players make big plays at big times.


Who would you have play Centerfield? The only true ones in the 40 man are Cave, Kepler/Rosario, and rumored Lewis. Buxton has more value on the trade market and is still really cheap. I would bet the FO gets more calls for Buck than anyone. If healthy he is a difference maker.

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Post #: 57
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 11:53:29 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If the Twins "pay" Buxton that will be a serious problem when he is injured. Unlike the Yankees, the Twins have a self imposed salary cap and paying Buxton will have ramifications to the rest of the roster.


What about Donaldson & Oddorizzi this year? Odor made two starts I believe....JD played less than half the games.

Buxton is a difference maker that was beaned 3 games before the playoffs. I think he is learning to not be so reckless....the guy has had incredibly bad luck on top of everything else. I remember a foul ball off of his toe. Add the beaning and things have to turn the other way don't they?

If we signed Sano for 4/40 that isn't a big investment for Buxton really--not a salary cap breaker.

Again, .238 hitters are not difference-makers in the playoffs. Teams loaded with .238 hitters score one run in playoff games. This team is not built to go deep into the playoffs. It's a sell-jersey, sell-tickets and sell-hot dogs during the regular season team.

Again, not a .238 hitter. Again .844 OPS and second highest HR total on the team. Again proven fact that the Twins win at a much higher percentage with him in the lineup.

His career OPS is .719. Career post-season OPS is .333.


Same was said of Aaron Hicks but the Yankees had no issue letting him play CF when healthy. I thought less of Hicks than Buxton.

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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 12:00:27 PM  1 votes
TJSweens


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His career post season amounts to 6 at bats. His career offensive numbers are hurt because the Twins jumped him from a handful of at bats in AA to the major leagues at age 21, long before he was ready to hit at this level. His OPS the last two years is .827 and .844. He has hit double digit home runs 3 times now. His development is obvious to anyone who has watched the Twins over the last few years. Probably not to someone who hasn't watched them much, but suddenly shows up in a post season thread to talk about him anyways.

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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 12:03:02 PM   
bstinger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

His career post season amounts to 6 at bats. His career offensive numbers are hurt because the Twins jumped him from a handful of at bats in AA to the major leagues at age 21, long before he was ready to hit at this level. His OPS the last two years is .827 and .844. He has hit double digit home runs 3 times now. His development is obvious to anyone who has watched the Twins over the last few years. Probably not to someone who hasn't watched them much, but suddenly shows up in a post season thread to talk about him anyways.

Agree. Buck made strides this year. The beaning was unfortunate as he was playing well before that. He's my starting CF next year.

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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 12:53:27 PM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If the Twins "pay" Buxton that will be a serious problem when he is injured. Unlike the Yankees, the Twins have a self imposed salary cap and paying Buxton will have ramifications to the rest of the roster.


What about Donaldson & Oddorizzi this year? Odor made two starts I believe....JD played less than half the games.

Buxton is a difference maker that was beaned 3 games before the playoffs. I think he is learning to not be so reckless....the guy has had incredibly bad luck on top of everything else. I remember a foul ball off of his toe. Add the beaning and things have to turn the other way don't they?

If we signed Sano for 4/40 that isn't a big investment for Buxton really--not a salary cap breaker.


Buxton got hurt for an extended period of time by sliding into home plate with zero contact.
Post #: 61
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 1:54:32 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If the Twins "pay" Buxton that will be a serious problem when he is injured. Unlike the Yankees, the Twins have a self imposed salary cap and paying Buxton will have ramifications to the rest of the roster.


What about Donaldson & Oddorizzi this year? Odor made two starts I believe....JD played less than half the games.

Buxton is a difference maker that was beaned 3 games before the playoffs. I think he is learning to not be so reckless....the guy has had incredibly bad luck on top of everything else. I remember a foul ball off of his toe. Add the beaning and things have to turn the other way don't they?

If we signed Sano for 4/40 that isn't a big investment for Buxton really--not a salary cap breaker.


