quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I did some analysis of the complicated relationships of the trades that eventually landed us Cine and Booth.

Despite me not being a fan of the Detroit trade the draft capitol to get Cine and Booth was almost 100% from that trade with some bonus.
From Detroit. Pick 32 directly used to acquire Cine
From Detroit: Pick 34 used to acquire 53 and 59
Booth and pick 122 acquired using picks 53 and 77 and some very late pick not sure which number. 77 was our own entering the draft, but we got 66 in the Detroit trade more than compensating for that. We did have to give our #46 but we still had 59 and 122 left over when all the dust settled. So I think it's fair to say that pick 12 got us both Cine and Booth.
In the end IMO the compensation was worth the trade.

If we stand pat, we got pick 12 and 46, who's to say that Booth isn't still there at 46? Or we toss somebody a 5th or so to move up to 42.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I did some analysis of the complicated relationships of the trades that eventually landed us Cine and Booth.

Despite me not being a fan of the Detroit trade the draft capitol to get Cine and Booth was almost 100% from that trade with some bonus.
From Detroit. Pick 32 directly used to acquire Cine
From Detroit: Pick 34 used to acquire 53 and 59
Booth and pick 122 acquired using picks 53 and 77 and some very late pick not sure which number. 77 was our own entering the draft, but we got 66 in the Detroit trade more than compensating for that. We did have to give our #46 but we still had 59 and 122 left over when all the dust settled. So I think it's fair to say that pick 12 got us both Cine and Booth.
In the end IMO the compensation was worth the trade.

If we stand pat, we got pick 12 and 46, who's to say that Booth isn't still there at 46? Or we toss somebody a 5th or so to move up to 42.

You know it wasn’t just those two picks. He recouped the 4th, had four in the top 100 and ended up with 10 picks.

Also they moved up in the 2nd third and fourth round

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

FWIW, Louis Riddick brags up Ed Ingram.

Who is Louis Riddick?

ESPN Analyst.

You inspired me to look up what he had to say. Booger liked Ingram also. Mel not so much.

LSU football guard Ed Ingram was selected by the Minnesota Vikings with the 59th overall selection in the second round of the 2022 NFL Draft on Friday night.

But after Ingram was selected, there was a disagreement on ESPN's broadcast as to his potential outlook as a player in the NFL.

Former LSU defensive tackle Booger McFarland and Louis Riddick sprung praise on the four-year starter, both believing that his athleticism and fundamentals could translate into a productive career in the NFL.

"You're talking about a guy who's over 300 pounds runs a five-flat (40-yard dash) and is an athlete. He shows it on tape. Just watch him move," McFarland said. "He is a people mover. The hardest thing to do is move a man against his will."

"The truth of the matter for me with Ed Ingram, I had a hard time finding bad plays from him," Riddick said. "We're going to look at Ed Ingram as one of the better offensive linemen to come out of this draft."

But Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN's top draft analyst, disagreed. He pointed toward his inconsistent mechanics and balance as a blocker as points of concern.

"I'm not as high or as sold on Ed Ingram as a future Pro Bowler," Kiper said. "I think he can be a solid starter. But he's got to be, I think, coached up from an offensive line standpoint by that coaching staff and get those fundamentals to stay consistent."

The debate then continued with Riddick directly disagreeing with Kiper's comments about Ingram's fundamentals.

"I thought fundamentals quite honestly was the strongest part of his game," Riddick said. "I thought his body posture, as far as not getting over his toes, punch timing, recovery quickness, ability to locate on the run, playing with physicality, finishing with nastiness. I was sitting there going plus, plus, plus."

So Kiper sees him as a solid starter, the other guys see him as a pro-bowler.

Pretty much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

FWIW, Louis Riddick brags up Ed Ingram.

Who is Louis Riddick?

ESPN Analyst.

You inspired me to look up what he had to say. Booger liked Ingram also. Mel not so much.

LSU football guard Ed Ingram was selected by the Minnesota Vikings with the 59th overall selection in the second round of the 2022 NFL Draft on Friday night.

But after Ingram was selected, there was a disagreement on ESPN's broadcast as to his potential outlook as a player in the NFL.

Former LSU defensive tackle Booger McFarland and Louis Riddick sprung praise on the four-year starter, both believing that his athleticism and fundamentals could translate into a productive career in the NFL.

"You're talking about a guy who's over 300 pounds runs a five-flat (40-yard dash) and is an athlete. He shows it on tape. Just watch him move," McFarland said. "He is a people mover. The hardest thing to do is move a man against his will."

