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RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 1:34:20 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33235
Status: offline

If he had an agent...

He would have signed an extension a couple years ago like Josh Allen got in Buffalo and banked millions and millions...

If he wants to sit out next season and be a martyr...

He is insane if he turned down those deals...

Some media like to ... claim 'racism'...

Gauranteed is all Lamar wants...

If Lamar sits...

Lamar evidently was offered...

Post #: 7501

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 3:14:36 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

One talking head speculated could match any offer and then ask for even more in a following trade.

Lamar is swimming in deep water with some serious sharks, he is in way over his head.

If he had an agent he would have signed an extension a couple years ago like Josh Allen got in Buffalo and banked millions and millions.

If he wants to sit out next season and be a martyr that's his choice but "martyr" don't spend too well for the 70+ years he has to live going forward.

Lamar is the wrong guy. Mahomes gets a fully guaranteed deal IMO. Lamar isn't in my top 5 QBs that I would want. Frankly after Mahomes I don't get a boner for anybody else.

If Lamar sits, he isn't doing himself anything good towards being a true Free Agent correct? Basically everything is put on Pause and the only think going on is Lamar getting older.

He would have signed a Josh Allen type extension? HOW? I think a/the fundamental problem is Jackson had a better year or years than Allen "a couple of years ago" but Baltimore was not willing to offer what Allen signed for.

And you're saying if he had an agent, the agent could have done all that?

Reel it in cowboy.

What I wrote was based on podcasts and articles I read from current and former agents.

If he had an agent he would have gotten paid already. What other MVP QB was hung out to dry that had an agent?

Lamar is a running QB than can throw some, not a passing QB that can run. That puts him in RGIII and Vick company. Their shelf life isn't great.

Guy is damn near ancient already, his best season was 4 YEARS AGO. He wasn't even able to finish the past two seasons. Somebody said he has finished 1 game in December and January in the past 3 seasons (no idea what the context of that is but if that's true that is horrible).

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 4/6/2023 3:15:51 PM >

Post #: 7502

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 3:22:40 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12705
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

One talking head speculated could match any offer and then ask for even more in a following trade.

Lamar is swimming in deep water with some serious sharks, he is in way over his head.

If he had an agent he would have signed an extension a couple years ago like Josh Allen got in Buffalo and banked millions and millions.

If he wants to sit out next season and be a martyr that's his choice but "martyr" don't spend too well for the 70+ years he has to live going forward.

Lamar is the wrong guy. Mahomes gets a fully guaranteed deal IMO. Lamar isn't in my top 5 QBs that I would want. Frankly after Mahomes I don't get a boner for anybody else.

If Lamar sits, he isn't doing himself anything good towards being a true Free Agent correct? Basically everything is put on Pause and the only think going on is Lamar getting older.

I think he wanted to be a Curt Flood type person(a pioneer). Leading the way to everyone not hiring agents.

I think he will eventually find out that the Agents earn their 3-5%.

Culpepper did it here.

You're right.

10 yrs. 102M 16M guaranteed

Was this a good deal back then? Not sure.

Post #: 7503

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 4:31:43 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33235
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

One talking head speculated could match any offer and then ask for even more in a following trade.

Lamar is swimming in deep water with some serious sharks, he is in way over his head.

If he had an agent he would have signed an extension a couple years ago like Josh Allen got in Buffalo and banked millions and millions.

If he wants to sit out next season and be a martyr that's his choice but "martyr" don't spend too well for the 70+ years he has to live going forward.

Lamar is the wrong guy. Mahomes gets a fully guaranteed deal IMO. Lamar isn't in my top 5 QBs that I would want. Frankly after Mahomes I don't get a boner for anybody else.

If Lamar sits, he isn't doing himself anything good towards being a true Free Agent correct? Basically everything is put on Pause and the only think going on is Lamar getting older.

He would have signed a Josh Allen type extension? HOW? I think a/the fundamental problem is Jackson had a better year or years than Allen "a couple of years ago" but Baltimore was not willing to offer what Allen signed for.

And you're saying if he had an agent, the agent could have done all that?

Reel it in cowboy.

What I wrote was based on podcasts and articles I read from current and former agents.

If he had an agent he would have gotten paid already. What other MVP QB was hung out to dry that had an agent?

Lamar is a running QB than can throw some, not a passing QB that can run. That puts him in RGIII and Vick company. Their shelf life isn't great.

Guy is damn near ancient already, his best season was 4 YEARS AGO. He wasn't even able to finish the past two seasons. Somebody said he has finished 1 game in December and January in the past 3 seasons (no idea what the context of that is but if that's true that is horrible).

