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RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 7:33:59 AM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Mahomes doesn't have a great team around him, he strongly elevates them.

Your theory only works for a Mahomes type though (who didn't make the SB with an upgraded Oline)....also his extension kicks in next year.

Find the next Mahomes; great idea.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4276

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 7:36:02 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Adam Thielen
@athielen19
·
55m
If you just get a stop on defense both teams get a possession! Go down and score a touchdown on first possession of overtime and you deserve to win! twitter.com/brgridiron/sta…

---

Me: Same rules as before only first TD in regulation gets choice in OT - that'll add a little spice yet be at least as fair as a coin flip

What if regulation score is 2-2?

Doesn't 2-0 win!? I'm not sure but I'd bet $1

Post #: 4277

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 7:37:50 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Adam Thielen
@athielen19
·
55m
If you just get a stop on defense both teams get a possession! Go down and score a touchdown on first possession of overtime and you deserve to win! twitter.com/brgridiron/sta…

---

Me: Same rules as before only first TD in regulation gets choice in OT - that'll add a little spice yet be at least as fair as a coin flip

What if regulation score is 2-2?

Doesn't 2-0 win!? I'm not sure but I'd bet $1

Oh duh! You got me!

Post #: 4278

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 8:33:13 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Well, you guys got Zimmer on your side - there's that ...

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
10h
SHOTS FIRED: Former #Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer openly complained about Kirk Cousins in meetings and claimed he didn't make enough winning plays, per Chad Graff of The Athletic...

Well that's an endorsement for Cousins.

I may have to go back and re-think my position. Even though I've said the same thing ...

But freakin' Zimmer ...

Great minds...

Not where I stand....he also told the FO he could rebuild the defense the last two years....it would be the opposite of an endorsement. Ill eat crow when a Case, Teddy, or Ponder type make the playoffs. There is a clone of Lamar Jackson there at 12....Lamar hasn't won it yet either and he is the RB and QB for that team.

Careful for what you wish for guys.

In your rush to defend the indefensible, you missed the point.

If I complained about Putin you'd point out how far the Russian military had to drive and the price of gas ... giving the Ukrainians an unfair advantage.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 3/1/2022 9:01:10 AM >

Post #: 4279

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 8:42:24 AM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Phil

My point wasn't we need to find the next Mahomes (which is also a good idea), my point was about Mahomes in response to this:

Mahomes, Tom, Joe, Matt, and Josh have great teams built around them.

There can be other great QBs out there, and ones that are more clutch, and win more than Kirk. Just get a top 15 QB that wins more, and is more clutch than Kirk.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4280

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 9:02:30 AM

lyle chabot

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Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

Any thoughts on the idea that the new head coach and O coordinator know cousins well and may be able to get more out of him than Zimmer did.

Post #: 4281

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 9:06:29 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Phil

My point wasn't we need to find the next Mahomes (which is also a good idea), my point was about Mahomes in response to this:

Mahomes, Tom, Joe, Matt, and Josh have great teams built around them.

There can be other great QBs out there, and ones that are more clutch, and win more than Kirk. Just get a top 15 QB that wins more, and is more clutch than Kirk.

Clutch...look up GW drives.

Look up how far 29th and 30th ranked defenses do. Look up how much you will have to pay that top 15 QB (which we already have).

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 3/1/2022 9:08:16 AM >

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Post #: 4282

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 9:45:07 AM

Daniel Lee Young

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Status: offline

Top 15 in stats is nothing..if that’s what you are humping your pillow over, I pity you.

Looked at QB ranging by win percentage..

16 out of 32.. meh

Bryan Hoyer, Teddy Bridgewater, and Chase Daniel have better winning %

Garappalo and Daniel’s have better completion %,

Seven Qb have lower int rate %

Kirk cousins is a game stat workout warrior .

What is ignored is ..he can’t win, he can’t read a defense, he is slow to go thru his progression reads and he can’t throw guys open.

Throw to guys who are open? About as often as he throw a ****ing wormburner or sideline kite/ balloon, incomplete into double coverage forcing his receiver to become Defensive back.

Next we will be hearing how KFC has more average yards per game than Aaron Rogers, so he is the better QB.

NOTHING Kirk Cousins has done, now or in the past, warrants a cap hit of 21%.

Nothing.

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**** you all.

Post #: 4283

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 10:12:27 AM

Trekgeekscott

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From: United Federation of Planets
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Kirk Cousins to me is not the answer.

But

If we unload him....Who plays QB for the Minnesota Vikings?

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Post #: 4284

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 10:16:48 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 13946
Status: offline

Until we get the cap figured out, there is a whole lot more that is wrong with this team being competitive, than just who plays QB.

