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RE: 2024 Draft - 2/1/2024 2:12:23 PM

David Levine

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Arif Hasan:

Senior Bowl Standouts the Vikings Should Keep An Eye On

QUARTERBACK

The quarterback situation in Mobile was much better than we’ve been used to in recent years, but it’s still pretty bleak. Two quarterbacks – Michael Penix Jr. and Bo Nix – needed to make their case as potential first-round prospects, and there was buzz that Nix might accomplish that task this week.

He did not. Had Nix been inconsistent, it would have been a blessing. Instead, he was consistently off-target, often throwing sideline passes out of bounds and in-breaking routes behind the receiver. His control over ball velocity was minimal, and there were moments we saw short underneath routes with too much mustard and deeper throws without enough air.

It’s been a very disappointing couple of days for him. While his film looks like a Day 2 prospect to me, his performance in these isolated practices – devoid of context or preparation, in all fairness – looks more like a Day 3 prospect with tremendous upside.

Penix hasn’t been disappointing, but he also hasn’t been outstanding. The arm strength he’s been known for hasn’t really revealed itself in astounding fashion, and he has been overshadowed by the howitzer Joe Milton III is carrying around. That’s not a bad thing for Penix, who is showing more touch and anticipation than any other big-name quarterback prospect, but he’s not making unique or interesting plays in a way that screams board movement.

But the guy with the rocket arm, Milton, has been more of an issue than Nix, who at least is making completions. Milton is regularly creating interceptions, firing lasers to receivers before the route concept develops and forcing drops or incompletions with his play. He improved on Day 2, but Milton clearly needs development. The issue is that Milton has had six years of college football to develop. It just may not be there.

Spencer Rattler threw perhaps the worst interception of any quarterback on Day 1, but he still may have had the most consistent performance. Rattler regularly demonstrated touch and accuracy with command of the simplified offense the Senior Bowl crafts for its prospects. Rattler wasn’t the “best” quarterback on either day. Day 1 probably goes to Penix, whose anticipation could trick you into thinking he had chemistry with receivers he never played with. But Rattler certainly seemed better than the way he’s been talked about as a draft prospect.

Carter Bradley is the most interesting player to me. The local quarterback from the University of South Alabama happens to be Gus Bradley’s son. He wasn’t anything special on Day 1 but was honestly outstanding on Day 2. He showcased great anticipation, good arm strength, and fantastic accuracy on some very tough throws.

https://zonecoverage.com/2024/minnesota-vikings-news/senior-bowl-standouts-the-vikings-should-keep-an-eye-on-2/

Post #: 101

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/1/2024 2:13:23 PM

David Levine

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Five Senior Bowl takeaways from Tuesday

1) Michael Penix Jr.'s arm talent stands out on Day 1.

It's tough for quarterbacks to step in and dominate on the first day of Senior Bowl practice as they acclimate to a new offense and new teammates, and each of the National Team QBs had their share of ups and downs. But of the four, Washington QB Michael Penix Jr. probably did the most to open eyes with some of his throws.

He hit Michigan WR Roman Wilson on a deep crosser to the far side of the field on one of his best throws of the day, delivering it with touch and placement between two defenders.

Penix's arm talent just looked different working next to Oregon's Bo Nix and Notre Dame's Sam Hartman. Penix also looked more comfortable taking snaps from center than the others did through one practice.

But there were at least two plays in full-team sessions where Penix likely held onto the ball too long. He also misfired on a few other passes and didn't finish his day quite as strong as he started.

The week has just begun, and Penix seemed to gain an early edge, but not so much so that the others can't catch up.

2) Experience matters for Oregon QB Bo Nix.

Nix, who left Auburn to star for the Ducks, spoke Tuesday morning about his return to his home state and what he hopes to accomplish at the Senior Bowl as a way to help launch his NFL career.

Nix said he felt his vast experience in college football (61 career starts) has helped him pick up new concepts and different terminology quickly, which can be a huge benefit during Senior Bowl week, when players are tasked with learning an offense in less than a week.

"Five offenses in five years, five different play-callers," Nix said. "So, I've been around the block."

