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RE: General Vikes Talk

 
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 2:30:42 PM   
marty


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Great post David.

I agree that Sam needs to have a little Kirk Cousins check down in him certain times, against certain defenses.

I wonder if Darnold just isn't very good at those, and that Daniel Jones (and JJ McCarthy) being quicker, will be able to better use those sorts of plays at times.

In his defense, Sam was a little low on his 3rd down throw to Akers that sealed the Packer's game, but he was right on the money on the throw to Akers for the go ahead TD, and Sam had the awareness to make sure Akers was in the right spot.

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Post #: 4751
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 3:18:27 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online
Really interesting topic just came up on NFL Live. They were talking about Watson's injury. According to him they are 68 in the red for the salary cap next year so they HAVE to go cheap at QB (this assumes he's done for all of 25).

His take "I would be on the phone with the Vikings as soon as the season ends and see what it takes to get JJM. They have 2 assets that may temp. Miles Garrett or the #2 overall pick."


Would you do either or 1 and a combo of something else?
Post #: 4752
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 3:25:12 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 78202
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Really interesting topic just came up on NFL Live. They were talking about Watson's injury. According to him they are 68 in the red for the salary cap next year so they HAVE to go cheap at QB (this assumes he's done for all of 25).

His take "I would be on the phone with the Vikings as soon as the season ends and see what it takes to get JJM. They have 2 assets that may temp. Miles Garrett or the #2 overall pick."


Would you do either or 1 and a combo of something else?


Get back to me Monday night...
Post #: 4753
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 3:59:35 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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Well, I think that obviously means he plays well and they would have to think about bringing him back for 3 years or go with JJM
Post #: 4754
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 4:00:25 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9652
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Really interesting topic just came up on NFL Live. They were talking about Watson's injury. According to him they are 68 in the red for the salary cap next year so they HAVE to go cheap at QB (this assumes he's done for all of 25).

His take "I would be on the phone with the Vikings as soon as the season ends and see what it takes to get JJM. They have 2 assets that may temp. Miles Garrett or the #2 overall pick."


Would you do either or 1 and a combo of something else?


if it came to trading mccarthy, i'd really try to talk the NY giants into dexter lawrance and their 1st, and 2nd....

but i'd rather trade darnold....

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Post #: 4755
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 4:41:48 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10516
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Really interesting topic just came up on NFL Live. They were talking about Watson's injury. According to him they are 68 in the red for the salary cap next year so they HAVE to go cheap at QB (this assumes he's done for all of 25).

His take "I would be on the phone with the Vikings as soon as the season ends and see what it takes to get JJM. They have 2 assets that may temp. Miles Garrett or the #2 overall pick."


Would you do either or 1 and a combo of something else?


if it came to trading mccarthy, i'd really try to talk the NY giants into dexter lawrance and their 1st, and 2nd....

but i'd rather trade darnold....



I'd rather trade darnold too. BUT if I were trading with the Browns for JJ, I'd ask for Ward. Stud CB. Base salaries of 2025: 13M, 26: 17M, 27: 17M. Garrett is a beast but would play the same position as Greenard in a 3/4 defense. I'd ask for Ward, their 2025 2nd, and a 2026 conditional 2nd that could become a first. Sign Indy's guard Will Fries (PFF score just behind Nelson), sign BJ Hill. That's a team that could win with SD and not crush the salary cap.

If the Giants came knocking, then Dexter would have to be included in the conversation.

< Message edited by Pager -- 1/10/2025 4:52:51 PM >


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Post #: 4756
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 5:07:19 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.



Not true. For example, the SB losses were not chokes. A case could be made that the Vikes did not take the Chiefs seriously and were upset. But prognosticators aside, history shows those Chiefs teams were stacked. Miami, Pitts, Oak were all powerhouses.

Losses in the playoffs since are a mixed bag. '98 was a choke I pin on Gary Andersen who had not missed a FG all year I think. If he made that chip shot FG, we would have been up two scores late. The Blair Walsh project was a choke. This year, Darnold launching space rockets was a pure choke.


Gary Anderson’s kick was 37 yards in door AND he hadn’t missed all year.

