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RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION-

 
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RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 9:13:05 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 4582
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think KAM is a GREAT hire based on merit, and I like what he says. His being Black is a great (intended or unintended) PR move in a town that has had some racial issues, an added bonus. Hiring a woman as an assistant (the one that was interviewed for the GM), is also good PR for getting women into important positions.

Or, perhaps they were just the best qualified person for the job.

This is an attitude that keeps hurting this country. There is the assumption by some that these people were hired for PR purposes. I'm pretty sure if you hired someone in a critical role in a $3-billion business, that they may meet qualifications.

I'm not saying Marty is guilty of it, just pointing out the obvious. Whenever I hear this kind of stuff come out of someone's mouth, I get right in their face. To me, for some, the only way to learn is to be put in your place.

Yeah ... don't hold back tiger.
Post #: 51
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 10:02:28 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 4582
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgdavis
...
Spielman did that often, either as a result of advertising his willingness to trade back or even initiating calls to do so, and the team may have not gotten fair value at times. However, if it's in the middle or later rounds, the team is about to pick and they have a few equally weighted candidates on their board, and then some team calls and offers an extra pick to move down a couple picks (e.g. drop from pick #101 to #103 in return for a 6th round pick), I don't see a problem with doing that, provided that the extra picks are evaluated as more than fair value for the move back.


Whether you liked Spielman's draft trades or not, based on trade value charts they were mostly neutral to very solidly positive.

What sunk Spielman was Teddy's freak knee accident. I didn't want them to trade the first round pick for a desperation QB Bradford, but they wanted to take a shot with a great defense. Teddy was good enough to win with that defense, and he'd have been cheap enough to keep the defense stocked. Instead they had to scramble from that point on, didn't get lucky enough in the draft, and too much cap got sucked into QB to keep everything else together.

Spielman, for the most part was a pretty good draft position swapper. The issue was leveraging down from the round third rd. on, to beef up his late picks and meet his 10+ pick quota. And the bad draft trades for players like Herndon and Ngakoue.

Teddy would have been devastating for any franchise. I do not fault Spielman for getting abused in the Bradford trade nor the Cousins signing ... every investment of time energy effort by everybody involved hinges on decent QB play. But IMO the OL was never going to be good enough in the Spielman years for Teddy to be better than barely adequate. A healthy Teddy is barely adequate now. I have my doubts that a non-injury Teddy would have been able to match Keenum's out-of-his-gourd play in 2017. Yes, extending a non-injury Teddy would have been cheaper in the long run than the contractual fiasco of Cousins but Cousins is a much better QB and what would Spielman have done with the extra cap space ... more extensions for over the hill favorites? Kalil Robison Greenway Rudolph might still be on the roster.

Wild conjecture yes, but I don't think Teddy was the beginning of the end for Spielman Zimmer era. Only their Phase I Team Building Plan 2014-2017.

2018-2021 was all on them and was simply one GM-HC shot to the foot after another.

Go Kwesi Adofo-Mensah!
Post #: 52
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 10:10:35 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 16743
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think KAM is a GREAT hire based on merit, and I like what he says. His being Black is a great (intended or unintended) PR move in a town that has had some racial issues, an added bonus. Hiring a woman as an assistant (the one that was interviewed for the GM), is also good PR for getting women into important positions.

Or, perhaps they were just the best qualified person for the job.

This is an attitude that keeps hurting this country. There is the assumption by some that these people were hired for PR purposes. I'm pretty sure if you hired someone in a critical role in a $3-billion business, that they may meet qualifications.

I'm not saying Marty is guilty of it, just pointing out the obvious. Whenever I hear this kind of stuff come out of someone's mouth, I get right in their face. To me, for some, the only way to learn is to be put in your place.

Yeah ... don't hold back tiger.

That might be my favorite post ever from you, Brad.

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 1/30/2022 10:12:52 AM >
Post #: 53
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 10:12:44 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 38010
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
Brad, I commend you for so often standing on the side of humanity, of equality, fairness.

---

You know how no one ever believes it when someone's vocal about not being racist? On that vein I wonder how believable it is to hear me proclaim that I don't care at all that we hired a GM that's a minority. I was never worried we might and it's not a consideration for me what the hire does to battle systemic racism. Not my zoo, not my lion. I listened to the man talk and it checked off enough boxes.

In no way do I imagine the Wilfs giving any weight to a lesser candidate bc it would look good to do so. They might have made a bold move but that only has to do with the youth, vision, and substance of their hire.

