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RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT

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RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/7/2024 3:52:16 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12791
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Welp…

Loooooong off season ahead..

Really hoping KFC takes his cap hit out of Minnesota..


The danger with KFC's $28.5 dead cap is it only applies if he leaves, i.e. they could try to resign him and work some more void year/dead cap magic beyond 2024.


Wow. He could be around our neck in some form for several more years? That's crazy.



He has all the leverage too because we have to make a decision by March 13th. On the 14th that deap cap space is a lock on our cap. He can hardball us bigtime.


Geez. I'm glad you all know a lot about how the salary cap works, because it's like Greek to me. Let's hope he chooses to move on his own, but that doesn't seem likely.

Too much hoping to cling to the status quo..
Detroit ditched Stafford.. got Goff, and picks..

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 251
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/7/2024 3:58:40 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19063
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We might leapfrog the Jets in the draft but the SOS is incredibly close so will have to wait for the games to conclude.



mackey did the math, and we were tied - now, ours got tougher, and the jets got easier....


Bummer, but the afternoon games have to be played. It's Buff v Miami tonight, which is .500 so good for the Jets.

We were a bit 'ahead', i.e. a slightly easier schedule.

Ironically, losing to the Lions makes our SOS a tiny bit better... which could cause us to lose out to the Jets. That kind of irony always exists though.

Who is Mackey?



Local sports guy that works for Skor North. He's good at stuff like that
Post #: 252
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/7/2024 4:04:21 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27508
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We might leapfrog the Jets in the draft but the SOS is incredibly close so will have to wait for the games to conclude.



mackey did the math, and we were tied - now, ours got tougher, and the jets got easier....


Bummer, but the afternoon games have to be played. It's Buff v Miami tonight, which is .500 so good for the Jets.

We were a bit 'ahead', i.e. a slightly easier schedule.

Ironically, losing to the Lions makes our SOS a tiny bit better... which could cause us to lose out to the Jets. That kind of irony always exists though.

Who is Mackey?



Local sports guy that works for Skor North. He's good at stuff like that


Thanks.

Record wise it was key that we lost to Det and the Jets beat NE. But that's a big swing in opponents SOS.
Post #: 253
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/7/2024 4:21:02 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27508
Status: offline 		With Vikings and Jets common opponents as well as several games like GB vs Chi where you can simply assign one win and one loss randomly, I think the opponent SOS can be calculated now. The only outlier game seems to be SF vs Rams with SF as the 'lone' team. Too lazy right now to first list the W/L records for every team.
Post #: 254
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/7/2024 6:04:55 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18181
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Welp…

Loooooong off season ahead..

Really hoping KFC takes his cap hit out of Minnesota..


The danger with KFC's $28.5 dead cap is it only applies if he leaves, i.e. they could try to resign him and work some more void year/dead cap magic beyond 2024.


If you don't mind, how would that worK? IOW, if they resign him for 2 years will there still be money coming out of our cap even after he finished out those two years as well? Im sure this is elementary to some but not to me.
Post #: 255
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/7/2024 8:17:07 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19073
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Welp…

Loooooong off season ahead..

Really hoping KFC takes his cap hit out of Minnesota..


The danger with KFC's $28.5 dead cap is it only applies if he leaves, i.e. they could try to resign him and work some more void year/dead cap magic beyond 2024.


If you don't mind, how would that worK? IOW, if they resign him for 2 years will there still be money coming out of our cap even after he finished out those two years as well? Im sure this is elementary to some but not to me.

I defer to you guys on the capologist stuff.
Post #: 256
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/7/2024 11:02:17 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12791
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: offline 		KFC gets an additional 28. + million from the Vikings, if all he does is sit on his couch and fields offers from teams desperate for a lifetime middle of the road qb who has a lifetime, one win in the playoffs..10 in 2024, 2025, and 4 mill in 2026 and 2077. Al, for absolutely no effort on his part.


If, given his history of fully guaranteed contracts, we are the desperate team, he is going to demand multiple years at some ridiculous salary per year, guaranteed..

That cap money is what, was what, and will be, what prevents the Vikings from fixing the many holes, we will have, and will create trying to sign JJ, and others, and pick up better than barrel scrapers from free agency..
The sad part is his money is not the only money sitting out there dead…

Look at what we are paying Harrison smith..others…

Cousins and that fully guaranteed money, will = 10 million in prorated bonus in 2024, for doing absolutely nothing to contribute to changing course from wannabes, + other amounts of deferred bonus money( the team favors that he gave us by deferring money), that we gave up to keep Mr mediocre after we fell for the bait of getting into the playoff, the first time.
IMO, we are in cap hell, and

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 257
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/7/2024 11:07:33 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12791
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: offline 		We need to bite hard on some bullets and lop off some more dead meat.

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 258
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/8/2024 8:58:57 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27508
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Welp…

Loooooong off season ahead..

Really hoping KFC takes his cap hit out of Minnesota..


The danger with KFC's $28.5 dead cap is it only applies if he leaves, i.e. they could try to resign him and work some more void year/dead cap magic beyond 2024.


