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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:39:43 PM

marty

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The change is a QB change in Minnesota, and there can be MANY catalysts.

You like the idea of the Vikes getting Watson, hop aboard the train, and let's work towards getting others and Spielman interested in making it happen.

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Post #: 451

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:41:12 PM

David Levine

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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

David, I think the word catalyst means what I think it means, am not sure what you think it means:

"A catalyst is an event or person causing a change. ... The noun catalyst is something or someone that causes a change and is derived from the Greek word katalύein, meaning "to dissolve." It can be somewhat ordinary, like when moving to a warmer climate was the catalyst for getting a short, sporty haircut."

But you have zero impact on anything the Vikings do. You are not a catalyst. You don't cause anything!

Post #: 452

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:43:51 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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David, it's not that Spielman isn't aware of Deshaun Watson's availability, it's that he may not be aware that many fans and people in the Vikings' organization think it should be done, that it's a good idea, that think it can be done, that we aren't all that excited about Cousin's leading the way, that we believe it could set things in motion for a SB run, etc ....

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Post #: 453

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:44:26 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77909
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The change is a QB change in Minnesota, and there can be MANY catalysts.

You like the idea of the Vikes getting Watson, hop aboard the train, and let's work towards getting others and Spielman interested in making it happen.

OK. How do we "work on making it happen"? I'm pretty sure sitting in your basement wishing really hard isn;t going to have any effect.

Are you writing letters to Spielman and the Wilfs?

Are you creating power point presentations to bring to your meetings with the Vikings front office?

Are you buying billboards and TV ads in Minneapolis and Houston?

Are you going to law school to become a sports agent and try to sign Watson away from his current representation and use your influence to get him to demand a trade to Minnesota?

Post #: 454

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:45:32 PM

The Happy Norseman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Phil Mackey
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#49ers still looking to make a move at QB. Kirk Cousins, I'm told, is a name to keep an eye on. If #Vikings are open to dealing, San Francisco will push hard to acquire him. Ties with Shanahan make this an intriguing potential fit.

SF would have to offer the Vikings a Stafford/Goff like deal to make it worthwhile. Stafford is better than Cousins, but not by a lot, and while Goff isn’t very good, neither is Garoppolo, who can’t even stay on the field. If San Fran offered this years 1st and 2nd, and next years 1st round draft picks, plus Garoppolo, I’d probably do it if I were the Vikings.

Stafford is on a very friendly contract. Goff is not. LA paid picks to dump salary. That was more like an NBA trade.

Garoppolo is on a very friendly contract. Cousins is not. Minnesota would pay to dump Cousins salary. That would be offset by Cousins being a better QB, but no way would we get two #1s and a #2.

As far as dead cap, year, cap, etc, Goff and Cousins have very similar contracts.

I disagree. I think LA paid picks in order to secure Stafford, who's a big upgrade and who puts them in contention to win the Superbowl. Reports are that a bunch of teams were calling about Stafford, and all those teams were offering multiple picks.

Like I said, it would only worth trading Cousins for two 1's and a 2. If SF thinks its too rich, then the Vikings don't do the deal. Anything less and its a losing trade for the Vikings as they'd get salary cap relief, but then they'd be left with a fragile, bad, starting QB. If they only got San Fran's first rounder this year, maybe Lance is available. But then the Vikings are stuck with a bad starter, and a QBOTF who's at least a year away from being a starter. It's never going to happen anyway, as RS loves him some Cousins.

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Post #: 455

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:46:40 PM

marty

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David, to you it seems to be all about ego, or proving some sort of point.

I only suggesting that through osmosis, through talking about things, we can get the ball rolling, help through word of mouth, hope it filters in through the right management channels, and the next we know, the Vikes have acquired Watson.

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Post #: 456

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:50:58 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77909
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

David, to you it seems to be all about ego, or proving some sort of point.

I only suggesting that through osmosis, through talking about things, we can get the ball rolling, help through word of mouth, hope it filters in through the right management channels, and the next we know, the Vikes have acquired Watson.

Its about asking you to come up with a real idea about how it could be done instead of constantly complaining that it isn't happening.

You're the one with the ego because you think you have some level of influence over a sports team.

Post #: 457

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:53:11 PM

marty

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David, I am doing none of those things, but I may influence others to do those very things. Or I encourage someone like you, or someone on this message board to influence another person, and that other person ends up influencing someone to do one of the things you suggested.

