quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What it boils down to is this team is flat out soft. We're a finesse team that has to pass to set up the run. But when the pass isn't working (last two games) we got nothing else. Other than Darrisaw this oline is made up of a bunch of sissy boys (including O'Neal).

Things get much tougher and more physical in the post season. Refs let shit go and we just got bullied by one of the more finesse teams of the last decade. Let that sink in for a minute.

First and foremost we did to get some olineman in here that can actually run block. If we're going to roll with JJM he needs to be protected or he's going get ruined. For six seasons we all watched Cousins fill his diaper and we thought we found a steely nerve qb in Sam until the last 2 games when he urinated down his leg.

I've grown tired of watching this team choke when the big games get played. Time to get some tough motherfuckers in here that can move the pile so we can control the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The only question with Darnold is whether we can get anything for him without impacting free agency.

Because anything would be a boost considering most of the upcoming draft was traded away for the #17 pick. And boy was Kwesi happy selecting Turner. I think he'll be good but if he can't get on the field than what is the point?

Kwesi got Edge Happy.

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ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

I understand Vikings fans being upset. I get it. It's a loss in the playoffs.

However, I can't get behind the black and white argument that one person lost this game. That's just emotional and childish.

Agree Brad. A lot has been posted, so some of my two cents is redundant. I'll share my thoughts that I texted a friend that is also/was pro-darnold. He also has a very dark view prognosis for the Vikings. Also posting with the caveat that I haven't done any All22 analysis for routes/etc AND I turned off the game at the end of the 3rd quarter (had early morning start and was not staying awake for that sh#% show).

I put 30% on Darnold, 30% on KOC, 40% on oline. Starting with KOC....the 4th down attempt. JJ on an out was the only option it seemed. Hated that play call. Also wanted him to grow stones and go for it on 4th and 2 instead of the field goal. I figured he was gun shy after the Lions game, but Campbell sure as hell would have gone for it. We were not beating the Rams with Field Goals. Their strip sack and TD on the 2nd and three? Yelling at the TV to check to a run. Get past the line of scrimmage on a blitz, you pick up a ton of yards. Our screen play is abysmal. At some point you gotta make defenses pay for blitzing. Had plenty of chances vs the Lions (Darnold missed them all). Transitioning to Darnold. He simply can’t anticipate. Missed Nailor on a big gainer, but more than accuracy, him waiting until Nailor cleared the LB to throw it??? Terrible. It's a big part of why he holds the ball so fing long. Throw when he's inaccurate and game over. I also was yelling at him to take the F off. One play, he had a clear lane to run, then danced to the right, back into the pocket, held the ball until getting smoked. I felt like there were other instances. Oline - need I say more?

If Darnold had just been average early vs Det the complexion of that game changes.

If Darnold had just been average early against the Rams, the Rams might have called off the dogs. Granted he did complete a few checkdowns.

Instead, we saw a kinda quirky but effective QB turn into some scared rookie. Certainly nobody you could EVER count on, especially given his past futility.

It was like George Plimpton II suddenly showed up on the field, but not for the Lions (or Rams).

Am I coming across as a SD apologist? I railed on him after the Detroit game and posted tons of evidence to support it. I put 100% of the Lions game on him and thought should have been up by 17 at half. Which, to your point, would have changed the game.

Again, my impression last night is without any research, but I didn't feel like it was 100% Darnold. Ineffective running early (either play calling and/or oline play). I also didn't like some of the play calls, which I couldn't say after the Lions game. Not every play call is going to work; sometimes the wrong play and often because of execution. I also thought the oline played worse than the Lions game (LA has an impressive and young defensive front).

It's just my opinion though.

No, not an apologist. 30% blame? Eh

SMH - always with the semantics or splitting hairs. I put a number to it without the benefit of more analysis (which is more than some ppl are willing to do). It could change but I'm good with it right now. You are more than welcome to post your number.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I understand Vikings fans being upset. I get it. It's a loss in the playoffs.

