quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Has any head coach been with a team as long as Zimmer without winning a Super Bowl and did eventually?

Count me in the camp of “message gets old after a while and just time to move on”.

Andy Reid. But he drafted speed and stud QB.

Zim is going to have to win the SB this (current) season to match Reid...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Has any head coach been with a team as long as Zimmer without winning a Super Bowl and did eventually?

Count me in the camp of “message gets old after a while and just time to move on”.

Andy Reid. But he drafted speed and stud QB.

Zim is going to have to win the SB this (current) season to match Reid...

Nope. Reid won in his 7th season, Zimmer has completed 7 seasons in Minny.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Has any head coach been with a team as long as Zimmer without winning a Super Bowl and did eventually?

Count me in the camp of “message gets old after a while and just time to move on”.

Andy Reid. But he drafted speed and stud QB.

Zim is going to have to win the SB this (current) season to match Reid...

Nope. Reid won in his 7th season, Zimmer has completed 7 seasons in Minny.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Has any head coach been with a team as long as Zimmer without winning a Super Bowl and did eventually?

Count me in the camp of “message gets old after a while and just time to move on”.

Andy Reid. But he drafted speed and stud QB.

Zim is going to have to win the SB this (current) season to match Reid...

Nope. Reid won in his 7th season, Zimmer has completed 7 seasons in Minny.

That's what I said.

Zim needs to win THIS Super Bowl.

I mean, its going to be tricky, but its what he needs to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Has any head coach been with a team as long as Zimmer without winning a Super Bowl and did eventually?

Count me in the camp of “message gets old after a while and just time to move on”.

Andy Reid. But he drafted speed and stud QB.

Zim is going to have to win the SB this (current) season to match Reid...

Nope. Reid won in his 7th season, Zimmer has completed 7 seasons in Minny.

Kind of close though...Reid had all the Experience in Philly.....same as Belichik. Browns coach first then came back under Parcells and then became coach.

Difference is those two had a ton of experience as HC.....Maybe why Kubiak, Norv, etc. are brought in and leave.

Just good enough to win titles and a playoff game or two....needs to step it up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

The biggest problem with this team seems to be at the top (Wilfs>Spielman>Zimmer). The short term solution would seem to be whatever changes the top. I'd like to see the Wilfs sell, since they don't seem up to the task of delivering a Super Bowl. Since that probably won't happen soon, whatever gets Spielman and Zimmer axed comes next. I say give Zimmer what he wants and then shit-can both when that doesn't work.

Run-first and control-but-don't-attack defense doesn't work in the NFL today, IMO. We've tried it, and it delivers 7-10 wins per year with outliers, but doesn't get close to the summit.

I am seriously curious what more the owners can do?

The team is not being led by someone cheap like the previous owner and the current owners of the Twins.

They've spent to improve facilities, upgrade to the best technology etc.

Is it just that they don't have a quick trigger on firing coaches that you don't like?

I guess I can understand that. I am ready to move on from RS and Zim. But they have success and then they they don't. Sometimes when you get ownership that meddles too much it is a detriment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Has any head coach been with a team as long as Zimmer without winning a Super Bowl and did eventually?

Count me in the camp of “message gets old after a while and just time to move on”.

Andy Reid. But he drafted speed and stud QB.

Zim is going to have to win the SB this (current) season to match Reid...

Nope. Reid won in his 7th season, Zimmer has completed 7 seasons in Minny.

Kind of close though...Reid had all the Experience in Philly.....same as Belichik. Browns coach first then came back under Parcells and then became coach.

Difference is those two had a ton of experience as HC.....Maybe why Kubiak, Norv, etc. are brought in and leave.

Just good enough to win titles and a playoff game or two....needs to step it up.

How is it "kind of close"? What is "kind of close"? Zimmer here can't even get past the first round!

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

The biggest problem with this team seems to be at the top (Wilfs>Spielman>Zimmer). The short term solution would seem to be whatever changes the top. I'd like to see the Wilfs sell, since they don't seem up to the task of delivering a Super Bowl. Since that probably won't happen soon, whatever gets Spielman and Zimmer axed comes next. I say give Zimmer what he wants and then shit-can both when that doesn't work.

Run-first and control-but-don't-attack defense doesn't work in the NFL today, IMO. We've tried it, and it delivers 7-10 wins per year with outliers, but doesn't get close to the summit.