It’s an all sport all time choke.

He took a Freaking Knee!


Every time I hear that I think to John Madden calling the Patriots game against the Rams in the SB. Madden thought it crazy to he going for the win and not OT with a 1:30 left on the clock. Teams all the time now are pressing the envelope with little time left but that wasn’t always the case.

Wasn't there like 4 minutes left when Denny panicked and had Cunningham take a knee?

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Post #: 4757
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 5:16:03 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20157
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.



Not true. For example, the SB losses were not chokes. A case could be made that the Vikes did not take the Chiefs seriously and were upset. But prognosticators aside, history shows those Chiefs teams were stacked. Miami, Pitts, Oak were all powerhouses.

Losses in the playoffs since are a mixed bag. '98 was a choke I pin on Gary Andersen who had not missed a FG all year I think. If he made that chip shot FG, we would have been up two scores late. The Blair Walsh project was a choke. This year, Darnold launching space rockets was a pure choke.


Gary Anderson’s kick was 37 yards in door AND he hadn’t missed all year.

It’s an all sport all time choke.

He took a Freaking Knee!


Every time I hear that I think to John Madden calling the Patriots game against the Rams in the SB. Madden thought it crazy to he going for the win and not OT with a 1:30 left on the clock. Teams all the time now are pressing the envelope with little time left but that wasn’t always the case.

Wasn't there like 4 minutes left when Denny panicked and had Cunningham take a knee?

Under a minute. I think around the 34 yard line. My memory sucks now.
Post #: 4758
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 5:28:47 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10516
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
GREAT READ

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6047618/2025/01/09/sam-darnold-vikings-kevin-oconnell-support/

O’Connell did not know Udinski well before hiring him in 2022 as an assistant, but Vikings tight ends coach Brian Angelichio brought up the former Davidson tight end and Towson edge rusher after having worked with him with the Carolina Panthers. O’Connell’s exposure to Udinski over two years, observing his almost worrisome level of film-watching and his work with Josh Dobbs and Jaren Hall last season, led to him believing Udinski he could handle more.

Making the marriage even more perfect was this: Both McCown and Udinski had spent meaningful time with Darnold. With the Jets in 2018, McCown assisted in Darnold’s introduction to the NFL. Udinski worked with him with the Panthers in 2021. Who better to build trust with a new quarterback than people who actually witnessed and understood what he’d been through?

McCown and Udinski gave Darnold a headstart on the Vikings system and process. The Vikings have played to Darnold’s strengths as a quarterback, which has helped. But from the outset, Darnold entered a locker room and an offense that had two seasons’ worth of reps together. There were routes Jefferson liked to run, concepts O’Connell preferred to call. Meeting somewhere in the middle meant openness, adaptation and faith. McCown’s and Udinski’s roles as bridges have been paramount.

Mullens and Rypien pondered a question.

What is most impressive to you about the season Darnold has had?

“His toughness,” Mullens said.

“The resilience of not only his entire career but also the micro of this year,” Rypien said.

“When it’s not going great,” Mullens said, “can you step up and prove yourself? He’s done that.”

“Any time there has been any sort of adversity, he comes back,” Rypien said.

“It’s easy to do it once,” Mullens said. “But he’s done that time after time after time after time to where it almost feels underappreciated, like, ‘Oh, that’s just what Sam does.’”

One of the bigger tests of the season came in early November in Jacksonville. In the first quarter that day, Darnold dropped back and attempted a slant to Jefferson. Interception. In the second quarter, he bounced around in the pocket and hurled a late pass over the middle to Jefferson. Another pick. In the third quarter, he lofted a pass to the corner of the end zone toward Jefferson. A third turnover. Still, the Vikings prevailed 12-7.

O’Connell was asked after the game whether he considered a quarterback change. His response? A defiant no. He insisted Darnold would learn from the outing.

The next day, Darnold sat alongside Mullens, Rypien, O’Connell, McCown, Udinski and offensive coordinator Wes Phillips. They replayed each throw from the previous day and harshly assessed Darnold’s decision-making.