However, I can't get behind the black and white argument that one person lost this game. That's just emotional and childish.

Agree Brad. A lot has been posted, so some of my two cents is redundant. I'll share my thoughts that I texted a friend that is also/was pro-darnold. He also has a very dark view prognosis for the Vikings. Also posting with the caveat that I haven't done any All22 analysis for routes/etc AND I turned off the game at the end of the 3rd quarter (had early morning start and was not staying awake for that sh#% show).

I put 30% on Darnold, 30% on KOC, 40% on oline. Starting with KOC....the 4th down attempt. JJ on an out was the only option it seemed. Hated that play call. Also wanted him to grow stones and go for it on 4th and 2 instead of the field goal. I figured he was gun shy after the Lions game, but Campbell sure as hell would have gone for it. We were not beating the Rams with Field Goals. Their strip sack and TD on the 2nd and three? Yelling at the TV to check to a run. Get past the line of scrimmage on a blitz, you pick up a ton of yards. Our screen play is abysmal. At some point you gotta make defenses pay for blitzing. Had plenty of chances vs the Lions (Darnold missed them all). Transitioning to Darnold. He simply can’t anticipate. Missed Nailor on a big gainer, but more than accuracy, him waiting until Nailor cleared the LB to throw it??? Terrible. It's a big part of why he holds the ball so fing long. Throw when he's inaccurate and game over. I also was yelling at him to take the F off. One play, he had a clear lane to run, then danced to the right, back into the pocket, held the ball until getting smoked. I felt like there were other instances. Oline - need I say more?

If Darnold had just been average early vs Det the complexion of that game changes.

If Darnold had just been average early against the Rams, the Rams might have called off the dogs. Granted he did complete a few checkdowns.

Instead, we saw a kinda quirky but effective QB turn into some scared rookie. Certainly nobody you could EVER count on, especially given his past futility.

It was like George Plimpton II suddenly showed up on the field, but not for the Lions (or Rams).

Am I coming across as a SD apologist? I railed on him after the Detroit game and posted tons of evidence to support it. I put 100% of the Lions game on him and thought should have been up by 17 at half. Which, to your point, would have changed the game.

Again, my impression last night is without any research, but I didn't feel like it was 100% Darnold. Ineffective running early (either play calling and/or oline play). I also didn't like some of the play calls, which I couldn't say after the Lions game. Not every play call is going to work; sometimes the wrong play and often because of execution. I also thought the oline played worse than the Lions game (LA has an impressive and young defensive front).

It's just my opinion though.

No, not an apologist. 30% blame? Eh

SMH - always with the semantics or splitting hairs. I put a number to it without the benefit of more analysis (which is more than some ppl are willing to do). It could change but I'm good with it right now. You are more than welcome to post your number.

Literally trying to kid you on the percentage.

But since we're here I'll say no percentage needs to be assigned to a QB who chokes. He choked more against the Lions, and did absolutely nothing to overcome any obstacles against the Rams.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The only question with Darnold is whether we can get anything for him without impacting free agency.

Because anything would be a boost considering most of the upcoming draft was traded away for the #17 pick. And boy was Kwesi happy selecting Turner. I think he'll be good but if he can't get on the field than what is the point?

Kwesi got Edge Happy.

Good point about Turner. That interception and speed sack (going to the knee) were incredible. He also showed great pursuit especially trailing on the LOS. But got completely swallowed up way too often. No bull rush, no secondary moves. Even his spin move looked subpar. Griffith took some time to develop (granted he was a 4th rounder).

He's got a ton of work to do in the offseason. It'd be ideal if he could develop by year 3, the time AVG is a Free Agent. AVG got smoked covering RBs (think of that Gibbs TD reception) where Turner would be an upgrade.

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I understand Vikings fans being upset. I get it. It's a loss in the playoffs.