Anyone who watched Nix play for Auburn and Oregon can attest to the differences in what he was asked to do at each place. Nix did have some underthrows as the quarterbacks and receivers started to work together for the first time on Tuesday. There also was clearly an adjustment to working under center, which Nix did very little of in college at either stop. Nix seemed to settle in more as the practice wore on, though. His footwork looked cleaner and his ball placement improved, as he hit USC WR Brennan Rice (son of legendary receiver Jerry Rice) on a nice pump-and-go for a touchdown and closed out the first team period with a good connection to Penn State TE Theo Johnson.

If Nix, who's ranked the No. 23 prospect in the draft by NFL Network analyst Daniel Jeremiah, can improve with his comfort level and execution in the days ahead, this can be a good week for him.

https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-senior-bowl-day-1-standouts-wrs-ladd-mcconkey-roman-wilson-separating-from-pack?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cfb

Post #: 102

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/1/2024 2:22:29 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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If we do not draft a first round QB , and keep drafting qb high in the draft order untill we get a rookie prospect, unless some of the playoff caliber QB, not named one and done KFC , fall into our lap.. I predict DECADES of SSDD.. on top of the decades already passed..

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Post #: 103

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/1/2024 2:23:50 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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Qb..OL.. AND DL..

We have spent years drafting secondary and WR players for Zero ROI.

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Post #: 104

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/1/2024 4:41:49 PM

Todd M

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Make Washington deal with us. Pay whatever.

Trade down every pick. Get good at finding meat and potato guys that might not flash all pro but won’t bust out.

Keep JJ and find a quality RB.

Post #: 105

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/2/2024 11:02:08 AM

Tom Sykes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Make Washington deal with us. Pay whatever.

Trade down every pick. Get good at finding meat and potato guys that might not flash all pro but won’t bust out.

Keep JJ and find a quality RB.

How long has it been since WASH has had a top QB prospect?

Robert Griffin (+KC) in 2012.

[They drafted Haskins #15 in 2019 but released him him after 2020.]

At pick#2, I suppose it’s possible they are not sold on one out of the big three ... but 2.

Maybe NE at #3 if they aren’t %100 on the third leftover prospect ... but when you’ve been spoiled for so long, not sure they aren’t as desperate as anybody. Who knows.

We should try everything. Getting one of the big three gives you perfect clarity, at least for awhile. The alternative is murky as hell.

I’m beginning to think we are looking at a first rd. CB or Edge, McCarthy or Penix somewhere in the 2nd after smartyslimfitpants Kwesi recoups the third rd TE give-away pick, DL or CB in the third (depending on the first rd), OL and LB in the 4th, etc etc.

Post #: 106

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/2/2024 11:17:48 AM

Tom Sykes

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I was actually happy when when we traded for Hockensen. I didn’t think Kwesi had an aggressive move in him. I thought Hock would be like a an extra WR working down the field.

Very short sighted of me but I’m a dumbass fan. What’s Kwesi’s excuse?

Second guessing, I know.

I have never subscribed to the all in tank mode. I’m an extreme moderate so ... 50-60% tanking feels more comfortable. But I cannot see Kwesi building anything without a plethora of picks and a big wad of FA cash.

Maybe we should trade down picks this year to create a bigger target radius in 2025 for Kwesi’s questionable dart accuracy.

Post #: 107

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/2/2024 11:19:53 AM

Jeff Jesser

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To me, at least, the only 'shocks' are if one of the new D leaning HC's wants to put his stamp on that side of the ball. If not, the top 4 should be a lock. Maybe not the exact order but the 3 QB's and Harrison Jr.

Post #: 108

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/2/2024 12:08:10 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I was actually happy when when we traded for Hockensen. I didn’t think Kwesi had an aggressive move in him. I thought Hock would be like a an extra WR working down the field.

Very short sighted of me but I’m a dumbass fan. What’s Kwesi’s excuse?

Second guessing, I know.

I have never subscribed to the all in tank mode. I’m an extreme moderate so ... 50-60% tanking feels more comfortable. But I cannot see Kwesi building anything without a plethora of picks and a big wad of FA cash.

Maybe we should trade down picks this year to create a bigger target radius in 2025 for Kwesi’s questionable dart accuracy.

