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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 10:36:28 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm
I don't know how much flexibility Vikings QBs under Zimmer have had to audible. He is a control freak extraordinaire, and other than Case, his QBs have all exhibited risk aversion and almost robotic progression through the options. That can't be a coincidence, IMO, but I obviously don't know for sure.

What's Zim going to do? Bench Cousins and start Manion?

If you start 0-4, you start the rookie. It's time to turn the page.

If Cousins keeps playing the way he is playing and you do that, you lose the whole team.

Maybe if it was Fields. But not Mond.

Fields looked mediocre, at-best, yesterday.

At 0-4, you've already lost the team.

Just be objective for once. Cousins has been a Top 10 QB these 1st two games.

I'm pretty sure, if Joseph makes that kick, that you wouldn't be posting this week.
Post #: 5151
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 10:38:16 AM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H
...
Fields looked mediocre, at-best, yesterday.
...


OTOH, Fields is playing for Chicago. So he'd almost certainly be doing better elsewhere.

Kinda like pretty much anybody who plays for Detroit.

I didn't think the kid looked very good at all. Outside of the ability to take off and run, he looked a long ways from being a great quarterback. Andy Dalton should remain the starter in Chicago unless he is hurt badly.

Zach Wilson looked terrible. Trevor Lawrence looks overwhelmed with a terrible team around him.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/20/2021 10:39:29 AM >


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Post #: 5152
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 10:38:46 AM   
Jeff Jesser


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From: Southern Cal
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I was encouraged but yet worried about this year. I pointed to not having an established kicker and the OLine as the "problems" before TC ended. That being said you didn't have to be rocket surgeon to figure those out.

After 2 weeks I'm done. Will still watch but this team is going nowhere. I can't believe the passing D (the secondary in particular) is so bad. I bought the built in excuses last year but not this year. Breeland is an absolute disaster and Smith is riding his reputation and a new found long term deal. Watch the Murray TD run again and watch Smith. Instead of attacking him he passively waits for him and tries to meet him at the goal line. Probably both would end up the same result but I'd rather the guy go down swinging. He's not that guy anymore and we're stuck with him.
Post #: 5153
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 10:39:53 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H
...
Fields looked mediocre, at-best, yesterday.
...


OTOH, Fields is playing for Chicago. So he'd almost certainly be doing better elsewhere.

Kinda like pretty much anybody who plays for Detroit.

Bears have some good skill players.

Nagy probably overrated because of Mahomes.
Post #: 5154
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 10:40:52 AM   
Jeff Jesser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

The game turned on Zimmer's decision making and clock management in the last two minutes of the first half. That was as bad as it gets.



IMO, it was even before that. After we missed the extra point, what coach in the NFL doesn't go for 2 on the very next TD to try and even it back up? We had multiple chances to get that point back and never even tried and, thus, let it get to the point where the K is on the hook to be the fall guy. All on coaching.
Post #: 5155
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 10:41:38 AM   
ronhextall


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Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.
Post #: 5156
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 10:43:45 AM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/20/2021 10:49:43 AM >


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Post #: 5157
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 10:59:24 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I was a bit surprised to hear on the broadcast that Kirk Cousins has just 16 game-winning drives in his career. The dude is in his 10th year in the league.

Russell Wilson came into the league the same year and has 31. Heck, Andy Dalton has 27. Jay Cutler had 28 in one more season. Derek Carr has 24 in two less seasons. Ryan Tannehill has 22 in one less year.

For a guy that makes $8-million more than Tom Brady, this kind of production is unacceptable.


Should of had two more the last two weeks...would of had 2-3 more last year with a decent defense....about as cherry picked of a stat there is.

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Post #: 5158
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:03:35 AM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.
Post #: 5159
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:03:39 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


NO and Arizona Defenses were good in week 1...when both teams move the ball and are loaded on offense you can't always keep teams under 20 points......that is today's NFL.

There were three plays that killed the defense....the Moore Reception end of half that led to a FG, the bounced INT that turned into the big Maxx Williams gain, and Weatherly not keeping Moore in the pocket that resulted in a broken coverage and Moore TD....

Dig deeper and see how many plays the defense was/were on the field this week and last and get back to me.

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Post #: 5160
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:08:21 AM   
Phil Riewer


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MN 64 plays
Arz 62 plays

There was talk during the Bears/Cincy game that the Cincy Defense had to play 82 plays the week before and it might take them a half just to get their bearings....

If you want an explosive offense and explosive shutdown defense; there better be plenty of run plays. It isn't Zimmer ball; you need it to keep the Defense fresh.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/20/2021 11:09:41 AM >


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Post #: 5161
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:13:48 AM   
Brad H


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The Rondale Moore TD was embarrassing. We didn't have a DB in the same area code.