However, I can't get behind the black and white argument that one person lost this game. That's just emotional and childish.

Agree Brad. A lot has been posted, so some of my two cents is redundant. I'll share my thoughts that I texted a friend that is also/was pro-darnold. He also has a very dark view prognosis for the Vikings. Also posting with the caveat that I haven't done any All22 analysis for routes/etc AND I turned off the game at the end of the 3rd quarter (had early morning start and was not staying awake for that sh#% show).

I put 30% on Darnold, 30% on KOC, 40% on oline. Starting with KOC....the 4th down attempt. JJ on an out was the only option it seemed. Hated that play call. Also wanted him to grow stones and go for it on 4th and 2 instead of the field goal. I figured he was gun shy after the Lions game, but Campbell sure as hell would have gone for it. We were not beating the Rams with Field Goals. Their strip sack and TD on the 2nd and three? Yelling at the TV to check to a run. Get past the line of scrimmage on a blitz, you pick up a ton of yards. Our screen play is abysmal. At some point you gotta make defenses pay for blitzing. Had plenty of chances vs the Lions (Darnold missed them all). Transitioning to Darnold. He simply can’t anticipate. Missed Nailor on a big gainer, but more than accuracy, him waiting until Nailor cleared the LB to throw it??? Terrible. It's a big part of why he holds the ball so fing long. Throw when he's inaccurate and game over. I also was yelling at him to take the F off. One play, he had a clear lane to run, then danced to the right, back into the pocket, held the ball until getting smoked. I felt like there were other instances. Oline - need I say more?

If Darnold had just been average early vs Det the complexion of that game changes.

If Darnold had just been average early against the Rams, the Rams might have called off the dogs. Granted he did complete a few checkdowns.

Instead, we saw a kinda quirky but effective QB turn into some scared rookie. Certainly nobody you could EVER count on, especially given his past futility.

It was like George Plimpton II suddenly showed up on the field, but not for the Lions (or Rams).

Am I coming across as a SD apologist? I railed on him after the Detroit game and posted tons of evidence to support it. I put 100% of the Lions game on him and thought should have been up by 17 at half. Which, to your point, would have changed the game.

Again, my impression last night is without any research, but I didn't feel like it was 100% Darnold. Ineffective running early (either play calling and/or oline play). I also didn't like some of the play calls, which I couldn't say after the Lions game. Not every play call is going to work; sometimes the wrong play and often because of execution. I also thought the oline played worse than the Lions game (LA has an impressive and young defensive front).

It's just my opinion though.

No, not an apologist. 30% blame? Eh

SMH - always with the semantics or splitting hairs. I put a number to it without the benefit of more analysis (which is more than some ppl are willing to do). It could change but I'm good with it right now. You are more than welcome to post your number.

Literally trying to kid you on the percentage.

But since we're here I'll say no percentage needs to be assigned to a QB who chokes. He choked more against the Lions, and did absolutely nothing to overcome any obstacles against the Rams.

I love me some sarcasm. Difficult to interpret on the internet. I don't disagree with the choking, especially the Lions game. He was seeing ghosts and playing timid, on top of being inaccurate. I don't think he was timid vs the Rams, I think his limitations were compounded by the oline and play calling. And Jets underperforming.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I am still intrigued by trading JJ and resigning Darnold for 20-25M. If the giants or browns come calling and offer enough (Ward+draft picks) or (Lawrence+draft picks), we could team build and take some of the McCarthy uncertainty out of the equation. It'd have to be a herschel walker type deal, only takes one idiot GM , and the trading team would have to pick up enough salary to offset JJ's 9M in bonus that would come due. The team building advantage for McCarthy would be close to gone.

I'm going to enjoy the offseason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I am still intrigued by trading JJ and resigning Darnold for 20-25M. If the giants or browns come calling and offer enough (Ward+draft picks) or (Lawrence+draft picks), we could team build and take some of the McCarthy uncertainty out of the equation. It'd have to be a herschel walker type deal, only takes one idiot GM , and the trading team would have to pick up enough salary to offset JJ's 9M in bonus that would come due. The team building advantage for McCarthy would be close to gone.