IOW, speculation.

Sounds like a lot of reasons for teams NOT to pay him, agent or no agent, what he wants. At the end of the day the player decides on the terms, not the agent.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 4/6/2023 4:35:31 PM >

Post #: 7504

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 4:33:53 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33235
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

One talking head speculated could match any offer and then ask for even more in a following trade.

Lamar is swimming in deep water with some serious sharks, he is in way over his head.

If he had an agent he would have signed an extension a couple years ago like Josh Allen got in Buffalo and banked millions and millions.

If he wants to sit out next season and be a martyr that's his choice but "martyr" don't spend too well for the 70+ years he has to live going forward.

Lamar is the wrong guy. Mahomes gets a fully guaranteed deal IMO. Lamar isn't in my top 5 QBs that I would want. Frankly after Mahomes I don't get a boner for anybody else.

If Lamar sits, he isn't doing himself anything good towards being a true Free Agent correct? Basically everything is put on Pause and the only think going on is Lamar getting older.

I think he wanted to be a Curt Flood type person(a pioneer). Leading the way to everyone not hiring agents.

I think he will eventually find out that the Agents earn their 3-5%.

Culpepper did it here.

You're right.

10 yrs. 102M 16M guaranteed

Was this a good deal back then? Not sure.

Don't know the real $, but it had BS in it. One example was some chunk of $ if he led the special teams in tackles.

Post #: 7505

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 4:46:27 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33235
Status: offline

Somebody said he has finished 1 game in December and January in the past 3 seasons (no idea what the context of that is but if that's true that is horrible).

"Somebody" should have checked their facts before spouting off. It 47 seconds to determine that is incorrect.

But that's the great thing about speculation about, say, contract offers. Throw pretty much anything out there with an "If" in front of it and one can convince oneself it is true... if one chooses to go that route.

Post #: 7506

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 5:11:36 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18183
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

How do you know Lamar only wants a fully-guaranteed contract?

Judging by what he turned down (from Balt) it seems pretty clear he wants north of the Watson contract.

He may die on that hill.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 7507

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 5:37:45 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Somebody said he has finished 1 game in December and January in the past 3 seasons (no idea what the context of that is but if that's true that is horrible).

"Somebody" should have checked their facts before spouting off. It 47 seconds to determine that is incorrect.

But that's the great thing about speculation about, say, contract offers. Throw pretty much anything out there with an "If" in front of it and one can convince oneself it is true... if one chooses to go that route.

How many December January games has Baltimore played in past two seasons?

How many has Lamar finished ?

I am not far off and it isn’t good no matter what you find in game logs. You have 47 seconds

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 4/6/2023 5:45:14 PM >

Post #: 7508

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 5:50:36 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33235
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Somebody said he has finished 1 game in December and January in the past 3 seasons (no idea what the context of that is but if that's true that is horrible).

"Somebody" should have checked their facts before spouting off. It 47 seconds to determine that is incorrect.

But that's the great thing about speculation about, say, contract offers. Throw pretty much anything out there with an "If" in front of it and one can convince oneself it is true... if one chooses to go that route.

How many December January games has Baltimore played in past two seasons?

How many has Lamar finished ?

I am not far off and it isn’t good no matter what you find in game logs. You have 47 seconds

Good job of moving the goalposts off the speculative contract innuendo.

Post #: 7509

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 5:51:57 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33235
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

How do you know Lamar only wants a fully-guaranteed contract?

Judging by what he turned down (from Balt) it seems pretty clear he wants north of the Watson contract.

He may die on that hill.

Oh, so now that IS fact!

LMAO!

Post #: 7510

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/6/2023 7:07:53 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28305
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

One talking head speculated could match any offer and then ask for even more in a following trade.

Lamar is swimming in deep water with some serious sharks, he is in way over his head.

If he had an agent he would have signed an extension a couple years ago like Josh Allen got in Buffalo and banked millions and millions.

If he wants to sit out next season and be a martyr that's his choice but "martyr" don't spend too well for the 70+ years he has to live going forward.

Lamar is the wrong guy. Mahomes gets a fully guaranteed deal IMO. Lamar isn't in my top 5 QBs that I would want. Frankly after Mahomes I don't get a boner for anybody else.

If Lamar sits, he isn't doing himself anything good towards being a true Free Agent correct? Basically everything is put on Pause and the only think going on is Lamar getting older.

I think he wanted to be a Curt Flood type person(a pioneer). Leading the way to everyone not hiring agents.

I think he will eventually find out that the Agents earn their 3-5%.

