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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/31/2021 6:09:37 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Jamin Davis LB Kentucky

4.37 sec. 40
42" vertical
11' broad

Wow. Double wow.

Squirrel!!!

Shiny Squirrel!!!

What shifty offensive line....

Mike Zimmer’s thought process... in a Squirrel!!! Nutshell.

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 676

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 7:55:47 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
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What if picks 1-13 include

Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance
Chase, Waddle, Smith
Sewell
Pitts
Farley
Parsons
Slater, Tucker

Post #: 677

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 7:57:57 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Prospects with Pro Days today:

• Rashod Bateman
• Tevin Jenkins
• Richie Grant
• Aaron Robinson
• Tylan Wallace
• Jermar Jefferson
• Benjamin St.-Juste
• Chuba Hubbard
• Hamilcar Rashed Jr.
• Marlon Williams
• Rodarius Williams
• Shemar Jean-Charles
• Tay Gowan

Jordan Reid on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 678

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 7:58:51 AM

Bruce Johnson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

What if picks 1-13 include

Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance
Chase, Waddle, Smith
Sewell
Pitts
Farley
Parsons
Slater, Tucker

For me it would be Darrisaw. He's my guy.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 679

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 8:07:57 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

What if picks 1-13 include

Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance
Chase, Waddle, Smith
Sewell
Pitts
Farley
Parsons
Slater, Tucker

For me it would be Darrisaw. He's my guy.

+1

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 680

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 8:40:40 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

What if picks 1-13 include

Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance
Chase, Waddle, Smith
Sewell
Pitts
Farley
Parsons
Slater, Tucker

For me it would be Darrisaw. He's my guy.

+1

Sorry to burst your bubble guys but if you watched Zimmers presser yesterday, and knowing his history, he/ they will draft an edge rusher, or LBer at #14 (if they don’t trade down)
Hell Zim acted like they’re all squared away, and will simply have competition amongst the guys they have.
He even said they’ve done enough in Free agency to draft completely BPA. Hahahahaha- OK..

Could be a smoke screen I guess.

Post #: 681

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 8:45:20 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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To allow your best o-lineman on a bad offensive line go in free agency and not acquire a starter in free agency, then to not address it early in the draft- well, that would be malpractice.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 682

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 8:54:29 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Jordan Reid's big board. He has Slater rated above Darrisaw. Both would be good to draft.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/2021-nfl-draft-big-board-reid-top-50-march

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 683

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 10:09:28 AM

Todd M

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

To allow your best o-lineman on a bad offensive line go in free agency and not acquire a starter in free agency, then to not address it early in the draft- well, that would be malpractice.

Our 1st pick has to go to OL. And I really don't want to hear Spielman say they had x amount of players the same so we dropped down.

Post #: 684

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 10:38:28 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

To allow your best o-lineman on a bad offensive line go in free agency and not acquire a starter in free agency, then to not address it early in the draft- well, that would be malpractice.

Our 1st pick has to go to OL. And I really don't want to hear Spielman say they had x amount of players the same so we dropped down.

Why not? If he has say three players all equally rated (assuming all are OL but that is based on how desperate the need is) why not trade down, in this case, two places.

Post #: 685

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 11:57:53 AM

Brad H

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Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

To allow your best o-lineman on a bad offensive line go in free agency and not acquire a starter in free agency, then to not address it early in the draft- well, that would be malpractice.

Our 1st pick has to go to OL. And I really don't want to hear Spielman say they had x amount of players the same so we dropped down.

Why not? If he has say three players all equally rated (assuming all are OL but that is based on how desperate the need is) why not trade down, in this case, two places.

Nobody is equal. They have to have a pecking order at this point.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 686

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 12:28:21 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

To allow your best o-lineman on a bad offensive line go in free agency and not acquire a starter in free agency, then to not address it early in the draft- well, that would be malpractice.

Our 1st pick has to go to OL. And I really don't want to hear Spielman say they had x amount of players the same so we dropped down.

Why not? If he has say three players all equally rated (assuming all are OL but that is based on how desperate the need is) why not trade down, in this case, two places.

Nobody is equal. They have to have a pecking order at this point.

Not the way RS groups them for trade down purposes.

Post #: 687

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 12:30:59 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

To allow your best o-lineman on a bad offensive line go in free agency and not acquire a starter in free agency, then to not address it early in the draft- well, that would be malpractice.

Our 1st pick has to go to OL. And I really don't want to hear Spielman say they had x amount of players the same so we dropped down.

Only one I would not complain about is Parsons. Guy could have a 1998 Moss like effect on defense. Turning a good defense into a great defense. Kahlil Mack like.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 4/1/2021 12:32:59 PM >

Post #: 688

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 12:48:33 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Status: offline

If RS didn't piss away the 2nd round pick, we would have had a chance to take a talent like Parsons and - with some deals - address the OL with two second rounders. That also assumes he would have signed at least a mid-tier FA G, which is crazy talk.