I don't think I'd feel exactly the same if Catherine Raiche found herself assistant GM though. Now I could be missing how dynamic she really is, but that kind of diversity would start to seem a little forced. I know people probably don't watch commercials like they used to, and perhaps it's more prominent here in Canada but near every commercial features judt minorities, interracial couples and/or someone from the LGBT community. And that's forced. Therefor not real and it makes me SMH a little.

I'm not going to stomp my feet if they do. I'd probably dislike our GM being saddled with an assistant more than anything. I'd rather have one strong voice at the top. I want our guy to own it.

< Message edited by Todd M -- 1/30/2022 10:14:20 AM >
Post #: 54
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 10:16:50 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 16743
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
The Minnesota Twins appear to have some things in common with Canada
Post #: 55
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 10:46:25 AM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1188
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgdavis
...
Spielman did that often, either as a result of advertising his willingness to trade back or even initiating calls to do so, and the team may have not gotten fair value at times. However, if it's in the middle or later rounds, the team is about to pick and they have a few equally weighted candidates on their board, and then some team calls and offers an extra pick to move down a couple picks (e.g. drop from pick #101 to #103 in return for a 6th round pick), I don't see a problem with doing that, provided that the extra picks are evaluated as more than fair value for the move back.


Whether you liked Spielman's draft trades or not, based on trade value charts they were mostly neutral to very solidly positive.

What sunk Spielman was Teddy's freak knee accident. I didn't want them to trade the first round pick for a desperation QB Bradford, but they wanted to take a shot with a great defense. Teddy was good enough to win with that defense, and he'd have been cheap enough to keep the defense stocked. Instead they had to scramble from that point on, didn't get lucky enough in the draft, and too much cap got sucked into QB to keep everything else together.

Spielman, for the most part was a pretty good draft position swapper. The issue was leveraging down from the round third rd. on, to beef up his late picks and meet his 10+ pick quota. And the bad draft trades for players like Herndon and Ngakoue.

Teddy would have been devastating for any franchise. I do not fault Spielman for getting abused in the Bradford trade nor the Cousins signing ... every investment of time energy effort by everybody involved hinges on decent QB play. But IMO the OL was never going to be good enough in the Spielman years for Teddy to be better than barely adequate. A healthy Teddy is barely adequate now. I have my doubts that a non-injury Teddy would have been able to match Keenum's out-of-his-gourd play in 2017. Yes, extending a non-injury Teddy would have been cheaper in the long run than the contractual fiasco of Cousins but Cousins is a much better QB and what would Spielman have done with the extra cap space ... more extensions for over the hill favorites? Kalil Robison Greenway Rudolph might still be on the roster.

Wild conjecture yes, but I don't think Teddy was the beginning of the end for Spielman Zimmer era. Only their Phase I Team Building Plan 2014-2017.

2018-2021 was all on them and was simply one GM-HC shot to the foot after another.

Go Kwesi Adofo-Mensah!

Nice summary. I agree. No legitimate argument to keep Zimmer/Spielman after the myriad of mistakes since 2017.
Post #: 56
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 11:06:11 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 4582
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Brad, I commend you for so often standing on the side of humanity, of equality, fairness.

---

You know how no one ever believes it when someone's vocal about not being racist? On that vein I wonder how believable it is to hear me proclaim that I don't care at all that we hired a GM that's a minority. I was never worried we might and it's not a consideration for me what the hire does to battle systemic racism. Not my zoo, not my lion. I listened to the man talk and it checked off enough boxes.

In no way do I imagine the Wilfs giving any weight to a lesser candidate bc it would look good to do so. They might have made a bold move but that only has to do with the youth, vision, and substance of their hire.

I don't think I'd feel exactly the same if Catherine Raiche found herself assistant GM though. Now I could be missing how dynamic she really is, but that kind of diversity would start to seem a little forced. I know people probably don't watch commercials like they used to, and perhaps it's more prominent here in Canada but near every commercial features judt minorities, interracial couples and/or someone from the LGBT community. And that's forced. Therefor not real and it makes me SMH a little.

I'm not going to stomp my feet if they do. I'd probably dislike our GM being saddled with an assistant more than anything. I'd rather have one strong voice at the top. I want our guy to own it.

Yes I agree.

I'm cynical enough to believe that what the Wilfs say and do can be two completely different things.

However, they are canny enough to understand that the hiring process needed to be as open and fair-minded as possible ...

and regardless of that, now matter how much of that was high-mindedness or public relations ...

they have to believe that KAM is simply the right man for this job. There is just too much at stake.
Post #: 57
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 1:38:40 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 11257
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Brad, I commend you for so often standing on the side of humanity, of equality, fairness.

