quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

From what I've read this draft is deep in DT and RB. Use 24 (if they don't trade back) for best DT available, grab RB with a later pick and use FA to focus on IOL and CB. If they choose wisely we should have a solid roster going in to the year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
dalton risner had a better pass blocking number than trey smith and scherff - and he had never played right guard in his life....

put risner back on the left side and sign tevon jenkins/will fries, and kelly at center - done...cut ingram and bradbury and we could fix the entire o-line with a reasonable cap hit....

imo: if we run back bradbury, kwesi is an absolute idiot....


overall, pass blocking, run blocking

risner
67, 76.2, 57.4...pff

trey smith
78.8, 70.6, 80.8

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Ooooffff. Disagree my man. RB is also a huge need IMO. Is it #1 or 2? Nope, but it's a pretty big one. The biggest is IOL and some of this is tied in but I was listening to a pod the other day. I am going by memory so don't quote this but I'm also not making numbers up to try and make a point. The stats were basically bottom 10 in YAC, before contact, RZ ect... they sucked overall.

So what's the solution? You're right. They "have" 3. Jones and Akers are FA's and they clearly don't trust/like Chandler (and even if they did, he's not an answer). If they bring back Jones at a decent price I wouldn't hate it but we need a true "guy".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Ooooffff. Disagree my man. RB is also a huge need IMO. Is it #1 or 2? Nope, but it's a pretty big one. The biggest is IOL and some of this is tied in but I was listening to a pod the other day. I am going by memory so don't quote this but I'm also not making numbers up to try and make a point. The stats were basically bottom 10 in YAC, before contact, RZ ect... they sucked overall.

So what's the solution? You're right. They "have" 3. Jones and Akers are FA's and they clearly don't trust/like Chandler (and even if they did, he's not an answer). If they bring back Jones at a decent price I wouldn't hate it but we need a true "guy".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Ooooffff. Disagree my man. RB is also a huge need IMO. Is it #1 or 2? Nope, but it's a pretty big one. The biggest is IOL and some of this is tied in but I was listening to a pod the other day. I am going by memory so don't quote this but I'm also not making numbers up to try and make a point. The stats were basically bottom 10 in YAC, before contact, RZ ect... they sucked overall.

So what's the solution? You're right. They "have" 3. Jones and Akers are FA's and they clearly don't trust/like Chandler (and even if they did, he's not an answer). If they bring back Jones at a decent price I wouldn't hate it but we need a true "guy".

there might be 5 total “ bell cow” type RB in the entire league, and yes the teams left in the Super Bowl hunt have some of those and they contribute..

But every team who makes a deep run for certian has a IOL and Tackles, who are at least f times better than our..

Yes that is hyperbole, but our OL gas sucked, for over a decade.

You can not just keep trotting out bad players and fix one hole then call it good.

Having 5 guys who start and play together for most of a season, is futile if they … overall.. suck so bad that you get bounced like rag dolls against a coherent team” with invested talent.

The playing life, of a good- great RB is 5-6 years and the cost goes up exponentially, after the rookie contract.

I don’t like it.

Chester Taylor, Leroy Hoard…

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett-requests-trade-browns-desire-to-win-complacent

With their Cap space -30M in 2025 (effective is -40M for signing draft picks and room during the season), as I posted earlier, Garrett is probably traded. Ward might be on the block too.

The goal of FA and the draft should be maximizing value. In FA there is value in guards compared to centers, and in the draft is appears to be RB and IDL. If value aligns with need in the draft for center, I'm all in. But drafting for need and ignoring value is how we got Bradbury in the first place. It's also why Trey Smith is not high on my list. For that 20M you could get Fries and Daniels. Signing Daniels is growing on me. 27yo, has played all three IOL positions at a high level. Affordable at 6M per (projected). Fries solidifies right side. Daniels could take over LG if needed or replace center if someone at LG steps up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett-requests-trade-browns-desire-to-win-complacent

With their Cap space -30M in 2025 (effective is -40M for signing draft picks and room during the season), as I posted earlier, Garrett is probably traded. Ward might be on the block too.

The goal of FA and the draft should be maximizing value. In FA there is value in guards compared to centers, and in the draft is appears to be RB and IDL. If value aligns with need in the draft for center, I'm all in. But drafting for need and ignoring value is how we got Bradbury in the first place. It's also why Trey Smith is not high on my list. For that 20M you could get Fries and Daniels. Signing Daniels is growing on me. 27yo, has played all three IOL positions at a high level. Affordable at 6M per (projected). Fries solidifies right side. Daniels could take over LG if needed or replace center if someone at LG steps up.