We're talking about the Vikes getting Deshaun Watson, and it's off to a good start. Not much opposition, just maybe Bill, who seems to think Cousins has the 'it', and can lead the Vikes to a SB, based on some decent statistics, but ignoring mobility and certain clutch factors.

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Post #: 458

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 5:57:19 PM

Phil Riewer

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The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

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Post #: 459

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:00:00 PM

marty

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David, I am not constantly complaining that a trade for Watson isn't happening, in fact, I haven't once complained about that.

Formulating a plan is an entirely different thing. I don't about that, I will just stick with being a catalyst towards making the discussions turn towards his acquisition, until Watson is signed by someo

< Message edited by marty -- 2/1/2021 6:03:45 PM >

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Post #: 460

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:03:10 PM

marty

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The hell with a 1st, take the 2nd and 4th, then package them and Garapolo with some picks to Houston, and get Watson.

Or I would take a chance on Garoppolo, would be happy to see Cousins gone.

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Post #: 461

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:06:57 PM

Bill Jandro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

Take it!!!

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Post #: 462

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:09:12 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77909
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

That would get us out from Cousins, and Garoppolo is a downgrade - but he has a more "escapable salary".

That doesn't even get us close to Watson.

It would probably take the SF 2nd, two or three 1sts from us and Hunter (with a new contract) and Dantzler to get Watson.

< Message edited by David Levine -- 2/1/2021 6:11:39 PM >

Post #: 463

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:12:50 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

That would get us out from Cousins, and Garoppolo is a downgrade - but he has a more "escapable salary".

That doesn't even get us close to Watson.

It would probably take the SF 2nd, two or three 1sts from us and Hunter (with a new contract) and Dantzler to get Watson.

how about two 1sts, two 2nds, Dantzler and kendricks

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Post #: 464

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:14:56 PM

Pager

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

Signing bonus is the biggest part of the cap hit. We converted a lot of Cousins last year's base to bonus and added years. But the new/acquiring team doesn't have that count against their cap. Think Diggs.

I last read that the acquiring team for Cousins would essentially get him for a 2 year/28M deal. No idea if the timing of the trade impacts that number or how.

But that is a very friendly number. I wouldn't trade for less than a 2021 first and exchange of picks or something in 2022.

Stafford might be the slightly better QB but is often injured. Cousins is an iron man.

I would be open to then giving up both 1sts in 2021, some of our extra mid-rounders in 2021, and our 2022 first. Think that is enough for Watson? It's way more than what Rams gave for Stafford. Rams essentially gave a 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd (future picks devalued about a round per year).

Rudy, Reiff, for sure would be gone.

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Post #: 465

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:19:56 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77909
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

That would get us out from Cousins, and Garoppolo is a downgrade - but he has a more "escapable salary".

That doesn't even get us close to Watson.

It would probably take the SF 2nd, two or three 1sts from us and Hunter (with a new contract) and Dantzler to get Watson.

how about two 1sts, two 2nds, Dantzler and kendricks

I'd rather give up Hunter.

I'm worried about his neck.

And while I get the value of edge rushers, its not easy to find a LBer that can QB a defense, be a hitter and also a terrific pass defender.

Money is a factor too. Hunter already makes significantly more than Kendricks and is complaining about his contract.

Post #: 466

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:22:49 PM

David Levine

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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

Signing bonus is the biggest part of the cap hit. We converted a lot of Cousins last year's base to bonus and added years. But the new/acquiring team doesn't have that count against their cap. Think Diggs.

I last read that the acquiring team for Cousins would essentially get him for a 2 year/28M deal. No idea if the timing of the trade impacts that number or how.

But that is a very friendly number. I wouldn't trade for less than a 2021 first and exchange of picks or something in 2022.

Stafford might be the slightly better QB but is often injured. Cousins is an iron man.

I would be open to then giving up both 1sts in 2021, some of our extra mid-rounders in 2021, and our 2022 first. Think that is enough for Watson? It's way more than what Rams gave for Stafford. Rams essentially gave a 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd (future picks devalued about a round per year).

Rudy, Reiff, for sure would be gone.

Stafford has played in all 16 games 9 of the past 10 years.