---

You know how no one ever believes it when someone's vocal about not being racist? On that vein I wonder how believable it is to hear me proclaim that I don't care at all that we hired a GM that's a minority. I was never worried we might and it's not a consideration for me what the hire does to battle systemic racism. Not my zoo, not my lion. I listened to the man talk and it checked off enough boxes.

In no way do I imagine the Wilfs giving any weight to a lesser candidate bc it would look good to do so. They might have made a bold move but that only has to do with the youth, vision, and substance of their hire.

I don't think I'd feel exactly the same if Catherine Raiche found herself assistant GM though. Now I could be missing how dynamic she really is, but that kind of diversity would start to seem a little forced. I know people probably don't watch commercials like they used to, and perhaps it's more prominent here in Canada but near every commercial features judt minorities, interracial couples and/or someone from the LGBT community. And that's forced. Therefor not real and it makes me SMH a little.

I'm not going to stomp my feet if they do. I'd probably dislike our GM being saddled with an assistant more than anything. I'd rather have one strong voice at the top. I want our guy to own it.

Yes I agree.

I'm cynical enough to believe that what the Wilfs say and do can be two completely different things.

However, they are canny enough to understand that the hiring process needed to be as open and fair-minded as possible ...

and regardless of that, now matter how much of that was high-mindedness or public relations ...

they have to believe that KAM is simply the right man for this job. There is just too much at stake.

I think the Wilfs hired the man they felt was most qualified. Announcing that you need to hire A,B,C for diversity sake seems like a self motivated political move, not the right move. The Wilfs made no announcement.

Go KAM!!!
Post #: 58
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 5:47:33 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 4582
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Brad, I commend you for so often standing on the side of humanity, of equality, fairness.

---

You know how no one ever believes it when someone's vocal about not being racist? On that vein I wonder how believable it is to hear me proclaim that I don't care at all that we hired a GM that's a minority. I was never worried we might and it's not a consideration for me what the hire does to battle systemic racism. Not my zoo, not my lion. I listened to the man talk and it checked off enough boxes.

In no way do I imagine the Wilfs giving any weight to a lesser candidate bc it would look good to do so. They might have made a bold move but that only has to do with the youth, vision, and substance of their hire.

I don't think I'd feel exactly the same if Catherine Raiche found herself assistant GM though. Now I could be missing how dynamic she really is, but that kind of diversity would start to seem a little forced. I know people probably don't watch commercials like they used to, and perhaps it's more prominent here in Canada but near every commercial features judt minorities, interracial couples and/or someone from the LGBT community. And that's forced. Therefor not real and it makes me SMH a little.

I'm not going to stomp my feet if they do. I'd probably dislike our GM being saddled with an assistant more than anything. I'd rather have one strong voice at the top. I want our guy to own it.

Yes I agree.

I'm cynical enough to believe that what the Wilfs say and do can be two completely different things.

However, they are canny enough to understand that the hiring process needed to be as open and fair-minded as possible ...

and regardless of that, now matter how much of that was high-mindedness or public relations ...

they have to believe that KAM is simply the right man for this job. There is just too much at stake.

I think the Wilfs hired the man they felt was most qualified. Announcing that you need to hire A,B,C for diversity sake seems like a self motivated political move, not the right move. The Wilfs made no announcement.

Go KAM!!!

So we agree.
Post #: 59
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 1/30/2022 9:29:31 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 11257
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Brad, I commend you for so often standing on the side of humanity, of equality, fairness.

---

You know how no one ever believes it when someone's vocal about not being racist? On that vein I wonder how believable it is to hear me proclaim that I don't care at all that we hired a GM that's a minority. I was never worried we might and it's not a consideration for me what the hire does to battle systemic racism. Not my zoo, not my lion. I listened to the man talk and it checked off enough boxes.

In no way do I imagine the Wilfs giving any weight to a lesser candidate bc it would look good to do so. They might have made a bold move but that only has to do with the youth, vision, and substance of their hire.

I don't think I'd feel exactly the same if Catherine Raiche found herself assistant GM though. Now I could be missing how dynamic she really is, but that kind of diversity would start to seem a little forced. I know people probably don't watch commercials like they used to, and perhaps it's more prominent here in Canada but near every commercial features judt minorities, interracial couples and/or someone from the LGBT community. And that's forced. Therefor not real and it makes me SMH a little.

I'm not going to stomp my feet if they do. I'd probably dislike our GM being saddled with an assistant more than anything. I'd rather have one strong voice at the top. I want our guy to own it.

Yes I agree.

I'm cynical enough to believe that what the Wilfs say and do can be two completely different things.