As it stands, we could pick a Parsons but a possible lone 2nd rounder - with the same deals as above - is all he has to address his failures. I wouldn't complain if Parsons is all that, but would be pretty antsy on what they would do to fix the OL. Maybe a player for player trade.

Edit: Actually, if Parsons is a generational talent then by all means take him over Aloe-Vera. To do otherwise is short-sided. Then move up to get a Wyatt Davis type in the 2nd. And draft more a G, trade, whatever.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 4/1/2021 12:52:29 PM >

Post #: 689

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 1:30:26 PM

Murph

Posts: 2027
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

To allow your best o-lineman on a bad offensive line go in free agency and not acquire a starter in free agency, then to not address it early in the draft- well, that would be malpractice.

Our 1st pick has to go to OL. And I really don't want to hear Spielman say they had x amount of players the same so we dropped down.

Only one I would not complain about is Parsons. Guy could have a 1998 Moss like effect on defense. Turning a good defense into a great defense. Kahlil Mack like.

I agree; first pick has to be offense with the exception of Parsons.

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".

Post #: 690

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 3:46:34 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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I was going to the draft trade chart and calculating what the difference was between the value of the pick we lost for Yannick Ngakoue and the value we got for trading him. The net was an end of the second round pick. Our pick was an upper half of the second round and the pick we got was an end of the third round selection. The value of the second rounder was almost three times as much as what we got back. That probably puts it into better perspective and also gives perspective on how expensive it will be to get back into the second round. If we do, it will certainly have to be later in the second round. Even that will cost our third (a higher third) and the Ravens third. The more I think about it, the more painful is the reality.

The Vikings probably understand the math better than we do and must be very much inclined to drop down from their first round pick. That would be the much less painful way to retrieve a second rounder. Well, I don't know about that. Checking the trade chart, we would have to trade back to pick 21 just to get a later second rounder in return. Ouch. That is the reality. These draft picks are very much coveted.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 691

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 4:07:09 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Bateman looks really good here in his pro day workout:

https://twitter.com/TNTACADEMY1/status/1377697183135367169?s=20

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 692

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 4:10:05 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Teven Jenkins is a OT prospect in the 2021 draft class. He scored a 9.73 RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 31 out of 1129 OT from 1987 to 2021.

(Kent Lee Platte on Twitter)

I don't know where he goes, but he looks like an option if we trade back or re-coop a second selection. He might go in the latter part of the first round. Not sure. I'm not a great Teven Jenkins mind.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 693

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 4:33:17 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

Last 10 years

Current Vikings-drafted best players on roster
Pick 22, Justin Jefferson
Pick 29, Harrison Smith
Pick 41, Dalvin Cook
Pick 45, Eric Kendricks
Pick 62, Bryan O'Neill
Pick 88, Danielle Hunter
Undrafted, Adam Theilen
Not a single one of our top players above was drafted before pick 22.

Notable Vikings first rounders
Pick 4, Matt Kalil
Pick 9, Anthony Barr
Pick 11, Trae Waynes (better: Xavier Rhodes pick 25)
Pick 12, Christian Ponder (better: Teddy Bridgewater pick 32)
Pick 18, Garrett Bradbury
Pick 23, Laquon Treadwell
There are your vaunted and precious higher picks, largely a pile of crap. One could argue Barr, but in a redraft he isn't worth the #9 overall.

Other
Pick 23, Sharif Floyd (botched surgery)
Pick 30, Mike Hughes (neck, other, TBD)

Our late first-early second picks are FAR better than the picks in the pre-20s. People focus on the pick number, panic, reach for need, and ignore options. Seven spots in draft position doesn't mean jack as proven here, but it can largely allow you to double your chances.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 4/1/2021 4:38:07 PM >

Post #: 694

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/1/2021 5:04:14 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

If RS didn't piss away the 2nd round pick, we would have had a chance to take a talent like Parsons and - with some deals - address the OL with two second rounders. That also assumes he would have signed at least a mid-tier FA G, which is crazy talk.

As it stands, we could pick a Parsons but a possible lone 2nd rounder - with the same deals as above - is all he has to address his failures. I wouldn't complain if Parsons is all that, but would be pretty antsy on what they would do to fix the OL. Maybe a player for player trade.

Edit: Actually, if Parsons is a generational talent then by all means take him over Aloe-Vera. To do otherwise is short-sided. Then move up to get a Wyatt Davis type in the 2nd. And draft more a G, trade, whatever.

Yeah. That would be prime territory for some of these 2nd tier Tackles and Guards.