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**** you all.

Post #: 4285

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 10:18:04 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 13946
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2 weeks to fix the cap, and as far as I see, nothing is changing, yet.

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**** you all.

Post #: 4286

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 10:19:19 AM

Trekgeekscott

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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Until we get the cap figured out, there is a whole lot more that is wrong with this team being competitive, than just who plays QB.

True.

I would trade Cook, Cousins, and restructure Hunter, Smith, and Theilen

Ooodles of cap space then.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 4287

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 10:20:03 AM

Trekgeekscott

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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

2 weeks to fix the cap, and as far as I see, nothing is changing, yet.

2 weeks is an eternity in this regard. There's plenty of time to get under the cap.

And who says they aren't working on it behind the scenes?

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 4288

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 10:22:09 AM

Trekgeekscott

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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lyle chabot

Any thoughts on the idea that the new head coach and O coordinator know cousins well and may be able to get more out of him than Zimmer did.

Ifs and Buts

I am tired of the 'well maybe' way of thinking wrt the QB position.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 4289

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 10:33:53 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28532
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: lyle chabot

Any thoughts on the idea that the new head coach and O coordinator know cousins well and may be able to get more out of him than Zimmer did.

Ifs and Buts

I am tired of the 'well maybe' way of thinking wrt the QB position.

Not to mention KOC was Cousins QB coach, and he didn't get more out of him.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 3/1/2022 10:35:16 AM >

Post #: 4290

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 11:25:54 AM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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I think KOC got Kirk to throw more INTs than he had ever thrown in a season, correct me if I am wrong on that.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4291

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 11:46:05 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Until we get the cap figured out, there is a whole lot more that is wrong with this team being competitive, than just who plays QB.

True.

I would trade Cook, Cousins, and restructure Hunter, Smith, and Theilen

Ooodles of cap space then.

I agree on Cook and 50% on Cousins (it has to be a good deal and we need a decent solution after the trade). I think they will look into trading/restructure of Hunter, Smith, Thielen and I think trading/restructure/cut of Pierce.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 3/1/2022 11:47:12 AM >

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Post #: 4292

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 11:47:35 AM

David F.

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Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Phil

My point wasn't we need to find the next Mahomes (which is also a good idea), my point was about Mahomes in response to this:

Mahomes, Tom, Joe, Matt, and Josh have great teams built around them.

There can be other great QBs out there, and ones that are more clutch, and win more than Kirk. Just get a top 15 QB that wins more, and is more clutch than Kirk.

Clutch...look up GW drives.

Look up how far 29th and 30th ranked defenses do. Look up how much you will have to pay that top 15 QB (which we already have).

He doesn't have that many GW drives. 20 for his career. Less than Jon Kitna, Mark Brunell, Alex Smith, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Joe Flacco, Jake Delhomme, Dave Krieg, Boomer Esiason, Ryan Tannehill, Jay Cutler, Jake Plummer, Kerry Collins, Derek Carr, Vinny Testeverde, Carson Palmer, and Matthew Stafford. Matthew Stafford has more than double the GW drives than Cousins.

Interesting tidbit on Stafford, in 2016 he engineered EIGHT GW drives for Detroit, who went 9-7 that season. De-fricking-troit.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

< Message edited by David F. -- 3/1/2022 11:49:53 AM >

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4293

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 1:25:08 PM

marty

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How about game winning drives in December and January ?

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Post #: 4294

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 1:37:26 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Phil

My point wasn't we need to find the next Mahomes (which is also a good idea), my point was about Mahomes in response to this:

Mahomes, Tom, Joe, Matt, and Josh have great teams built around them.

There can be other great QBs out there, and ones that are more clutch, and win more than Kirk. Just get a top 15 QB that wins more, and is more clutch than Kirk.

Clutch...look up GW drives.

Look up how far 29th and 30th ranked defenses do. Look up how much you will have to pay that top 15 QB (which we already have).

He doesn't have that many GW drives. 20 for his career. Less than Jon Kitna, Mark Brunell, Alex Smith, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Joe Flacco, Jake Delhomme, Dave Krieg, Boomer Esiason, Ryan Tannehill, Jay Cutler, Jake Plummer, Kerry Collins, Derek Carr, Vinny Testeverde, Carson Palmer, and Matthew Stafford. Matthew Stafford has more than double the GW drives than Cousins.

Interesting tidbit on Stafford, in 2016 he engineered EIGHT GW drives for Detroit, who went 9-7 that season. De-fricking-troit.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

He had 4...but look into it. Detroit, Cincy, and Arizona would have been 3 more.