They have had more luck on Defense FA and drafting offense outside of IOL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett-requests-trade-browns-desire-to-win-complacent

With their Cap space -30M in 2025 (effective is -40M for signing draft picks and room during the season), as I posted earlier, Garrett is probably traded. Ward might be on the block too.

The goal of FA and the draft should be maximizing value. In FA there is value in guards compared to centers, and in the draft is appears to be RB and IDL. If value aligns with need in the draft for center, I'm all in. But drafting for need and ignoring value is how we got Bradbury in the first place. It's also why Trey Smith is not high on my list. For that 20M you could get Fries and Daniels. Signing Daniels is growing on me. 27yo, has played all three IOL positions at a high level. Affordable at 6M per (projected). Fries solidifies right side. Daniels could take over LG if needed or replace center if someone at LG steps up.

They have had more luck on Defense FA and drafting offense outside of IOL.

??

Out of three drafts, that's Addison and maybe Nailor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett-requests-trade-browns-desire-to-win-complacent

With their Cap space -30M in 2025 (effective is -40M for signing draft picks and room during the season), as I posted earlier, Garrett is probably traded. Ward might be on the block too.

The goal of FA and the draft should be maximizing value. In FA there is value in guards compared to centers, and in the draft is appears to be RB and IDL. If value aligns with need in the draft for center, I'm all in. But drafting for need and ignoring value is how we got Bradbury in the first place. It's also why Trey Smith is not high on my list. For that 20M you could get Fries and Daniels. Signing Daniels is growing on me. 27yo, has played all three IOL positions at a high level. Affordable at 6M per (projected). Fries solidifies right side. Daniels could take over LG if needed or replace center if someone at LG steps up.

They have had more luck on Defense FA and drafting offense outside of IOL.

??

Out of three drafts, that's Addison and maybe Nailor.

He traded most of the picks away for JJM and Turner. Plus he traded a 2nd and 4th for TJ.

Addison JJM and TJ in those three drafts weren’t that bad. 2022 was bad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

One thing is for sure. KAM better start figuring out the draft or none of it will matter. How different is this whole FA discussion if these guys were even "good" much less great.

Cine
Booth
Ingram

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

One thing is for sure. KAM better start figuring out the draft or none of it will matter. How different is this whole FA discussion if these guys were even "good" much less great.

Cine
Booth
Ingram

No kidding.

Injuries. Addison’s speeding and snoring issues. The tragic death of Khyree.

A lot has happened out of Kwesi’s control.

But he has not balanced that out with even decent drafting or good value moving around in the draft IMO. He’s like Spielman’s opposite, trying to maximize his higher picks instead of building volume.

I don’t have a problem with the concept at all but when you get down to 3-4 picks heading into a draft … it feels like undisciplined spending in the drafts before.

EDIT: again, just to clarify, I’m all for quality over quantity but we seem to burn through a lot of picks moving around.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett-requests-trade-browns-desire-to-win-complacent

With their Cap space -30M in 2025 (effective is -40M for signing draft picks and room during the season), as I posted earlier, Garrett is probably traded. Ward might be on the block too.

The goal of FA and the draft should be maximizing value. In FA there is value in guards compared to centers, and in the draft is appears to be RB and IDL. If value aligns with need in the draft for center, I'm all in. But drafting for need and ignoring value is how we got Bradbury in the first place. It's also why Trey Smith is not high on my list. For that 20M you could get Fries and Daniels. Signing Daniels is growing on me. 27yo, has played all three IOL positions at a high level. Affordable at 6M per (projected). Fries solidifies right side. Daniels could take over LG if needed or replace center if someone at LG steps up.

They have had more luck on Defense FA and drafting offense outside of IOL.

??

Out of three drafts, that's Addison and maybe Nailor.

He traded most of the picks away for JJM and Turner. Plus he traded a 2nd and 4th for TJ.

Addison JJM and TJ in those three drafts weren’t that bad. 2022 was bad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett-requests-trade-browns-desire-to-win-complacent

With their Cap space -30M in 2025 (effective is -40M for signing draft picks and room during the season), as I posted earlier, Garrett is probably traded. Ward might be on the block too.

