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RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 3:57:30 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

If there was an Elway or Manning in the draft, consider trading 3+ first rounders. This draft? Nope. Besides, Chi, Wash, and NE are going QB. Chi certainly isn't trading with us.

We're in the running for McCarthy, Penix, or Nix.

If we stay at 11, there is a solid chance that Penix and Nix are our only options.

If we want a QB, we should trade up and get a guy. Settling for whoever falls to us is proven loser strategy for this team.

Presuming the big 3 go 1-2-3 because those teams are not trading out of their positions, how high does one go for the second tier? Granted, a team could have their sights set on what they think is a sure-fire option but in general at what point is trading up a panic move?

I don't see a panic move. Williams is his own tier. McCarthy appears to be moving to the same tier as Daniels and Maye. One of those three should be available after the top 5 picks.

Even if you dispute McCarthy at Maye and Daniels level, he is a hell of a lot closer to them than he is to Pennix and Nix.

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Post #: 8351

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 4:00:43 PM

Mark C. Johnson

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Good post. I agree. Sign a bridge QB...I'd roll the dice with Russell Wilson and draft a rookie with the first pick. It's a logical possible solution to the QB problem. Plus, I think we'd only have to pay Wilson minimum money leaving cash to sign free agents.

Post #: 8352

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 4:01:25 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

If there was an Elway or Manning in the draft, consider trading 3+ first rounders. This draft? Nope. Besides, Chi, Wash, and NE are going QB. Chi certainly isn't trading with us.

We're in the running for McCarthy, Penix, or Nix.

If we stay at 11, there is a solid chance that Penix and Nix are our only options.

If we want a QB, we should trade up and get a guy. Settling for whoever falls to us is proven loser strategy for this team.

Presuming the big 3 go 1-2-3 because those teams are not trading out of their positions, how high does one go for the second tier? Granted, a team could have their sights set on what they think is a sure-fire option but in general at what point is trading up a panic move?

I don't see a panic move. Williams is his own tier. McCarthy appears to be moving to the same tier as Daniels and Maye. One of those three should be available after the top 5 picks.

Even if you dispute McCarthy at Maye and Daniels level, he is a hell of a lot closer to them than he is to Pennix and Nix.

Are the McCarthy reports smokescreens to get Maye or Daniels to drop a few spots?

Post #: 8353

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 4:03:48 PM

Mark C. Johnson

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Here's the thing about draft range when it comes to a QB...I don't care. That is, I think he might turn out to be the best of the bunch. If the front office feels the same way, take him at 11 and don't get cute about it.

Post #: 8354

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 4:08:22 PM

Mark Anderson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

Here's the thing about draft range when it comes to a QB...I don't care. That is, I think he might turn out to be the best of the bunch. If the front office feels the same way, take him at 11 and don't get cute about it.

Yep

Post #: 8355

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 4:24:03 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

Agreed. Fields isn't the answer. If he was, Chicago would keep him and I've heard that there isn't much of a trade market for him which speaks volumes. More importantly, he isn't an accurate passer. That's a deal killer right there.

What did he have for weapons and OLine, OC, Weapons, and Coach? You look at what was available to Stroud versus Fields......

Chicago doesn't always make the best decisions but trading away their pick last year was a good move...

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Post #: 8356

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 4:25:00 PM

Bill Jandro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

I have a good feeling about Penix despite the injury issues. It's a risk, but he's got a great arm and he has the one thing that I covet most in a QB...he's accurate.

Penix is also seasoned enough to start as a rookie.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 8357

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 4:27:34 PM

Mark Anderson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

Agreed. Fields isn't the answer. If he was, Chicago would keep him and I've heard that there isn't much of a trade market for him which speaks volumes. More importantly, he isn't an accurate passer. That's a deal killer right there.

What did he have for weapons and OLine, OC, Weapons, and Coach? You look at what was available to Stroud versus Fields......

Chicago doesn't always make the best decisions but trading away their pick last year was a good move...

The trouble with this is Chicago is not going to trade to division opponent unless they get a good haul(probably our 2nd rounder).