Agree with your whole take on the Hock deal. I thought it was a great deal. Even a small measure of revenge for getting fleeced on draft day. Hock is good, but we overpaid to get and overpaid again to keep him.

I'm no fan of tanking either. It breeds a culture of losing that outweighs the benefits of higher picks.

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Post #: 109

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/2/2024 1:39:32 PM

Tom Sykes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I was actually happy when when we traded for Hockensen. I didn’t think Kwesi had an aggressive move in him. I thought Hock would be like a an extra WR working down the field.

Very short sighted of me but I’m a dumbass fan. What’s Kwesi’s excuse?

Second guessing, I know.

I have never subscribed to the all in tank mode. I’m an extreme moderate so ... 50-60% tanking feels more comfortable. But I cannot see Kwesi building anything without a plethora of picks and a big wad of FA cash.

Maybe we should trade down picks this year to create a bigger target radius in 2025 for Kwesi’s questionable dart accuracy.

Agree with your whole take on the Hock deal. I thought it was a great deal. Even a small measure of revenge for getting fleeced on draft day. Hock is good, but we overpaid to get and overpaid again to keep him.

I'm no fan of tanking either. It breeds a culture of losing that outweighs the benefits of higher picks.

For sure. However, you have to have a smart, aggressive, big picture GM that is not just playing wingman to your HC. That can draft at least adequately.

You don't want a Spielman Zimmer end-of-their-run toxic relationship ... but somebody has to course correct where mistakes are made and make everyone else in the organization accountable. Not sure who banged the draft table for Cine / Booth for instance but they should be scrubbing restrooms at this point.

I just don't feel a sense of urgency or accountability. I sense a clubby atmosphere of shoulder rubbing at communal baths.

Right now its the Kwesi & Kevin show. With not a lot of significant improvement from the 2021 roster. Going the other direction, if anything.

Post #: 110

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/2/2024 3:32:42 PM

joejitsu

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We HAVE to get a qb out of this draft. If that question gets answered, we'll be good in two years. Spend the rest of the picks on iol and big dl guys. It's easier to find a good cb or edge rusher than it is to find a standout qb. And there is at least 4 quality qb's in this draft (in my opinion).

Post #: 111

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/5/2024 9:20:15 AM

Phil Riewer

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Thoughts on the SC QB (Rattler). Some are comparing him to what Russell was when he was drafted.

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Post #: 112

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/5/2024 10:56:39 AM

marty

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A lot of signs point towards the Vikings drafting Penix:

1) they're not likely to move up
2) He likely won't be drafted top 3, probably not top 10
3) Kwesi is fine with an injury background
4) He seemed to pick up things quickly at the senior bowl

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Post #: 113

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/5/2024 10:58:57 AM

Todd M

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Sounds like to me McCarthy is as arguably good as Daniels or Maye. And Penix can’t be that far behind. Therefore let’s keep our capital and take one of them at 11.

Mr I’m not a businessman, I’m a business man…is no longer the dream. I see him holding out after 3 years if he doesn’t hit a new deal worth more than everyone else.

Post #: 114

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/5/2024 11:04:52 AM

marty

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I like the idea of JJ throwing to JJ, and like that JJ performed well in his bowl game, but then again I thought the same thing with AJ McCarron.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 115

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/5/2024 11:05:21 AM

marty

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Post #: 116

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/5/2024 11:20:49 AM

Mark Anderson

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How about BPA(defense) at #11.

Trade 2nd Rounder, 4th rounder and 2025 1st Rounder to move back into 1st round and get Penix or McCarthy.

Post #: 117

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/5/2024 12:51:07 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

How about BPA(defense) at #11.

Trade 2nd Rounder, 4th rounder and 2025 1st Rounder to move back into 1st round and get Penix or McCarthy.

The QB we want may not be available later in the 1st round. There are mocks that have McCarthy going 12th right now.

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Post #: 118

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/5/2024 1:14:12 PM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

How about BPA(defense) at #11.

Trade 2nd Rounder, 4th rounder and 2025 1st Rounder to move back into 1st round and get Penix or McCarthy.

The QB we want may not be available later in the 1st round. There are mocks that have McCarthy going 12th right now.