On NFL radio they mentioned two deals that Lamar has already turned down from Baltimore. 3 years 133 million fully guaranteed and 6 years 250 million with (I think?) 150 million guaranteed. They said he's in position now to lose out on more money than Leveon Bell ever missed out on. Also, sidenote - 3% is the most an agent can charge so he really isn't "saving" much at all even if he negotiated a great deal for himself.

It isn't a Latrell Sprewell situation because he(LJ) will eventually get multi generational wealth.

But, he is going to have lost a good chunk of money when it is all said and done.

So you're saying will have enough to feed his family?

Post #: 7511

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 7:42:18 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 16489
Status: offline

So your saying you are deliberately ignoring the Word “generational”…

_____________________________

Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who

Post #: 7512

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 7:56:45 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 32225
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

The Vikings and TJ Hockenson have begun contract negotiations, per @DWolfsonKSTP

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 7513

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 8:17:50 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 32225
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Kevin Seifert
@SeifertESPN
·
4m
Replying to
@SeifertESPN
Hendon Hooker's age (25) is unusual, but consider Vikings history: Fran Tarkenton and Tommy Kramer are the only QBs to last more than 5 years as their primary starter. (Cousins will be 3rd.) Hooker could start between ages 26-33 and still be one of their longest-tenured QBs!

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 7514

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 10:04:27 AM

beo

Posts: 2573
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

One talking head speculated could match any offer and then ask for even more in a following trade.

Lamar is swimming in deep water with some serious sharks, he is in way over his head.

If he had an agent he would have signed an extension a couple years ago like Josh Allen got in Buffalo and banked millions and millions.

If he wants to sit out next season and be a martyr that's his choice but "martyr" don't spend too well for the 70+ years he has to live going forward.

Lamar is the wrong guy. Mahomes gets a fully guaranteed deal IMO. Lamar isn't in my top 5 QBs that I would want. Frankly after Mahomes I don't get a boner for anybody else.

If Lamar sits, he isn't doing himself anything good towards being a true Free Agent correct? Basically everything is put on Pause and the only think going on is Lamar getting older.

I think he wanted to be a Curt Flood type person(a pioneer). Leading the way to everyone not hiring agents.

I think he will eventually find out that the Agents earn their 3-5%.

Culpepper did it here.

You're right.

10 yrs. 102M 16M guaranteed

Was this a good deal back then? Not sure.

My vague memory was that it was considered not a great deal due to his inexperience.

Big numbers, but I think it was easy out for the Vikings if they wanted and not a lot guaranteed.

Post #: 7515

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 10:40:56 AM

David Levine

Posts: 81059
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Kevin Seifert
@SeifertESPN
·
4m
Replying to
@SeifertESPN
Hendon Hooker's age (25) is unusual, but consider Vikings history: Fran Tarkenton and Tommy Kramer are the only QBs to last more than 5 years as their primary starter. (Cousins will be 3rd.) Hooker could start between ages 26-33 and still be one of their longest-tenured QBs!

Agreed.

So his 2nd contract would basically be for the prime years of his career?

What's the downside to that?

Is the worry that he only gives you 8-10 productive years instead of 10-12?

Post #: 7516

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 11:55:04 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12705
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

One talking head speculated could match any offer and then ask for even more in a following trade.

Lamar is swimming in deep water with some serious sharks, he is in way over his head.

If he had an agent he would have signed an extension a couple years ago like Josh Allen got in Buffalo and banked millions and millions.

If he wants to sit out next season and be a martyr that's his choice but "martyr" don't spend too well for the 70+ years he has to live going forward.

Lamar is the wrong guy. Mahomes gets a fully guaranteed deal IMO. Lamar isn't in my top 5 QBs that I would want. Frankly after Mahomes I don't get a boner for anybody else.

If Lamar sits, he isn't doing himself anything good towards being a true Free Agent correct? Basically everything is put on Pause and the only think going on is Lamar getting older.

I think he wanted to be a Curt Flood type person(a pioneer). Leading the way to everyone not hiring agents.

I think he will eventually find out that the Agents earn their 3-5%.

Culpepper did it here.

You're right.

10 yrs. 102M 16M guaranteed

Was this a good deal back then? Not sure.

My vague memory was that it was considered not a great deal due to his inexperience.

Big numbers, but I think it was easy out for the Vikings if they wanted and not a lot guaranteed.

McCombs was the Owner. I'm sure we low balled him.