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Post #: 5162
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:13:58 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10805
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5163
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:18:11 AM   
GopherFan34

 

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One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares.
Post #: 5164
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:19:58 AM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 20 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/20/2021 11:25:02 AM >


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Post #: 5165
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:24:50 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 11898
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 27 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal.

Did you watch the game?

That was quick. Editing out the 44 yard FG.
Post #: 5166
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:25:51 AM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 27 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal.

Did you watch the game?

Sorry, misspoke on the numbers. 20-yard line.

_____________________________

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Post #: 5167
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:28:38 AM   
Daniel Lee Young


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Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
Says the guy who spends a lot of time hitting 44 yard chip shots on a golf course…

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Post #: 5168
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:28:42 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 11898
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 27 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal.

Did you watch the game?

Sorry, misspoke on the numbers. 20-yard line.

Okay. Sorry for the snark.

But, in the world of analytics, a 37 yard FG versus going for a TD in that situation. Probably 90% versus 30%.
Post #: 5169
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:29:04 AM   
Brad H


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Things we needed fixed during the off-season:

1) O-Line
2) Defense
3) Kicking Game

It's starting to look as if we went 0-3 from January to September.

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Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5170
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:29:20 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 25930
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From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GopherFan34

One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares.


We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG.

Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss.

Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/20/2021 11:30:27 AM >


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Post #: 5171
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:29:41 AM   
kevinemmer


Posts: 4638
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From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

There was a lot of improvement on offense , but our head coaches, specialty, defense, was a sieve..

Running game was on point, and pass pro was not horrible at first, but pass pro weakened, on a downward slope all, game, long.

Maybe conditioning and playing the OL a lot more in P S might have helped.

Penalties were way down, which is a good thing.

Nick Vigil and Erik Kendricks, played well, safeties were “ adequate”, CB’s in coverage, and the DL, side to side and up the gut, in contain and run support, were, quite frankly, pathetic.

The DL brought pressure on most pass plays, but Murry’s mobility and ability to throw on the run, killed our secondary.

Westbrook is not a punt returner.. FFS don’t field punts inside the 15 and run backwards, signal fair catch and let what happens, happen..

Westbrook helped Arizona flip the field with just plain stupid play.

I’d cut him.

We came out on FIRE, looked like world beaters, then reverted to Zimmerball.

Played conservative, let Arizona get back in with big plays, ended up losing, wide right…

Where have we lived that Sunday before?

Forever.

Fire Zimmer, ditch Spielman.

Do it now.


Good stuff Danno!
Post #: 5172
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:30:14 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22448
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 27 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal.

Did you watch the game?

Sorry, misspoke on the numbers. 20-yard line.

Okay. Sorry for the snark.

But, in the world of analytics, a 37 yard FG versus going for a TD in that situation. Probably 90% versus 30%.

Just keep pushing forward. The other team had given up 419 yards at that point.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5173
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:31:02 AM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12529
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
Brad knows that a 37 yarder chip shot can go wherever the ball striker hits it + spin and wind.. thank you Captain obvious…

For damn sure I was standing there, watching, saying “ run ham up the gut then take the TO at 4 seconds


I’d have kicked even if ham was stuffed..

Our FG kicker was money at mid and long… fn money.. till he Gary Anderson slipped one sideways…

He is not my goat for this loss..

It’s turtle coaching to protect a lead.

And his big hiring point was Defensive Guru…

Now Zimmer is a Jim Jones handing out koolaid to fans, players and management, like he invented the idea.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 9/20/2021 11:40:08 AM >


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Post #: 5174
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 11:31:25 AM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


NO and Arizona Defenses were good in week 1...when both teams move the ball and are loaded on offense you can't always keep teams under 20 points......that is today's NFL.

There were three plays that killed the defense....the Moore Reception end of half that led to a FG, the bounced INT that turned into the big Maxx Williams gain, and Weatherly not keeping Moore in the pocket that resulted in a broken coverage and Moore TD....

Dig deeper and see how many plays the defense was/were on the field this week and last and get back to me.

Weatherly wasn't in great position, but clearly the secondary blew the Moore TD. The secondary is abysmal, and that is 100% on Zimmer and Spielman. More resources have been dedicated to that group in their regime than any other by far, and it is full of holes and weak tackling. That is Zimmer's bailiwick, and after all these years here we are....again.

This regime has told its tale. If they don't contend for a championship this year, goodbye.
Post #: 5175
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