I'm going to enjoy the offseason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I am still intrigued by trading JJ and resigning Darnold for 20-25M. If the giants or browns come calling and offer enough (Ward+draft picks) or (Lawrence+draft picks), we could team build and take some of the McCarthy uncertainty out of the equation. It'd have to be a herschel walker type deal, only takes one idiot GM , and the trading team would have to pick up enough salary to offset JJ's 9M in bonus that would come due. The team building advantage for McCarthy would be close to gone.

I'm going to enjoy the offseason.

You were doing well until this Thelma & Louise over the cliff post, actually the first sentence. Intrigued? After the last 9 days?

And nobody is giving up their star player PLUS Herschel Walker type picks PLUS salary.

Agree though there is 'McCarthy uncertainty'. As opposed Darnold Choke Job certainty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

McCarthy will elevate this team, even in his 1st year. He will win 10 games (tougher schedule), and will win at least one playoff game.

The blue chippers (Van Ginkel, Grenard and Cashman) are all signed for next year, and will be on their 2nd year with Flores (I think he is staying).

The OL and DL and 2ndary can all be significantly better with a good FA signing for each. Get one good RB in the draft, maybe a great CB.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I would keep RB Jones, Bynum (for the dances), Akers, DE Jones (he is steady, fits the system), and one of the CBs (Murphy or Griffin).

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: marty

I would keep RB Jones, Bynum (for the dances), Akers, DE Jones (he is steady, fits the system), and one of the CBs (Murphy or Griffin).

Aaron Jones depending on the salary. He's 30 yo, usually a big drop off at 30, but he has lower wear and tear for a RB. He'd be a great 1b to a stud 1a. If you keep Jones and draft a RB, you don't need Akers (we could always trade for him for the 3rd time). Griffin would have to close to vet minimum but be nice insurance for Blackmon. Pat Jones? He's DJ Wonnum all over again. I don't think we'd miss him, so it depends on the price. Probably keep Bynum too and resign Theo Jackson.

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

I am still intrigued by trading JJ and resigning Darnold for 20-25M. If the giants or browns come calling and offer enough (Ward+draft picks) or (Lawrence+draft picks), we could team build and take some of the McCarthy uncertainty out of the equation. It'd have to be a herschel walker type deal, only takes one idiot GM , and the trading team would have to pick up enough salary to offset JJ's 9M in bonus that would come due. The team building advantage for McCarthy would be close to gone.

I'm going to enjoy the offseason.

You were doing well until this Thelma & Louise over the cliff post, actually the first sentence. Intrigued? After the last 9 days?

And nobody is giving up their star player PLUS Herschel Walker type picks PLUS salary.

Agree though there is 'McCarthy uncertainty'. As opposed Darnold Choke Job certainty.

Love all the reaction. A lockdown corner (first round bust rate of about 60% if I remember right) for 15M per, plus draft picks? Or the best IDL in the game for 16M per plus draft picks? Still have enough cap to get a Will Fries and resign guys you want to. Both the offense and defense get a critical piece. And some draft capital where you could get a RB in the first or second round, and either corner or IDL in the first or second. I also disagree that Cleveland wouldn't do something like this, they have to shed salary and have no QB. McCarthy would be the highest rated QB in this draft. This deal they'd still get to keep their first round pick (which they could trade down with) while giving up their number 2. They wouldn't pay the McCarthy bonus money but it means they'd get him for dirt cheap cap-wise and would have to give more in draft capital. McCarthy's cap numbers are 960k, 1.1M, and 1.2M. I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns trade Myles too.

Darnold with a good oline, improved running game, better defense, and a full season in the system under the belt? At a discounted rate? Yeah I'm intrigued by that. It'd have to be huge offer, but if I'm Kwesi, I'm taking the call.