“Sometimes you get into situations, and you’re like, ‘Aw, man,’ and you handle it tentatively,” McCown said. “But it was just like, ‘Let’s get into the mud here, talk about this and go through it.’ And we did. I had the good fortune of coaching my sons, and it’s a similar level of love and care. It’s almost like you coach him harder because you believe in everything that they are.”

Rarely did anyone but Darnold need to speak. He recognized his inconsistent footwork and identified it out loud. He noted his inability to adjust his feet and eyes from one read to the next and shook his head. The review was intense, but that’s been the norm this season.

“With KO and Josh and Sam, there is a level of consistency in saying, ‘We’re not just going to hit the panic button off of one day,’” Udinski said.

In the ensuing days, Darnold and the coaches would emphasize decision-making in the red zone and aspects of his footwork, but they would not scrap their entire process or conviction because of one game. After that Wednesday’s practice, the air horn blew, the team huddled, players dispersed and the quarterbacks came together. McCown joked, and Udinski provided details about defensive back positioning. Darnold then visited the training room, studied the play sheet once more and returned the following day to do it again with another layer of the plan.

Udinski, who reviews the opponent’s film from almost 20 games each week, shares insights on defensive techniques to look for. McCown reiterates some pivotal bits of wisdom: two hands fixated on the ball in the pocket, no sacks on bootlegs, etc. By Saturday, Darnold and the staff meet for the final times, one of which is called a “red-pen meeting,” where O’Connell and Darnold sync about the plays they expect to run and the circumstances that might dictate them.

It’s an exhaustive conversation amid a tireless week throughout a relentless season. It’s what it takes, both for this staff and this quarterback, to be as prepared as O’Connell has conditioned his organization to be.

One of Darnold’s defining traits this season is his accuracy, making last Sunday night’s debacle in Detroit so jarring.

He sailed throws down the middle of the field. He placed some tight-window throws behind receivers. Pro Football Reference tracks “bad throws,” categorized as throws that weren’t catchable with normal effort. His 13 in Week 18 was tied for the most any quarterback has thrown in a game this season, a glaring outlier from his per-game average (4.5).

O’Connell has already fielded questions about why Darnold may have been missing. Was he too revved up for the big moment? Was his pinky finger bothering him? Was something jacked up with his mechanics? All of these are possible culprits, but none are going to force an overhaul ahead of Monday night’s wild-card game against the Los Angeles Rams.

The same reason Darnold has been so successful this season — a clichéd level of commitment and consistency — is the same reason he is well suited for this challenge. Inside the meeting rooms, he will pepper McCown and Udinski with questions.

“We challenge each other: ‘Say the thing. Don’t just assume. Say the thing. Whatever that thing is, say it. Get it out,’” McCown said. “There is no dumb question. And even between Grant and I, it’s like never, ever let a play go by (where) we’re like, ‘I think he’s got it.’ No. We’re going to know.”

Mullens, Rypien, and Daniel Jones will prompt ideas in the after-practice, on-field meetings. Rookie quarterback J.J. McCarthy will scribble reminders on the whiteboard while they’re practicing. O’Connell will oversee it all and then meet with Darnold this weekend to cement the vision for how they’re planning to play the game. This process is not guaranteed to work, not certain to generate touchdowns. It’s not a certification of anything other than the distinct comfort of knowing that what has worked before can work again.

Whether it does depends on what happens within those sacred 60 minutes. A time during which McCown, Udinski, Mullens, Rypien and all of the others support and assist with all their might. They know Darnold’s past. They know what he’s done to get here. Supporting him is their way of showing appreciation for a level of commitment so few of us will ever fully comprehend.

< Message edited by Pager -- 1/10/2025 5:30:16 PM >


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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 4759
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 5:41:50 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10516
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
Marty you'll like the play at 55 sec.

https://youtu.be/V2gkWNvaXuU

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Post #: 4760
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/10/2025 5:42:02 PM   
joejitsu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Well, I think that obviously means he plays well and they would have to think about bringing him back for 3 years or go with JJM


I think the Vikes win by 10. It just feels likes it's our turn.
Post #: 4761
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