Buxton got hurt for an extended period of time by sliding into home plate with zero contact.


Another example....I remember Ortiz breaking his hamate bone and or hurting his knee sliding home once...(injuries) were what led to him being released.

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Post #: 62
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:05:35 PM   
Mr. Ed


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A day after the team’s 18th consecutive postseason loss — a major sports record — Twins President of Baseball Operations Derek Falvey answered 40 minutes of questions in his postseason briefing.

“This was challenging,” he said. “A lot of guys were away from their families for a long time this year. When they got in the bubble, they could have said, ‘Hey, I just want this to be over, I want to go home.’ I can tell you that was not the emotion in the clubhouse yesterday. They wanted to win.

“None of us slept well last night. This was tough.”

The Twins set a major league record for home runs in 2019 over 162 games, and set a team record for runs scored, but their offense struggled more during the COVID-19 shortened 2020 season. Falvey was asked if the “Bomba Squad” was too home-run oriented.

“The goal is not every time they stand up there to hit a home run — it’s to put a good swing on the ball and attack,” Falvey said. “Yeah, we scored a lot of runs on home runs. That’s part of our team. It didn’t go well the past couple of days.

“That’s something we’re thinking about. We’re power reliant. We’ve got to think about what it is that didn’t allow us to get going over the last couple of days.

“Credit to the Astros. They found a way to attack us. They beat us. I don’t want to make excuses, and say otherwise. They attacked some of our weaknesses, and we have to figure out how to correct that going into the next playoffs.”

About Byron Buxton

Center fielder Byron Buxton played Tuesday, but didn’t start Wednesday. He had been cleared to play after being beaned on Friday; he did enter as a pinch runner and was picked off. He also missed time during the season because of a shoulder injury.

Why didn’t Buxton start?

“He wasn’t feeling great when he came in,” Falvey said. “That was the crux of it, the way he described it. I don’t have much more to say outside of that.”

Planning next

The team now turns to offseason planning, where Falvey expects changes.

“Definitely don’t think you want to go into an offseason and just run things back and hope it’s better,” he said. “We know we fell short.

“This is going to be a difficult season to access. Some of our players who broke out last year and struggled this year, you can attribute to the challenges of the season. We’ll have to examine leaguewide what we can make of the 60-game season.

“We all feel the emotions of the last 24, 48 hours. We had a really good group, a blended group, young guys early in their career, and guys who had been there before. I believe in our staff, and a players in that room, and I know how much they wanted to win.

“We didn’t have the fully healthy lineup all the way through. Those aren’t excuses, that’s just the truth of it.”

Cruz question

Falvey said the team hopes to re-sign 40-year-old designated hitter Nelson Cruz, the team’s best offensive player the past two seasons.

“We see a fit for him here, and we want to keep him,” Falvey said. “The feeling was mutual around his interest in us and our interest in him. We’ll go through this process entering free agency and with his agent and be thoughtful about that.

“We aren’t that deep into our offseason planning. We were hoping to start to get into that in the bubble, out in California.”

The team will also make sure shortstop Jorge Polanco, coming off ankle surgery, is healthy after “he was not playing at 100 percent all year.” Polanco’s offensive stats dropped, and he made a crucial error in Game 1 when the Astros scored three unearned runs.

Donaldson missing

High profile free agent signing Josh Donaldson didn’t participate in the playoffs, and missed half the regular season, because of a calf injury.

“Our hope and expectation was that Josh was going to be a force in getting us to the postseason and a factor when we go there,” Falvey said. “The calf injury was an issue. We know he had it in the past.





“We’ll dive deeper into it with Josh this offseason. We’ll work over the next couple of months to make sure we’re in a position to keep in on the field.

“We missed him in the lineup for sure. You could see that over the last couple of days.”

Quick promotions

The Twins’ minor leaguers missed a year of play. The Twins did get contributions from players like catcher Ryan Jeffers, outfielder Brent Rooker and, in the final game of the playoffs, outfielder Alex Kirilloff after they started the season with the St. Paul workout group.