"The truth of the matter for me with Ed Ingram, I had a hard time finding bad plays from him," Riddick said. "We're going to look at Ed Ingram as one of the better offensive linemen to come out of this draft."

But Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN's top draft analyst, disagreed. He pointed toward his inconsistent mechanics and balance as a blocker as points of concern.

"I'm not as high or as sold on Ed Ingram as a future Pro Bowler," Kiper said. "I think he can be a solid starter. But he's got to be, I think, coached up from an offensive line standpoint by that coaching staff and get those fundamentals to stay consistent."

The debate then continued with Riddick directly disagreeing with Kiper's comments about Ingram's fundamentals.

"I thought fundamentals quite honestly was the strongest part of his game," Riddick said. "I thought his body posture, as far as not getting over his toes, punch timing, recovery quickness, ability to locate on the run, playing with physicality, finishing with nastiness. I was sitting there going plus, plus, plus."

So Kiper sees him as a solid starter, the other guys see him as a pro-bowler.

Pretty much.

if he's an average starting guard, I'm happy....

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

FWIW, Louis Riddick brags up Ed Ingram.

Who is Louis Riddick?

ESPN Analyst.

You inspired me to look up what he had to say. Booger liked Ingram also. Mel not so much.

LSU football guard Ed Ingram was selected by the Minnesota Vikings with the 59th overall selection in the second round of the 2022 NFL Draft on Friday night.

But after Ingram was selected, there was a disagreement on ESPN's broadcast as to his potential outlook as a player in the NFL.

Former LSU defensive tackle Booger McFarland and Louis Riddick sprung praise on the four-year starter, both believing that his athleticism and fundamentals could translate into a productive career in the NFL.

"You're talking about a guy who's over 300 pounds runs a five-flat (40-yard dash) and is an athlete. He shows it on tape. Just watch him move," McFarland said. "He is a people mover. The hardest thing to do is move a man against his will."

"The truth of the matter for me with Ed Ingram, I had a hard time finding bad plays from him," Riddick said. "We're going to look at Ed Ingram as one of the better offensive linemen to come out of this draft."

But Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN's top draft analyst, disagreed. He pointed toward his inconsistent mechanics and balance as a blocker as points of concern.

"I'm not as high or as sold on Ed Ingram as a future Pro Bowler," Kiper said. "I think he can be a solid starter. But he's got to be, I think, coached up from an offensive line standpoint by that coaching staff and get those fundamentals to stay consistent."

The debate then continued with Riddick directly disagreeing with Kiper's comments about Ingram's fundamentals.

"I thought fundamentals quite honestly was the strongest part of his game," Riddick said. "I thought his body posture, as far as not getting over his toes, punch timing, recovery quickness, ability to locate on the run, playing with physicality, finishing with nastiness. I was sitting there going plus, plus, plus."

So Kiper sees him as a solid starter, the other guys see him as a pro-bowler.

Pretty much.

if he's an average starting guard, I'm happy....

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

FWIW, Louis Riddick brags up Ed Ingram.

Who is Louis Riddick?

ESPN Analyst.

You inspired me to look up what he had to say. Booger liked Ingram also. Mel not so much.

LSU football guard Ed Ingram was selected by the Minnesota Vikings with the 59th overall selection in the second round of the 2022 NFL Draft on Friday night.

But after Ingram was selected, there was a disagreement on ESPN's broadcast as to his potential outlook as a player in the NFL.

Former LSU defensive tackle Booger McFarland and Louis Riddick sprung praise on the four-year starter, both believing that his athleticism and fundamentals could translate into a productive career in the NFL.

"You're talking about a guy who's over 300 pounds runs a five-flat (40-yard dash) and is an athlete. He shows it on tape. Just watch him move," McFarland said. "He is a people mover. The hardest thing to do is move a man against his will."

"The truth of the matter for me with Ed Ingram, I had a hard time finding bad plays from him," Riddick said. "We're going to look at Ed Ingram as one of the better offensive linemen to come out of this draft."

But Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN's top draft analyst, disagreed. He pointed toward his inconsistent mechanics and balance as a blocker as points of concern.

"I'm not as high or as sold on Ed Ingram as a future Pro Bowler," Kiper said. "I think he can be a solid starter. But he's got to be, I think, coached up from an offensive line standpoint by that coaching staff and get those fundamentals to stay consistent."

The debate then continued with Riddick directly disagreeing with Kiper's comments about Ingram's fundamentals.

"I thought fundamentals quite honestly was the strongest part of his game," Riddick said. "I thought his body posture, as far as not getting over his toes, punch timing, recovery quickness, ability to locate on the run, playing with physicality, finishing with nastiness. I was sitting there going plus, plus, plus."