Post #: 467

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:23:25 PM

Pager

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The problem with dealing Kendricks or hunter is the additional cap hit it creates, signing bonus is accelerated instead of spread out over the life of the contract. Watson's base against our cap will be lower than what the Texans paid him, but we'd still have issues fitting him for the 2021 season. We'll be more than ok in 2022 (last I saw we had a lot of cap space).

Giving 3 firsts and 3rd, I'd hate to give up Danz or Gladney.

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Post #: 468

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:24:05 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

That would get us out from Cousins, and Garoppolo is a downgrade - but he has a more "escapable salary".

That doesn't even get us close to Watson.

It would probably take the SF 2nd, two or three 1sts from us and Hunter (with a new contract) and Dantzler to get Watson.

how about two 1sts, two 2nds, Dantzler and kendricks

I'd rather give up Hunter.

I'm worried about his neck.

And while I get the value of edge rushers, its not easy to find a LBer that can QB a defense, be a hitter and also a terrific pass defender.

Money is a factor too. Hunter already makes significantly more than Kendricks and is complaining about his contract.

I get what your saying esp if Hunter actually is wanting an enormous contract. But our pass rush would remain very poor w/o him and no draft stock.

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Post #: 469

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:24:09 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

Signing bonus is the biggest part of the cap hit. We converted a lot of Cousins last year's base to bonus and added years. But the new/acquiring team doesn't have that count against their cap. Think Diggs.

I last read that the acquiring team for Cousins would essentially get him for a 2 year/28M deal. No idea if the timing of the trade impacts that number or how.

But that is a very friendly number. I wouldn't trade for less than a 2021 first and exchange of picks or something in 2022.

Stafford might be the slightly better QB but is often injured. Cousins is an iron man.

I would be open to then giving up both 1sts in 2021, some of our extra mid-rounders in 2021, and our 2022 first. Think that is enough for Watson? It's way more than what Rams gave for Stafford. Rams essentially gave a 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd (future picks devalued about a round per year).

Rudy, Reiff, for sure would be gone.

Stafford has played in all 16 games 9 of the past 10 years.

Wasn't he out in games the last two years? What was he out for?

EDIT: He didn't miss time in 2020. Was out for broken bones in his back in 2019, an injury that happened in 2018. That skewed my perceptions. I was wrong, let me say "oft injured but rarely misses games"

< Message edited by Pager -- 2/1/2021 6:29:25 PM >

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Post #: 470

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:28:27 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77909
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The San Francisco 49ers have offered their 2nd and 4th round draft picks, along with Jimmy Garoppolo to the Minnesota Vikings for Kirk Cousins.

Vikings want a 1st.

From Vikings Central

Signing bonus is the biggest part of the cap hit. We converted a lot of Cousins last year's base to bonus and added years. But the new/acquiring team doesn't have that count against their cap. Think Diggs.

I last read that the acquiring team for Cousins would essentially get him for a 2 year/28M deal. No idea if the timing of the trade impacts that number or how.

But that is a very friendly number. I wouldn't trade for less than a 2021 first and exchange of picks or something in 2022.

Stafford might be the slightly better QB but is often injured. Cousins is an iron man.

I would be open to then giving up both 1sts in 2021, some of our extra mid-rounders in 2021, and our 2022 first. Think that is enough for Watson? It's way more than what Rams gave for Stafford. Rams essentially gave a 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd (future picks devalued about a round per year).

Rudy, Reiff, for sure would be gone.

Stafford has played in all 16 games 9 of the past 10 years.

Wasn't he out in games the last two years? What was he out for?

EDIT: He didn't miss time in 2020. Was out for broken bones in his back in 2019, an injury that happened in 2018.

Right. Non-displaced fracture. Doesn't appear to be something that is recurrent or degenerative.

Post #: 471

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:29:20 PM

David Levine

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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Supposedly Houston wants two #1s, two #2s and two young (and obviously very good) defensive players.

Post #: 472

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:38:09 PM

David F.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Supposedly Houston wants two #1s, two #2s and two young (and obviously very good) defensive players.

What they want is not as important as what they’d take.

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Post #: 473

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:41:39 PM

Bill Jandro

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Hou would be best off dealing with perrenial losers like the Jets. But then again Hou isn't very smart.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2021 6:43:09 PM

Bruce Johnson

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If the Niners include a number 2 next year and swap first round selections this year I do it.

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Post #: 475