I am seriously curious what more the owners can do?

The team is not being led by someone cheap like the previous owner and the current owners of the Twins.

They've spent to improve facilities, upgrade to the best technology etc.

Is it just that they don't have a quick trigger on firing coaches that you don't like?

I guess I can understand that. I am ready to move on from RS and Zim. But they have success and then they they don't. Sometimes when you get ownership that meddles too much it is a detriment.

Hire people capable of winning the championship, if that is truly the point of the exercise. Extending them as well as Kirk is the problem I have, and in some ways I have less of a problem with Kirk's extension than theirs.

I agree that at least they spend and they don't seem overly meddlesome, but sticking with this regime---and doubling down going into the season---is troubling at best. I like Zim and Spielman as people (as far as I can tell), but they shouldn't be the ones doing this rebuild---especially since they tried and failed dramatically with the soft rebuild this year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Has any head coach been with a team as long as Zimmer without winning a Super Bowl and did eventually?

Count me in the camp of “message gets old after a while and just time to move on”.

Andy Reid. But he drafted speed and stud QB.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

The biggest problem with this team seems to be at the top (Wilfs>Spielman>Zimmer). The short term solution would seem to be whatever changes the top. I'd like to see the Wilfs sell, since they don't seem up to the task of delivering a Super Bowl. Since that probably won't happen soon, whatever gets Spielman and Zimmer axed comes next. I say give Zimmer what he wants and then shit-can both when that doesn't work.

Run-first and control-but-don't-attack defense doesn't work in the NFL today, IMO. We've tried it, and it delivers 7-10 wins per year with outliers, but doesn't get close to the summit.

I am seriously curious what more the owners can do?

The team is not being led by someone cheap like the previous owner and the current owners of the Twins.

They've spent to improve facilities, upgrade to the best technology etc.

Is it just that they don't have a quick trigger on firing coaches that you don't like?

I guess I can understand that. I am ready to move on from RS and Zim. But they have success and then they they don't. Sometimes when you get ownership that meddles too much it is a detriment.

Quick trigger? Where Spielman and Zimmer are concerned, you can't even see quick trigger in the rear view mirror anymore. I would have settled for not giving them yet another 3 year extension. Very few organizations would tolerate this level of mediocrity for as many years as a the Wilf's have.

Can you tell us one organization who dumped a HC with 3 division championships in 7 seasons and an overall .576 winning record?

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

For what it's worth (nothing) my memory says Cowher's Steelers got the full Green Bay treatment in their super bowl that they won over the Seahawks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

The biggest problem with this team seems to be at the top (Wilfs>Spielman>Zimmer). The short term solution would seem to be whatever changes the top. I'd like to see the Wilfs sell, since they don't seem up to the task of delivering a Super Bowl. Since that probably won't happen soon, whatever gets Spielman and Zimmer axed comes next. I say give Zimmer what he wants and then shit-can both when that doesn't work.

Run-first and control-but-don't-attack defense doesn't work in the NFL today, IMO. We've tried it, and it delivers 7-10 wins per year with outliers, but doesn't get close to the summit.

I am seriously curious what more the owners can do?

The team is not being led by someone cheap like the previous owner and the current owners of the Twins.

They've spent to improve facilities, upgrade to the best technology etc.

Is it just that they don't have a quick trigger on firing coaches that you don't like?

I guess I can understand that. I am ready to move on from RS and Zim. But they have success and then they they don't. Sometimes when you get ownership that meddles too much it is a detriment.

Quick trigger? Where Spielman and Zimmer are concerned, you can't even see quick trigger in the rear view mirror anymore. I would have settled for not giving them yet another 3 year extension. Very few organizations would tolerate this level of mediocrity for as many years as a the Wilf's have.

Can you tell us one organization who dumped a HC with 3 division championships in 7 seasons and an overall .576 winning record?

Now put it in the context of this team being billed as having the talent to win every year, yet missing the playoffs 4 out of 8 years. If the talent underachieves, it's time to look at the coach.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

The biggest problem with this team seems to be at the top (Wilfs>Spielman>Zimmer). The short term solution would seem to be whatever changes the top. I'd like to see the Wilfs sell, since they don't seem up to the task of delivering a Super Bowl. Since that probably won't happen soon, whatever gets Spielman and Zimmer axed comes next. I say give Zimmer what he wants and then shit-can both when that doesn't work.