If you don't mind, how would that worK? IOW, if they resign him for 2 years will there still be money coming out of our cap even after he finished out those two years as well? Im sure this is elementary to some but not to me.



Once his contract expires, all the money sitting in various void years (for Cousins, it's out to 2027) accelerates/comes due as dead money in the following season (next season, 2024).

If his contract expires and we later resign him as a free agent, that dead money is still due in the same fashion.

So that leaves the scenario where we extend him between now and when his contract expires. I think, but don't know for sure, that they can adjust/change the void year money any way they want but it still has to be accounted for in the books. He's already been paid the money sitting in the void years.

If his dead cap was for example just $10 million and they were flush with cap they could probably transfer that dead cap to his contract over two years and his dead cap would disappear. But $28.5 m is a lot to absorb, especially when a new contract for Cousins won't be cheap. IMO they'd probably add a void year or two to spread out a fair amount of his money.
Post #: 259
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/8/2024 9:13:15 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27508
Status: offline 		Read somewhere that if a player is traded, any so-called unpaid (for accounting purposes) guaranteed salary is transferred to the new team. Thought that could have been another reason to trade Hunter earlier, but his void money is listed under prorated bonus and restructure so I don't think there would have been that extra advantage but am not sure. And because his money is stashed in void years vs being in an active year of his contract, I really don't know.
Post #: 260
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/8/2024 10:47:06 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18181
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online 		Thank you!

This is basically what I thought - probably from your previous explanations - but I appreciate it

Unless Kirk is going to give a heck of a discount where we could use up the void year money there will be money to pay after he leaves.

So, keep doing the same thing, hit on a rookie or go with a Mullins clone. Hope can be a tiring thing.

We need to bite hard on some bullets and lop off some more dead meat.
Post #: 261
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/8/2024 10:53:33 AM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19063
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		The problem they have created with this is that he holds all the cards. He can hold his ground and a 40+ mill a year with 2 years guaranteed (just an example) and then what?

You say "yes" and we continue down this same path just kicking the can down the road again or you say "no" and he walks, gets his money from someone else, and we still have 28 mill on the books for next year. All this has to be decided by March 13th BTW and who knows how his rehab will look at that point.
Post #: 262
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/8/2024 11:24:22 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27508
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Thank you!

This is basically what I thought - probably from your previous explanations - but I appreciate it

Unless Kirk is going to give a heck of a discount where we could use up the void year money there will be money to pay after he leaves.

So, keep doing the same thing, hit on a rookie or go with a Mullins clone. Hope can be a tiring thing.

We need to bite hard on some bullets and lop off some more dead meat.


It's sort of the circle of life in the NFL.

As for lopping off more dead meat, Harrison Smith - at his current salary for 2024 - has to be the top target.
Post #: 263
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/8/2024 11:25:54 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27508
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The problem they have created with this is that he holds all the cards. He can hold his ground and a 40+ mill a year with 2 years guaranteed (just an example) and then what?

You say "yes" and we continue down this same path just kicking the can down the road again or you say "no" and he walks, gets his money from someone else, and we still have 28 mill on the books for next year. All this has to be decided by March 13th BTW and who knows how his rehab will look at that point.


He doesn't hold all the cards. 4-6 QBs will be coming out. He will be bargaining as an unemployed, old QB dealing with an achilles injury.
Post #: 264
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/8/2024 1:39:56 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18181
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The problem they have created with this is that he holds all the cards. He can hold his ground and a 40+ mill a year with 2 years guaranteed (just an example) and then what?

You say "yes" and we continue down this same path just kicking the can down the road again or you say "no" and he walks, gets his money from someone else, and we still have 28 mill on the books for next year. All this has to be decided by March 13th BTW and who knows how his rehab will look at that point.


He doesn't hold all the cards. 4-6 QBs will be coming out. He will be bargaining as an unemployed, old QB dealing with an achilles injury.

I was going to say a similar thing: he should hold nothing; give MN a hell of a deal if you want a shot at a championship or shoot for it somewhere else. Right now it's, do you want a championship or is money more important to you ... as I see it.
Post #: 265
RE: WEEK 18: @ Lions 1-7-24 12:00PM CT - 1/8/2024 1:59:49 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76782
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The problem they have created with this is that he holds all the cards. He can hold his ground and a 40+ mill a year with 2 years guaranteed (just an example) and then what?

You say "yes" and we continue down this same path just kicking the can down the road again or you say "no" and he walks, gets his money from someone else, and we still have 28 mill on the books for next year. All this has to be decided by March 13th BTW and who knows how his rehab will look at that point.


He doesn't hold all the cards. 4-6 QBs will be coming out. He will be bargaining as an unemployed, old QB dealing with an achilles injury.

I was going to say a similar thing: he should hold nothing; give MN a hell of a deal if you want a shot at a championship or shoot for it somewhere else. Right now it's, do you want a championship or is money more important to you ... as I see it.


Sadly he might end up with the most money and not a good shot at a championship...

...with us.
Post #: 266
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