Post #: 695

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/3/2021 6:00:21 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Getting close to the draft now. I like Spencer Thompson and here he is with a ranking of interior defensive line players and approximately where they will go.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/vfr-scouting-49563191?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=postshare

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 696

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/3/2021 10:29:38 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9562
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was going to the draft trade chart and calculating what the difference was between the value of the pick we lost for Yannick Ngakoue and the value we got for trading him. The net was an end of the second round pick. Our pick was an upper half of the second round and the pick we got was an end of the third round selection. The value of the second rounder was almost three times as much as what we got back. That probably puts it into better perspective and also gives perspective on how expensive it will be to get back into the second round. If we do, it will certainly have to be later in the second round. Even that will cost our third (a higher third) and the Ravens third. The more I think about it, the more painful is the reality.

The Vikings probably understand the math better than we do and must be very much inclined to drop down from their first round pick. That would be the much less painful way to retrieve a second rounder. Well, I don't know about that. Checking the trade chart, we would have to trade back to pick 21 just to get a later second rounder in return. Ouch. That is the reality. These draft picks are very much coveted.

We throw in a 3rd/4th for an early pick...best case scenario a qb falls....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 697

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/3/2021 11:09:09 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was going to the draft trade chart and calculating what the difference was between the value of the pick we lost for Yannick Ngakoue and the value we got for trading him. The net was an end of the second round pick. Our pick was an upper half of the second round and the pick we got was an end of the third round selection. The value of the second rounder was almost three times as much as what we got back. That probably puts it into better perspective and also gives perspective on how expensive it will be to get back into the second round. If we do, it will certainly have to be later in the second round. Even that will cost our third (a higher third) and the Ravens third. The more I think about it, the more painful is the reality.

The Vikings probably understand the math better than we do and must be very much inclined to drop down from their first round pick. That would be the much less painful way to retrieve a second rounder. Well, I don't know about that. Checking the trade chart, we would have to trade back to pick 21 just to get a later second rounder in return. Ouch. That is the reality. These draft picks are very much coveted.

We throw in a 3rd/4th for an early pick...best case scenario a qb falls....

A third round pick is worth slightly less than half of the comparable second round pick. It's kind of like a logarithmic value scale, if that makes any sense. It's not linear.

Perhaps a more reasonable way (and less painful) would be to work on both ends. What I mean is to trade back a little bit from #14 and to trade up from pick (is it #79?)

So here's an example of that. Let's say they start out the draft and trade back three spots in the first. That would yield a fifth rounder, but lets say the team trading up overpays a bit because the options will be worth it. So lets say they offer a back of the fourth rounder. Shoot. That's the reality. So next we trade both of our third round picks plus the back end of the fourth rounder and we can get somewhere about two thirds of the way into the second round. Say pick #52.

The result would be pick 17, 52 and then that would be it until day three when we would have a number of selections in rounds four and five. Maybe one in six, but that's it as it stands now.

Sometimes around pick #52 you can get a player who was hopeful of getting selected in the back end of round one, but slipped all the way to 52. That does happen. If you're lucky you can get a player like O'Brien or Ezra Cleveland. Cleveland is really a good example. I'm thinking there were teams considering to take him in the first round, but he somehow dropped to us in the second. Neither Cleveland or O'Neil started for game one of their rookie seasons, but started later and played relatively well.

Sorry for my rambling. I'm sort of thinking out loud here. I don't know what you all think of this thinking.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 698

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/3/2021 11:37:24 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

The trade down-trade up scenario. We know how it works. People here have advocated it every draft for years, including this year.

Some are laser focused on Aloe Vera or a tackle at #14 so for them it's not an option. In 2019 we could have done a simple trade down and picked future Pro-Bowler Jenkins but we took semi-bust Bradbury at 17... another example of panic for need which means you lost draft assets and are also stuck with the player's ever increasing rookie salary. And of course the #17 pick is granted 3-4 years worth of chances so that the GM can save face.

Post #: 699

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/3/2021 11:57:18 AM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The trade down-trade up scenario. We know how it works. People here have advocated it every draft for years, including this year.

Some are laser focused on Aloe Vera or a tackle at #14 so for them it's not an option. In 2019 we could have done a simple trade down and picked future Pro-Bowler Jenkins but we took semi-bust Bradbury at 17... another example of panic for need which means you lost draft assets and are also stuck with the player's ever increasing rookie salary. And of course the #17 pick is granted 3-4 years worth of chances so that the GM can save face.

Hindsight is pretty easy.

Denver and Oakland probably wish they would have traded down and taken Jefferson instead of Jeudy and Ruggs.

I'm for a trade down. Paul Charchian bragging up Teven Jenkins(RT/RG). Move down a few spots, get an extra pick and then figure out how to get a solid LG after that.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 4/3/2021 12:21:01 PM >

Post #: 700