Run-first and control-but-don't-attack defense doesn't work in the NFL today, IMO. We've tried it, and it delivers 7-10 wins per year with outliers, but doesn't get close to the summit.

I am seriously curious what more the owners can do?

The team is not being led by someone cheap like the previous owner and the current owners of the Twins.

They've spent to improve facilities, upgrade to the best technology etc.

Is it just that they don't have a quick trigger on firing coaches that you don't like?

I guess I can understand that. I am ready to move on from RS and Zim. But they have success and then they they don't. Sometimes when you get ownership that meddles too much it is a detriment.

Quick trigger? Where Spielman and Zimmer are concerned, you can't even see quick trigger in the rear view mirror anymore. I would have settled for not giving them yet another 3 year extension. Very few organizations would tolerate this level of mediocrity for as many years as a the Wilf's have.

Can you tell us one organization who dumped a HC with 3 division championships in 7 seasons and an overall .576 winning record?

Now put it in the context of this team being billed as having the talent to win every year, yet missing the playoffs 4 out of 8 years. If the talent underachieves, it's time to look at the coach.

What talent is that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm
As an addendum, how does Mr Cornerback Coach lose his whole CB room at once? How is that, at least in large part, on him?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

The biggest problem with this team seems to be at the top (Wilfs>Spielman>Zimmer). The short term solution would seem to be whatever changes the top. I'd like to see the Wilfs sell, since they don't seem up to the task of delivering a Super Bowl. Since that probably won't happen soon, whatever gets Spielman and Zimmer axed comes next. I say give Zimmer what he wants and then shit-can both when that doesn't work.

Run-first and control-but-don't-attack defense doesn't work in the NFL today, IMO. We've tried it, and it delivers 7-10 wins per year with outliers, but doesn't get close to the summit.

I am seriously curious what more the owners can do?

The team is not being led by someone cheap like the previous owner and the current owners of the Twins.

They've spent to improve facilities, upgrade to the best technology etc.

Is it just that they don't have a quick trigger on firing coaches that you don't like?

I guess I can understand that. I am ready to move on from RS and Zim. But they have success and then they they don't. Sometimes when you get ownership that meddles too much it is a detriment.

Quick trigger? Where Spielman and Zimmer are concerned, you can't even see quick trigger in the rear view mirror anymore. I would have settled for not giving them yet another 3 year extension. Very few organizations would tolerate this level of mediocrity for as many years as a the Wilf's have.

Can you tell us one organization who dumped a HC with 3 division championships in 7 seasons and an overall .576 winning record?

Now put it in the context of this team being billed as having the talent to win every year, yet missing the playoffs 4 out of 8 years. If the talent underachieves, it's time to look at the coach.

What talent is that?

The talent this leadership amassed; if it's inadequate, that's on them. Zimmer gets to sign off on defensive players, clearly. He also has input on offensive players and how they play offense. If we make the play-offs one year and miss the next over and over, what happens in those off years? Injuries, sometimes, but also underachievement and discord. Remember the DB rebellion in GB? Diggs wanting out because of the offensive style, and then lighting the league on fire his first year out? The best team he's had, in 2017, sucked in the playoffs.

This regime has had its chance, and the current group is at or approaching the nadir. How long do you keep running it back with "if onlys?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

As an addendum, how does Mr Cornerback Coach lose his whole CB room at once? How is that, at least in large part, on him?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm
As an addendum, how does Mr Cornerback Coach lose his whole CB room at once? How is that, at least in large part, on him?

Prob part of the reason he got another year.....Salary cap issue. (Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander)....but I would still trade Dantzler, Gladney, and whomever is the third going into next year---I think we will be better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I didn't know any defender had a good game vs the Saints for the Vikings.
****

Armon Watts vs the Saints was one of the best single game performances any defensive player had this year....

he was on his game, processing plays fast, holding the POA, stacking and shedding, overall a very very good performance with little to no NFL talent surrounding him

(Spencer Thompson on Twitter)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Our young corners would have looked even better if there had been some semblance of a pass rush. I'm going to chalk Hughes play to that he is now damaged goods. He seemed to be showing some promise his rookie season before he got hurt and I don't think he ever got right again. I could be wrong. Regardless, I do like what I see from this years crop.