The goal of FA and the draft should be maximizing value. In FA there is value in guards compared to centers, and in the draft is appears to be RB and IDL. If value aligns with need in the draft for center, I'm all in. But drafting for need and ignoring value is how we got Bradbury in the first place. It's also why Trey Smith is not high on my list. For that 20M you could get Fries and Daniels. Signing Daniels is growing on me. 27yo, has played all three IOL positions at a high level. Affordable at 6M per (projected). Fries solidifies right side. Daniels could take over LG if needed or replace center if someone at LG steps up.

They have had more luck on Defense FA and drafting offense outside of IOL.

??

Out of three drafts, that's Addison and maybe Nailor.

He traded most of the picks away for JJM and Turner. Plus he traded a 2nd and 4th for TJ.

Addison JJM and TJ in those three drafts weren’t that bad. 2022 was bad.

TJ was for a 2nd and a 3rd, with a 4th and a conditional pick in return. I did forget to include him though.

JJM is unknown so he can't be labeled under the umbrella of "more luck" outside of the IOL. Same with Rouse and Jurgens.

So Addison, Hock, and Nailor (who is pedestrian).


Maybe there are some valuable offensive backups we've had 'luck' with:

Vederian Lowe (traded for a 6th rounder) Muse (PS type, 3 yrs, 1 career catch), Chandler (3rd string RB), McBride (UFL's Memphis Showboats).


That's every non-IOL offensive player from those 3 drafts. Heck, add in bust Ingram and it's every offensive player.

There are a couple of ways one can interpret 'offensive'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett-requests-trade-browns-desire-to-win-complacent

With their Cap space -30M in 2025 (effective is -40M for signing draft picks and room during the season), as I posted earlier, Garrett is probably traded. Ward might be on the block too.

The goal of FA and the draft should be maximizing value. In FA there is value in guards compared to centers, and in the draft is appears to be RB and IDL. If value aligns with need in the draft for center, I'm all in. But drafting for need and ignoring value is how we got Bradbury in the first place. It's also why Trey Smith is not high on my list. For that 20M you could get Fries and Daniels. Signing Daniels is growing on me. 27yo, has played all three IOL positions at a high level. Affordable at 6M per (projected). Fries solidifies right side. Daniels could take over LG if needed or replace center if someone at LG steps up.

They have had more luck on Defense FA and drafting offense outside of IOL.

??

Out of three drafts, that's Addison and maybe Nailor.

He traded most of the picks away for JJM and Turner. Plus he traded a 2nd and 4th for TJ.

Addison JJM and TJ in those three drafts weren’t that bad. 2022 was bad.

TJ was for a 2nd and a 3rd, with a 4th and a conditional pick in return. I did forget to include him though.

JJM is unknown so he can't be labeled under the umbrella of "more luck" outside of the IOL. Same with Rouse and Jurgens.

So Addison, Hock, and Nailor (who is pedestrian).


Maybe there are some valuable offensive backups we've had 'luck' with:

Vederian Lowe (traded for a 6th rounder) Muse (PS type, 3 yrs, 1 career catch), Chandler (3rd string RB), McBride (UFL's Memphis Showboats).


That's every non-IOL offensive player from those 3 drafts. Heck, add in bust Ingram and it's every offensive player.

There are a couple of ways one can interpret 'offensive'.

TJ has more to do with veteran acquisition than draft prowess ... although we acquired him with draft picks.

Its like he loves to spray draft resources in every direction except holding fast and taking best prospect available.

I'm not sure how a team can sustain success / manage the cap for any length of time without marginal draft success ... but if Kwesi is simply better at rolling veterans on short contracts through the roster, maybe that's just the way to go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I suppose if we are searching for Kwesi draft positives, we should add UDFAs even though, like TJ, they fall under draft related talent acquisition - not drafting (with a recruitment asterisk). So there's that.

I don't have a lot of optimism for this year's meager draft ... but there is so much change that is probably going to happen before the draft, hopefully it will seem like gravy for the goose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.minnesotasportsfan.com/minnesota-vikings/minnesota-vikings-news/vikings-are-really-happy-with-jj-mccarthy-according-to-new-report/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.minnesotasportsfan.com/minnesota-vikings/minnesota-vikings-news/vikings-are-really-happy-with-jj-mccarthy-according-to-new-report/

"...and now he’s not only up and running, but he’s also throwing the ball again."