Post #: 8358

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 4:46:39 PM

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The thing with Fields is we'd get a cheap year for KOC (and now McNown) to work with him to see what his real ceiling is. Chicago is such a dumpster fire for QB's it's hard to judge him. I'm not at all saying that's my favorite choice but I would take that chance over KC's for 2 guaranteed years at 40+ each. Or whatever outrages demands he's gonna attempt.

You almost have to pick up (and believe he's worth) his 5th year option though.

If you don't, you're saying you don't have faith he's your guy - so you're just wasting another year of the franchise.

2/29 Million. Still saving a ton for 2 years. Again if you are justifying the move is to save money(you are saving around 50 million compared to what Kirk is getting). Fields and Lance can end up being better than the top 4 options if put in our dynamic offense. Gives you 2 years to build around them...

And most likely sets you back 2 years, so we're having this same conversation in 2026...

Same thing could happen with a QB you draft....

But we don't have actual NFL tape on the rookies like we do for the 3 year guys.

I'll take my chance with a rookie over another team's throw away.

Post #: 8359

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 8:15:33 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

I have a good feeling about Penix despite the injury issues. It's a risk, but he's got a great arm and he has the one thing that I covet most in a QB...he's accurate.

Penix is also seasoned enough to start as a rookie.

I like Penix about equally with McCarthy. I'll give McCarthy the slight edge due to not having a huge injury history.

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Post #: 8360

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 8:17:00 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

I have a good feeling about Penix despite the injury issues. It's a risk, but he's got a great arm and he has the one thing that I covet most in a QB...he's accurate.

Best arm talent counting accuracy in the draft.

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Post #: 8361

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 8:18:42 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

I have a good feeling about Penix despite the injury issues. It's a risk, but he's got a great arm and he has the one thing that I covet most in a QB...he's accurate.

Where do you think his draft range is? #20 to #40??

If the Vikings don't draft a QB in round one I think we are the absolute limit to where Penix will be drafted at 42.

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Post #: 8362

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 8:25:53 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77901
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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

I have a good feeling about Penix despite the injury issues. It's a risk, but he's got a great arm and he has the one thing that I covet most in a QB...he's accurate.

Where do you think his draft range is? #20 to #40??

I think he goes a lot closer to 11 than to 42.

Post #: 8363

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/5/2024 8:43:29 PM

marty

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KC won because they picked Mahomes at 11 which is half the cost on rookie contracts of a top 3.

KC won because they picked MAHOMES. Had they picked up Mahomes in the top 3, they still would have won, but they won SOONER by picking him at #10.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 8364

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 8:00:24 AM

Bill Johanesen

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The cuts are increasing. Just for a snapshot, Vikes are 16th in cap space.

Post #: 8365

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 8:06:48 AM

Bill Johanesen

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The Shhh, Don't Tell Anyone Tampering Period has officially kicked off and will run until the Legal Tampering Period begins Monday.

Post #: 8366

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 9:50:04 AM

Trekgeekscott

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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

I have a good feeling about Penix despite the injury issues. It's a risk, but he's got a great arm and he has the one thing that I covet most in a QB...he's accurate.

I like these things too. How is his pocket presence? Does he wilt under pressure? Does he move around in the pocket or just stand their waiting to be hit. How quickly does he learn and adjust to what opposing defenses are doing to him? He can be accurate when the pressure is light but when they are coming at him from places he doesn't expect does he handle it well and take advantage?

One more thing. Does he know to spike the ball at the appropriate time in the two minute drill?

Cause seriously, that shit really annoyed me last year out of a veteran like Cousins.

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Post #: 8367

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 9:52:34 AM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The thing with Fields is we'd get a cheap year for KOC (and now McNown) to work with him to see what his real ceiling is. Chicago is such a dumpster fire for QB's it's hard to judge him. I'm not at all saying that's my favorite choice but I would take that chance over KC's for 2 guaranteed years at 40+ each. Or whatever outrages demands he's gonna attempt.

You almost have to pick up (and believe he's worth) his 5th year option though.

If you don't, you're saying you don't have faith he's your guy - so you're just wasting another year of the franchise.