However, they are canny enough to understand that the hiring process needed to be as open and fair-minded as possible ...

and regardless of that, now matter how much of that was high-mindedness or public relations ...

they have to believe that KAM is simply the right man for this job. There is just too much at stake.

I think the Wilfs hired the man they felt was most qualified. Announcing that you need to hire A,B,C for diversity sake seems like a self motivated political move, not the right move. The Wilfs made no announcement.

Go KAM!!!

So we agree.

yep
Post #: 60
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 2/9/2022 2:48:28 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 11257
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
Kyler Murray and Cardinals feuding a little bit.

Make a huge offer and see what happens?
Post #: 61
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 2/9/2022 3:41:25 PM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 35881
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Brad, I commend you for so often standing on the side of humanity, of equality, fairness.

---

You know how no one ever believes it when someone's vocal about not being racist? On that vein I wonder how believable it is to hear me proclaim that I don't care at all that we hired a GM that's a minority. I was never worried we might and it's not a consideration for me what the hire does to battle systemic racism. Not my zoo, not my lion. I listened to the man talk and it checked off enough boxes.

In no way do I imagine the Wilfs giving any weight to a lesser candidate bc it would look good to do so. They might have made a bold move but that only has to do with the youth, vision, and substance of their hire.

I don't think I'd feel exactly the same if Catherine Raiche found herself assistant GM though. Now I could be missing how dynamic she really is, but that kind of diversity would start to seem a little forced. I know people probably don't watch commercials like they used to, and perhaps it's more prominent here in Canada but near every commercial features judt minorities, interracial couples and/or someone from the LGBT community. And that's forced. Therefor not real and it makes me SMH a little.

I'm not going to stomp my feet if they do. I'd probably dislike our GM being saddled with an assistant more than anything. I'd rather have one strong voice at the top. I want our guy to own it.

Yes I agree.

I'm cynical enough to believe that what the Wilfs say and do can be two completely different things.

However, they are canny enough to understand that the hiring process needed to be as open and fair-minded as possible ...

and regardless of that, now matter how much of that was high-mindedness or public relations ...

they have to believe that KAM is simply the right man for this job. There is just too much at stake.

I think the Wilfs hired the man they felt was most qualified. Announcing that you need to hire A,B,C for diversity sake seems like a self motivated political move, not the right move. The Wilfs made no announcement.

Go KAM!!!

Yes!

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 62
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 2/9/2022 4:09:22 PM   
ronhextall


Posts: 5869
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Kyler Murray and Cardinals feuding a little bit.

Make a huge offer and see what happens?


I wouldn’t. He hasn’t proven much yet IMO.

Guy is shorter than short and seems to be injured often.

If he is bitching about money three years in and hasn’t done anything in post season I am not sure he is the right guy.
Post #: 63
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 2/9/2022 5:53:40 PM   
marty


Posts: 11285
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online
Brad

People that know me, know I don't have that attitude, nor do I think KAM was hired for good PR, or to improve race relations. I was sorta putting it out there, I am sometimes the person that likes to go where others don't dare, and I was just hoping for some discussion on it, and to hear some different views on it. What usually happens when I pose these sorta questions, are some things I hadn't considered, even if it involves someone showing anger.

The feeling that you feel that I need to be put in my place, might say more about you, than it does about me.

I don't think it can be ignored that besides the fact that KAM is a REALLY great hire, it's a bonus that he is black. I was in a discussion elsewhere about Flores, and someone (before KOC he was hired) commented that at least Minnesota was seriously considering a black HC, and has hired them in the past. I hadn't given that any thought until then, Denny Green and Leslie Frazier.

< Message edited by marty -- 2/9/2022 5:56:26 PM >


_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 64
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 2/12/2022 11:58:04 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 23901
Status: offline
I hope that people got their thought about KAM's ethnicity, background, etc off their chests and heretofore all will offer opinions on his GM style, decisions, and (later) results.
Post #: 65
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 2/12/2022 6:52:05 PM  1 votes
marty


Posts: 11285
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online
I think it's a non-issue Bill, but about 5 or 6 years ago I thought racism was coming to almost a complete end in the U.S., and then some things happened ....

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 66
RE: Kwesi Adofo-Mensah -GM DISCUSSION- - 2/12/2022 7:22:02 PM   
Zoilo

 

Posts: 8031
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
Once you get past the third round of the draft, there are not a lot of sure things. So, I think Spielman was wise to move down in rounds 4-7 in order to have more chances to find that surprise player. I liked it when he traded picks to turn 7 picks in to 10 picks. That way they could get more players that would be required to negotiate with the Vikings and they would not have to overpay like they sometimes do in order to sign a free agent.

_____________________________

Z
Post #: 67
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