“Our minor league players have lost a full year of development,” Falvey said. “We need to think about the risk, if some guys need more development playing a season at the minor league level, or if they can do it at the major league level.”

Kirilloff was thrown into the lineup because of Buxton’s absence and did not look out of place. Jeffers started both games ahead of Mitch Garver, who hit 31 homers in 2019 but had his 2020 season wrecked by an intercostal injury. Rooker was becoming a lineup regular before suffering a broken arm in September when hit by a pitch.


< Message edited by Mr. Ed -- 10/1/2020 2:11:01 PM >


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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:32:36 PM   
Mr. Ed


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WARRIORS

Almost every Twins hitter was hurt at some point in 2020. Derek Falvey indicated Jorge Polanco's ankle is more serious than his playing nearly every day suggested.

Surgery is an option. "He battled every day, but he was not playing at full strength for a good chunk of the year."


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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:34:17 PM   
SoMnFan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

WARRIORS

Almost every Twins hitter was hurt at some point in 2020. Derek Falvey indicated Jorge Polanco's ankle is more serious than his playing nearly every day suggested.

Surgery is an option. "He battled every day, but he was not playing at full strength for a good chunk of the year."


Could tell on that fateful throw
Ball came off his ankle weird

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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:35:00 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

WARRIORS

Almost every Twins hitter was hurt at some point in 2020. Derek Falvey indicated Jorge Polanco's ankle is more serious than his playing nearly every day suggested.

Surgery is an option. "He battled every day, but he was not playing at full strength for a good chunk of the year."



WTH...should have brought up Lewis and said screw service time but..... Nope.

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Post #: 66
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:43:12 PM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

WARRIORS

Almost every Twins hitter was hurt at some point in 2020. Derek Falvey indicated Jorge Polanco's ankle is more serious than his playing nearly every day suggested.

Surgery is an option. "He battled every day, but he was not playing at full strength for a good chunk of the year."


Could tell on that fateful throw
Ball came off his ankle weird

Yup.

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Post #: 67
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:46:22 PM   
Phil Riewer


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Polanco was one of my favorites of 2019....he was soo good last year and no where near that good this year.

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Post #: 68
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:49:27 PM   
Mr. Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

WARRIORS

Almost every Twins hitter was hurt at some point in 2020. Derek Falvey indicated Jorge Polanco's ankle is more serious than his playing nearly every day suggested.

Surgery is an option. "He battled every day, but he was not playing at full strength for a good chunk of the year."


Could tell on that fateful throw
Ball came off his ankle weird





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Post #: 69
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:51:20 PM   
SoMnFan


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Somebody gets me
Thanks man

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Post #: 70
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:53:04 PM   
Mr. Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Somebody gets me
Thanks man



That was a good one.

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Post #: 71
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:57:43 PM   
SoMnFan


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Its the MN way
He musta been hurt …
We do it especially in hockey, and then … you hear half the roster of the Cup-winning teams had leg fractures and dislocated arms, and severe brain trauma.
EVERYONE's hurt by the end of the year. or should be. In varying degrees.

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Post #: 72
RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 2:59:09 PM   
Mr. Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Its the MN way
He musta been hurt …
We do it especially in hockey, and then … you hear half the roster of the Cup-winning teams had leg fractures and dislocated arms, and severe brain trauma.
EVERYONE's hurt by the end of the year. or should be. In varying degrees.



Using excuses like that

IS FOR LOSERS

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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 3:00:09 PM   
Mr. Ed


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Boo Hoo

As Phil said

If it was THAT bad

Then Lewis should have been brought up

Or Blankenhorn could have played third while Adrianza played short

Otherwise

STFU about owies.

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RE: Twins 2020 Season Post Mortem and Offseason - 10/1/2020 3:01:14 PM   
Mr. Ed


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Your team choked

On the same level as gardy's rabbit chokkers

Own it

and get better.

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