Sam Darnold was a bust until he wasn't. Goff choked in the playoffs under McVay, enough so they shipped his a** out of there. Not so much anymore with Detroit.

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ORIGINAL: beo

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I am still intrigued by trading JJ and resigning Darnold for 20-25M. If the giants or browns come calling and offer enough (Ward+draft picks) or (Lawrence+draft picks), we could team build and take some of the McCarthy uncertainty out of the equation. It'd have to be a herschel walker type deal, only takes one idiot GM , and the trading team would have to pick up enough salary to offset JJ's 9M in bonus that would come due. The team building advantage for McCarthy would be close to gone.

I'm going to enjoy the offseason.

You were doing well until this Thelma & Louise over the cliff post, actually the first sentence. Intrigued? After the last 9 days?

And nobody is giving up their star player PLUS Herschel Walker type picks PLUS salary.

Agree though there is 'McCarthy uncertainty'. As opposed Darnold Choke Job certainty.

Love all the reaction. A lockdown corner (first round bust rate of about 60% if I remember right) for 15M per, plus draft picks? Or the best IDL in the game for 16M per plus draft picks? Still have enough cap to get a Will Fries and resign guys you want to. Both the offense and defense get a critical piece. And some draft capital where you could get a RB in the first or second round, and either corner or IDL in the first or second. I also disagree that Cleveland wouldn't do something like this, they have to shed salary and have no QB. McCarthy would be the highest rated QB in this draft. This deal they'd still get to keep their first round pick (which they could trade down with) while giving up their number 2. They wouldn't pay the McCarthy bonus money but it means they'd get him for dirt cheap cap-wise and would have to give more in draft capital. McCarthy's cap numbers are 960k, 1.1M, and 1.2M. I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns trade Myles too.

Darnold with a good oline, improved running game, better defense, and a full season in the system under the belt? At a discounted rate? Yeah I'm intrigued by that. It'd have to be huge offer, but if I'm Kwesi, I'm taking the call.

Sam Darnold was a bust until he wasn't. Goff choked in the playoffs under McVay, enough so they shipped his a** out of there. Not so much anymore with Detroit.

"Darnold with a good oline, improved running game, better defense, and a full season in the system under the belt? At a discounted rate? Yeah I'm intrigued by that."

Darnold is a coach/franchise killer.
He is good enough to stack wins but we have a lot of tape showing his fatal weaknesses.
He is a slow processer.
He doesn't diagnose the defense pre snap.
Brady was a killer because he knew what was going to be open prior to the snap.
Darnold is reacting.
The best defenses can exploit that.
Unless you can build 90s cowboys line... I think that flaw shows up in the playoffs every time.

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ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

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ORIGINAL: beo

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

I am still intrigued by trading JJ and resigning Darnold for 20-25M. If the giants or browns come calling and offer enough (Ward+draft picks) or (Lawrence+draft picks), we could team build and take some of the McCarthy uncertainty out of the equation. It'd have to be a herschel walker type deal, only takes one idiot GM , and the trading team would have to pick up enough salary to offset JJ's 9M in bonus that would come due. The team building advantage for McCarthy would be close to gone.

I'm going to enjoy the offseason.

You were doing well until this Thelma & Louise over the cliff post, actually the first sentence. Intrigued? After the last 9 days?

And nobody is giving up their star player PLUS Herschel Walker type picks PLUS salary.

Agree though there is 'McCarthy uncertainty'. As opposed Darnold Choke Job certainty.