So Kiper sees him as a solid starter, the other guys see him as a pro-bowler.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson
FWIW, Louis Riddick brags up Ed Ingram.

Who is Louis Riddick?

ESPN Analyst.

You inspired me to look up what he had to say. Booger liked Ingram also. Mel not so much.

LSU football guard Ed Ingram was selected by the Minnesota Vikings with the 59th overall selection in the second round of the 2022 NFL Draft on Friday night.

But after Ingram was selected, there was a disagreement on ESPN's broadcast as to his potential outlook as a player in the NFL.

Former LSU defensive tackle Booger McFarland and Louis Riddick sprung praise on the four-year starter, both believing that his athleticism and fundamentals could translate into a productive career in the NFL.

"You're talking about a guy who's over 300 pounds runs a five-flat (40-yard dash) and is an athlete. He shows it on tape. Just watch him move," McFarland said. "He is a people mover. The hardest thing to do is move a man against his will."

"The truth of the matter for me with Ed Ingram, I had a hard time finding bad plays from him," Riddick said. "We're going to look at Ed Ingram as one of the better offensive linemen to come out of this draft."

But Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN's top draft analyst, disagreed. He pointed toward his inconsistent mechanics and balance as a blocker as points of concern.

"I'm not as high or as sold on Ed Ingram as a future Pro Bowler," Kiper said. "I think he can be a solid starter. But he's got to be, I think, coached up from an offensive line standpoint by that coaching staff and get those fundamentals to stay consistent."

The debate then continued with Riddick directly disagreeing with Kiper's comments about Ingram's fundamentals.

"I thought fundamentals quite honestly was the strongest part of his game," Riddick said. "I thought his body posture, as far as not getting over his toes, punch timing, recovery quickness, ability to locate on the run, playing with physicality, finishing with nastiness. I was sitting there going plus, plus, plus."

So Kiper sees him as a solid starter, the other guys see him as a pro-bowler.

Pretty much.

if he's an average starting guard, I'm happy....

After some of the crap we have put up with at guard, average would be an improvement, any thing better makes the draft team look better.
Not having swinging gates at guard and a guy with nastiness?

we haven’t seen that since Herrera and Hutchison.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

I found this somewhat useful:

Draft Grade Chart

It's useful in realizing what a complete waste draft day grades are. The Vikings received literally every letter grade A through F. The D and F were for no other reason than the graders couldn't get past the first round swap to even look at the players taken.

I'd give it a B-to-B+. I like the fellas addressing needs. That's a nice change from the pixie dust we have been served in the past decade.

Not a big fan of moving backwards or trading within the division, but those are my hang-ups. Anything after the fourth round doesn't matter to me.

We had a horrid defense last season. They addressed it. We needed depth up front on offense, they addressed it.

I liked the plan. Now we get two years to see if they know how to evaluate talent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

FWIW, Louis Riddick brags up Ed Ingram.

I saw video of the LSU Guard we drafted going thru some passing drills against DT from Georgia....he is very good at pass protection.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

With the talent we already have at the skill positions, I've been saying it for years....Get this Oline from suck to average and this offense will be rolling.

The only problem it should have now IMHO is the guy driving it is a stat building douchebag who doesn't have the killer instinct of a champion.

What we need driving this racecar is Dale Earnhart. Not Grandpa Joe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Last two times we traded with Detroit in the draft:

Dustin Baker
@DustBaker
·
1h
MIN traded with DET in 2015 and ended up with Danielle Hunter from the deal. DET used the trade to draft Alex Carter, who played one game for the franchise.

They also did business in 2010. DET got Jahvid Best and Jason Fox. The Vikings drafted Everson Griffen.

Encouraging.

He could be torching us for years to come (like what Moss did over his career to Dallas)

There is photos of how less than enthused Williams was of being drafted by Detroit.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I did some analysis of the complicated relationships of the trades that eventually landed us Cine and Booth.

Despite me not being a fan of the Detroit trade the draft capitol to get Cine and Booth was almost 100% from that trade with some bonus.
From Detroit. Pick 32 directly used to acquire Cine
From Detroit: Pick 34 used to acquire 53 and 59
Booth and pick 122 acquired using picks 53 and 77 and some very late pick not sure which number. 77 was our own entering the draft, but we got 66 in the Detroit trade more than compensating for that. We did have to give our #46 but we still had 59 and 122 left over when all the dust settled. So I think it's fair to say that pick 12 got us both Cine and Booth.
In the end IMO the compensation was worth the trade.