Agreed.

And if both guys perform well at the Combine/Pro Days, we might be lucky to get whoever remains at 11.

Its too important of a position to risk getting too cute with picks.

Post #: 119

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/6/2024 10:51:12 AM

Pauldiercks1

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Yeah, unfortunately it seems we screwed up winning too much "again" this year to get one of the top guys. If we can't trade up to #2 which seems highly unlikely, we can always hope for 3 or less wins next season. Winning next year is already irrelevant if we can't trade up. None of the QB's in the senior bowl excite me as anything more than decent, then over the next four years figuring out we were still looking for the right guy. We try to see something because we are hoping to strike gold but I'm just not seeing it so far.
I'm don't know about scouting but I'm usually pretty good just visually making an opinion and I feel taking Penix Nix etc. as just wasting time to still needing an upgrade. Hopefully I'm wrong. We had people here that liked Teddy because he was a good guy, who cares, It's simply just a waste of time.

Post #: 120

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/6/2024 2:12:16 PM

Todd M

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Have a feeling if we don’t or can’t move up we’re going to be left with the 5th choice of QB when Denver or LV jumps to 10.

Post #: 121

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/6/2024 3:05:10 PM

Todd M

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Milton doesn’t look like a slouch.

If we found ourselves outplayed out of any of the consensus top 5 he’d be a better shot as the answer than Hall ever will.

Post #: 122

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/6/2024 3:32:34 PM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Milton doesn’t look like a slouch.

If we found ourselves outplayed out of any of the consensus top 5 he’d be a better shot as the answer than Hall ever will.

quote:

But the guy with the rocket arm, Milton, has been more of an issue than Nix, who at least is making completions. Milton is regularly creating interceptions, firing lasers to receivers before the route concept develops and forcing drops or incompletions with his play. He improved on Day 2, but Milton clearly needs development. The issue is that Milton has had six years of college football to develop. It just may not be there.

But the guy with the rocket arm, Milton, has been more of an issue than Nix, who at least is making completions. Milton is regularly creating interceptions, firing lasers to receivers before the route concept develops and forcing drops or incompletions with his play. He improved on Day 2, but Milton clearly needs development. The issue is that Milton has had six years of college football to develop. It just may not be there.

Sounds like a major project and he'll be 24 in a month.

Post #: 123

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/6/2024 3:33:24 PM

Phil Riewer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Milton doesn’t look like a slouch.

If we found ourselves outplayed out of any of the consensus top 5 he’d be a better shot as the answer than Hall ever will.

quote:

But the guy with the rocket arm, Milton, has been more of an issue than Nix, who at least is making completions. Milton is regularly creating interceptions, firing lasers to receivers before the route concept develops and forcing drops or incompletions with his play. He improved on Day 2, but Milton clearly needs development. The issue is that Milton has had six years of college football to develop. It just may not be there.

But the guy with the rocket arm, Milton, has been more of an issue than Nix, who at least is making completions. Milton is regularly creating interceptions, firing lasers to receivers before the route concept develops and forcing drops or incompletions with his play. He improved on Day 2, but Milton clearly needs development. The issue is that Milton has had six years of college football to develop. It just may not be there.

Sounds like a major project and he'll be 24 in a month.

DL what do you think about Rattler?

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Post #: 124

RE: 2024 Draft - 2/6/2024 3:33:37 PM

David Levine

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Two respected ESPN draft analysts have recently updated their top 2024 quarterbacks, and both have similar grades on Milton. Mel Kiper Jr. has Milton as his No. 10 quarterback in the class while Jordan Reid slots him in at No. 11. He sits behind LSU quarterback Jayden Daniels and South Carolina quarterback Spencer Rattler on both lists, not unpredictable for those who watched football across the entire conference this season.

It seems that Milton has a day-three grade on him, and there are murmurs that he could potentially be an undrafted free agent. There are many events between now and the NFL Draft in April, but Milton has his work cut out for him. A few league executives have anonymously said they need Milton to continue ironing out his inconsistencies to show more peaks than valleys.

https://www.si.com/college/tennessee/football/joe-milton-draft-stock-after-declaring

Post #: 125