_____________________________

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Post #: 4295

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 5:23:42 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Phil

My point wasn't we need to find the next Mahomes (which is also a good idea), my point was about Mahomes in response to this:

Mahomes, Tom, Joe, Matt, and Josh have great teams built around them.

There can be other great QBs out there, and ones that are more clutch, and win more than Kirk. Just get a top 15 QB that wins more, and is more clutch than Kirk.

Clutch...look up GW drives.

Look up how far 29th and 30th ranked defenses do. Look up how much you will have to pay that top 15 QB (which we already have).

He doesn't have that many GW drives. 20 for his career. Less than Jon Kitna, Mark Brunell, Alex Smith, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Joe Flacco, Jake Delhomme, Dave Krieg, Boomer Esiason, Ryan Tannehill, Jay Cutler, Jake Plummer, Kerry Collins, Derek Carr, Vinny Testeverde, Carson Palmer, and Matthew Stafford. Matthew Stafford has more than double the GW drives than Cousins.

Interesting tidbit on Stafford, in 2016 he engineered EIGHT GW drives for Detroit, who went 9-7 that season. De-fricking-troit.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

He had 4...but look into it. Detroit, Cincy, and Arizona would have been 3 more.

Wait. The Lions? [insert sound effect of whipflash]

You want to give Cousins credit for a 4th qtr comeback 'that should have been' because he scored on his last drive ... even though the Lions scored a touchdown on their final drive to win the game?

So it's not just that Cousins drove the team into position and somebody else effed up like Cook and Joseph ... now you are including other teams that score last ... they should not affect Cousins 'near comeback' record either?

Phil you have outdone yourself. The audacity of it ... I can't even wrap my head around the spectacular lameness of your argument. Congratulations.

And what about the Cincy and AZ 'near comebacks' that you keep prattling off like scripture? Should Cousins be given partial 'clutch' credit when two of the three drives BEFORE the final 'almost clutch' drives were 3 and outs?

Nope.

AZ vs MN
Joseph missed kick
The 3 MN drives before the missed kick: Punt (4th QTR, 3 and out), Punt (4th QTR, 3 and out), Field Goal (3rd QTR,10 plays)

CIN vs MN
Cook Fumble
The 3 MN drives before the fumble: Punt (OT, 3 and out), FG (4th QTR, 9 plays), Punt (4th QTR, 3 and out)

Yes, Cousins should have racked up 4th qtr game winning drives against AZ CIN, he played really well on those drives.

But you can't just give credit to Cousins for the positive and dismiss the negative. That's just the way it is for all QBs ... too much credit and too much criticism.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 3/1/2022 5:46:21 PM >

Post #: 4296

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 5:43:22 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

From Combine presser ...

Will Ragatz@WillRagatz ·4h

Kwesi Adofo-Mensah says Danielle Hunter was one of the first people he spoke to. “He’s somebody we want to work with going forward.”

Will Ragatz@WillRagatz ·1h

Kwesi Adofo-Mensah said he's talked to Kirk Cousins and Kirk's agent.

"Those conversations are ongoing...we will do whatever's best for the Minnesota Vikings and Kirk will do what's best for Kirk. But I think there's a lot of middle ground for us to work well together."

"He's under contract, Kirk's our quarterback. He's a really good player. I think he's going to play at a high level for us given all the things Kevin wants to do with him."

BUT (and this should go without saying): "Everything's in play with every player."

Will Ragatz@WillRagatz·8h

News here on assistant position coaches being retained or hired, new quality control coaches (including Ed Donatell’s son Steve), and more.

An interesting one is former 49ers front office staffer Ryan Cordell being hired as pass game specialist/game management coordinator.

Kwesi Adofo-Mensah: "We love Ezra [Cleveland]. We think he's going to take a next step in our scheme. We like what we've seen out of him and we think he's going to take that next jump this year."

Post #: 4297

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 5:46:45 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28532
Status: offline

But you can't just give credit to Cousins for the positive and dismiss the negative.

Oh yes he can.

Post #: 4298

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 5:52:23 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28532
Status: offline

...being hired as pass game specialist/game management coordinator.

Thought they already brought in one of those guys. Maybe it was pass game coordinator/game management specialist.

How the hell did Fran Tarkenton and others do it by themselves? Or Kenny Stabler... he used to get wasted Saturday night then lay waste to defenses on Sunday.

Post #: 4299

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 6:07:36 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

...being hired as pass game specialist/game management coordinator.

Thought they already brought in one of those guys. Maybe it was pass game coordinator/game management specialist.

How the hell did Fran Tarkenton and others do it by themselves? Or Kenny Stabler... he used to get wasted Saturday night then lay waste to defenses on Sunday.

Stabler analytics:

last two minutes of game = last call ... get it done.

Post #: 4300