If we stand pat, we got pick 12 and 46, who's to say that Booth isn't still there at 46? Or we toss somebody a 5th or so to move up to 42.

You know it wasn’t just those two picks. He recouped the 4th, had four in the top 100 and ended up with 10 picks.

Also they moved up in the 2nd third and fourth round

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I did some analysis of the complicated relationships of the trades that eventually landed us Cine and Booth.

Despite me not being a fan of the Detroit trade the draft capitol to get Cine and Booth was almost 100% from that trade with some bonus.
From Detroit. Pick 32 directly used to acquire Cine
From Detroit: Pick 34 used to acquire 53 and 59
Booth and pick 122 acquired using picks 53 and 77 and some very late pick not sure which number. 77 was our own entering the draft, but we got 66 in the Detroit trade more than compensating for that. We did have to give our #46 but we still had 59 and 122 left over when all the dust settled. So I think it's fair to say that pick 12 got us both Cine and Booth.
In the end IMO the compensation was worth the trade.

If we stand pat, we got pick 12 and 46, who's to say that Booth isn't still there at 46? Or we toss somebody a 5th or so to move up to 42.

You know it wasn’t just those two picks. He recouped the 4th, had four in the top 100 and ended up with 10 picks.

Also they moved up in the 2nd third and fourth round

The point is, did we get fleeced in the initial Detroit trade? If we did then we gave up draft capital for later recouping/moving up. If you go by the Jimmy Johnson (historical standard) or the Rich Hill draft point charts, we got fleeced. And just eyeballing that trade vs what we've seen in the past, we got fleeced. If you go by the Fitzgerald-Spielberger or the Harvard draft points charts, both of which seem more analytics based and devalue lower picks less, then the Detroit trade seems good for us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm not worried about value now.

I did try and look at that 4th round action. Giving up next years 4th and going back and forth with the Raiders. I couldn't put together what the net cost if all that was...

I'm stoked about the players we landed though and that's all that matters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm not worried about value now.

I did try and look at that 4th round action. Giving up next years 4th and going back and forth with the Raiders. I couldn't put together what the net cost if all that was...

I'm stoked about the players we landed though and that's all that matters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm not worried about value now.

I did try and look at that 4th round action. Giving up next years 4th and going back and forth with the Raiders. I couldn't put together what the net cost if all that was...

I'm stoked about the players we landed though and that's all that matters.

by draft pick #66 only two teams had picked four players....

vikings...4 by #66
houston...4 by #44

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm not worried about value now.

I did try and look at that 4th round action. Giving up next years 4th and going back and forth with the Raiders. I couldn't put together what the net cost if all that was...

I'm stoked about the players we landed though and that's all that matters.

by draft pick #66 only two teams had picked four players....

vikings...4 by #66
houston...4 by #44

Kwesi for better or worse engineered it. First pick 32. We had 4 picks within 3 picks of all being 2nd round. I like Ingram and Asamoah, but both seem a bit early.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm not worried about value now.

I did try and look at that 4th round action. Giving up next years 4th and going back and forth with the Raiders. I couldn't put together what the net cost if all that was...

I'm stoked about the players we landed though and that's all that matters.

by draft pick #66 only two teams had picked four players....

vikings...4 by #66
houston...4 by #44

Kwesi for better or worse engineered it. First pick 32. We had 4 picks within 3 picks of all being 2nd round. I like Ingram and Asamoah, but both seem a bit early.

they are probably early by most experts' standards, but kwesi most likely targeted them, and others that he selected...he wasn't concerned with how they were valued by others....

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm not worried about value now.

I did try and look at that 4th round action. Giving up next years 4th and going back and forth with the Raiders. I couldn't put together what the net cost if all that was...

I'm stoked about the players we landed though and that's all that matters.

by draft pick #66 only two teams had picked four players....

vikings...4 by #66
houston...4 by #44

Kwesi for better or worse engineered it. First pick 32. We had 4 picks within 3 picks of all being 2nd round. I like Ingram and Asamoah, but both seem a bit early.

they are probably early by most experts' standards, but kwesi most likely targeted them, and others that he selected...he wasn't concerned with how they were valued by others....

"With the 59th pick in the NFL Draft, the Vikings selected Ed Ingram, guard, LSU. The Vikings acquired the 59th pick in a trade with the Packers, which included the 53rd pick, in exchange for the 34th pick.

Ingram was ranked the 101st on the consensus big board, and 8th ranked guard. He was selected two picks after G Luke Goedeke, 100th on the consensus big board, was selected by Tampa Bay. The 49ers, with needs at both guard positions, had a top 30 visit with Ingram, and picked two spots after the Vikings."...dailynorseman