Love all the reaction. A lockdown corner (first round bust rate of about 60% if I remember right) for 15M per, plus draft picks? Or the best IDL in the game for 16M per plus draft picks? Still have enough cap to get a Will Fries and resign guys you want to. Both the offense and defense get a critical piece. And some draft capital where you could get a RB in the first or second round, and either corner or IDL in the first or second. I also disagree that Cleveland wouldn't do something like this, they have to shed salary and have no QB. McCarthy would be the highest rated QB in this draft. This deal they'd still get to keep their first round pick (which they could trade down with) while giving up their number 2. They wouldn't pay the McCarthy bonus money but it means they'd get him for dirt cheap cap-wise and would have to give more in draft capital. McCarthy's cap numbers are 960k, 1.1M, and 1.2M. I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns trade Myles too.

Darnold with a good oline, improved running game, better defense, and a full season in the system under the belt? At a discounted rate? Yeah I'm intrigued by that. It'd have to be huge offer, but if I'm Kwesi, I'm taking the call.

Sam Darnold was a bust until he wasn't. Goff choked in the playoffs under McVay, enough so they shipped his a** out of there. Not so much anymore with Detroit.

"Darnold with a good oline, improved running game, better defense, and a full season in the system under the belt? At a discounted rate? Yeah I'm intrigued by that."

Darnold is a coach/franchise killer.
He is good enough to stack wins but we have a lot of tape showing his fatal weaknesses.
He is a slow processer.
He doesn't diagnose the defense pre snap.
Brady was a killer because he knew what was going to be open prior to the snap.
Darnold is reacting.
The best defenses can exploit that.
Unless you can build 90s cowboys line... I think that flaw shows up in the playoffs every time.

Jared Goff made it to the Super Bowl with the Rams

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

I am still intrigued by trading JJ and resigning Darnold for 20-25M. If the giants or browns come calling and offer enough (Ward+draft picks) or (Lawrence+draft picks), we could team build and take some of the McCarthy uncertainty out of the equation. It'd have to be a herschel walker type deal, only takes one idiot GM , and the trading team would have to pick up enough salary to offset JJ's 9M in bonus that would come due. The team building advantage for McCarthy would be close to gone.

I'm going to enjoy the offseason.

You were doing well until this Thelma & Louise over the cliff post, actually the first sentence. Intrigued? After the last 9 days?

And nobody is giving up their star player PLUS Herschel Walker type picks PLUS salary.

Agree though there is 'McCarthy uncertainty'. As opposed Darnold Choke Job certainty.

Love all the reaction. A lockdown corner (first round bust rate of about 60% if I remember right) for 15M per, plus draft picks? Or the best IDL in the game for 16M per plus draft picks? Still have enough cap to get a Will Fries and resign guys you want to. Both the offense and defense get a critical piece. And some draft capital where you could get a RB in the first or second round, and either corner or IDL in the first or second. I also disagree that Cleveland wouldn't do something like this, they have to shed salary and have no QB. McCarthy would be the highest rated QB in this draft. This deal they'd still get to keep their first round pick (which they could trade down with) while giving up their number 2. They wouldn't pay the McCarthy bonus money but it means they'd get him for dirt cheap cap-wise and would have to give more in draft capital. McCarthy's cap numbers are 960k, 1.1M, and 1.2M. I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns trade Myles too.

Darnold with a good oline, improved running game, better defense, and a full season in the system under the belt? At a discounted rate? Yeah I'm intrigued by that. It'd have to be huge offer, but if I'm Kwesi, I'm taking the call.

Sam Darnold was a bust until he wasn't. Goff choked in the playoffs under McVay, enough so they shipped his a** out of there. Not so much anymore with Detroit.

"Darnold with a good oline, improved running game, better defense, and a full season in the system under the belt? At a discounted rate? Yeah I'm intrigued by that."

Darnold is a coach/franchise killer.
He is good enough to stack wins but we have a lot of tape showing his fatal weaknesses.
He is a slow processer.
He doesn't diagnose the defense pre snap.
Brady was a killer because he knew what was going to be open prior to the snap.
Darnold is reacting.
The best defenses can exploit that.
Unless you can build 90s cowboys line... I think that flaw shows up in the playoffs every time.

Jared Goff made it to the Super Bowl with the Rams