Post #: 7517

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 1:16:14 PM

beo

Posts: 2573
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Kevin Seifert
@SeifertESPN
·
4m
Replying to
@SeifertESPN
Hendon Hooker's age (25) is unusual, but consider Vikings history: Fran Tarkenton and Tommy Kramer are the only QBs to last more than 5 years as their primary starter. (Cousins will be 3rd.) Hooker could start between ages 26-33 and still be one of their longest-tenured QBs!

Agreed.

So his 2nd contract would basically be for the prime years of his career?

What's the downside to that?

Is the worry that he only gives you 8-10 productive years instead of 10-12?

I think the "downside" by evaluators is that at 25 you have likely reached close to your peak.
I.e. not much upside.

I can't remember any successful QBs being drafted at age 25... but who knows.

The big knock on Hooker from my perspective is the offense he ran in college.
All his throws were predetermined at the snap.
There is no going through progressions.
That's just the type of offense that was run.

So you don't really know if he can translate to the NFL.

Post #: 7518

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 2:09:48 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 16489
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Kevin Seifert
@SeifertESPN
·
4m
Replying to
@SeifertESPN
Hendon Hooker's age (25) is unusual, but consider Vikings history: Fran Tarkenton and Tommy Kramer are the only QBs to last more than 5 years as their primary starter. (Cousins will be 3rd.) Hooker could start between ages 26-33 and still be one of their longest-tenured QBs!

Agreed.

So his 2nd contract would basically be for the prime years of his career?

What's the downside to that?

Is the worry that he only gives you 8-10 productive years instead of 10-12?

I think the "downside" by evaluators is that at 25 you have likely reached close to your peak.
I.e. not much upside.

I can't remember any successful QBs being drafted at age 25... but who knows.

The big knock on Hooker from my perspective is the offense he ran in college.
All his throws were predetermined at the snap.
There is no going through progressions.
That's just the type of offense that was run.

So you don't really know if he can translate to the NFL.

You do know that at the combine they whiteboard scenarios for Qb to analyze defensive sets against offensive formations and have them walk thru orally, the reads and progressions..

I heard that Hooker did very well.

Implying he is unable to translate to NFL play is about as big a false flag, as Mr Irrelevant leading a team into the playoffs due to injury…

I think we should take him with a trade up into the second round if he is there..

KFC is gone, soon..

We need to draft a QB every fn year till we get one that works in KOC offense.

_____________________________

Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who

Post #: 7519

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 2:34:34 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 16489
Status: offline

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikings/comments/12en8h7/hendon_hooker_vs_alabama_all_snaps/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=3&utm_term=1

_____________________________

Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who

Post #: 7520

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 3:19:57 PM

marty

Posts: 14158
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Hooker should only be taken in the 3rd round, or later.

I can't get past the name. Hendon Hooker is a name like Christian Ponder, it sounds like a name I can't imagine winning a Super Bowl.

I have cancelled many names off the list for just how they sounded, and it's been pretty close to 100%.

Say no to Hooker, say no to fantasy, get a real life franchise QB.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 7521

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 3:22:46 PM

marty

Posts: 14158
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I am against drafting a Hooker, but will be fully supportive for a few years if the Vikings decide to draft him.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 7522

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 3:37:59 PM

marty

Posts: 14158
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Looking at Dan's link, I am not overly impressed with this Hooker.

I value quickness, accuracy, and ability to adjust to bad circumstances. He seemed not the best at any of them.

He seemed to have good decision making, a strong arm, and he has good size. They were lucky they got the PI call in this game, or it's a loss.

Caleb Williams looks 10x better. Find a way to get him in 2024. Take a flyer on a 3rd round or later QB this draft.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 7523

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 3:50:50 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6275
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Hooker should only be taken in the 3rd round, or later.

I can't get past the name. Hendon Hooker is a name like Christian Ponder, it sounds like a name I can't imagine winning a Super Bowl.

I have cancelled many names off the list for just how they sounded, and it's been pretty close to 100%.

Say no to Hooker, say no to fantasy, get a real life franchise QB.

That's right and say no to prescriptive analytics ... descriptive, diagnostic and predictive analytics ...

but say hello to hootin' and tootin' analytics.

Post #: 7524

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 4:22:10 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33235
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Hooker should only be taken in the 3rd round, or later.

I can't get past the name. Hendon Hooker is a name like Christian Ponder, it sounds like a name I can't imagine winning a Super Bowl.

I have cancelled many names off the list for just how they sounded, and it's been pretty close to 100%.

Say no to Hooker, say no to fantasy, get a real life franchise QB.

That's right and say no to prescriptive analytics ... descriptive, diagnostic and predictive analytics ...

but say hello to hootin' and tootin' analytics.