2/29 Million. Still saving a ton for 2 years. Again if you are justifying the move is to save money(you are saving around 50 million compared to what Kirk is getting). Fields and Lance can end up being better than the top 4 options if put in our dynamic offense. Gives you 2 years to build around them...

And most likely sets you back 2 years, so we're having this same conversation in 2026...

Same thing could happen with a QB you draft....

But we don't have actual NFL tape on the rookies like we do for the 3 year guys.

I'll take my chance with a rookie over another team's throw away.

It's simple for me. If they were any good at that position, the other team wouldn't be just throwing them away like this.

At least with Russel Wilson he has a history of knowing how to win. Fields never has. Lance never has. Their teams gave up quickly on them. Stay away from them.

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Post #: 8368

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 11:26:24 AM

marty

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Isn't Cousins sort of a high risk for Kwesi to sign ?

If they start our 0-5, and don't make the playoffs, fans might want both KOC and Kwesi fired.

Get a 1st round QB (and maybe a cheaper bridge vet QB as well), and that gives KOC and Kwesi at least another 2 years.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 8369

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 12:16:57 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

KC won because they picked Mahomes at 11 which is half the cost on rookie contracts of a top 3.

KC won because they picked MAHOMES. Had they picked up Mahomes in the top 3, they still would have won, but they won SOONER by picking him at #10.

Again look at the list of the last 20 QBs drafted in the first round......% is around 20%. Then if you talk about SB type QBs...

Fields and Lance don't look so bad with those numbers. So they have to remain an option.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 3/6/2024 12:20:25 PM >

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Post #: 8370

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 12:19:33 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Isn't Cousins sort of a high risk for Kwesi to sign ?

If they start our 0-5, and don't make the playoffs, fans might want both KOC and Kwesi fired.

Get a 1st round QB (and maybe a cheaper bridge vet QB as well), and that gives KOC and Kwesi at least another 2 years.

Marty....
What are your thoughs on Pinkett going into 2024? I know you where high on him.

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Post #: 8371

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 1:45:44 PM

joejitsu

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From: 60411
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

I have a good feeling about Penix despite the injury issues. It's a risk, but he's got a great arm and he has the one thing that I covet most in a QB...he's accurate.

I like these things too. How is his pocket presence? Does he wilt under pressure? Does he move around in the pocket or just stand their waiting to be hit. How quickly does he learn and adjust to what opposing defenses are doing to him? He can be accurate when the pressure is light but when they are coming at him from places he doesn't expect does he handle it well and take advantage?

One more thing. Does he know to spike the ball at the appropriate time in the two minute drill?

Cause seriously, that shit really annoyed me last year out of a veteran like Cousins.

Personally, I am afraid of any prospect with his injury history. And the times I've seen him play (Indiana and Washington), he really needs to focus on his awareness in the pocket. He is very accurate, though. He's able to make 50 yard bombs look easy.

Post #: 8372

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/6/2024 6:29:42 PM

marty

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Is Pinkett a nickname for Pickett?

He has thrown some game winners, but has been injured a lot, and throws too many picks. It seems the Steeler fan base is giving up on him, a little quickly, but he hasn't set the world on fire.

I liked Lawrence, and he seemed to regress last year. I liked Richardson, and he can't stay healthy.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 8373

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/7/2024 7:13:28 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Is Pinkett a nickname for Pickett?

He has thrown some game winners, but has been injured a lot, and throws too many picks. It seems the Steeler fan base is giving up on him, a little quickly, but he hasn't set the world on fire.

I liked Lawrence, and he seemed to regress last year. I liked Richardson, and he can't stay healthy.

That is 3 first rounders there....which one has taken their team to the SB?

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SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 8374

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/7/2024 9:38:59 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Former Viking File:

Eric Thompson
@eric_j_thompson
·
8m
Wow. He had a 46.0 PFF grade after getting traded to Jacksonville last year.
Quote
NFL
@NFL
·
14m
Jaguars G Ezra Cleveland has agreed to terms on a new 3-year deal worth $28.5M, with $14.5M guaranteed. (via @RapSheet)

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SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 8375